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Tell Me About This Program: William Beaumont Royal Oak MI

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Josh1

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I've used the search and couldn't find any info on this program.
It is at a giant hospital with a lot of sub-specialties that must handle a lot of pathology given it's distance to detroit and it's surgical volume.

What do people think of this program? Anyone with any experience? Anybody interview there this year? Their website was pretty scant, it looks like all their anesthesiology is handled by a private practice group which I don't know if that's good or bad. Any residents there PM me!
 

RussianJoo

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the program is brand new. Currently there are only PGY-1's and CA-1's. The hospital is probably one of the nicest in the immediate Detroit area but all the really sick people, i.e. poor people without insurance who live in Detroit go to Henry Ford or DMC system. I think the volume of this hospital is far less when compared to Ford or DMC. The few medical students that rotated at all three hospitals or interviewed at those three liked Beaumont the best probably because of the nature of the program i.e. call and attendings and the fact that this hospital is the cleanest/nicest of the three. As for the program really I've heard mixed things, the attendings are nice but since they don't have a lot of experience with teaching residents don't really know how to supervise a resident or teach a resident, and some don't want to teach/supervise residents, but they're working on improving everything.

Oh and I am not a resident there, just met one or two attendings and 2 residents (pgy-1's) from there during the MSA. Yes a private group runs the program anesthesia just like at the other two anesthesia program in the Detroit area.
 

Josh1

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Well in terms of volume I know it's bigger by numbers in the national GME census that teaching hospitals fill out:

Henry Ford-
inpatient surgeries: 13,077
beds: 777

DMC-
inpatient surgeries: around 20,000 (for the COMBINED 7 hospitals in their system, making their daily volume low at any one hospital)
beds: 506 at the largest hospital (Harper Hutzel)

William Beaumont (one hospital)
Inpatient Surgeries: 35, 457
beds: 1,061

I didn't know the program was so new, thanks for the info. I don't know about their patient population but given that they're both listed as non-profit they probably have to fulfill the same requirements to get that listing and tax break (I'm not sure about this, just what my gut says).
Hope to hear from the newly minted CA1s, tell us the good and the bad or PM me I like to hear the info first hand!

Edit:
You can see the medicare/medicaid discharges to gauge the population as well. Beaumont has a little less than half the number of medicaid but 1.5x the number of medicare than henry ford.
 

RussianJoo

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hmm it doesn't look so big from the outside. the hospital is located in the nice suburbs of detroit, the other hospitals are inner city hospitals so the population will be different considering if you call for an ambulance they'll take you to the closest hospital. But the DMC hospitals are now for profit.
 

McGillGrad

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hmm it doesn't look so big from the outside. the hospital is located in the nice suburbs of detroit, the other hospitals are inner city hospitals so the population will be different considering if you call for an ambulance they'll take you to the closest hospital. But the DMC hospitals are now for profit.

It is a gigantic hospital, but yeah, it is in a nice area (for Detroit anyway).
It has a lot of volume.

As for Henry Ford, it isn't exactly in the inner city.

To the OP:
From what I have heard, the program is too new to have a culture yet. It is really up to the next few crops of residents to mould it.
 

KCBarbarossa

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As a resident at Beaumont just finishing up CA1 year, I'd like to set the record straight on a few things commented on. First, it's true that we're a new program. But, there are advantages to that. Regarding our attendings, the ones teaching residents have been selected to do so explicitly out of their interest in doing so. They volunteered out of an interest in teaching. Period. Not all members of the group teach residents (though we learn from them all frankly) as in not all have residents assigned to them during scheduled cases throughout the work week, although we can work with the others on call etc. So, it's not an "obligation" or an after thought (say to their research) as resident education may be to some attendings at a more established academic program. Case volumes are high at Beaumont, and we do a ton of regional, including a ridiculous number of peripheral blocks with indwelling catheters. The pace is FAST, to be sure, but I like it like that in that it really does teach you how to hustle and be efficient. Any PP dude/dudette will tell you how invaluable that is in the "real world". I'm biased, but I really think that our program will become very well respected and reasonably well known. It's a tough crowd out there and I realize there are many excellent programs in the country. I'm not naive to think that ours will develop a top rank anytime soon. This will take time, but I believe that it will happen as the word gets out relative to the attributes of our program. While we aren't an "inner city" program, we do indeed attract a diverse patient population and, let's face it, the general "health" of our nation basically guarantees high levels of acuity, probably anywhere you go. Our patient population is no different. So, to think of it as a "cush" program with healthy, elective surgical cases is a mistake. Sure, we get those too, but we get the trainwrecks as well. I'm happy to answer any specific questions anyone has out there. Like I said I don't have numbers handy, but they are available. It's just not a focus of mine given how busy we are and what few case deficiencies we arguably may have (pediatric zebra cases come to mind for us), but that applies to pretty much any program. Regards. Boy, that reads as one giant run-on sentence. Not sure what happened....
 

Gern Blansten

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I have met the PD from there a few times. From what I can tell, he is top notch. Don't know anything else about the program.
 

D P356

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Yes a private group runs the program anesthesia just like at the other two anesthesia program in the Detroit area.

Just a question. USF's anesthesia program was shut down, and a PP group ran it, I would guess they neglected the education aspect and utilized the resident labor. Ultimately, all programs use the resident labor, but resident development is what I'm curious about.

My point question is, would this program as well as any of the others in the Detroit area follow this or do they produce solid anesthesiologists?

Basically, PP is a business, so how focused are they concerning educating residents? Or was the USF program just a unique occurence?

Are these types of programs that one should generally avoid?


I don't know very much about this, so if anyone could please inform me, I would be appreciative. Thanks.
 

KCBarbarossa

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Just a question. USF's anesthesia program was shut down, and a PP group ran it, I would guess they neglected the education aspect and utilized the resident labor. Ultimately, all programs use the resident labor, but resident development is what I'm curious about.

My point question is, would this program as well as any of the others in the Detroit area follow this or do they produce solid anesthesiologists?

Basically, PP is a business, so how focused are they concerning educating residents? Or was the USF program just a unique occurence?

Are these types of programs that one should generally avoid?


I don't know very much about this, so if anyone could please inform me, I would be appreciative. Thanks.

For newer programs, producing 100% first pass board rates is important. So, any well ran (as ours is indeed) program will prioritize reasonable hours with protected reading time. Resident education is a priority. I'm not familiar with the circumstances of USF, but at our institution, the PP/academic attendings are very high quality. I believe there are a few reasons that the Beaumont group has been able to recruit/attract the caliber of attendings that they have. First, it's a successful group, financially. So, they pay very well. Therefore they can be very selective in whom they choose to employ and enter into a partnership track. Another factor (I'm speculating) is likely that because they are a big group, their individual call responsibilities are reasonable to the point where they don't feel they are giving up their personal lives for the "job". This plays into moral, and so we just don't have the "malignancy" that I personally have seen at other places... And happy attendings means happy residents. They are well respected in the hospital system, in general, and with the surgeons specifically. Surely personality differences/nuances may come into play from time to time, but as a general rule, the relationships between our attendings and the surgical attendings are sound. A self fulfilling prophecy given that they are overwhelmingly a bunch of deft professionals. The leadership at our program is indeed top notch. Both our PD and Chairman, not to mention others within leadership positions are very much on top of their game. Generally, we have relatively young leadership which isn't in itself good or bad, but from what I've seen elsewhere, during med school rotations and on the interview trail, some of the older PD's and Chairpeople perhaps should have stepped aside a long time ago........ Let's say our leadership is anything but asleep at the wheel. This is very obvious when you spend time in our program, but admittedly you'd need to be IN our program to fully grasp this aspect. Our PD is full of energy and is a great guy. Anyway, choosing residency's is a very personal choice. For me, I couldn't be happier. We get great cases, and lots of them. We work with non-malignant attendings who are fun to work with and have a ton to offer in terms of teaching and insight. I have fun at work, for the most part. Call is beyond reasonable and our hours are appropriate. One other thing that just came across my mind. We have a nice balance, I think, of attendings who practice more like PP folks, and then those whom are more "academic". It's a nice mix. The PP driven people do indeed teach you about productivity (anyone who says this is NOT important is kidding you or doesn't know what he/she is talking about) and efficiency. While, the very next day we may be running a drip or using an anesthetic "just because" we want to see the pharmacology/physiology of a drug which perhaps isn't NECESSARY or used all that often. This keeps it interesting.
 

ERRES2288

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Bump..any new info on this program? I believe the private group got bought out by american anesthesiology?
 

GA8314

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This program is a behemoth for surgical volume. Yes, they are now Mednax/AA. I went to med school with two of their grads.
 

Masseter Spasm

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I did a multiple residency rotations at Beaumont 15 years ago (surgery, anesthesia, etc.). At that time there was no anesthesia residency program. Beaumont is an extremely busy hospital which is located in the nicest area of Detroit. (This is no joke.) It is the best facility in Detroit for most types of care. The residency program is relatively new but will grow over time. I have met some of the faculty at meetings in the last few years and they seem dedicated to education. If you are interested in the area, I would recommend looking into their program. Only concern is that Beaumont was/is affiliated with a nurse anesthesia program (Oakland University). Having both a residency and nurse anesthesia program can create some conflicts.
 

ERRES2288

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Thanks for the info. Anyone else on how it compares to Henry Ford? I'm assuming Umich is far superior.
 

GA8314

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I would not call UMich "far superior". I know people from both. UMich is a good program. The regional at Beaumont is basically a mini-fellowship. It's that prolific. I'm not sure about the regional at UMich. Beaumont doesn't have the "zebra" cases that UMich has. The peds at UMich would be better for sure. Zebra cardiac (but not the volume) at UMich is more. But, UMich has CT Anes fellows and Beaumont doesn't and the folks I know from Beaumont had excellent TEE training (no competing with fellows).

Henry Ford (I also know folks from there and rotated through there as a resident) offers great clinical training too, but the residents weren't quite as happy then. LOTS of clinical work. Lacking academics (this was over 6 years ago, however). I think UMich probably has the best academics of them all (didactics etc.).

All 3 programs offer excellent training. Let's face it, however. Excellent anesthesiologists have very little to do with the program at which they trained. There are awkward fumble f.ckers with mediocre social/communication skills and the inability to be assertive when necessary from the "best" of programs. And the worst for that matter.
 

Wiscoblue

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When Beaumont Hospital signed up with Oakland University, the entire group of Anesthesiologists became faculty. Majority of them are a product of the Umich residency program. Oakland went and hired a couple of Profs who are also from the Umich program.

Beaumont has a wealth of clinical case material and the opportunity for learning is tremendous. Unfortunately most of the 'faculty' are there by default rather than by choice. The place is overrun by CRNAs and SRNAs. Didactic training is seriously lacking at the resident level. You will graduate your residency and be trained just like a Crna.

Umich wins it hands down.


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GA8314

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When Beaumont Hospital signed up with Oakland University, the entire group of Anesthesiologists became faculty. Majority of them are a product of the Umich residency program. Oakland went and hired a couple of Profs who are also from the Umich program.

Beaumont has a wealth of clinical case material and the opportunity for learning is tremendous. Unfortunately most of the 'faculty' are there by default rather than by choice. The place is overrun by CRNAs and SRNAs. Didactic training is seriously lacking at the resident level. You will graduate your residency and be trained just like a Crna.

Umich wins it hands down.


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This is absolutely not true from what I know.
 

Agast

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I remember the first year they were recruiting residents. I had a really stellar 4th year student that I recommend we rank highly, and then she ranked Beaumont #1 because they told her she would be able to direct her own learning experience and pick her own rotations. Her dream at that time was to do pediatric anesthesia and I wonder if she ever got to go. That's the problem with a no-name program, if you're going for the competitive fellowship programs it may be harder to get interviews and match. So I would ask them during your residency interview how much of their graduating class went straight to private practice vs. going into fellowship, specifically Cardiac or Pain which I think are the 2 most competitive specialties.
 
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GA8314

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So you agree that the rest of it is true then?


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The people who teach have expressed an interest in teaching. While there are relatively few residents for case loads, and thus it's true there are plenty of CRNA's, that can also be a good thing in that the residents aren't abused as the "work force". They get clear preference over SRNA's as well. I am positive that, for example, residents are getting more hearts than they even want, and SRNA "competition" for cases is simply not an issue.

It's true that many programs struggle with great didactics. But, for sure, you will not be trained to function as a CRNA, but rather a physician.

The group has been a part of Mednax now for probably about 5-6 years, and I can not speak to the morale of the rank and file as a result but I can imagine it may have taken a hit, but that is something I've heard from most of Mednax's acquisitions in MI.
 

LuckySeven

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I remember the first year they were recruiting residents. I had a really stellar 4th year student that I recommend we rank highly, and then she ranked Beaumont #1 because they told her she would be able to direct her own learning experience and pick her own rotations. Her dream at that time was to do pediatric anesthesia and I wonder if she ever got to go. That's the problem with a no-name program, if you're going for the competitive fellowship programs it may be harder to get interviews and match. So I would ask them during your residency interview how much of their graduating class went straight to private practice vs. going into fellowship, specifically Cardiac or Pain which I think are the 2 most competitive specialties.

Hi Agast. I graduated in the Class of 2016 (the third class to go through). The first class had two female residents, both did peds fellowships (one at Hopkins, one at Ohio State), and then both came back and joined Beaumont as staff anesthesiologists. That first class also had one guy who did dual ICU and cardiac fellowships (both at Cleveland Clinic I believe), and one guy who did a pain fellowship. One joined a private practice and the remaining member of that class joined an academic practice without having completed a fellowship.

The next year, two people did fellowships (one cardiac, one pain) and the remainder went directly into practice.

Of my class, four of us did fellowships (one peds, one pain, two ICU; one at Northwestern in Chicago and one at Ohio State). The others went into private practice. Several members of the class are planning to come back and join Beaumont staff. Of those who return to Beaumont after fellowship, most have family ties in the area.

I also ranked Beaumont number one for residency; the ability to self-direct my experience also appealed to me. The current residents are still shaping the program, rotations get added or taken away every year based on feedback. Outside rotations are allowed. Didactics were a little weak, especially at first, but were making progress toward the end of my residency. Written board pass rate is good.

Case volume is ridiculous; you learn to be quite efficient. There are a lot of cardiac, thoracic, neuro, and vascular cases to do. Residents always get priority for those. Peds is mainly bread and butter (I did an outside elective to broaden my exposure during residency) but there is a new-ish craniofacial surgeon who really brings the syndromic kids in, and Beaumont also has one of the world's premier pediatric retinal surgery programs, so we got a good mix of complex premature patients transferred there specifically for eyes. There are no pediatric cardiac or transplant services though. OB volume is quite high.

Regional anesthesia is one area where the program really shines. I believe my classmates and I averaged about 400-600 blocks over four months of straight up regional experience. I felt like the pain rotations were really strong too.

The program director is super charismatic and really sold the program to me when I was a medical student. He does a nice job of making things happen for his residents, getting those who want to be involved in research involved, and protecting the residents from occasional single-attending ire and/ or political drama.

There weren't many times I had to work a weekend other than liver call. Also I went to ASA all three CA years. Despite not working weekends, your case numbers are high due to busy weekdays and higher clinical efficiency than many other centers (faster turnovers and surgeons, et al). I would pick the program again.
 
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Dr.Jekyll75

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So id hate to revive an old thread but does anyone have stats on this program? like step wise? DO % in class ?
 

Dr.Jekyll75

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Great surgery program.....as an anesthesiology resident that can be good and bad
Thats what ive heard as well. But i was wondering if you had any inside info on the program, i spent close to an hour creeping around the internet but cant find much on stats. or residents or any of that
 
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