TCOM vs UTRGV

[urhen]

I know that some people say you should pick MD instead of DO, but that is not what this is about. I am looking for feedback from people who know specifics about these two schools.

TCOM
Pros:
Best DO school in the nation
Established
Good match list
Well respected
Nice area with things to do

Cons:
DO? (I am not sure if DO bias matters in Texas)
TCU MD school on campus? (I am not sure if this matters either)

UTRGV
Pros:
MD
Cost of living
Part of a larger university

Cons:
New school
No match list yet
Small class? (May be a pro)
H/HP/P/F

I am not sure how to rank these schools. Any advice? FWIW I do not know which specialty I want to pursue.

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[Goldy$$$]

Really tough decision but you can't go wrong with either. However, here's my 2 cents as an incoming MS1 at UTRGV, I'd opt with UTRGV simply because of the recent AOA/ACGME residency merge. We all have different priorities and factors we consider when choosing a school, but I think a huge deciding factor of a school is the Match at the end of it all. TCOM is well established and has historically matched very well but with the merger happening in 2020 I'm almost certain that the few students they've had match in competitive specialities (ie: neurosurg, ortho, ENT, optho, etc) will certainly drop to 0 or one lucky student. On the other hand, UTRGV does not have match data to back its credibility up but it does have many UTRGV SOM affiliated residency programs and more on the way. Furthermore, with the removal of AOA residency spots this opens more spots at competitive speciality programs for MD's that were once exclusive for DO's. I also felt that the faculty/staff were very supportive of students at UTRGV and want to do their best to prepare students to match into any desired speciality they want.

If you are content with fam med, peds, IM, and other relatively less competitive specialities and want the perks of living in a better city with more things to do, TCOM is the way to go.

However, if any part of you wants to compete for a selective speciality in the near future the MD degree from UTRGV will open more doors for you.

 

[urhen]

TCOM is well established and has historically matched very well but with the merger happening in 2020 I'm almost certain that the few students they've had match in competitive specialities (ie: neurosurg, ortho, ENT, optho, etc) will certainly drop to 0 or one lucky student. On the other hand, UTRGV does not have match data to back its credibility up but it does have many UTRGV SOM affiliated residency programs and more on the way.

Thanks for the input! For those competitive residencies you listed, TCOM has always matched into ACGME programs. Ortho is the one exception, but still about 1/3 of the Ortho matches were ACGME. So I don't think the merger will have much of an impact.

The residency programs I see affiliated with UTRGV are FM, GS, IM, OB, and psych. TCOM has a derm program.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Although, I would almost always say go to the MD program over the DO one. This is one tough case where I would probably choose TCOM over the MD school. TCOM has their own set of competitive residency programs and they've always matched well into competitive programs around the country, so I don't see that changing with the merger. If you think you'll hate OMM and/or hate having to explain what DO means to your patients in the future then go MD, but TCOM should be the best choice here IMO.

 

[wysdoc]

If these were your only 2 interviews, I would choose TCOM. You can PM me for reasoning.

 

[Isoval]

I agree with @DrStephenStrange and @wysdoc here for a couple varying reasons.

For your concerns: as a current TCOM student, I can assure you that there is absolutely no consequence of the MD school on our program. Our anatomy lab times are unchanged (the MD school took a time before our usual lab time), our rotations are almost entirely unchanged (we have retained all JPS spots), and, frankly, I never even see them.

To our discredit (and for future reference), I would personally prefer a school to be H/HP/P/F. There are many times I’ve been on the border of honors and then get knocked to a P by a tenth of a point. In my view, it’s nice to have a system to grab the people who slip through honors but perform well above the pass marker.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm almost certain that the few students they've had match in competitive specialities (ie: neurosurg, ortho, ENT, optho, etc) will certainly drop to 0 or one lucky student.

Not going to happen. TCOM has put people into MD ortho, MD Uro, Interventional Rads X3, MD Optho, MD ENT, and MD Neurosurgery within only the last 2-3 years.

Furthermore, with the removal of AOA residency spots this opens more spots at competitive speciality programs for MD's that were once exclusive for DO's.

Don't underestimate the top DO students that chase these specialties. They can go toe to toe with just about any MD in the country.

TCOM has their own set of competitive residency programs

Not really. They have a Derm program and a GS program that's malignant AF and that's about it. There are no DO EM, Ortho, ENT, Neurosurgery, etc, programs in Texas.

I will probably never tell someone to go to a DO school over an MD one on the pure fact that with the rapid expansion of medical schools an average MD student is simply going to go farther in the match than the average DO. While I agree that TCOM is one of the best DO programs in the country and these effects are likely diminished somewhat, I still say to choose the MD school. It's not just specialty choice, it's also program selection and an MD will have more programs available to them in just about every field.

 

[urhen]

To our discredit (and for future reference), I would personally prefer a school to be H/HP/P/F.

Isn't H/HP/P/F the same thing as A/B/C/F? A true pass fail system seems less stressful.

 

[urhen]

I will probably never tell someone to go to a DO school over an MD one on the pure fact that with the rapid expansion of medical schools an average MD student is simply going to go farther in the match than the average DO. While I agree that TCOM is one of the best DO programs in the country and these effects are likely diminished somewhat, I still say to choose the MD school. It's not just specialty choice, it's also program selection and an MD will have more programs available to them in just about every field.

I agree with you to a certain extent, but it's hard to rank a brand new MD school higher when TCOM has always been so impressive.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I agree with you to a certain extent, but it's hard to rank a brand new MD school higher when TCOM has always been so impressive.

But not really. Even new MD schools match better than DO schools, the one exception to this point has been CNU.

 

[urhen]

But not really. Even new MD schools match better than DO schools, the one exception to this point has been CNU.

TCOM's match list is consistently comparable to low-mid tier MD schools so I don't see your point.

 

[Isoval]

I agree with you to a certain extent, but it's hard to rank a brand new MD school higher when TCOM has always been so impressive.

From my perspective, as someone who consistently finishes blocks in the 88-90 range (honors at TCOM is between 90 and 91), it would certainly be better for me to have a HP in the middle. In my opinion, it would be nice to have something demarcating me on my transcript as being "ahead of the curve" but not quite "bleeding edge".

Of course, this is all of minimal value to residency programs, but it certainly couldn't hurt.

The reality is that, in medical school, "P" is the A of undergraduate for lack of better descriptor terms.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

TCOM's match list is consistently comparable to low-mid tier MD schools so I don't see your point.

No DO school has a match list that is comparable to a low tier MD school. You will also have to do a lot better at the DO school to get the same match result.

 

[urhen]

No DO school has a match list that is comparable to a low tier MD school. You will also have to do a lot better at the DO school to get the same match result.

What is the major difference between the TTUHSC match list and TCOMs? I think the TTUHSC list is better, but they seem comparable nonetheless. I am genuinely curious.

I have no idea how strong UTRGV's matches will be with their program being new.

So which school would you rank higher?

 

[PreachyMusican39]

OP I'm also interested to know if one of the locations stood out to you or if the location is important to you. I'm from Fort Worth myself and I really like the city. I think you would have a very different lifestyle, living in Fort Worth vs. living in Edinburg.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What is the major difference between the TTUHSC match list and TCOMs? I think the TTUHSC list is better, but they seem comparable nonetheless. I am genuinely curious.

They are not comparable. Not even close. I just pulled up TTUHSC’s list and an IM match to MGH is at the top. That TTUHSC list is better than a list made up of the top 10 matches at every DO school combined.

 

[urhen]

OP I'm also interested to know if one of the locations stood out to you or if the location is important to you. I'm from Fort Worth myself and I really like the city. I think you would have a very different lifestyle, living in Fort Worth vs. living in Edinburg.

Location is important to me, but admittedly there are other more important factors. How would you describe Fort Worth?

They are not comparable. Not even close. I just pulled up TTUHSC’s list and an IM match to MGH is at the top. That TTUHSC list is better than a list made up of the top 10 matches at every DO school combined.

I came across an old thread that has a lot of good information. See below.

As far as the comment about many of the impressive matches are in Texas, that's because 90% of the student body is from Texas. Many from Texas = many want to stay in Texas. Family is nearby. Need I remind that in the past 3 years, impressive NON-TEXAS matches from TCOM also include: the Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, UCLA, UC Davis, Ohio State, University of Missouri, Vanderbilt, University of Washington, Harvard, University of Utah, UPMC, Case Western, Johns Hopkins, Emory and Michigan State.
You will get an excellent education at TCOM, hand's down.

I personally would choose UTRGV. But I do not know many of the cons associated with that school and TCOM is definitely the best DO school in the nation.

Basically take the information in this thread and from PMs - and think to yourself where you’d be happier and where you’d be more successful. Find the balance between those two. Unless you might be interested in ortho, neurosurg, derm, optho, or plastics - then pick UTRGV and go to the MD school

Thank you for the help! According to the post below it looks like TCOM matches well to those competitive specialties, in Texas.

TCOM is very well respected in TX, so if you EITHER would like to stay in TX for residency OR would be happy in a primary care or less competitive specialty, then the cost differential probably tilts in TCOM's favor. If you want a competitive specialty outside of TX, then the MD would probably help.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I came across an old thread that has a lot of good information. See below.

Your missing the point. TCOM is a great school, yes, however your opportunities will NOT be the same no matter how much you might think they will be. TCOM compared to almost any other DO school will come out on top, but at the end of the day it is still a DO school and an average student at TCOM will have less opportunities than the average student at any MD school. If you are thinking about doing anything that's above average on the competitiveness spectrum then this shouldn't even be a question.

According to the post below it looks like TCOM matches well to those competitive specialties, in Texas.

They do ok considering they are a DO school. Compared to the MD schools they do worse. They have some superstars that make it and these people are elite applicants that no one should assume is going to be them. Going to TCOM thinking you're going to be the person who gets a 265 with multiple pubs that matches MD Ortho is magical thinking. Could it happen? Sure, but it is extremely unlikely for any given matriculant.

Going to TCOM is a fine decision, but make sure you understand what it likely means. In a lot of scenarios it won't matter, but if you are thinking anything competitive then the MD will help you significantly.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The MD program. ALWAYS choose the MD program unless you've got major barriers or reasons for choosing a program for Geography.

Yes, TCOM is a good program. But being a DO is immediately damaging to your residency application. We are talking being on paper 30% less likely to match in competitive specialties and this is not even to analyze the tier of which the residents will stratify into.

Last year when I rotated at some aways it was amazing seeing how different the match was going for people at my program and for average students at even lower tier MD programs. Where some of my friends had only community iis I knew people who were entirely university program with worse boards.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Your missing the point. TCOM is a great school, yes, however your opportunities will NOT be the same no matter how much you might think they will be. TCOM compared to almost any other DO school will come out on top, but at the end of the day it is still a DO school and an average student at TCOM will have less opportunities than the average student at any MD school. If you are thinking about doing anything that's above average on the competitiveness spectrum then this shouldn't even be a question.



They do ok considering they are a DO school. Compared to the MD schools they do worse. They have some superstars that make it and these people are elite applicants that no one should assume is going to be them. Going to TCOM thinking you're going to be the person who gets a 265 with multiple pubs that matches MD Ortho is magical thinking. Could it happen? Sure, but it is extremely unlikely for any given matriculant.

Going to TCOM is a fine decision, but make sure you understand what it likely means. In a lot of scenarios it won't matter, but if you are thinking anything competitive then the MD will help you significantly.

Pretty much. You want to go into Optho as an MD? Score a 240 and have a 90% chance. As a DO? Score a 260 and match into an older community DO program if you're lucky.

 

[urhen]

It seems like this thread is devolving into an MD vs DO thread. There is a reason my OP asked for feedback from people who know specifics about the two schools in question.

An established MD school vs TCOM? Sure, the MD school has some advantages. That advantage gap is narrowed for residency programs in Texas.
But a brand new MD school vs TCOM? Saying to always pick MD over DO no matter what is not helpful.

But not really. Even new MD schools match better than DO schools, the one exception to this point has been CNU.

You do realize that UTRGV and CNU both received preliminary accreditation in 2015, but CNU has since been promoted to Provisional status while UTRGV still has Preliminary status, right? I think UTRGV will be a great school in the future, but being brand new leaves certain things unknown. TCOM is a known quantity.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

But a brand new MD school vs TCOM? Saying to always pick MD over DO no matter what is not helpful.

It is helpful because it's true.

You do realize that UTRGV and CNU both received preliminary accreditation in 2015, but CNU has since been promoted to Provisional status while UTRGV still has Preliminary status, right? I think UTRGV will be a great school in the future, but being brand new leaves certain things unknown. TCOM is a known quantity

100% Irrelevant. Also, the preliminary status goes away once you've graduated a class. UTRGV hasn't graduated on yet, CNU has.

Clearly you are looking for validation for choosing TCOM. Go to TCOM, it's a fine school, but don't be surprised when everything we've told you is correct. If you are thinking of a competitive specialty going to TCOM is 100% the wrong decision.

 

[wysdoc]

It is helpful because it's true.


100% Irrelevant. Also, the preliminary status goes away once you've graduated a class. UTRGV hasn't graduated on yet, CNU has.

Clearly you are looking for validation for choosing TCOM. Go to TCOM, it's a fine school, but don't be surprised when everything we've told you is correct. If you are thinking of a competitive specialty going to TCOM is 100% the wrong decision.

Preliminary status does not “go away” once you have graduated a class. LCME visits, analyses, and reports must advance the school to provisional status, or not. UTRGV did not advance at the 2-year point, as the other new Texas MD school, Dell, did.

 

[deleted915325]

Just go to TCOM if you that’s what you want. I have a friend who goes to UTRGV and he says administration is a disorganized sh**show and have issues already. I’d rather have security in my future personally. Especially if not gunning for a top specialty

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Preliminary status does not “go away” once you have graduated a class. LCME visits, analyses, and reports must advance the school to provisional status, or not. UTRGV did not advance at the 2-year point, as the other new Texas MD school, Dell, did.

Ah. I was thinking of something different then.

 

[wysdoc]

Ah. I was thinking of something different then.

It is true that a school may only reach full accreditation after graduating its first class. I don’t really know what to make of the UTRGV situation in which their first class cohort will complete 4 years while the school is still under preliminary accreditation status. It is an unusual situation.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

It is true that a school may only reach full accreditation after graduating its first class. I don’t really know what to make of the UTRGV situation in which their first class cohort will complete 4 years while the school is still under preliminary accreditation status. It is an unusual situation.

Well they still haven't graduated their first class yet. That has to happen first, then they get their campus visit from the LCME to receive full accreditation.

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[urhen]

Well they still haven't graduated their first class yet. That has to happen first, then they get their campus visit from the LCME to receive full accreditation.

You should read through this. Schools cannot jump from Preliminary to Full. They must have Provisional first.

Accreditation Process Overview | LCME

lcme.org

 

[DrStephenStrange]

You should read through this. Schools cannot jump from Preliminary to Full. They must have Provisional first.

Accreditation Process Overview | LCME

lcme.org

Oh I see. I was unaware that they had to get provisional status before the first class graduates.

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[JBM16BYU]

Hi there! So as someone who graduated from TCOM, let me expound a little more about the school. I can't speak for UTRGV since I have like zero knowledge about their medical school, but TCOM has been around since 1970 (50 years this upcoming year). They've graduated 1000's of medical students, now physicians. Yes, DO school graduates do typically go into primary care (FM, IM, Peds) if you look at it percentage-wise throughout the country, but TCOM does have a fair amount of students that do not choose to go that route. I personally have friends from TCOM who are in PM&R, Psychiatry, OBGYN, OrthoSurg, GenSurg, Derm, Rads, ENT, NeuroSurg, Ophtho, Pathology, IR, EM etc. They did not all match at previous DO programs that participated in the AOA (in fact, most of them did not go that route but went through the ACGME accredited programs). Some of the more competitive specialties that were listed in previous posts are competitive whether you're an MD or a DO applicant. They get more and more competitive by the year. You have to be a top applicant from any school to match them. No matter where you end up going, working hard in school, grades, board scores, letters of rec, volunteering, research, publications, and the interview itself all go into whether you rank highly on a program's match list or ranked at all. Some specialties historically have tended to lean more MD, which I'm not sure why persists considering many DO students take the USMLE and perform the same as MD students, if you look at primarily just board scores. That in itself should show that the difference between the education at an MD school vs. DO school isn't much different (excluding the osteopathic manipulative medicine hours you spend at DO school). Some people will say that MD schools have more research opportunities, but it's really all what you make of it (coming from someone who now has reviewed some residency applications, MD vs. DO in a research perspective doesn't differ all that much, it really depends on the applicants themselves). All in all, you'll just have to decide where you'll be happy, where you'll get a good education, cost (which is a factor when you think of loans), and future goals, and be the best MD or DO applicant you can be. I was fortunate enough to go to TCOM and now have matched into competitive programs (prelim IM year and advanced program) that I'm very happy with. You'll have to work hard to match into those programs regardless of where you go. Best of luck in your decision making process.