Tell me again for the last time... (PBL question)

[krevelli]

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Ok, so there are two schools I'm deciding between. One only does PBL, the other is *gradually implementing* PBL (aren't they all?) but the truth is, PBL kinda scares me. I just like the idea of having a structured lecture (no matter how boring) but then again, I also like the idea of having time to decide myself what to prioritize. What were your experiences with PBL? Those of you who are in PBL programs, would you have it any other way? Any of you who DON'T like it?

 

[jbish]

I'm in a program that has a little bit of PBL and I dread each and every small group. I really enjoy the structured lectures. For this reason I'm glad I chose the "implementing some aspects of PBL" school rather than an "all PBL all the time" school. It gives you a taste of both so if you learn best one way or the other (most people do) you at least get some time with what you like and some time grinding your teeth and checking your watch.

 

[citygirl]

I like PBL far better than sitting in a structured lecture all day. We have a mix of both and I like the balance. Of course, we generally have class, including all lab, lecture and small group work, for only four hours a day and then we are free to do whatever. "Whatever" is usually study, but this lets everyone study as much or as little as is good for each individual. I can't say how it would be to do PBL all day (I don't even have medical school all day).

 

[DW]

again, i must ask, what school "only" does pbl? 😕

 

[jbish]

McMaster I believe is only PBL.

 

[Buck Strong]

Get rid of case, get rid of case...oh, for the love of god, get rid of case. Everytime the number of PBL hours increases, Step 1 scores go down, how is that good for anyone??? Plus, I think i might throw my harrisons at someone next time I hear, "let's go over our learning objectives."

 

[Samoa]

Hah! Learning objectives are a fact of life, PBL or no PBL. I really enjoy our PBLs, but I wouldn't want that to be our primary mode of learning. One or two people would end up experts on everything, and anyone who wanted to could skate by without doing much at all.

 

[krevelli]

T H A N K S! I just visited a med school that was *almost* entirely PBL. Some kids I spoke to were raving on about it whereas others weren't so sure... The consensus (inside and outside the school) was actually that the students who graduated from this particular school were much more well-suited for the clinical part and that they felt that they had a better grasp on what they HAD learned. The only difference, one guy said, is in quantity. Learn less, retain more, being something of the catchphrase around there.

What I don't get about PBL (and the poster who mentioned Step 1 scores kind of touched on this) is how you know you're studying the *right* thing. I mean, it feels like you're out there doing your own thang, checking up books and working with other people - but what if you're completely out there? I don't know - the idea of having a little more "free time" so that I can decide how I want to spend it is great but I'm not so sure.

Does anyone know how McMaster people do on step 1?

 

[Samoa]

Well, there are all these books, see, published by NMS and BRS and First Aid etc., telling you what to learn for the boards. It's a little cottage industry. So, theoretically, you could just skip the whole first two years, study those books, and do relatively decently on the boards. The only thing stopping you is NBME's requirement that you do in fact have to be enrolled in a medical school in order to sit for the exams.

 

[Buck Strong]

I'm definitely going through MS2 with an eye on FirstAid to see what we're getting and what we need to learn on our own time. The problem is that we skim alot of what's going to be on the boards, but go way too much in detail for the diseases in our cases. I'd love to read over the stuff we don't cover in case, but we spend so much time in case, or preparing for case that we don't have much free time to study whatever we feel is important. Plus, case is graded for participation, so it's not like we can blow it off to study other stuff. Personally, I think case is a good way to supplement lecture, but when lecture is built around case, then you definitely miss out on alot.

 

[Samoa]

Yeah, it definitely leaves big holes in your education.

 

[periodista]

Mercer is strictly PBL with optional "resource sessions" with professors that the students schedule. The resource sessions are just like lectures and we average about 1-2 per week. Classes (they're called "group") are MWF from 9-12. They are very structured in that you have a set number of medical cases to finish before the end of the six-week phase and you have primary and secondary readings assigned for the cases. It's not like you have to go find whatever it is you're going to study. There is one tutor (teacher) assigned to each group and he/she is as involved as he/she wants to be. I've had one who basically sat back and let the group do everything, one who was a little more involved and a third who was very hands on and directive. I liked him the best.

The curriculum is integrated in that while the first phase was biochemistry-oriented we also has histology and micro and pharm and path etc. Same for all the phases (embryo was next phase but had all the other disciplines represented; same with host defense [immunology], which we just finished). The PBL program is not for everybody because you don't have material given to you in lectures. You have to do the reading and then come to group and discuss it. Sometimes that's good because the best way to learn often times is to have to explain it to someone else. That let's you know immmediately what you know, what you're fuzzy on and what you don't know. We also do a lot of board work, which is a good way to remember things. But PBL can be frustrating too because the tutors sometimes may not know the material with much depth because they specialize in one discipline and you're covering another discipline (ie not all the tutors are experts in the particular discipline being highlighted in that phase, for eg immuno was our last phase but only 2 or 3 of the 8 tutors are immunologists). Also frustrating: none of the other 5 or 6 students in your group may know the material real well, so any questions that you have and that the tutor can't answer are left that way until someone (tutor or student) hunts down the appropriate expert/authority and comes back with an answer.

I'm not still not sure which method I prefer. There's something to be said about having the material given to you in lectures, though that can be awfully boring. I can honestly say I've hardly ever been bored in group and the three hours go by very quickly.

From what I understand Mercer does real well on the boards and everyone from the dean on down says it's because of the integrated case method and PBL. I have no way of knowing independently. Sorry to go on so long. Hope this helps.