TBR CBT #3 Question 15

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TheMightyBoosh

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If a compound becomes less soluble as the temperature of the solution is increased, then which of the following statements about the entropy and enthalpy changes associated with its solvation is correct?

A. ∆S is probably negative; ∆H must be negative.
B. ∆S is probably positive; ∆H must be negative.
C. ∆S is probably negative; ∆H cannot be determined without more information.
D. ∆S is probably positive; ∆H cannot be determined without more information.

Solution:
B is the best answer. Regardless of whether the compound becomes more or less soluble with increasing temperature, the change in entropy is positive for any salt dissociating into ions. This is because the solution is more random than the lattice structure, so choices A and C are eliminated. As heat is added to a solution, we observe that the reverse reaction is favored, corresponding to a decrease in solubility. This implies that the reaction is exothermic. A solid forms, removing extra heat from the system. Choice B is thus a better answer than choice D. The best answer is B.
I understand that a solution is more random than the lattice structure and why entropy should be positive. I also get that they figured out the sign for enthalpy based on Le Chatelier's principle (since heat is a product, and the addition of heat heat would drive the reaction towards the reactant side).

What confuses me is the contradiction that comes up if I try to solve this problem with the free energy equation delta G = delta H - T(delta S), because if you increase temperature with a positive delta S and negative delta H, delta G should become more negative and the reaction (solvation) should be more favorable.

Can anyone explain this?

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B is the best answer. Regardless of whether the compound becomes more or less soluble with increasing temperature, the change in entropy is positive for any salt dissociating into ions. This is because the solution is more random than the lattice structure, so choices A and C are eliminated.

Solvation does not always have a positive entropy. The salt gains entropy, but the solvent decreses in entropy as it interacts with solute. The overall entropy change depends on the magnitude of change of both solvent and solute.
 
I would think that the enthalpy is positive for the reverse reaction. If the forward reaction is exothermic, releasing energy. Adding energy will become an endothermic reaction in the reverse direction. Wouldnt enthalpy change become positive?
 
Solvation does not always have a positive entropy. The salt gains entropy, but the solvent decreses in entropy as it interacts with solute. The overall entropy change depends on the magnitude of change of both solvent and solute.

Please show a specific example where a salt dissociating into solution has a negative entropy. To the best of my knowledge, there is not such a case. Every example I could find has a positive entropy change.

Salt into ions is a huge increase in entropy (like solid to gas would be). The solvent starts as a liquid, so it is mobile and random. Upon binding solute, some solvent particles are ligated to an ion, but they are still freely moving around the solution with the solute. Any change in entropy in going from random motion to random motion will be trivial compared to what the system gains when the ion lattice becomes free moving ions.
 
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I would think that the enthalpy is positive for the reverse reaction. If the forward reaction is exothermic, releasing energy. Adding energy will become an endothermic reaction in the reverse direction. Wouldnt enthalpy change become positive?


I think the question is talking about the thermodynamics of the original solvation, not where the temp is increased.


And the OP's original question is still very valid and unanswered. Why doesn't the direction of the reaction agree with the delta G equation?
If you think about it, it doesn't even make sense for something to be LESS soluble when temp is increased. If it becomes less soluble, doesn't that mean that DeltaS is negative?
 
I just looked it up and I think entropy would be negative according to John Wetzel's notes on his website. Link is here: http://www.wikipremed.com/mcat_course.php?code=0211000400000000

Credit to John Wetzel

I think Wetzel is leaving out the increase in entropy from when the salt goes from a crystallized structure to free ions. After that, it's surrounded by solvent molecules, which leads to a decrease in entropy (essentially what Berk said). I'm pretty sure that Berk is right when he says that the increase is a lot bigger than the decrease, so Delta S = positive.
 
I'm really confused.

Me too. It seems like the TBR writers were focusing only on Le Chatlier's principle and didn't consider the Delta G effect. Hopefully Berk can speak to this. Not sure how you reconcile a negative Delta G and the reverse reaction being favored.

Maybe someone more knowledge can explain this.
 
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