Taking the MCAT without...

[mc2004]

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would i be able to take the mcat by just completing first year chem and bio, and an advanced grade 12 course in physics? i would not be taking organic chemistry. i would also be taking a half course in physiology. but that is it. i am also planning on also using the entire examkrackers collection and taking a princeton review course or kaplan review course. do you think i would be able to get over 32 by doing this? i believe i have sufficient experience/knowledge to do well on the written and verbal sections. 😕

 

[MoosePilot]

would i be able to take the mcat by just completing first year chem and bio, and an advanced grade 12 course in physics? i would not be taking organic chemistry. i would also be taking a half course in physiology. but that is it. i am also planning on also using the entire examkrackers collection and taking a princeton review course or kaplan review course. do you think i would be able to get over 32 by doing this? i believe i have sufficient experience/knowledge to do well on the written and verbal sections. 😕

These questions are tough to answer.

My response would be that you probably could, but there's very little reason why you'd want to risk it. Take the pre-reqs and the prep and be really prepared.

Another question is how good a natural test taker are you? A high score is usually a result of good natural test taking ability and preparation.

That said, I think if you bust your butt doing prep you could do it. I did something similar, using TPR to compensate for 8 years out of school and away from science, but I wouldn't recommend it unless you don't have a choice.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

If you reviewed the materials adequately, I'd speculate that you could do well. However, this is far from the ideal situation of having finished the prereqs. Why the rush? You could score higher on the MCAT and possibly matriculate to higher ranked schools if you wait a while and are fully prepared.

 

[willthatsall]

Yeah, if you were naturally good at verbal and pick up the other stuff pretty well I think you could do it. But you would have to be exceptional in bio and be able to pick up some organic on your own. The physics probably wouldn't be too far past what you had in highschool if you just brush up you should be ok. But remember that 32 is probably right around 90th percentile and you would be at a disadvantage compared to other test takers. So don't think it is going to be a walk in the park. I wouldn't try it unless you have a good reason.

 

[mc2004]

the reason i am doing this is because i am not a very strong science student. i don't want to take organic chem or physics in university, because i know i would not get a high mark. it would only bring down my gpa. i also don't have the time to take such courses. it is going to be hard enough for me to take intro. to chem in my second year of university. so i want to try to get at least a 32 by just reviewing EK and taking the princeton review course.

 

[MoosePilot]

the reason i am doing this is because i am not a very strong science student. i don't want to take organic chem or physics in university, because i know i would not get a high mark. it would only bring down my gpa. i also don't have the time to take such courses. it is going to be hard enough for me to take intro. to chem in my second year of university. so i want to try to get at least a 32 by just reviewing EK and taking the princeton review course.

Ok, so you're not good at science, so you want to take a science test without adequate preparation and score in the top 10%? Sounds like a bad plan to me.

What med school are you planning on applying to that doesn't require organic chem as a prerequisite for admission?

Do more research. This is a bad idea and you have bad reasons.

 

[mc2004]

i will be applying in canada. i am good at science, but it takes me more than others to understand the basic concepts. i heard of others taking the mcat with only biology and taking TPR and scoring really high. i am a very good natural test taker. so i hope i will do well.

 

[willthatsall]

Dumbest thread ever.

 

[brs23]

I would say wait...mainly because the mcat tests such a huge volume of information, there is no way you can absorb all of it by simply cramming or taking a review course. After, that's what those courses are "review"...they're really not THAT helpful unless you've been exposed to the material before.

 

[mc2004]

thank you all for your advice. but, i've decided to take the mcat without taking organic chemistry. i don't think it is integral to have such a course. i think i can learn it on my own, and EK and TPR will cover this material anyway. 🙂

 

[dhoonlee]

.

 

[MoosePilot]

thank you all for your advice. but, i've decided to take the mcat without taking organic chemistry. i don't think it is integral to have such a course. i think i can learn it on my own, and EK and TPR will cover this material anyway. 🙂

If you had your mind made up before you got here... why ask?

 

[mc2004]

i wanted to see if any of you would be able to convince me otherwise, but you were unable to do so. a lot of people take the mcat without organic chemistry, even without taking or reading any review material, and they are able to score very high. i see no reason why organic chemistry is so important.

 

[MoosePilot]

i wanted to see if any of you would be able to convince me otherwise, but you were unable to do so. a lot of people take the mcat without organic chemistry, even without taking or reading any review material, and they are able to score very high. i see no reason why organic chemistry is so important.

What is your source for your statements about organic chemistry and performance?

Granted, it's not emphasized, but if you've never had the class at all, you're likely to just plain miss anything with organic. Prep should help, but not as much as actually having the class plus prep.

In AAMC test 6R the scale says to get a 10 you must answer 57 out of 77 right. So you can miss 20. If roughly one third of the test is organic, there will be about 25 organic questions. So you can't miss all the organic questions and get a 10, even if you get all the biology questions right with your introductory courses as your only background.

Heck, I don't care what you do. You may help the curve for my buddies, but you did ask.

 

[DualSuperLead]

You'll get a 25, tops.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

So in Canada they don't require physics or ochem?

 

[mc2004]

i took university level physics in high school AND will also be taking chem. just not OCHEM. besides, i plan on buying an organic chemistry textbook and reviewing it. i'm sure that EK and the princeton review will also go over OCHEM.

 

[MoosePilot]

i took university level physics in high school AND will also be taking chem. just not OCHEM. besides, i plan on buying an organic chemistry textbook and reviewing it. i'm sure that EK and the princeton review will also go over OCHEM.

Organic chemistry questions are in the biology section. General chemistry questions are in the physical sciences section. Your general chem classes aren't likely to help you much on the organic chem questions that *will* be in the biology section.

You say you're an awesome test taker. What are some standardized test scores from your past?

TPR does go over OCHEM, but like we've said it's The Princeton Review, not The Princeton "We'll teach it to you the first time". The pace is definitely for the students who are extremely familiar. My class was impatient with my pace in OCHEM because I took it 8 years ago and I knew it well enough to pull off a 12 in the bio section.

 

[willthatsall]

I think the point everyone is trying to make is, and listen carefully: It will be hard to learn Ochem on your own. You must have Ochem before you attend med school (as far as I know), no matter if you do well on the MCAT or not. Your reason for not taking Ochem (I'm not a strong science student) is *****ic. This is, after all, a test to get into med school (hello, science). If you aren't a troll, you are a *****. If you are a troll, go away. If you are planning on going to a med school that doesn't require Ochem, then I take back some of what I said, but you are a ***** for not mentioning that before.

 

[mc2004]

my gpa is 4.0. with regard to standardized tests - i am from canada, so i never took the sats or anything to that nature. but i did score 170 on the lsat.

p.s. i plan on applying to several med. schools that don't even require OChem in the first place. i apologize for not mentioning this before wellthatsall. but i didn't ask about med. school, just about the mcat.

 

[willthatsall]

my gpa is 4.0. with regard to standardized tests - i am from canada, so i never took the sats or anything to that nature. but i did score 170 on the lsat.

p.s. i plan on applying to several med. schools that don't even require OChem in the first place.

Then there you go, start learning Ochem on your own and then take the MCAT. As long as you can figure out how to get basic Ochem questions (basic reaction mechanisms, naming, perhaps memorize spectroscopy stuff) you should be able to get a decent portion of the Ochem questions correct anyway. I'm trying to figure out why a school would require the MCAT (Ochem needed to do well) but not require Ochem as a prereq. Not that the MCAT is much like the LSAT, but if you can get a 170 on that then you should be able to at least get a 12 on VR as an absolute minimum.

 

[medic170]

would i be able to take the mcat by just completing first year chem and bio, and an advanced grade 12 course in physics? i would not be taking organic chemistry. i would also be taking a half course in physiology. but that is it. i am also planning on also using the entire examkrackers collection and taking a princeton review course or kaplan review course. do you think i would be able to get over 32 by doing this? i believe i have sufficient experience/knowledge to do well on the written and verbal sections. 😕

No

 

[DualSuperLead]

Please shut up and go away.

 

[medic170]

Please shut up and go away.

Why, what did I do, I just gave my opinion?

 

[willthatsall]

Why, what did I do, I just gave my opinion?

Pretty sure he was talking to the OP.

 

[oudoc08]

i wanted to see if any of you would be able to convince me otherwise, but you were unable to do so. a lot of people take the mcat without organic chemistry, even without taking or reading any review material, and they are able to score very high. i see no reason why organic chemistry is so important.

Umm. No they haven't. I know of no one and have never heard of anyone who has taken the MCAT w/o at least Org. I. Organic chem is simply impossible to learn out of a review book. And to think that you can statistcally score enough correct answers by chance in order to make a 10 or 11 on the biology portion shows that you are not good at more than just sciences.

You sound like someone who wants a shortcut through life. Let me let you in on a little secret. You can't shortcut med school or residency. And if you're afraid that you can't make decent marks in undergrad science classes, how in the world do you think you're going to survive basic sciences in MSI/MSII?

My personal op? You're either an argumentative undergrad freshman who hasn't had the realism of life hammered into your dense skull, or a troll.

Take the classes. If you don't do well, perhaps you're best suited for another field. If you do, then you will have paid your dues like everyone else, and will then be prepared for the MCAT.

Or you can defend your fragile platform, sit for the MCAT and see how many schools you get into with a 16. Even if you made a 12 on VR as a previous poster suggested, your almost-assuredly drastically low BS and PS will lopside your composite score. If you have done your homework, you know how horrible this looks to a adcom (i.e. - most would agree that a 27 (9,9,9) would far surpass a 29 (14,10,5) any day of the week.

BTW, I wasn't aware there were any medical schools that didn't require organic, as a understanding of organic chemistry is absolutely prerequisite for biochemistry. Would you care to provide the names of these schools for our review?

 

[willthatsall]

^ Haha, BOO YAH

 

[MoosePilot]

Rock on OUDOC! Boomer Sooner!

 

[mc2004]

i know of at least 5 people who took the mcat without ochem. but i wanted to see what others thought. there are several schools all throughout canada that don't require ochem, or chem or even biology for that matter. go look them up yourself. also, i am not a freshman anymore. and statistically, i would have a better chance getting into med. school by reviewing ochem myself than having my GPA destroyed by taking such a course. but as of now, i don't need anymore advice. i will study ochem by myself.

 

[willthatsall]

there are several schools all throughout canada that don't require ochem, or chem or even biology for that matter.

Can anyone substantiate this rumor? And these places are accredited? Basically you can get into med school without having any science courses?

 

[MoosePilot]

i know of at least 5 people who took the mcat without ochem. but i wanted to see what others thought. there are several schools all throughout canada that don't require ochem, or chem or even biology for that matter. go look them up yourself. also, i am not a freshman anymore. and statistically, i would have a better chance getting into med. school by reviewing ochem myself than having my GPA destroyed by taking such a course. but as of now, i don't need anymore advice. i will study ochem by myself.

Oh, you need lots of advice, you just don't know it 🙂

Like everyone has said, if your GPA will be destroyed by OCHEM, then how will you do in biochem in med school? Your reference to statistics - how will the school look at you bombing the MCAT when it's the only way they have to judge your science ability, since you haven't had many science courses?

There may also be a difference between the schools not requiring OCHEM on paper and actually admitting students with such a poor preparation in the sciences.

 

[liverotcod]

I would suggest that if you don't want any more advice, stop reading the thread. FWIW, if I were choosing students for my med school (which, admittedly, I am not), I would want a student that excelled in organic chemistry over one who chose not to take it simply because it wasn't required. This is because med school courses are similar in focus, style and intensity to organic chemistry. What is your GPA currently?

 

[mc2004]

not only that, but there are schools that require the mcat but don't require organic chem. so it must be assumed that people can do well on the mcat without taking ochem - that ochem can be studied on one's own time.

and i won't bomb the mcat. even if i never opened up an ochem textbook, i'm sure that i could get at least an 8 or 9 in the biological section. but i want a 10 or 11, so i assume that by extensively reviewing an ochem textbook, by reviewing examkrackers and by taking the princeton review, that i can achieve a score of 10 or 11, as others have even stated in this thread.

p.s. i already stated. my gpa is 4.0

 

[MoosePilot]

not only that, but there are schools that require the mcat but don't require organic chem. so it must be assumed that people can do well on the mcat without taking ochem - that ochem can be studied on one's own time.

p.s. i already stated. my gpa is 4.0

Must be assumed, huh?

Just like AAMC specifically states commercial prep is irrelevant to success on the MCAT 🙂

Just because something is possible within the rules doesn't mean it's wise. When the school was writing those requirements, they didn't write them as a message to you that you could skip ochem and still perform well on the MCAT.

You're decided on your path. Take the MCAT and then come post your score. When are you taking it, I can't wait to hear the outcome

 

[mc2004]

"You're decided on your path. Take the MCAT and then come post your score. When are you taking it, I can't wait to hear the outcome "

🙁

 

[silkworm]

Can anyone substantiate this rumor? And these places are accredited? Basically you can get into med school without having any science courses?

Ah, a excuse to procrastinate . . . . .

According to the official AAMC book, out of 16 accredited Canadian schools, at least 3 doesn't require Organic Chem, 4 doesn't required G Chem, 5 doesn't require physics, and get this . . . . . 2 doesn't require biology!

For example, Universty of Manitoba requires only Biochemistry and English, University of Newfoundland only required two courses in English, and McMasters claim to have no course prerequisites.

Of course, these are baseline requirements. People probably should contact the med school and ask them what they recommend you to take in undergrad years. Since medical education is heavily science oriented, I'd imagine the adcomms would look more favorably on applicants that have a decent science background.

But I really don't know. This system is strange to me, in some ways it has good points, as it seems a lot more likely to accept people from other walks of life then the average college premed. Can anyone well-versed in Canadian medical schools shed some light?

 

[liverotcod]

To get a baseline, you might want to take the (free) online practice MCAT 3R to see how you do. For the most realistic result, use the timed option and take it all in one sitting. I took that one without any study (only two months into physics and organic chemistry) and got 12-12-12 for a 36. My April MCAT was 13-13-13 for 30, so I improved only a little despite finishing all my coursework, taking several more practice tests, and studying quite a bit on my weaker areas. Your mileage may vary, obviously, but I should think that taking 3R would tell you what you need to know.

 

[MoosePilot]

My April MCAT was 13-13-13 for 30...

I think your math is a little off, liver 🙂

Good suggestion, though 👍

 

[mc2004]

ok, i will take it tomorrow or wednesday and let you all know how i do. so, what is the url for this website?

 

[liverotcod]

I think your math is a little off, liver 🙂

Good suggestion, though 👍

Good Lord, I'm sure glad they don't have a Computation section on the MCAT! (Do I have to take 3rd grade math to prepare for that? No wait, never mind, I've already made my decision.)

Maybe it was just false modesty that led to that mistake.

 

[liverotcod]

ok, i will take it tomorrow or wednesday and let you all know how i do. so, what is the url for this website?

http://www.e-mcat.com/mcat2/login.asp

One way or the other, this really will give you a good feel for where you're at right now. Best wishes.

 

[medic170]

not only that, but there are schools that require the mcat but don't require organic chem. so it must be assumed that people can do well on the mcat without taking ochem - that ochem can be studied on one's own time.

and i won't bomb the mcat. even if i never opened up an ochem textbook, i'm sure that i could get at least an 8 or 9 in the biological section. but i want a 10 or 11, so i assume that by extensively reviewing an ochem textbook, by reviewing examkrackers and by taking the princeton review, that i can achieve a score of 10 or 11, as others have even stated in this thread.

p.s. i already stated. my gpa is 4.0

I say go take it. That way, you can help bring down the curve for all those people who are working hard and not cutting corners.

 

[medic170]

Can anyone substantiate this rumor? And these places are accredited? Basically you can get into med school without having any science courses?

Sounds like a typical Canadian policy to me

 

[HollyJ]

I teach ochem (among other things) for TPR, and I have NEVER seen anyone do well in bioscience without having taken at least a semester of ochem.

Seriously, why are you so scared of this class?

 

[mc2004]

when i was in grade 11 and 12, i had this really bad teacher that convinced me i was bad in chemistry 🙁 ever since, i have been afraid to take chemistry courses. he always said that i would do awful in ochem if i ever took it. 🙁

 

[mc2004]

i noticed someone said that mcat prep courses don't have a significant effect on the mcat score. from this, one can only deduce that the mcat is similiar in style to an IQ test. hence, the higher the IQ, the higher one is able to score on the mcat - providing some knowledge about the basic sciences is attained. so, if i know absolutely nothing about ochem, and i read examcrackers or sign-up for the princeton review, it would only seem likely that i would be able to attain a higher score on the mcat - because examkrackers and the princeton review would have to teach me something about ochem that i didn't know before i started the course or read the book. 🙂

 

[MoosePilot]

i noticed someone said that mcat prep courses don't have a significant effect on the mcat score. from this, one can only deduce that the mcat is similiar in style to an IQ test. hence, the higher the IQ, the higher one is able to score on the mcat - providing some knowledge about the basic sciences is attained. so, if i know absolutely nothing about ochem, and i read examcrackers or sign-up for the princeton review, it would only seem likely that i would be able to attain a higher score on the mcat - because examkrackers and the princeton review would have to teach me something about ochem that i didn't know before i started the course or read the book. 🙂

Use the quote feature, it will help us keep track of who you're quoting. I think you're referring to what I said in this thread, "Just like AAMC specifically states commercial prep is irrelevant to success on the MCAT 🙂 ". I was making fun of AAMC for saying that, because I believe it's BS.

The MCAT is a combination of what you know and how good a tester you are. You could be an awesome tester and still bomb without the needed info.

 

[silkworm]

i noticed someone said that mcat prep courses don't have a significant effect on the mcat score. from this, one can only deduce that the mcat is similiar in style to an IQ test. hence, the higher the IQ, the higher one is able to score on the mcat - providing some knowledge about the basic sciences is attained. so, if i know absolutely nothing about ochem, and i read examcrackers or sign-up for the princeton review, it would only seem likely that i would be able to attain a higher score on the mcat - because examkrackers and the princeton review would have to teach me something about ochem that i didn't know before i started the course or read the book. 🙂

MC2004, here are my advices. Though I am not a great expert in med school admissions, I believe they are logical.

I recommend you to take the OChem before you take MCAT for several reasons.

1. You say you are afraid of OChem, but plan to master it by yourself. This doesn't strike me as promising. Princeton Review doesn't teach the stuff, but review them.

2. Granted, on the MCAT OChem usually is weighted less than biology. But on test day, there will be many different forms. If you are randomly assigned to a form with a big emphasis of OChem, you will be in a severe disadvantage.

3. The adcomms will be taking a close look at your academic record, if they see you have avoided the difficult science classes usually taken by other premeds, what impression are you giving them? When challenged by this in interviews, you need to give them a better reason than you are afraid of it.

4. Your said some of your friends don't take OChem but are applying to medical school. Despite what the med schools say on their brochure, I think it's much more useful to find out what are the actual chances of getting accepted without taking such difficult classes. This is best done by contacting medical schools and ask their opinion. I know you can find one or two student who did get in without OChem, but that only means it's possible, doesn't mean it's probable.

I hope this helps.

 

[HollyJ]

when i was in grade 11 and 12, i had this really bad teacher that convinced me i was bad in chemistry 🙁 ever since, i have been afraid to take chemistry courses. he always said that i would do awful in ochem if i ever took it. 🙁

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but get over it or go into the business program.

i noticed someone said that mcat prep courses don't have a significant effect on the mcat score. from this, one can only deduce that the mcat is similiar in style to an IQ test. hence, the higher the IQ, the higher one is able to score on the mcat - providing some knowledge about the basic sciences is attained. so, if i know absolutely nothing about ochem, and i read examcrackers or sign-up for the princeton review, it would only seem likely that i would be able to attain a higher score on the mcat - because examkrackers and the princeton review would have to teach me something about ochem that i didn't know before i started the course or read the book.

It's much less like an IQ test than most other standardized tests. It's a content-based test, although good test-taking and reading skills really help.

If you haven't taken the classes, a review course will teach you next to nothing about organic chemistry. It's too fast paced and too review-oriented to do you much good at all. Your teacher will not be overly thrilled, either; we're happy to help people as much as we can, but we're not paid nearly enough to teach people this stuff for the first time.

 

[mc2004]

but if i read an ochem textbook and examkrackers, then took the course, you wouldn't be teaching me anything for the first time. i can learn it by myself.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but get over it or go into the business program.




It's much less like an IQ test than most other standardized tests. It's a content-based test, although good test-taking and reading skills really help.

If you haven't taken the classes, a review course will teach you next to nothing about organic chemistry. It's too fast paced and too review-oriented to do you much good at all. Your teacher will not be overly thrilled, either; we're happy to help people as much as we can, but we're not paid nearly enough to teach people this stuff for the first time.