tattoos?

[percywilkins]

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I was just wondering: I haven't done clinical rotations yet, but I plan on getting my left forearm and arm filled with tattoos (its something i always wanted to do). I am not trying to become #1 in my class, so having that affect my grading in the subjective clinical years does not really matter to me. However, I was just wondering if you saw any drawbacks of having them during residency and beyond? You pretty much wear a white coat all the time during residency, and for sure all the time during practice (if you so choose), correct?

And in case you do know.....do you know if this will do me that much harm during hte times I do need to wear scrubs during my surgery rotation...such as, in the extreme case...them telling me i can't even do the rotation? If my plans to go into psychiatry dont change, that rotatoin would be the only time in my med. education id have to wear scrubs (with exception of ob/gyn in the OR), correct?

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

i have NEVER seen a doctor with tattoos. that should tell you something.

 

[percywilkins]

i have NEVER seen a doctor with tattoos. that should tell you something.

it doesn't

 

[maranatha]

I have a tattoo that goes down just above my left elbow. With scrubs on, a part always showed. I don't think anybody really paid much attention to it. Of course, if you have one on your forearm you're definitely going to stand out to attendings and others when you're scrubing in on surgery or doing procedures. Some attendings will likely judge you because of that. Will it matter? It might to some attendings. But I think as long as you conduct yourself professionally, most could probably care less. The most important thing to consider would be with patients. And because, like you said, most all patient contact you'll have is when you're wearing your white coat,that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Afrikyn]

if you are a male it should not be such a big deal with patient contact because you will likely wear long sleeve shirts. one of my co-residents just got a tattoo on his inner forearm but i only see it when we are hanging out casually. if you are a woman, i would honestly advise against it. in psychiatry we very rarely (read as basically never) wear our white coats. and women do not tend to wear long sleeves everyday. i also want to get a tattoo on my hand or wrist but since i am a female i am holding off on it until i am done with residency at least. even though i think it is bs that an attending could hold something as benign as a tattoo against you, they could. it would suck that you didn't get into the residency/fellowship/job of your choice just because you decided to express yourself with a tattoo.

 

[BobA]

I was just wondering: I haven't done clinical rotations yet, but I plan on getting my left forearm and arm filled with tattoos (its something i always wanted to do). I am not trying to become #1 in my class, so having that affect my grading in the subjective clinical years does not really matter to me. However, I was just wondering if you saw any drawbacks of having them during residency and beyond? You pretty much wear a white coat all the time during residency, and for sure all the time during practice (if you so choose), correct?

And in case you do know.....do you know if this will do me that much harm during hte times I do need to wear scrubs during my surgery rotation...such as, in the extreme case...them telling me i can't even do the rotation? If my plans to go into psychiatry dont change, that rotatoin would be the only time in my med. education id have to wear scrubs (with exception of ob/gyn in the OR), correct?

If you're going to do it know this:
1) It will affect your grades, and how you get along with your team. Medicine is a profession filled with conservative people, like it or not.

2) It will affect your relationship with your patients. You can never tell how your patients are going to perceive you, so it's best to err on the side of a conservative appearance to maintain good rapport with as many patients as possible.

3) One arm full of tattoos screams to me "I shoot heroin and I'm covering up my track marks."

 

[notdeadyet]

And in case you do know.....do you know if this will do me that much harm during hte times I do need to wear scrubs during my surgery rotation...

You're going to find yourself in scrubs a lot more than just during your surgery rotation. Make sure you're comfortable with the idea of the tattoo in a clinical setting more than just a few weeks.

such as, in the extreme case...them telling me i can't even do the rotation?

No medical school is going to stop you from doing surgery because of tattoos.

That said, as folks have pointed out, lots of docs are pretty conservative. And what you do during your rotations might get a little dampened by having an arm covered in tattoos. When you approach an OB-GYN and ask to deliver their patient's baby, the odds of them giving you the head-to-toe and then saying, "No" will go up dramatically.

And it will turn off a lot of patients. It's one thing if you're older and have a faded military tattoo on your forearm. It's another thing if you're a twenty-something with a fresh colored sleeve on your left arm.

If you really feel the burning desire to get ink, start with a small one and go from there. That's probably good advice to follow even if you're not going to be a doctor.

 

[peppy]

You will most likely be wearing scrubs on Anesthesia, Emergency Medicine, OB/Gyn, and Surgery rotations. If you did run into problems because of the tattoos on those rotations, it wouldn't look good.
You may change your mind about your specialty and end up deciding to go into something surgical, so personally I think it would be best to wait on getting a sleeve tattoo or anything else very dramatic until you're an attending and don't have to answer to anyone else.
You will discover that clinical rotation grading is very subjective. Your knowledge and skills do not matter nearly as much as whether or not your attending just has an overall positive impression of you as a person. Tattoos most likely won't help their impression (though some young attendings might think it was cool, most of the attendings you work with will probably be on the older side) but it could definitely hurt. Your career is too important to mess around with!

 

[percywilkins]

Thank you all for your responses. I will wait until at least after third year then. But I would like to know...are there any points during a psychiatry residency where you would have to be wear scrubs or anything with short sleeves? Or would it be fine if I did something like this right after I graduated med school and already matched into psych, etc?

 

[fMRI]

Uh, what? Please don't count on never wearing scrubs in psych...

I was talking to a patient huddled in a corner in the ER when another patient puked on my back. -> Change of clothes. Later that morning, I lend a hand with a patient who decided not to be cooperative to the fullest... -> I ended up wearing scrubs and a friend's spare poloshirt for the rest of the day. 😀

All I have to do is wait until I'm a big doctor with an office with a walk-in closet.

And, no, I don't have any tatoos or interesting scars. 😉

 

[strangeglove]

More important than how it will affect your 3rd year clerkship grades is how it will affect your relationships with your patients as a psychiatrist, assuming that this is what you are planning on doing (this is a psychiatry forum, after all). Tattoos, piercings, hair length, wedding rings - all of these things are meaningful to patients and will affect your relationships with them, whether you believe in transference or not. A small number of patients will think you are cool, but these are not the ones who will butter your bread, if you know what I mean. So, my advice would be to go ahead and tattoo as much of your body as you like, but hide it well from your patients, especially the Borderlines and the Narcissists.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

More important than how it will affect your 3rd year clerkship grades is how it will affect your relationships with your patients as a psychiatrist, assuming that this is what you are planning on doing (this is a psychiatry forum, after all). Tattoos, piercings, hair length, wedding rings - all of these things are meaningful to patients and will affect your relationships with them, whether you believe in transference or not. A small number of patients will think you are cool, but these are not the ones who will butter your bread, if you know what I mean. So, my advice would be to go ahead and tattoo as much of your body as you like, but hide it well from your patients, especially the Borderlines and the Narcissists.

👍
I was waiting for someone to get around to saying this.
And also, I wear short sleeves frequently in our warmer months, sometimes even a polo on casual Fridays or for call weekend rounding, so don't expect that your arms will not be seen by patients. (Unless you go to Mayo and are always suit & tie-clad...)

 

[MoodDoc]

I do think credibility is important and part of it is how we appear. Certain environments may be more tolerant of appearences and some have very rigid expectations. Are the tattoos worth creating a negative image that you will then have to work at improving?

 

[Doc Samson]

👍
I was waiting for someone to get around to saying this.
And also, I wear short sleeves frequently in our warmer months, sometimes even a polo on casual Fridays or for call weekend rounding, so don't expect that your arms will not be seen by patients. (Unless you go to Mayo and are always suit & tie-clad...)

Although you don't HAVE to go to Mayo to wear a suit. 😉 Haven't worn a tie since the last day of fellowship though.

One thing I carried from my second year inpatient rotation was the advice an attending gave me which I paraphrase as: These patients need us to be their super-egos, we should at least look the part. I don't know if super-egos have tattoos.

 

[maranatha]

Although you don't HAVE to go to Mayo to wear a suit. 😉 Haven't worn a tie since the last day of fellowship though.

One thing I carried from my second year inpatient rotation was the advice an attending gave me which I paraphrase as: These patients need us to be their super-egos, we should at least look the part. I don't know if super-egos have tattoos.

When is the last time you saw a super-ego wearing a pollo shirt?

As someone mentioned earlier, the main thing is whether you're willing to wear a long sleeve shirt or not to cover the tattoos. I'm a big supporter of looking professional at work. I have a tattoo and always hide it. Outside of work is a different matter...Regarding transference, a patient will always find something about you that will stir up transference whether it's dressing too nice, too causally, having long hair, having short hair, whatever. I think the best one can do is just dress professionally and not try too hard to accommodate how you think others might perceive you. Alternatively, maybe showing my tattoo could help bring up some interesting issues? Let the transference flow...Yeah baby! 😀

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Although you don't HAVE to go to Mayo to wear a suit. 😉 Haven't worn a tie since the last day of fellowship though.

One thing I carried from my second year inpatient rotation was the advice an attending gave me which I paraphrase as: These patients need us to be their super-egos, we should at least look the part. I don't know if super-egos have tattoos.

Maybe I should get Freud tattooed on one bicep, and Skinner on the other...

 

[nancysinatra]

Yeah, I feel like it's not so much about being "conservative" and dressing for success in your clerkship as it is just thinking about what impression this has on patients. They needn't be just psych patients either. Remember a lot of patients are way different from you demographically. I think anything that really places you one way or another into a certain category, that could elicit some reaction from patients. Sometimes when I see Ob/Gyn residents with their four pound engagement rings, it bothers me in the same way.

There was a New York Times Magazine article this week about depression, and the author mentioned the psychiatry resident's engagement ring, and the effect it had on her. No tattoos in the story though.

 

[fMRI]

Maybe I should get Freud tattooed on one bicep, and Skinner on the other...

Yes please, and wear that T-shirt (please see other post for ordering information) with the chemical formula of Haldol printed on the front. That completes the look nicely.

 

[percywilkins]

Again, thanks for the responses. But I did just want to say that I mainly wanted to know whether we had control over having sleeves over our arms (i.e. could wear a white coat or full sleeve shirt at all times) from day 1 of residency and beyond. I know that having tattoos would be a huge negative when in residency and in practice....if they were showing. But if they are covered up then there's nothing to worry about. Thats all i wanted to know: whether I will always be able to cover them up.

Someone above said something about having to wear scrubs during residency...so maybe we can't all the time. And then one of the attendings mentioned he likes to wear polo shirts...i assumed it was pretty much expected that you had to wear full sleeves, but now that I know that polo shirts are ok, then maybe tattoos arent the best idea, because I like having my choice of clothing to be the least restricted as possible

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

it doesn't

get tattoos if you want to...but DON'T let them be visible while working.

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

Maybe I should get Freud tattooed on one bicep, and Skinner on the other...

I knew a guy who had a Freud tattoo on his bicep!

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

I do think credibility is important and part of it is how we appear. Certain environments may be more tolerant of appearences and some have very rigid expectations. Are the tattoos worth creating a negative image that you will then have to work at improving?

It depends on the tattoos, though. A traditional Japanese sleeve is a work of art and would be received quite differently than pinup girls or other things.

 

[Thorazine]

Someone above said something about having to wear scrubs during residency...so maybe we can't all the time.

well if you are wearing scrubs in psych residency, you are probably on call or in the ER. then you could get away with a long sleeve shirt under them since you arent operating on anything. (we hope 😉)

 

[strangeglove]

well if you are wearing scrubs in psych residency, you are probably on call or in the ER. then you could get away with a long sleeve shirt under them since you arent operating on anything. (we hope 😉)

You'll probably never be required to wear scrubs in psychiatry. Most people do this by choice.

 

[luft]

3) One arm full of tattoos screams to me "I shoot heroin and I'm covering up my track marks."

Seriously? I would have never read into a full arm sleeve as a sign of heroin use. I'm just curious where you got that tidbit-personal observation? Juicy tip from a patient? Are you just joking here? Do you...(uncomfortable throat clearing and swallowing)...happen to have an arm covered in tattoos?

 

[Shikima]

I have tattoo's from when I served during the first gulf war.

All sense and sensibility just went out the window when I was full of P&V and being with a grunt unit as a Corpsman.

Just be aware that if you do plan on wearing short sleeve shirts in summer, others will (not may) judge you. Some positive, some negative, some indifferent. Do some soul searching before embarking on a project like this.

 

[TX515]

Go for it.

 

[chameleonknight]

Ok, even if you are wearing scrubs you can still wear a long sleeve t-shirt underneath. It looks very nice and is comfortable unless it's the middle of summer. 🙂

e: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/C...s_061214_GGTV/ss_061214_GGTV_scrubs.widec.jpg
I bet he has all kinds of crazy tats under there.

 

[notdeadyet]

Ok, even if you are wearing scrubs you can still wear a long sleeve t-shirt underneath. It looks very nice and is comfortable unless it's the middle of summer. 🙂

If you're required to wear scrubs, you might find that your hospital will not allow you to rock the long sleeve underneath look.

My buddy was hoping to do exactly that, to hide arm tattoos he worried made him look unprofessional. He wore the long sleeves underneath and was stopped repeatedly and told him it was a no-go.

Which makes sense I suppose. If the idea of scrubs is to prevent spread of disease, you're sort of short-circuiting that by wearing your long sleeve cotton from home.

 

[chameleonknight]

Well, for surgery and OB that goes w/o saying. I was talking more about ER situations since the OP is interested in psych.

 

[Poitiers2]

it doesn't

Not very good with context clues, eh?

 

[percywilkins]

Not very good with context clues, eh?

What is that supposed to mean? Her post did not answer my question at all.

Not very good with avoiding assumptions or generalizations, eh?

 

[billypilgrim37]

Actually, that post answered your question perfectly. You don't see a lot of doctors with tattoos. That suggests that having tattoos isn't in the normal realm of behaviors associated with being a physician.

If you get tattoos that people are going to be able to see (and, if they aren't covered by casual clothing, people are going to see it--and those pointing to the OR as a place where tattoos are going to be very hard to hide is important information), then there are consequences. That doesn't mean you shouldn't get them. It just means that you shouldn't get them and then be upset when someone treats you differently because of them. It will happen. It probably won't happen a lot.

You make a choice to present yourself a certain way, and people react to that choice. If you're willing to accept those consequences, that's great.

I find it a little interesting that you become so defensive (at least, the tone comes off as very defensive, whether that's your intention or not) when someone answers your question with valuable information. And that valuable information is that some people are going to dismiss your decision as unwise, and they will do it flippantly, just like that poster did. And some people will still take you seriously, like other people here have for the most part. That's a fair sample of how you're going to be treated as an M3 in general, regardless of tattoo status.

So, if someone reacts negatively to your tattoos, and your tendency is to become defensive, then I'd say you can either a) not get the tattoos, or b) get the tattoos, and think long and hard about how you react if/when you feel that you are being slighted because of them.

Since you obviously would like to get them (and it is certainly well within your right and privilege to do so--you've worked too hard to not get to do what you really want to do within reason), your best bet is to get them and really consider all of the different reasons why you want them and what it means for you to do something for yourself that some certain others will deem unwise and irresponsible. There are probably some very good answers you could come up with, and that sort of self-knowledge is probably pretty valuable. Especially for a future psychiatrist.

 

[marie337]

I have several tattoos on my arms, one of which is below the elbow. I can tell you that it in no way affected my clinical grades. However, the only times that I actually let them be seen was during my surgery and OB rotations. I feel like, especially because I'm a girl, I have to keep them covered up, which makes me feel kind of silly but that's the way the world works. So, yes this means I wear long sleeves to work during the summer unless I know I will be wearing my white coat all day. Now I'm wondering when to "come out" to my residency because I'm pretty sure none of them know about my tattoos yet. I don't think I will worry about any of this when I'm an attending. I just don't care that much and so far I don't think it affects patient care. That could change as I gain more experience though! I'm hoping to get another one this summer, by the way.

 

[percywilkins]

Actually, that post answered your question perfectly. You don't see a lot of doctors with tattoos. That suggests that having tattoos isn't in the normal realm of behaviors associated with being a physician.

The reason I responded that way was because her response really didn't answer my question. I didn't ask whether doing so was within the normal realm of being a physician...I already know that it isn't. I know it would affect me negatively during the subjective clinical years--if they were seen. But my question focused on whether you can wear full sleeves during residency and beyond...and whether I would possibly not be able to complete a rotation if I had tattoos all over my arms (due to rules concerning professional apperances/attire). Everyone responded with great info...and I appreciated it and thanked everyone for it. Of course I am going to get annoyed when someone posts something like what "poiters" said...who wouldn't? Any harsh tone from me is not because I am defensive about my choice to possibly get a tattoo (I actually decided not to do it after all the great info I got from everyone). It stems from being annoyed by posters trying to be smart.

She said that she has never seen a doctor with tattoos. How many forearms of docs has she seen, as a pre-health student? I haven't seen the forearms of any docs, save for a surgeon who operated on me once in the OR. 99.9% of docs wear full sleeves...so her response doesn't say much, since you don't know whats under those sleeves.

 

[percywilkins]

I have several tattoos on my arms, one of which is below the elbow. I can tell you that it in no way affected my clinical grades. However, the only times that I actually let them be seen was during my surgery and OB rotations. I feel like, especially because I'm a girl, I have to keep them covered up, which makes me feel kind of silly but that's the way the world works. So, yes this means I wear long sleeves to work during the summer unless I know I will be wearing my white coat all day. Now I'm wondering when to "come out" to my residency because I'm pretty sure none of them know about my tattoos yet. I don't think I will worry about any of this when I'm an attending. I just don't care that much and so far I don't think it affects patient care. That could change as I gain more experience though! I'm hoping to get another one this summer, by the way.

Oh wow...thats awesome. Thanks for your response.

 

[dakinibean]

Hi!

To answer your question, I have found that the ambient temperature in hospitals and conference rooms fluctuates enough that the option to wear short sleeves might be more valuable than you expect.

I personally think you should get your sleeve, if it makes you feel happy to do so. No matter where you go, what you look like, or what you do, somebody will perceive/project a problem with you. It is a daily reality for many patients (gay, minority, pregnant), med students who pick psychiatry, and even competitive-ring wearing OB residents.

If you've experimented with your appearance before, you probably have first-hand knowledge of how strongly people react to "alternative" appearances (like bleached or dyed locks, piercings, or shortly-cropped hair on a girl). If you haven't, it is a striking experience. I live in a very progressive West Coast city, and still noticed huge differences in the way most strangers treated me while I sported a moderately alternative look. (After living most of my life as a high-achieving student with the tacit approval of grocery store attendants, it was shocking to be refused service in candy stores, followed around in places where I'd shopped for literally decades, etc).

Doctors are like most people in this regard - while many people will treat you differently (some with more judgment and suspicion, a few with admiration) very few will give you actual trouble. As you suspect, while wearing short sleeves, you might (reasonably or not) get docked on your professionalism grade, and become the brunt of some sleep deprived person's displacement more often than otherwise. To answer your question about drawbacks, my concern for you would be the occasional attending who decided they didn't like you, and then hazed you. I agree with Bob A that doctors are often very conservative people (plus, your sleeve might threaten the few who need to be the most interesting person in the room to feel happy). You would get very little sympathy, you would have almost no power, and your life could really suck.

Depending on what your future plans are, I think your sleeve may be an asset, rather than an obstacle. For example, if you chose to work with adolescents in a metropolitan city, a sweet sleeve might make you more accessible than someone sporting Brooks Brothers and chinos - though the ensemble might look smashing together.

 

[235750]

Why would you limit yourself to long sleeves for the rest of your career? Is having a tattoo on a prominent part of your body really worth it?

When I see tattoo on a doc, I don't think 'IV drug usuer'. However, I do think to myself that person has an increased risk for Hep. Also, I agree with what Strangelove said

Part of professionalism is looking professional. If you'd like show off your rebellious side by permanently scarring your body, why not get a more discreet marking like a tramp stamp?

 

[notdeadyet]

When I see tattoo on a doc, I don't think 'IV drug usuer'.

I think folks are more prone to think 'fad follower" than 'IV drug user' when they see a tattoo these days. They skyrocketed in popularity to the point that they're extremely common in folks currently around 30 and under.

I don't think most folks in this demographic will think much of a tattoo. Your older patients may be another story. And also, there's a big difference between a tattoo and sleeves.

 

[whopper]

Agree with Samson's opinion. We need to look the part.

There is a grey area. Several tattoos that are covered that patients will not see--no problem if you have one.

Several I'm sure are of no problem, but there's certainly a line. Take for example this guy.

http://chud.com/nextraimages/papillon02.jpg

I'm not mentioning this to be judgmental. Several texts recommend that offices be neutral in setting to avoid something that may set off the patient in a non-therapeutic manner. Tattoos to some are not within the cultural norm, and may set off the person, though I would also acknowledge that this would be rare these days. It might also show to people that you're a "cool" doctor.