Oak Hill Anesthesia Residency

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On the ACGME website the HCA Florida Healthcare/USF Morsani College of
Medicine GME Oak Hill Hospital Anesthesiology Residency program is currently listed as accreditation withdrawn effective 6/30/2024
Anyone know what happened?
 
The other problem is these programs tend to match bottom of the barrel applicants that likely wouldn’t have matched anywhere else.

When I was in training we picked up 2 residents from 2 different closed programs and they were just about the worst residents I have ever seen. They’re out in practice somewhere now and I feel bad for the patients.
 
It has seemed to be true over the last 2 and a half decades. By the time the ACGME shuts down a program (takes a few years of warnings), the quality of residents that they have at the time of shut down tends to be well below average, as noted above. No super competitive medical student with lots of choices is going to go to a program that is circling the drain. Then, it becomes an act of charity for the other programs to accept these residents into their programs.
It should be expected that they will be VERY far behind after training in a bad program (for 1-3 years) with little to no support after they started the program as a below average candidate. It is a recipe that should be fairly predictable. There will be some diamonds in the rough, but I think it plays out as expected far more often than not. The accepting program then has the burden of accepting that they will have a resident that will likely struggle to pass boards etc and that will hurt their own program's board pass rates, which is a major factor in how a program is evaluated by the ACGME. Those failures will take 5 years to cycle off of the ABA/RRC's books, so taking 1 resident to a mid size program can drop your pass rate from 100% to 90% real quick. If they take 2 or more, watch out. Bigger programs can absorb more before the hit is noticeable, but the program director's pain will be similar.
 
There are 2 populations of orphaned residents. One set comes from reputable programs where the entire academic hospital shuts down a la Hahnemann. The bulk of these residents are probably not below average. The second set are probably as @Gern Blansten describes. Unfortunately at least some of the Oak Hill residents may be in the 2nd group.
 
nimbus said:
There are 2 populations of orphaned residents. One set comes from reputable programs where the entire academic hospital shuts down a la Hahnemann. The bulk of these residents are probably not below average. The second set are probably as @Gern Blansten describes. Unfortunately at least some of the Oak Hill residents may be in the 2nd group.
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We can only hope that the increased competitiveness of anesthesia means that even residents at the bottom barrel residencies are better than their historical counterparts.
 
vector2 said:
We can only hope that the increased competitiveness of anesthesia means that even residents at the bottom barrel residencies are better than their historical counterparts.
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What exactly makes a bottom barrel resident? I mean the usual things we look at (board scores, clinical grades, class rank) to distinguish the hierarchy are fairly useless when looking at professional abilities.

Outside of professionalism issues (real ones) or just gross incompetence and not teachable, most residents are kind of similar (and the top programs are by no means free of these issues).
 
ucladoc2b said:
I mean the usual things we look at (board scores, clinical grades, class rank) to distinguish the hierarchy are fairly useless when looking at professional abilities.
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Board scores and grades don't tell the whole story, but in my experience as an attending at a training institution for the last 5+ years, there is certainly a correlation between scoring well on those things and being able to learn and incorporate the required knowledge base of the full scope of anesthesiology. Plus, the better learner / test taker you are, the easier it is spend a significant amount of time on the practical portions of anesthesia rather than worrying if you're going to bomb the ITE or fail ABA Basic.

ucladoc2b said:
Outside of professionalism issues (real ones) or just gross incompetence and not teachable, most residents are kind of similar (and the top programs are by no means free of these issues).
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I suspect residents who had professionalism issues / work ethic issues / gross incompetence noted on their MSPE are much more likely to match at an HCA residency than at a solid mid-tier state university program.
 
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This isn’t a “real” USF residency program. USF at TGH lost its program ~2008 for multiple publicized issues that you can look up.

I believe they are opening a new residency program now at TGH/Moffitt/VA. USF has the resources and variety to be a strong program, but personally I would aim towards stronger and more established programs.
 
Gator7 said:
The other problem is these programs tend to match bottom of the barrel applicants that likely wouldn’t have matched anywhere else.

When I was in training we picked up 2 residents from 2 different closed programs and they were just about the worst residents I have ever seen. They’re out in practice somewhere now and I feel bad for the patients.
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So why would your program graduate these residents? That’s where the problem starts. If they suck why is it OK to pass them?
 
hopefulgasman said:
Lmao because no program wants to say their resident graduation rate is 50%….that’ll make them so attractive to subsequent applicants….
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How about actually work with the residents and make them competent instead of unleashing them to the unsuspecting public?? This is some Crap. And yet some residents get put thru the ringer over some BS that has nothing to do with competence.
 
hopefulgasman said:
And you wonder why some programs get shut down, placed on probation, lose their accreditation? This is real life.
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Real life? I thought it was a video game. So please pardon my ignorance there.
What the hell is this supposed to mean? If they need to shut them down shut them down.
What they don’t need to be doing is graduating incompetent people and causing damage to the unsuspecting public.
 
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Some of the community fake/academics places throw ca-1 to the wolves literally put them on call (with more senior resident) in the first 2 weeks. It’s insane.

You scar some of them.

I personally am glad I got 1:1 Senior attending MD my first full month decades ago the first 30 days. It’s the proper way to train. I know the pressures of production are incredible these days.

We took “late calls” the second month.

We finally took OR calls the third month.

It’s not like that these days. They are putting ca-1 at these hca facilities on call very early. They will pick up bad habits and have to learn to fend for themselves.
 
aneftp said:
Some of the community fake/academics places throw ca-1 to the wolves literally put them on call (with more senior resident) in the first 2 weeks. It’s insane.

You scar some of them.

I personally am glad I got 1:1 Senior attending MD my first full month decades ago the first 30 days. It’s the proper way to train. I know the pressures of production are incredible these days.

We took “late calls” the second month.

We finally took OR calls the third month.

It’s not like that these days. They are putting ca-1 at these hca facilities on call very early. They will pick up bad habits and have to learn to fend for themselves.
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Just curious, what would you consider some common anesthesia bad habits? Now I'm wondering how many of these I have subconsciously picked up as a relatively new attending.
 
Coffee PRN said:
Just curious, what would you consider some common anesthesia bad habits? Now I'm wondering how many of these I have subconsciously picked up as a relatively new attending.
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Watching a movie or soccer match on your iPad during a case?
Stashing a sandwich in the bottom drawer of the anesthesia cart?
Peeing in an empty saline bottle during a long overnight case?
Using your hot coffee to defog the end of the fiber optic bronchoscope?
 
Some bad habits that I see other Attendings are

Not preoxygenating prior to induction

Not putting a label on syringes

Not given oxygen during transport

Having the work place a mess, feel bad for the tech that has to cleanup for them

Not wearing gloves for intubation and aline.

It’s a combination of laziness , rushing , or being overconfident
 
Simba1711 said:
Some bad habits that I see other Attendings are

Not preoxygenating prior to induction

Not putting a label on syringes

Not given oxygen during transport

Having the work place a mess, feel bad for the tech that has to cleanup for them

Not wearing gloves for intubation and aline.

It’s a combination of laziness , rushing , or being overconfident
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Not putting monitors on prior to induction, or removing them prior to extubation.
 
Gern Blansten said:
Watching a movie or soccer match on your iPad during a case?
Stashing a sandwich in the bottom drawer of the anesthesia cart?
Peeing in an empty saline bottle during a long overnight case?
Using your hot coffee to defog the end of the fiber optic bronchoscope?
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Hey hey hey!! We gotta eat!!! In some places stashing food under equipment is the only way!!!
 
Fleur87 said:
Hi, sorry to revive this thread.
I'll be starting medical school at USF later this month. I'm interested in anesthesiology and I'm worried about everything I've heard about their anesthesiology program.

In short, my questions are as follows:

  1. Is this something I should be concerned about?
  2. Does anyone have any experience with the Vanderbilt summer medical student anesthesiology research program? I am planning on applying but I recognize it is probably uber competitive (not to mention I'll need a letter of rec from a med school instructor, before the Dec. 31st deadline. I would not be able to apply for the program for summer 2026 due to USF's academic calendar.
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As of a few years ago, USF anesthesiology seemed to be practically run by the CRNAs. If you find this to be true, it would make a new program especially miserable.
 
A Deep Breath said:
As of a few years ago, USF anesthesiology seemed to be practically run by the CRNAs. If you find this to be true, it would make a new program especially miserable.
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I believe that is a prime reason the program was shut down many years ago (15-20?). The allegations included CRNAs getting the cases they wanted and residents only got the leftovers. Plus, the CRNAs would get breaks and take care of each other but no one looked out for the residents. Faculty / surgeons and CRNAs were longtime friends whose families vacationed together, so they got some favoritism. Residents felt like outsiders, as it was described on this forum long ago. It sounded miserable.
 
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Gern Blansten said:
I believe that is a prime reason the program was shut down many years ago (15-20?). The allegations included CRNAs getting the cases they wanted and residents only got the leftovers. Plus, the CRNAs would get breaks and take care of each other but no one looked out for the residents. Faculty / surgeons and CRNAs were longtime friends whose families vacationed together, so they got some favoritism. Residents felt like outsiders, as it was described on this forum long ago. It sounded miserable.
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Shut them down!!! I believe there is one that I learned on here that is now on probation for the same BS. It was in the NE and someone was complaining of almost the exact same thing. Either they are on probation or getting shut down. Can't remember but it's one of these corporate run entities. Let me look it up actually.
 
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