Tales from the job search

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pathstudent said:
Good. I am glad a lot of your old partners are broke. Serves em right for hosing legions of future pathologists. Serves em right if they are now working part-time for LADoc00 for 25 cents on the dollar! Some might call it fair retribution. Some might call it divine intervention!
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I call/called it poor timing.
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lipomas said:
So, that being said, you have no concern about mentoring younger pathologists or sticking up for the younger generation? Or does your advocacy consist of complaining about it but yet continuing to stick it to them just because you can make a couple extra hundred thousand a year off of their labors? Why is what you are advocating any different from pod labs?

I tend to subscribe to a bit of a different model. While I agree with your description of the model of many practices, it doesn't have to be that way. You can have a very stable, profitable group without taking advantage of the young or inexperienced, particularly if they show promise. So I wouldn't kiss the dream goodbye at all, but I would look out for practices that behave with this attitude. If you are lucky they will be honest like LADoc is apparently being. But many are not honest.
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I wish it was different my lipomatous (atypical lipomatous tumor??) friend. We are navigating a landscape that is a mix of Book of Eli meets The Road....

I definitely wont deceive anyone and I also wont tell some poor sap with 200K+ in gubberment loans running that the "Promised Land" awaits. It doesnt await, aside from a handful of very lucky chaps like myself.

I wish I had better news to report but I dont.

I will say I have broke more than my fair share of "Greedy Old Timers" and sent them either into retirement or living off locums gigs in backwater rural outposts...some people who know my identity on this site can attest to that. But the system is completely rigged against us and in all honesty I basically gave up fighting around a year ago. These days its limited to bloody local insurgency, smokey backroom deals and a daily battle to keep what I already have won.
 
It would be a great world if partnership jobs were everywhere. If you got partnership after a couple years - in my experience any group that had such a deal did not have much to be partner in except a hospital contract.

The fact that medicine allows people an equity stake in an established business in almost any period of time is remarkable. Most other professionals have no concept of this. It is like starting your own business but you have insurance, a deceit salary and coverage - so it is NOTHING like starting your own business.

The fact that LAdocs attitude is not everywhere in medicine and pathology is the amazing part. Remind me not to apply for a job with him. Besides at the starting salary for most crappy jobs - you are still rich to Barack!
 
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mikesheree said:
I call/called it poor timing.
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And I call it divine intervention. It is payback for the greedy sins of your partners. They had a great life earning 600k. But it wasn't enough. So they sold their practice so that all future pathologists would be working twice as hard for half as much. I'll see those fers in one of those hell circles from dantes poem. And I know which circle that will be. The 9th the one full of traitors like that pinche judas who fed over Jesus.
 
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LADoc00 said:
Combined with the decreasing reimbursement and the fact veterans can sign out huge caseloads in very short time periods (I signed out an entire medical center's load of surgicals by 8:45am...8:45am SOLO)
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I am trying to decide whose speed is more impressive...

yours

or your histologist...

:smuggrin:
I mean you have all your cases before 8:45 am? Wow!
 
djmd said:
I am trying to decide whose speed is more impressive...

yours

or your histologist...

:smuggrin:
I mean you have all your cases before 8:45 am? Wow!
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I have all my cases out with paperwork/gross dictation by 7am. Sometimes by 6am.

That day I began at 7am sharp. With NO distractions (ie frozens, phone calls or meltdowns), hour 45 min is enough time for me to read and dictate a light to medium load at ~250 bed hospital with ease (1-2 coffee breaks?).

For reference, there are 750 beds at Brigham and Womens in Boston, 600 beds at Stanford, ~375 at UC San Diego Med Center.

Although the scaling up doesnt work this way at tertiary care centers..3xLADOCs would easily be able to SO all of Stanford before (excluding say cytology and consults) and be on the legendary Stanford Golf Course by 11am, perhaps dinner in SF at the Slanted Door by 5pm.
4 man crew, 1 guy always off (75% time or about 20 hours/week of actual work plus call/frozens)

I am not the master of this..there are few groups in California that get to work at 6:30am sharp everyday, sign out by 8-9am and have only 1 guy there to do frozen (often just by pager), while the rest enjoy a day at the beach/golfing/hiking etc.
 
LADoc00 said:
I have all my cases out with paperwork/gross dictation by 7am. Sometimes by 6am.

That day I began at 7am sharp. With NO distractions (ie frozens, phone calls or meltdowns), hour 45 min is enough time for me to read and dictate a light to medium load at ~250 bed hospital with ease (1-2 coffee breaks?).
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Now I envy the fact that you got nearly 2 hours without distractions...
:D

But thanks for the insight...
 
LADoc00 said:
..3xLADOCs would easily be able to SO all of Stanford before (excluding say cytology and consults) and be on the legendary Stanford Golf Course by 11am, perhaps dinner in SF at the Slanted Door by 5pm.
4 man crew, 1 guy always off (75% time or about 20 hours/week of actual work plus call/frozens)
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So it seems that an "LADOC" is now a unit of power/work potential, much like an "FTE"? ;)

On a side note, when applying for a private job, is there any good way to discern which groups are deceptively promising a partnership track but plan to dump you in 3 years or so? for that matter, what kinds of questions are good to ask on the interviews. I am sure there have been posts on this before, but I wondered what your take on this is.
 
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I knew of one group in my general geographic location that had that reputation. I think the only way you can know is thru RELIABLE word-of-mouth. You can assume that such group(s) will lie to you in any communication. That is why, generally, the best jobs are obtained thru personal contacts.
 
ahhh this thread scares me.

is pathology really that bad.
 
pbp4 said:
It is like starting your own business but you have insurance, a deceit salary and coverage - so it is NOTHING like starting your own business.
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Freudian slip?
 
Don't really post much but have been following the forum for several years. I just wanted to give everyone my perspective as a recently graduated resident at a mid-tier academic residency.
I finished AP/CP last July and decided not to do a fellowship. I had several good job offers but most came within the last six months or so of residency and I was freaking out a bit. I accepted a job in a city that is considered to be very desirable to live in (and actually took a bit of a pay-cut to stay here) instead of moving to one of the more rural jobs that were available.
I am quite happy with the current salary/situation and the job promises partnership after 3/4 years with regular, set increases per year that are more than reasonable.
It probably was more stressful and I had fewer options/job offers than some of my classmates in primary care but I was able to find a good job (with multiple other offers) with a higher starting salary and more upside.
I have no regrets about going into pathology...it's what I enjoy and there were no real problems with finding a good job.
There's a lot of doom and gloom on this forum but the reality for me wasn't nearly as dismal as some would have you believe.
I would still support reducing residency programs to create a greater demand and a higher quality resident.
 
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There is a distinct difference in posts by "the new entrants" vs "those in practice for a couple of years"

I believe this relate to "increased business sense" among those practicing for a few years.

My advice, broaden your understanding of business and do not be content with "I got a job" strive for "I got the best job possible and it is continuously improving"

I do not have the time to teach everyone here the "business of medicine", but I implore you to do so on your own.

Once you acquire even the basic "business sense" you will understand why everyone with any sense abhors the pathology job market. Or you could continue to be a pawn. Your choice.

Understanding simple concepts of business will enable you to gain insight into why anyone with a very basic understanding of business strategy hates the pathology job market.

I could care less about your job situation, but my understanding that when some pathologist takes a less than optimal position effects me, makes me care.

There are so many examples of how a bad pathology market is effecting everyone e.g. other specialities exploiting us to gain revenue for themselves, dwindling partnership tracks, increase in salaried positions etc. etc. that one has to be a village idiot not to realize that we are facing a "crisis situation" while our cluless organizations are concentrating on bull**** like "transformation". Let us first concentrate on creating a "good present business envoirnment" and then start looking into "improving the future".
 
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raider said:
There are so many examples of how a bad pathology market is effecting everyone e.g. other specialities exploiting us to gain revenue for themselves, dwindling partnership tracks, increase in salaried positions etc. etc. that one has to be a village idiot not to realize that we are facing a "crisis situation" while our cluless organizations are concentrating on bull**** like "transformation". Let us first concentrate on creating a "good present business envoirnment" and then start looking into "improving the future".
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I agree on this. CAP seems to think that "transforming" will take care of these things, but it will not. It may not be as tough to find *a* job as many here say and I don't think many (if any) board certified pathologists are going unemployed, but the quality of jobs available is an issue.
 
So if you are a new graduate and have a choice between a prestigious academic job versus a private job WITH an opportunity for partnership, you should jump on the private job? Decisions, decisions!

mikesheree said:
Been there, done that, do it now and agree with you 100%.
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LADoc00 said:
Hrm..

Well I can say as I guy who runs a few businesses...there is basically no reason ever to hire a new pathologist as partner-track. Staff patholgists, even good ones, are so utterly replaceable it makes no business sense whatsoever to make them equity partners.

For residents and fellows, kiss that dream goodbye.

The current model is one of: guy(s) start a group, get contracts and hire PT pathologists to staff locations for frozen coverage etc. Then the initial group eventually leaves and sells practice to corporation A, perhaps retaining medical directorship of some of the hospitals for an income stream.

This simply is not going to change. There are now just way too many pathologists (who are good) looking for stable work and willing to take anything. Combined with the decreasing reimbursement and the fact veterans can sign out huge caseloads in very short time periods (I signed out an entire medical center's load of surgicals by 8:45am...8:45am SOLO), this will not change in the coming decades.

Sorry.
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raider said:
There is a distinct difference in posts by "the new entrants" vs "those in practice for a couple of years"

I believe this relate to "increased business sense" among those practicing for a few years.
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Yep yep.

I was that "dude" who claimed the job market was awesome because I came out of fellowship with multiple...many actually job offers in ultra desirable locations.

What I realized about 6 months into my 1st job (and even then it didnt sink into for about a year...) was that I literally had no clue what an "awesome job" was or what realistically my chances of partnership were.

There is light bulb that goes on several months after you get that first job working for someone else when you realize the situation isnt so..."awesome" as you first thought.
 
raider said:
There is a distinct difference in posts by "the new entrants" vs "those in practice for a couple of years"
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True. The new entrants have typically experienced years of people screaming that there are no jobs in pathology, and have therefore lowered their expectations commensurately.
 
Pathologee said:
So if you are a new graduate and have a choice between a prestigious academic job versus a private job WITH an opportunity for partnership, you should jump on the private job? Decisions, decisions!
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That's pretty much where I am too. A difficult decision, but certainly a good situation to be in.
 
OK, well, I am out of training a couple of years, still in my first job, and I am very happy. I guess I must be delusional, right?

You guys tend to categorize everything into all or nothing opinions on this site. Either the job market sucks or it's great. It's neither. It's ok. It varies by region. You might find a job you love right off the bat or you might not. You have to educate yourself as to what makes a good job and do your research. It doesn't "suck" in the sense that most job markets suck right now, because there really aren't lots of unemployed people.

The other thing I should mention is that what I have noticed from working with a good group is that there are a lot of pretty crappy candidates out there looking for jobs. Are any of them posting here on this site? I tend to wonder. People who have been fired from two jobs. People who have done three unrelated fellowships. People who can't speak english. People who actually write in their cover letter that they are a "stellar" candidate and then proceed to talk about how it sounds trite and obnoxious to say it, but with them it is actually true!

I really have no idea why people presume that just because they went to med school and attended residency that doors should automatically open up for them and all their dreams should come true without much extra work. But that seems to be what some on this site suggest. The only acceptable jobs are partnership within 2 years or less, 40+ vacation days, >$500k salary, etc. Ask yourselves what you will do when you get a job where you are a partner - are you going to exploit the next generation just because you can, using the excuse that the job market sucks and blaming academics? Or are you not going to do this?
 
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lipomas said:
OK, well, I am out of training a couple of years, still in my first job, and I am very happy. I guess I must be delusional, right?

You guys tend to categorize everything into all or nothing opinions on this site. Either the job market sucks or it's great. It's neither. It's ok. It varies by region. You might find a job you love right off the bat or you might not. You have to educate yourself as to what makes a good job and do your research. It doesn't "suck" in the sense that most job markets suck right now, because there really aren't lots of unemployed people.

The other thing I should mention is that what I have noticed from working with a good group is that there are a lot of pretty crappy candidates out there looking for jobs. Are any of them posting here on this site? I tend to wonder. People who have been fired from two jobs. People who have done three unrelated fellowships. People who can't speak english. People who actually write in their cover letter that they are a "stellar" candidate and then proceed to talk about how it sounds trite and obnoxious to say it, but with them it is actually true!

I really have no idea why people presume that just because they went to med school and attended residency that doors should automatically open up for them and all their dreams should come true without much extra work. But that seems to be what some on this site suggest. The only acceptable jobs are partnership within 2 years or less, 40+ vacation days, >$500k salary, etc. Ask yourselves what you will do when you get a job where you are a partner - are you going to exploit the next generation just because you can, using the excuse that the job market sucks and blaming academics? Or are you not going to do this?
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Well they say the US Job Market is in the tank right now but only 15% of the people are unemployed and 25% are underemployed. So just because 60% of the people can get killer jobs doesn't mean the job market can't be described as poor.

What I think people refuse to recognize is that the whole concept of private practice is dwindling. The cottage industry era of medicine if not kaput is fading rapidly.
 
Lipomas you are absolutely correct about people expecting just because they went to undergrad, medical school, residency +1-2 fellowships they think they are entitled to a job.

Although that is a LONG time and several thousand $$ for merely a "shot" at something that may or may not come true with hard work.

I will say as a % of total trained physicians, pathologists rank amongst the highest level of unemployed/underemployed MDs. That is a simple fact I think you dont concern yourself with because you have a job already.

This isnt some mysterious cause/effect relationship, this is directly due to massive overtraining in the field by academics taking advantage of govt subsidized cheap labor.

If you dont accept that, then it utterly useless to engage in dialogue about the job market with you.
 
LADoc00 said:
Lipomas you are absolutely correct about people expecting just because they went to undergrad, medical school, residency +1-2 fellowships they think they are entitled to a job.

Although that is a LONG time and several thousand $$ for merely a "shot" at something that may or may not come true with hard work.

I will say as a % of total trained physicians, pathologists rank amongst the highest level of unemployed/underemployed MDs. That is a simple fact I think you dont concern yourself with because you have a job already.

This isnt some mysterious cause/effect relationship, this is directly due to massive overtraining in the field by academics taking advantage of govt subsidized cheap labor.

If you dont accept that, then it utterly useless to engage in dialogue about the job market with you.
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Well duh, yes, I am not saying that I don't concern myself with that fact nor do I think it is appropriate that there are unemployed pathologists. I do not subscribe to the notion that anything less than 100% employment is inappropriate or alarming, however. Because there are pathologists out there who are simply not qualified and are frankly dangerous. Anyone who does not accept this point is delusional.

Yes, I agree also that there has been overtraining. This relates to the existence of incompetent pathologists also, as there are many programs out there which should not be in business. However, there have been other factors. Pathologists have become more efficient over the past 15 years. People sign out way more cases than they used to. Some of this is for financial reasons, others because technology has improved, also because type of specimen is shifting. But as specimen load has increased, the need for pathologists has not. That was unexpected, apparently.

The problem I have with your comments and those of others is that you apparently dismiss my experience and those of similar people while simultaneously jumping on anecdotes of alternative experience as being more valid and important. If you are intellectually honest you have to recognize the limitations of your argument. All experiences are valid because each experience is equally representative. You can sit there and say you know more people who have different experiences than me, and that may well be true. I personally have no idea. But I personally know of more like me than like your dire examples. I may be lucky. I may be sheltered for all I know. But alternative explanations as well as intermediate truths are also possible.
 
LADoc,

When I see your Avatar or read your posts the B. Springsteen song "Glory Days" starts playing in my head.

You are really funny. Kind of like the dude that graduated twenty years ago and cruises the high schools in his bitchin Camaro looking for gullible babes.

You keep leaving this forum but cannot stay away. Why?
 
lipomas said:
Well duh, yes, I am not saying that I don't concern myself with that fact nor do I think it is appropriate that there are unemployed pathologists. I do not subscribe to the notion that anything less than 100% employment is inappropriate or alarming, however. Because there are pathologists out there who are simply not qualified and are frankly dangerous. Anyone who does not accept this point is delusional.

Yes, I agree also that there has been overtraining. This relates to the existence of incompetent pathologists also, as there are many programs out there which should not be in business. However, there have been other factors. Pathologists have become more efficient over the past 15 years. People sign out way more cases than they used to. Some of this is for financial reasons, others because technology has improved, also because type of specimen is shifting. But as specimen load has increased, the need for pathologists has not. That was unexpected, apparently.

The problem I have with your comments and those of others is that you apparently dismiss my experience and those of similar people while simultaneously jumping on anecdotes of alternative experience as being more valid and important. If you are intellectually honest you have to recognize the limitations of your argument. All experiences are valid because each experience is equally representative. You can sit there and say you know more people who have different experiences than me, and that may well be true. I personally have no idea. But I personally know of more like me than like your dire examples. I may be lucky. I may be sheltered for all I know. But alternative explanations as well as intermediate truths are also possible.
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Agree - you can't just pay attention to the experiences that fit your bias. I know people who have had little to no trouble with the job market and got a great job right off the bat, and others who had to settle somewhat and are looking for a better job. I personally know of only one who can't find a job but they are not a good candidate.

In my own experience, I received two true job offers (from unadvertised positions) and a couple of others expressed interest (some advertised, some unadvertised) but I took a different job before I pursued them. Pathology is hard to compare to other fields because there are simply fewer of us overall.
 
yaah said:
Agree - you can't just pay attention to the experiences that fit your bias. I know people who have had little to no trouble with the job market and got a great job right off the bat, and others who had to settle somewhat and are looking for a better job. I personally know of only one who can't find a job but they are not a good candidate.

In my own experience, I received two true job offers (from unadvertised positions) and a couple of others expressed interest (some advertised, some unadvertised) but I took a different job before I pursued them. Pathology is hard to compare to other fields because there are simply fewer of us overall.
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Just curious, not a good candidate based on what?
 
On a side note, did anyone notice the sad job posting board at CAP 10?
 
yaah said:
There are many reasons why someone can be a poor candidate. Communication skills. Reliability. Pathology knowledge, training and skills. Work ethic. Attitude (arrogance or too much passivity).
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And places like Quest and Bostwick don't care about those skills.

The bottom line is this. Residency is a joke. Programs readily admit they do not prepare trainees properly for a job. Every time there is a question about the quality of pathologists, the leadership responds with "more training". As if they know the current training model is inadequate. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone here, but the real value of residents to programs is subsidized grossing labor. As long as you can cut, they don't really care if you know how to read a slide.
 
rockit said:
And places like Quest and Bostwick don't care about those skills.

The bottom line is this. Residency is a joke. Programs readily admit they do not prepare trainees properly for a job. Every time there is a question about the quality of pathologists, the leadership responds with "more training". As if they know the current training model is inadequate. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone here, but the real value of residents to programs is subsidized grossing labor. As long as you can cut, they don't really care if you know how to read a slide.
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The faculty at my program care if I know how to read a slide.

I heard of a program with high volume (prestigious, >100,000 surgicals) near mine where I was told that you are basically there just "to get the work done."
 
yaah said:
Agree - you can't just pay attention to the experiences that fit your bias. I know people who have had little to no trouble with the job market and got a great job right off the bat, and others who had to settle somewhat and are looking for a better job. I personally know of only one who can't find a job but they are not a good candidate.

In my own experience, I received two true job offers (from unadvertised positions) and a couple of others expressed interest (some advertised, some unadvertised) but I took a different job before I pursued them. Pathology is hard to compare to other fields because there are simply fewer of us overall.
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Wut?

http://www.acgme.org/adspublic/

There are more pathology residents than residents in following residencies:
dermatology, neurological surgery, neurology, opthalmology, otolaryngology, PM&R, plastic surgery, preventive medicine, urology, and gastroenterology fellows.

Heck, there are more pathology residents than dermatology and urology COMBINED.

Keep in mind that GI biopsies, skin, and prostate biopsies constitute the bulk of specimens in pathology. Now, let's see what the ratio of the biopsy-getters (dermatology+urology+gastro) to biopsy-readers (pathology) is...

Dermatology (1149 residents) + Urology (1060) + Gastroenterology (1362) = 3571

Pathology residents: 2402 (not including dermpath fellows for some reason)

3571/2402 = 1.48

So there you have it. For every pathologist, there are only 1.48 dermourogastroenterologist. We are training way way WAY too many pathologists.

This ratio explains why there are too many pathologists chasing too few specimen, why pathology job market blows, and why gastros and uros are able to open their own podlabs and hire pathologists

Caveats: of course pathologists also get specimen from other specialties (surgery, ob-gyns, family practice), so the ratio is not as low in reality. And there is also CP work to be done. But these caveats don't invalidate my point that that job market is overcrowded.
 
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Totally agree that there are too many pathologists.
 
Nilf said:
Wut?
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My point was that people always compare pathology (when talking about jobs) to fields like radiology and internal medicine for some reason. It's not that helpful because these fields are very different. I am not trying to invalidate your other points.

A busy gastroenterologist that sends our group stuff will often send ~1000 surgical specimens per year (not including cytos). A busy urologist can send over 500 surgicals. I do a lot of GU and I am not sure how many urologists I could personally cover all the path for if that was all I did but it would probably be at least 10. I do not know how the numbers would come out if you kept working it out for every specialty and their requisite pathologist need, given that the average pathologist signs out a few thousand cases per year (derms and GIs sign out more).
 
yaah said:
A busy gastroenterologist that sends our group stuff will often send ~1000 surgical specimens per year (not including cytos). A busy urologist can send over 500 surgicals. I do a lot of GU and I am not sure how many urologists I could personally cover all the path for if that was all I did but it would probably be at least 10. I do not know how the numbers would come out if you kept working it out for every specialty and their requisite pathologist need, given that the average pathologist signs out a few thousand cases per year (derms and GIs sign out more).
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At 260 working days a year a single GI doc would have to be really busy to do 1000 cases a year.. but allowing for 1000 GI bx cases per GI doc or 500 GU bx cases.. you figure at least 3000-4000 cases per year per pathologist (if it was really all bx likely much higher, but)....

That is still at least 3-4 busy GIs or 6-8 GU docs per pathologist...
and those all are high side volumes for the bx docs and low side for pathologist reading...

just more evidence of oversupply of pathologist..
 
djmd said:
At 260 working days a year a single GI doc would have to be really busy to do 1000 cases a year.. but allowing for 1000 GI bx cases per GI doc or 500 GU bx cases.. you figure at least 3000-4000 cases per year per pathologist (if it was really all bx likely much higher, but)....

That is still at least 3-4 busy GIs or 6-8 GU docs per pathologist...
and those all are high side volumes for the bx docs and low side for pathologist reading...

just more evidence of oversupply of pathologist..
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Some of our GIs submit 1500 surgicals or more per year. It's hard to get great numbers of pathologist work load because there is so much variation. A dermpath doing only dermpath can easily handle over 10,000 surgicals a year, maybe up to 20,000. But if you are covering other things it changes. I spend a lot of my day dealing with heme stuff or cyto. I can't really quantify heme or CP stuff into "case load."
 
djmd said:
At 260 working days a year a single GI doc would have to be really busy to do 1000 cases a year.. but allowing for 1000 GI bx cases per GI doc or 500 GU bx cases.. you figure at least 3000-4000 cases per year per pathologist (if it was really all bx likely much higher, but)....

That is still at least 3-4 busy GIs or 6-8 GU docs per pathologist...
and those all are high side volumes for the bx docs and low side for pathologist reading...

just more evidence of oversupply of pathologist..
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I don't know if this is true across the country but the few departments I know well have all increased or are moving to increase the number of training spots. So it looks like things might get more over-supplied before getting leveled off.

The advice is to get a tenure track position or partnership track position or govt (i.e. V.A.) position and hope for the best.
 
djmd said:
At 260 working days a year a single GI doc would have to be really busy to do 1000 cases a year.. but allowing for 1000 GI bx cases per GI doc or 500 GU bx cases.. you figure at least 3000-4000 cases per year per pathologist (if it was really all bx likely much higher, but)....

That is still at least 3-4 busy GIs or 6-8 GU docs per pathologist...
and those all are high side volumes for the bx docs and low side for pathologist reading...

just more evidence of oversupply of pathologist..
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youe figures are very low in my experience. i am hospital based, solo and have an outpatient gi component. my 2 big hitter gi out patient groups give me aout 30 accessions/day ( most multi part) my hospital work ( about 50% gi ) provides about 20 cases a day and a handful of scattered gi groups provide about 10 ( mostly multi part) cases per day.
i would go out of my mind if i looked at 15-20 cases a day.
 
mikesheree said:
youe figures are very low in my experience. i am hospital based, solo and have an outpatient gi component. my 2 big hitter gi out patient groups give me aout 30 accessions/day ( most multi part) my hospital work ( about 50% gi ) provides about 20 cases a day and a handful of scattered gi groups provide about 10 ( mostly multi part) cases per day.
i would go out of my mind if i looked at 15-20 cases a day.
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I gave a low ball # of cases per year to S/O to underscore my point (and so someone would say that is too many cases (I don't know who would, but))...

If you want to say 13000-15000 cases per year then obviously you need even fewer pathologists... a lot fewer.
 
mikesheree said:
youe figures are very low in my experience. i am hospital based, solo and have an outpatient gi component. my 2 big hitter gi out patient groups give me aout 30 accessions/day ( most multi part) my hospital work ( about 50% gi ) provides about 20 cases a day and a handful of scattered gi groups provide about 10 ( mostly multi part) cases per day.
i would go out of my mind if i looked at 15-20 cases a day.
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50 GI cases per day and 20 "other" per day? Sounds like someone better like GI a whole lot to work there.
 
2121115 said:
50 GI cases per day and 20 "other" per day? Sounds like someone better like GI a whole lot to work there.
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more like 50 and 10. a light day is a total of 45 cases (all kinds ) and a heavy day is 75 cases all kinds the average day will be about 50 gi and 10(other). and i love gi. i have been doing it heavilly for 20 years and i find it interesting and pretty quick. i am in at 8:30 and out by 4-4:30 and am a solo hospital lab medical director. I mean how long does it take to look at an adenoma ( or the other 90%) of the GI stuff?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cleavername said:
so true? false? complete crap? some what near the truth? come on, give me something doctor.
Click to expand...

It's close to 15 years old and it's essentially irrelevant. You can argue if you want that there are some things that are "still true" or whatever, but it's more productive to look at current conditions, and attempt to project the future.
 
mikesheree said:
more like 50 and 10. a light day is a total of 45 cases (all kinds ) and a heavy day is 75 cases all kinds the average day will be about 50 gi and 10(other). and i love gi. i have been doing it heavilly for 20 years and i find it interesting and pretty quick. i am in at 8:30 and out by 4-4:30 and am a solo hospital lab medical director. I mean how long does it take to look at an adenoma ( or the other 90%) of the GI stuff?
Click to expand...

Good to hear that you like GI. I can see, though, how GI docs taking the business to a pod lab scenario, GI path in Memphis, or making you come sign out at their "office lab" so they can bill TC would be a big hit to your practice. Hopefully this won't happen. It is pretty cool though that you've got a practice built almost entirely around a subject that you like. Kudos.
 
BUMP.

Wondering how current fellows' job searches are going now? Everyone find a place they are happy with or not? This would be some good real time feedback for next year's job hunters.
 
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