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Teach me about European Medical Schools

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TravisP

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I live in Missouri and i'm starting college this fall as a Medical Sciences major. I have a couple of questions on European Medical Schools.

What are the top ranking medical schools for English speakers? I've been looking around and I found schools in Poland and Hungary thats has English programs.

How does the residency program work for people who went to Europe to get their degree?

How much do doctors make in Europe compared to the U.S.?

How much does it cost to attend European U. compared to the states.
 
M

Miklos

TravisP said:
I live in Missouri and i'm starting college this fall as a Medical Sciences major. I have a couple of questions on European Medical Schools.

What are the top ranking medical schools for English speakers? I've been looking around and I found schools in Poland and Hungary thats has English programs.

How does the residency program work for people who went to Europe to get their degree?

How much do doctors make in Europe compared to the U.S.?

How much does it cost to attend European U. compared to the states.

Ranking is at best a murky concept. The best schools in Europe that teach in the English language are found in the UK and Ireland. Similarly, the best schools that teach in Czech, Hungarian, Polish, or whatever language are found in those respective countries.

Re: U.S. residencies. Grads from any foreign school who wish to practice medicine in the U.S. must fulfill the ECFMG requirements www.ecfmg.org (essentially attending a listed medical school, passing the USMLE Steps 1, 2CS and 2CK) AND the requirements that individual state licensing authorities impose. These grads then compete with others like them and U.S. grads, some D.O.s, etc.. in the "match" see www.nrmp.org

Re: European residencies. Generally speaking, the same qualification takes longer to achieve in Europe than it does in the U.S.

Why?

Doctors in Europe are in essence civil servants and work for a monopoly (the given government healthcare authority). So, it is in the interest of the state to extend the post-graduate training for as long as possible to pay as little as possible (because fully qualified specialists earn a lot more than junior doctors). Each country in Europe has its own system, but once one achieves a specialty certification, there is in theory a fair amount of portability, especially when it comes to countries where there is shortage of doctors.

NB English only cuts it in the Ireland and UK; for all other countries, one has to learn the native language in order to do postgraduate training. Also, getting a work permit for an non-EU citizen/resident is often a very difficult matter.

Re: earnings. In short, the European make less. Even if we take some of the highest earning doctors in the EU, the British consultants who make about 80,000 pounds working for the NHS; which translates to roughly US$150,000 at current exchange rates the comparison is poor. Why?

The marginal tax rate in the UK is significantly higher than the U.S.; therefore less take home pay (gotta finance those social programs somehow, right?) In addition, consumer goods are more expensive in the UK than in most parts of the U.S. So, relatively speaking the consultants have less money to spend on more expensive items than U.S. specialists.

Nevermind that the 80,000 pounds is near the top of the scale (it goes up a little bit higher based on experience), this is not the case in the U.S. In addition, as the post-graduate training is longer, it takes more time to reach the consultant pay.

Re: cost. That depends.

The Irish programs are among the most expensive. Hopefully, one of those folks will answer this thread. (I'd be curious as to how they manage to finance their education, especially these days, as the dollar has fallen versus the Euro.) See www.atlanticbridge.com for info on their programs.

The Czech and Hungarian English language programs by comparison cost roughly US$10,000 a year in tuition.

For more info on some of these schools, I suggest that you visit the Eastern Europe forum at www.valuemd.com

Miklos
 

Phat_Doc69

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i can speak for hungary. there are 4 medical schools in hungary, medical university of debrecen (DOTE), semmelweis university (SOTE), albert szent-gyorgyi medical university (univ. of szeged) (SZOTE), university of pecs medical school (POTE). all 4 medical schools offer 6-year MD english programs that follow the hungarian programs. the education is very good. however, it doesn't prepare you for the USMLE steps.

as far as i know there is no list that ranks european MEDICAL SCHOOLS SEPARATELY. but, there is a list that ranks eurpean UNIVERSITIES.

http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2004/Top 100 European Universities.htm

as far as for english speakers, i would have to agree with miklos. the best medical schools for english speakers would be found in the UK or ireland.
since, you're only starting college in the fall. i would advise you to try your best to get into a US MEDICAL SCHOOL. BEST OF LUCK. :cool:
 

TravisP

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Miklos said:
The Czech and Hungarian English language programs by comparison cost roughly US$10,000 a year in tuition.

This sounds really cheap compared to $40,000 - 50,000 a year which would be the average cost for a private school around here.

The U.S. residencie seems like alot to go through, so I don't know if its worth it. I saw somewhere that the KMU Medical school in poland prepares students for the U.S. residencie but I don't know if all European schools practice this.

-Thanks for the information!
 

TravisP

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I've been looking around at the Hungary Med schools and all their programs are 6 years? Why is it 6 years instead of 4 years?
 

Man In The Box

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Some U.S. med schools are 6 yr programs as well. You get an M.D. and B.A. simultaneously. I don't know for a fact, but I seem to recall hearing that European schools also combine undergraduate and medical education.
 

Loren

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The vast majority of medical schools in the UK combine undergraduate with medical education (three years "preclinical", two years "clinical" and a possible intercalated/research year in between), which I assume would be equivalent to the six year programs you've mentioned. I'm not sure how it compares to the US or Hungarian systems, though.
 

leorl

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In Europe, you don't have to earn an undergraduate degree prior to entering medical school. So people go into medicine straight out of secondary (high) school. This is why it's 6 years, because traditionally, medicine is broken into pre-clinical and clinical components. It may be like advanced medicine programs in the US (like NEOUCOM) where people go into medicine directly after high school - however, I don't think the structure is the same.
 
M

Miklos

Loren said:
The vast majority of medical schools in the UK combine undergraduate with medical education (three years "preclinical", two years "clinical" and a possible intercalated/research year in between), which I assume would be equivalent to the six year programs you've mentioned. I'm not sure how it compares to the US or Hungarian systems, though.

The sixth year in Hungary (and similar continental systems) equals the PRHO year in the British Isles. Difference is that the PRHO year is after the diploma in the British Isles and before the diploma in the 'continental' systems.

Miklos
 

ZipacnaFR

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Hello
I apologize for making sad English errors... I m young :D

Med schools in France are... not schools, but "Faculties"... dont know how to translate that idea... hummm... facts will do the job for me.

When you have your High scool diploma (we call that the Baccalaureat : first miscomprehension....), you can enter without any selection in Medicine School. The first year called "PCEM1" is a sick sad year of selection, only few students are allowed to enter in second year, artistically called... common, guess... PCEM2.
PCEM1 is common with Dentals, Midwifes and "Kinesitherapeutes", im guessing it s that you call Osteopaths.

Both PCEM 1 and 2 are focused on "fondamental sciences".

Then, you enter in...DCEM1. DCEM2. DCEM3. DCEM4. Logical...

At the end of DCEM4 (sixth year of Medecine), you have the National Classing Examination which... classes you for the Residency choice.

Second miscomprehension : French resident AREN'T doctors until they have finished their residency.
Third miscomprehension : "Residency" is often translated with "Résidanat". Thats wrong. Résidanat is the specific name of Family Medicine Residency. All others Residencies are called "Internat". In order to make the things more complicated, artist of bureaucracy have renominated Résidanat when they reformated it... now its called "Internat" of Family Medecine!

"Internat" of Family Medicine : 3 years
Some specialities : 4 years
Surgery, Radiology, Oncology, ... : 5 years
Some extremely specialised stuffs : 6 years.

Total : from 8 to 12 years.

Scolarity fees : 150 euros (150 dollars) the year!!!! Why? because in France you pay a LOT of taxes. I mean, 50% of your incomings! And I must add that this 150 euros just includ the scolarity. Lodging is expensive... But, there is a med school in every big town (>300.000 pop.).

Medical education :
- in PCEM1 : ahahah... just learning some biochemics stuff and praying we will be admitted!
- in PCEM2/DCEM1 we are "check-lists", little useless students who paralyses a Doctor 4hours a week in a service we choose. I think i can name this "preclinical".
- in DCEM2 to DCEM4 we are clinical students, it's unofficially called the "externat".
Then, we are residents, and NOT ALL "résidants" who are the Family Medicine ones...


Conclusion:
university : PCEM1/2 -> DCEM 1/2/3/4 -> no more listening a teacher
hospital : PCEM2/DCEM1 preclinical -> DCEM 2/3/4 clinical -> Residency -> You are a doctor.
 

FionaS

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Loren said:
The vast majority of medical schools in the UK combine undergraduate with medical education (three years "preclinical", two years "clinical" and a possible intercalated/research year in between), which I assume would be equivalent to the six year programs you've mentioned. I'm not sure how it compares to the US or Hungarian systems, though.
Basically right, only it's 2 years pre-clinical, followed by an optional intercalated year (which is usually also preclinical), followed by 3 years clinical.

The UK does now have 4 year gradute entry courses, which are usually 1 to 1.5 years preclinical and 2.5 to 3 years clincal.
 
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