Tell me your secret: How you got into Med School with a low MCAT?

[siinew]

The only person I've heard who got into med school here with a 24 was someone whose dad knew people on the admissions committee. What was your GPA and scienceGPA breakdown?

You don't get out much then, apparently. Lots of folks get into med school with an MCAT in that range. With the OP's background and GPA, she most definitely can do so as well. She won't get into a K-Med wunderkind, wet-behind-the-ears school, for sure, but as a quick example, if she were a TX resident (but I don't think she is), she'd be a good candidate for UTSA. They like people with her background, and don't even interview the 3.9 GPA, 40 MCAT types. They are definitely not alone in that regard either...I believe it's a growing trend, in fact.

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[gujuDoc]

The only person I've heard who got into med school here with a 24 was someone whose dad knew people on the admissions committee. What was your GPA and scienceGPA breakdown?

I had friends get in with a 24 in the state of Florida. In Florida that is the minimum required to get in. No these people didn't have internal connections. They were people with strong GPAs to make up for subpar MCAT scores or they had something in terms of experience. The girl who is now a 3rd year at Miami (or should I say woman since she's older) was a nurse with tons of clinical experience prior to med school. She had a postbac GPA of 3.9. Another person I know got in with a 25 and 23 to FSU COM but they are relatively new and so don't have super high averages.

Also knew a few with 26s who got in despite low Verbals because they were strong in other areas. One of them got into RFU and USF, the other was waitlisted postintervew at Meharry and got into USF. Both those cases were a few years ago. They are now MS 2's.

 

[NRAI2001]

I got in with a 24. I don't see what the big deal is. I managed to get through medical school, I did great on the USMLE, and I matched at my first choice.

The people on this board only make up a small number of the med student population. There may not be many people with 24's on here, but that doesn't mean there aren't any overall. Should you take the MCAT again? Yes, but everything else on your application sounds great. I'd go ahead and apply this year if you can afford it. The worst thing that can happen is that you won't get in.

Did you have a really high gpa? What do you think set you apart from other people?

What med school did you go to?

 

[Monkeygirl]

Wow, you guys are amazing!! Thank you so much to everyone who replied to my thread. I was at a conference for the last 5 days and just saw the responses yesterday.

To answer some of your questions, I am a California resident. I wish I lived in Florida, because FSU would be a great option for me. (as it stands they only accept in-state students).

I'm not sure if I mentioned in an earlier post that I have already submitted my secondaries to schools. Now I am waiting for any response from schools. What should I do while I'm waiting? I was thinking about sending a letter expressing my huge interest in my number one school.... do you think it is too early because I have not received an interview yet? (I might not at all though and I want to get a letter in before they have the chance to reject me). I have a few friends on the faculty at this particular school--should I ask them to call or write to the admissions committee on my behalf? I feel pretty weird about doing it-- and I'm not sure how I would ask. If I do go through with it, do you think that I should have them specifically bring up the low MCAT and argue that in spite of it, I would still be a good doctor-- or just avoid it? Has anyone had experience interviewing with a low MCAT score? Did you bring it up or not? How did your interviewer react? Were you accepted to the school?

Thanks everyone for your help. It means so much to me.

 

[lovelybereagrad]

Do not give up hope! I got a 24 on my MCAT, and got into an out-of-state allopathic school! I think the key is to have enough other stuff going for you. It sounds like you have a lot of clinical experience, which I found to be truly golden on my application. Comparing yourself and your 24 score to the typical undergrad who might have a 30 MCAT and a kick-ass GPA is like comparing apples to oranges. At least at my school, more value is placed on the non-traditional applicant who has done a bit more with life than just ace premed courses. Obviously, this score does make it a bit more challening, but dont' let people tell you that DO or Caribbean is your only option! Hang in there!!

 

[Babylonian]

your best bet to get into allopathic medical school. Is to apply to schools that have decelerated programs, i think there is a couple in texas. After you submit your application with your low mcat, send them a letter telling them you want to be consider for the decelerated program.....shhh. just another scheme.

mcat does not correlate with med school grades or uslme. I know a few dermatology residents who did this..They spent another year meaning they split the first year into two and one did research while the other wrote music. They actually both matched into the same dermatology program. The music gal was asked why she decelerated by the residency director of her current program. She said her mcat was below the average, but then she said that she wrote music to pay her way through school during her free time. He laughed and told her that was clever.

 

[Northerner]

mcat does not correlate with med school grades or uslme.

Really? Why didn't you tell us earlier!?! Someone should tell the AAMC researchers who seem to show it does...

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/basco001.htm

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/huff001.htm

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/jones005.htm

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/julia001.pdf

And this is a pre-allo thread. Or an MCAT forum thread.

 

[Wizard of Oz]

Really? Stop the presses! Someone should tell the AAMC researchers who seem to show it does...

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/basco001.htm

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/huff001.htm

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/jones005.htm

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/julia001.pdf

Thank you for providing some research on the topic! I got lambasted on this thread for reiterating what adcoms say.

 

[NRAI2001]

Thank you for providing some research on the topic! I got lambasted on this thread for reiterating what adcoms say.

Even if mcat doesnt necessarily determine if you will do well in med school or usmle, you still need a decent score to get into med school in the first place.

 

[Orthodoc40]

The OP says Spanish is a breeze for him/her. Applying PR makes sense - figure out which ones you have a shot at and add them to your AMCAS app today!

 

[Orthodoc40]

dude i can see where you are coming from and how one might see it as a daunting task to pick up spanish..... but speaking from personal experience we have at least 5 guys in our class whose spanish wouldnt hold up at taco bell. anybody who comes down has their first two years (all books/lecture notes/tests in english) to beef up their spanish before going to clinics 3rd year. its actually kinda cool b/c your native puerto rican classmates also want to help you with your spanish and in return you can help them with their english for residency. anyways my bad if i came off as a dick, but i just wanted to shed some light on the subject . i'm just suprised more people dont apply over here considering how hard it is to get into med school nowadays. just wanted to let people know that its definitely doable even with moderate fluency.......

Okay which PR school are you at? I was told by some PR students that they all require 2 years of Spanish in college?!!?

 

[Orthodoc40]

Really? Why didn't you tell us earlier!?! Someone should tell the AAMC researchers who seem to show it does...

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/basco001.htm

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/huff001.htm

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/jones005.htm

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/julia001.pdf

And this is a pre-allo thread. Or an MCAT forum thread.

Yes and we all know how unbiased researches can be when they are funded by the organization that puts out the test in the first place.

 

[Northerner]

Yes and we all know how unbiased researches can be when they are funded by the organization that puts out the test in the first place.

Yeah, you're probably right.

It's probably a big conspiracy. In fact, I doubt anything predicts how good of a physician you'll be. How you'll perform in your medical school education. How well you'll reflect on the school. How much of an asset you'll be as a student and alumnus. There is absolutely no correlation between performance on a standardized pre-med extrance exam and any measurable part of medical school at all. They should probably just take our word for it that we'll work hard and do well. That's a reasonable way to differentiate between people. Whether they used "really" or "extremely" before the word "enthusiastic" in their essay and how many volunteer hours they logged wheeling alcoholics to cabs outside at their local ER.

But let me get this straight - it is basically your contention that 1) the MCAT does not predict anything worthwhile about potential medical students, 2) admissions committees at every school in the U.S. are either aware of this and perpetuating a lie or are unaware of your insight and blindly going along with the flock, 3) the AAMC knows about how people like you have caught on to their little scam and have published extensive sketchy biased research to counter anti-MCAT dissonance, and thus 4) people who score low on the MCAT should basically be considered equally with those who score high.

Instead of trying this line of reasoning, wouldn't it just make a little more sense to just study for the damned thing like everyone else?

 

[gujuDoc]

thanks for your insights. I really appreciate it.

My science GPA is 3.71. My MCAT was 8,8,8,R. I took it also in April and got 7V, 7P, 9B, S. I was sick the first time, so I thought that's why I did so poorly, but the truth is now that I just can't take that test. I just hard when one day's test counts for as much or more than years of hard work in class and volunteering.

I know a few people on ad committees. I'm not sure if I should try and talk with them. I want to get in on my own merit, even though I want it so badly.

Anyone else have any suggestions? thanks everyone

The bad news is your score isn't high. The good news is that it at the very least meets the cutoffs for several schools in the states.

Its going to be harder to get in but there's still a sliver of hope with the rest of your profile being strong, provided that the rest of your profile is indeed strong.

I'd apply broadly and see what happens. If you don't get in then come up with back ups like considering doing an SMP program or retaking the test.

 

[Dr. McDreamy]

Yeah, you're probably right.

It's probably a big conspiracy. In fact, I doubt anything predicts how good of a physician you'll be. How you'll perform in your medical school education. How well you'll reflect on the school. How much of an asset you'll be as a student and alumnus. There is absolutely no correlation between performance on a standardized pre-med extrance exam and any measurable part of medical school at all. They should probably just take our word for it that we'll work hard and do well. That's a reasonable way to differentiate between people. Whether they used "really" or "extremely" before the word "enthusiastic" in their essay and how many volunteer hours they logged wheeling alcoholics to cabs outside at their local ER.

But let me get this straight - it is basically your contention that 1) the MCAT does not predict anything worthwhile about potential medical students, 2) admissions committees at every school in the U.S. are either aware of this and perpetuating a lie or are unaware of your insight and blindly going along with the flock, 3) the AAMC knows about how people like you have caught on to their little scam and have published extensive sketchy biased research to counter anti-MCAT dissonance, and thus 4) people who score low on the MCAT should basically be considered equally with those who score high.

Instead of trying this line of reasoning, wouldn't it just make a little more sense to just study for the damned thing like everyone else?

hahaha. i couldn't agree more. i can't stand people whining about standardized tests and rationalizing their scores. jesus.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Yeah, you're probably right.

It's probably a big conspiracy. In fact, I doubt anything predicts how good of a physician you'll be. How you'll perform in your medical school education. How well you'll reflect on the school. How much of an asset you'll be as a student and alumnus. There is absolutely no correlation between performance on a standardized pre-med extrance exam and any measurable part of medical school at all. They should probably just take our word for it that we'll work hard and do well. That's a reasonable way to differentiate between people. Whether they used "really" or "extremely" before the word "enthusiastic" in their essay and how many volunteer hours they logged wheeling alcoholics to cabs outside at their local ER.

But let me get this straight - it is basically your contention that 1) the MCAT does not predict anything worthwhile about potential medical students, 2) admissions committees at every school in the U.S. are either aware of this and perpetuating a lie or are unaware of your insight and blindly going along with the flock, 3) the AAMC knows about how people like you have caught on to their little scam and have published extensive sketchy biased research to counter anti-MCAT dissonance, and thus 4) people who score low on the MCAT should basically be considered equally with those who score high.

Instead of trying this line of reasoning, wouldn't it just make a little more sense to just study for the damned thing like everyone else?

How irrational is it to look at these 'studies' with a skeptical eye? Of course AAMC wants everyone to see the validity of the MCAT, why wouldn't they try to prove it is a valid predictor of USMLE scores? There's nothing wrong with realizing where the information is coming from and the investment they have in the results. Geech. Did I say, or imply, they were completely INvalid?! No, I didn't. (And yah, apparently AAMC was under fire for the validity of the MCAT when they did this research, if you look into it.)

It also is reasonable to consider the fact that the MCAT and USMLE are completely different types of tests. You have a country full of people of varying science backgrounds taking the MCAT. Then you get a country full of people who have all studied essentially the same materials for the USMLE. Someone with a weaker science background may not do well on the MCAT, but get them into a medical school where they are learning the same stuff as everyone else, why is it unreasonable to think they can now do very well on the USMLE? It is hardly an outrageous suggestion.

 

[Northerner]

It also is reasonable to consider the fact that the MCAT and USMLE are completely different types of tests. You have a country full of people of varying science backgrounds taking the MCAT. Then you get a country full of people who have all studied essentially the same materials for the USMLE. Someone with a weaker science background may not do well on the MCAT, but get them into a medical school where they are learning the same stuff as everyone else, why is it unreasonable to think they can now do very well on the USMLE? It is hardly an outrageous suggestion.

Yes, they may be different kinds of standardized tests, but they're both still that - standardized tests. So if nothing else, the fact that a correlation exists between the two suggests that people who do well on the MCAT are good test-takers (who don't complain of "test anxiety" or some other such thing) and good test-takers have a better chance of doing well on the USMLE.

No one is saying someone cannot do poorly on the MCAT and then do well on the USMLE. But schools are given the task to grab a large sample size over their many years admitting students and producing USMLE takers. We're not talking about exceptions - whether Suzy Wilkins from Omaha who had a cold the day of the test and was PMSing and had a fight with her boyfriend and whose undergrad physics class didn't cover conductors and accidentally mis-bubbled 7 questions on her verbal section has an equal chance to do well as her friend who didn't have a bad day and did 5 points better. We're talking about statistics. We're talking about whether people who get in with 24's tend to get 200's and people who get in with 30's tend to get 225's, for example. They do. Can you blame them for playing the odds? They have their pick of the litter, might as well cover their bases.

 

[RxnMan]

Yes, they may be different kinds of standardized tests, but they're both still that - standardized tests. So if nothing else, the fact that a correlation exists between the two suggests that people who do well on the MCAT are good test-takers (who don't complain of "test anxiety" or some other such thing) and good test-takers have a better chance of doing well on the USMLE.

I'll agree with this. I'll take it one step further - I think that people who work hard and prepare well, will do well on both tests. But can you test for good test-taking skills? Can you test for propensity for elbow-grease?

No one is saying someone cannot do poorly on the MCAT and then do well on the USMLE. But schools are given the task to grab a large sample size over their many years admitting students and producing USMLE takers. We're talking about statistics.

Yes. But since:
1) medical school curriculum is a varied thing, both between schools and between years within a school
2) by necessity, you have to follow test-takers for years to get results
3) MCAT (and presumably the USMLE) changes every few years,

it's a poor comparison, so looking at the studies critically, my confidence in their application to current and future students is low.

Furthermore, highly confounding factors like good test-taking skills and propensity for elbow-grease, which neither test directly tests, makes the correlation further suspect.

I think that as a group, those who test high (30 and above) will probably pass the USMLE, but it's not garaunteed. That is the point I'd make.

 

[81586]

Okay which PR school are you at? I was told by some PR students that they all require 2 years of Spanish in college?!!?

i'm at UCC in Baymon, which is like a suburb of San Juan. I think when I applied it said that they req'd six hours of spanish. I placed out of 16 hrs though, so I never really was to concerned with the number of hours req'd, I just knew that it fell in between 6-12 hrs when I applied. You can contact each either Ponce and UCC to find out. If the OP is serious, I would definitely apply this year - good fall back schools should things not work out.

 

[Orthodoc40]

i'm at UCC in Baymon, which is like a suburb of San Juan. I think when I applied it said that they req'd six hours of spanish. I placed out of 16 hrs though, so I never really was to concerned with the number of hours req'd, I just knew that it fell in between 6-12 hrs when I applied. You can contact each either Ponce and UCC to find out. If the OP is serious, I would definitely apply this year - good fall back schools should things not work out.

MSAR says your school has a requirement of 6 hrs Spanish, Ponce doesn't list any. So how'd these people you know who can't speak enough Spanish to get by at Taco Bell get in??!!! LOL!

 

[DMB41]

According to mdapplicants.com, there are applicants who do get into med school with low MCATS. If you are one of these people now in school, could you tell me what did during the application year to make yourself to make it happen? Call the admissions office frequently? Write update letters? Visit the school? Have more letters of rec sent on your behalf? Meet with an admissions coordinator of the school applying to? etc? Any ideas?

I'm currently applying and I got a 24R. I know that I should retake the MCAT again but this was my second time and I really don't think I will improve. I dont' have test anxiety--- I just don't take that particular test very well. Everything else about my application is very good, high science GPA from a top university, 300 hours in clinics and hospitals for the indigent, strong LORs, did a postbacc, had a very unique career for a few years and want to practice exclusively with underserved patients in the Latino population.

Thank you for any tips!

I knew someone who got in with a 19 (pause for the gasps). However, she had a 3.9-something (she only got 1 B in undergrad, and was an honor student), she was a minority (she says she thinks that was the reason she got in), she interviewed well, and she had loads of pt time through her work. She was stressed and had to work for it but she got in and is now a 1st year resident.

You can do it you would be wise to address it in your interview though.

Also, did you do everything you could to do well on the MCAT? Did you take Kaplan, did you study well and hard? These will be things the interviewers will ask you about. Make sure you really did everything you could do and did not do well on it. If you did the best you can do...then that is one thing but if it appears that you are just lazy and don't want to retake the test...well that is another thing all together.

 

[81586]

MSAR says your school has a requirement of 6 hrs Spanish, Ponce doesn't list any. So how'd these people you know who can't speak enough Spanish to get by at Taco Bell get in??!!! LOL!

haha - glad you enjoy the quote. these people were admitted b/c the adcom knows that they can pick up enough conversational spanish the first two years to get by when clinics come around. also, they know these student will have less trouble with the USMLE than their puerto rican counterparts. its really tough on some of the people from PR since the exam is admin'd in English. Although all the exams at the school are in English I think the Step takes its toll on them since its a much longer exam and requires you to read/analyze a crap load of info faster given the time constraints. Step 1 is a monster of an exam and I couldnt even imagine having to take in a different language........

 

[MDstudent79]

Interesting comments here. Here are just some random thoughts that have popped into my head reading these posts....

I think you (i.e. the original poster) can definitely get into some schools with a 24 MCAT score, but some probably won't even give you a secondary with that unless you've got something else very compelling.

I got a 30, for instance, which is pretty run-of-the-mill for ppl who get into MD programs nationwide. I received a few interview offers, was accepted to my first choice ultimately, and got secondaries at 8/9 schools I applied to. But the more competitive schools to which I applied (Michigan, U Chicago) didn't offer interviews, and I didn't even get a secondary from UCSF. That didn't surprise me; those were my "reachers."

A 24 is going to be tricky just because there are SO many good students out there these days applying. The avg MCAT at my school went up about 0.5 points between this year and last, such that it's now 31. And that's just my state school--a top 50 program, but nothing outrageously famous to be sure.

Some friends of mine who applied to my current school with a 26 and 27 didn't get interviews, and the admissions folks said it was primarily due to the low MCATs. That might not be fair, but yeah, that's largely the way it works for MD programs nowadays.

But... I know there are a lot of smaller private schools and some of the Southern state schools that have lower MCATs. Unfortunately, the latter often restrict admissions to in-staters. You might also want to consider DO schools, which really are just as good from what I've heard--though you'll have a tough time breaking into surgery or more competitive specialties post-grad if that's your interest. Their MCAT averages are in line with your score, though.

I don't have any advice that you haven't heard before. Consider taking it again, but it also doesn't hurt to apply if you think your other stuff might make up for the low MCAT score. I'm a non-traditional student (sort of...it's not that uncommon these days) who wasn't a science major and had to go back to school to get prereqs. I studied exclusively from my old class notes and reading through an MCAT review book--I think it was called "Gold Standard" or something. I did about 4 practice tests, too...though only one all at once over 8 hours.

I'd recommend doing lots of test questios if you're finding it's just the nature of the MCAT (and not your general academic or test-taking abilities) that is weak right now.

Now, as to how well the MCAT determines success in med school; that's what has interested me a lot in this thread....

I'd say it's a decent indicator, to be honest. They could do without physics problems, though, which I think are completely irrelevant to med school based on my experience so far. But it's otherwise pretty good I'd say.

I've found that most med school exams are a lot like the biology section of the MCAT, as are the USMLE Step 1 exams I've looked at so far.

Also, I'd say there's definitely a good correlation between how hard students have to work to keep up the grades in med school and how they did on their MCATs. That seems to be true for the first year, at least; it might have less of a correlation after clinicals start for me.

For instance, I got a 30 on the MCAT, which is a little below average for my school. And that's almost precisely where I fell on all of my first exams. I've since retooled my study skills to keep up with the fast pace of med school, and my performance has started to improve. But I'd say the MCAT is at least a good indicator of where you'll start off.

The students I know who got 35+ on their MCAT are definitely the top performers academically--with the best science backgrounds and good test-taking techniques. And the students who snuck by with scores in the mid 20s (I know a few) are happy when they pass.

Now I'm not sure how much correlation there will be between the MCAT and Steps 2-4 or once we actually get out in practice. But there definitely seems to be a correlation between MCAT and Years 1/2.

Ok, I'm outta here to study some more. That's med school! Get out while you still can! ;-) Joking...it's been a blast, but definitely challenging. I've never had to sit down and analyze my study habits until now!

Good luck to the original poster!

 

[Twitch]

My MCAT < 30 and I have a dozen interviews which resulted (so far) in about half as many acceptances. None of my interviewers ever questioned my scores. If they didn't think I'd cut it I wouldn't be there interviewing.

Now the question is how will my MCAT score reflect on my board scores. The MCAT folks will lead you to believe that it is a good indicator of board scores. We'll see about that.

 

[fatman41]

The MCAT does predict step 1 scores essentially b/c the material for both of these tests is not that difficult, only involves sitting down and working hard to learn. Kaplan, Princeton review have everything you need to know, so get those and you'll be fine.

When you see these allo MCAT is teen/low 20s in allo schools, I assumed they were minority applicants. Schools will tolerate lower scores to say they have diversity, which in turn provides greater funding. I had a find get into a allo school with a 3.5 and 23 after he was actively recruited by their admissions office due to his minority status (they said so in their letter). He was told he essentially had a spot b/c of his ethnicity. An excellent example of reverse discrimination. It's not fair, but that's the system.

 

[basupran]

on the other end of the spectrum (myself), I had a relatively low GPA (slightly <3.5 engineering heavy) with a 32L on my MCATs, and I got one interview, no acceptances (applied to a decent # of schools). Decent extracirs, etc., but nothing. My premed adv, and everyone was sure that I was going to get in, but I didn't. Point is, you never know what is going to happen...sometimes, people you expect to get in don't, and people you don't expect to get in do.

Best of luck to you, and try taking the test again. This time, don't 'study' so much; try doing more practice questions. Like another poster stated, the majority of information is in the passage itself.

 

[MDstudent79]

The MCAT does predict step 1 scores essentially b/c the material for both of these tests is not that difficult, only involves sitting down and working hard to learn. Kaplan, Princeton review have everything you need to know, so get those and you'll be fine.

When you see these allo MCAT is teen/low 20s in allo schools, I assumed they were minority applicants. Schools will tolerate lower scores to say they have diversity, which in turn provides greater funding. I had a find get into a allo school with a 3.5 and 23 after he was actively recruited by their admissions office due to his minority status (they said so in their letter). He was told he essentially had a spot b/c of his ethnicity. An excellent example of reverse discrimination. It's not fair, but that's the system.

Yeah, I just hope someone with a teen MCAT score can kick it up enough once they get into med school to pass all the boards! Doesn't do much good to have an African American or Hispanic student who fails out or doesn't pass the boards. I recall reading that they had some problems with that in CA a couple years back.

 

[NYCPRDOC]

I have no illusions about the fact that the only reason I got accepted into med school is because 1) I'm a **** (offended? too bad), 2) I grew up in the hood, and 3) I'm the first person in my family & neighborhood to graduate high school; people's heads nearly exploded when they discovered I graduated college.

Anyway, here are some suggestions (WARNING: THEY'LL PROBABLY OFFEND):

- Since you're an URM applying to an allo school, by default, you're in a better position than most white or asian applicants (inspite of your MCAT score). With this mind, apply early and apply to several schools. I didn't get my prelim applications (AMCAS & AACOMAS) out until early Sept of the year before I was planning to enroll and I still got 4 allo interviews and all of my DO interviews (11)!!! If you need to take out a small loan to cover all the fees of the application process, DO IT!

- URM applicant + DO schools = guaranteed acceptance, no joke. Forget applying to Caribbean schools, you won't need to.

- Indicate on AMCAS & AACOMAS that you're a **** regardless of you're physical appearance or sur name. We come in so many varieties that admissions has no choice but to believe you. The fact of the matter is that our enrollement numbers are so low, especially when compared to blacks, that any **** is a good ****.

- When you interview, tell them exactly what they want to hear. I won't say anything more than that; if you think about it hard enough, you'll see the point I'm trying to get across.

- If you really feel like you need to take the MCATs again in order to increase your chances, go right ahead. It'll show how persistant you are, get it?

Bottom line: the rules are totally different when it comes to URM applicants. Forget what you've been told in the previous posts -- most of it doesn't even apply to you anyway. If you think I'm talking BS then how else would someone like me -- MCAT-25R, overall GPA-2.8 -- get into one of the top schools in the northeast? It doesn't take a genius or a non-URM applicant to figure that one out.

 

[Wizard of Oz]

Yes and we all know how unbiased researches can be when they are funded by the organization that puts out the test in the first place.

Please--the AAMC represents accredited medical schools throughout the country. It doesn't matter if the research is biased or not since the medical schools who require the MCAT believe it.

 

[1Path]

A 24 is going to be tricky just because there are SO many good students out there these days applying. !

I beg to differ with the mind set that says that a person with a 24 MCAT isn't a "good student". I know PLENTY of not just good students, but GREAT students (based on med school grades and USMLE's) who had an MCAT of 24. Two of them have MD/PhD's including one covered in Ivy!

I have no illusions about the fact that the only reason I got accepted into med school is because 1) I'm a **** (offended? too bad), 2) I grew up in the hood, and 3) I'm the first person in my family & neighborhood to graduate high school; people's heads nearly exploded when they discovered I graduated college.

I really think it's a shame that you are a URM forgot to mention the one most important factor that got you into school and no it was NOT being a Puerto Rican: IT WAS HARD WORK!!!!!!!

I believe that the average person on SDN wouldn't last a day in the 'hood, so to make it out with a high school diploma when the drop out rate is over 75%, avoiding all the pitfalls that would "trap" the "average American" is a feat all in itself. To graduate college and have the audacity to even apply to med school when you were likely told to get a job, is yet another level of achievement. All things being equal, not many people could overcome as much as you have backgroundwise with a decent GPA in college (with a 2.8, I'm assuming you went to a majority school). "Smart" alone won't get you through med school, hard work and a little brain power will.

-- URM applicant + DO schools = guaranteed acceptance, no joke. Forget applying to Caribbean schools, you won't need to

I'll have to concur with this. I've had unoffical offers of admissions from adcom members without even submitting my apps (based on undergrad/grad grades and MCAT).

- If you really feel like you need to take the MCATs again in order to increase your chances, go right ahead. It'll show how persistant you are, get it?

Gotta agree with this too. I'm a multiple, multipe MCAT test taker and I've never once been asked about the many repeats(my last good score expired, neccesitating the retakes). I have been told by more than a few schools that I'm dam tenacious KNOWING that there are URM's with scores LOWER than mine IN medical schools.

 

[NYCPRDOC]

I beg to differ with the mind set that says that a person with a 24 MCAT isn't a "good student". I know PLENTY of not just good students, but GREAT students (based on med school grades and USMLE's) who had an MCAT of 24. Two of them have MD/PhD's including one covered in Ivy!

I really think it's a shame that you are a URM forgot to mention the one most important factor that got you into school and no it was NOT being a Puerto Rican: IT WAS HARD WORK!!!!!!!

I believe that the average person on SDN wouldn't last a day in the 'hood, so to make it out with a high school diploma when the drop out rate is over 75%, avoiding all the pitfalls that would "trap" the "average American" is a feat all in itself. To graduate college and have the audacity to even apply to med school when you were likely told to get a job, is yet another level of achievement. All things being equal, not many people could overcome as much as you have backgroundwise with a decent GPA in college (with a 2.8, I'm assuming you went to a majority school). "Smart" alone won't get you through med school, hard work and a little brain power will.
I'll have to concur with this. I've had unoffical offers of admissions from adcom members without even submitting my apps (based on undergrad/grad grades and MCAT).

Gotta agree with this too. I'm a multiple, multipe MCAT test taker and I've never once been asked about the many repeats(my last good score expired, neccesitating the retakes). I have been told by more than a few schools that I'm dam tenacious KNOWING that there are URM's with scores LOWER than mine IN medical schools.

I wasn't expecting that sort of response, but thanks, I really appreciate it.

 

[Northerner]

I beg to differ with the mind set that says that a person with a 24 MCAT isn't a "good student". I know PLENTY of not just good students, but GREAT students (based on med school grades and USMLE's) who had an MCAT of 24. Two of them have MD/PhD's including one covered in Ivy!

You missed the point. The point was that they don't even have to consider students with a 24 MCAT (a quantitative measurement of your ability as a student), because they've got a plethora of 30/3.5 students to choose from who've got everything the 3.5/24's got. Whether or not you happen to know of anecdotal instances where people with 24's turn out to be a good medical student or not, it doesn't change the fact that the admissions committee's task is to forecast what kind of student they'll be based on the variables presented. The MCAT is an accepted quantitative measurement of your ability and premed preparation, and the fact is they've got more than enough great candidates to choose from who don't have the red flag 24 to try to justify.

 

[gujuDoc]

You missed the point. The point was that they don't even have to consider students with a 24 MCAT (a quantitative measurement of your ability as a student), because they've got a plethora of 30/3.5 students to choose from who've got everything the 3.5/24's got. Whether or not you happen to know of anecdotal instances where people with 24's turn out to be a good medical student or not, it doesn't change the fact that the admissions committee's task is to forecast what kind of student they'll be based on the variables presented. The MCAT is an accepted quantitative measurement of your ability and premed preparation, and the fact is they've got more than enough great candidates to choose from who don't have the red flag 24 to try to justify.

You'd be surprised but a few years ago USF COM took a great number of students with 25-27 range MCAT scores even though they waitlisted them first. Meanwhile I had friends with 3.5 and 30+ MCAT scores and decent ECs who've applied more then 3 times before getting in. For instance there's one guy in the Preallo boards right now who's applied 4 times with a 3.5 and 31 on his last try and still hasn't gotten in even with good ECs. On the other hand, a few years ago I knew a few students who had 26-27 range MCAT scores and were getting in right away. On other occassions I met people with 24's who got in at like 3 or 4 schools. The differing factor was that they had a much much much higher GPA to compensate for a lower MCAT score. Instead of a 3.5 they had like a 3.9 if they had a 24 or 26 in most instances. And they had tons of clinical experience or something that the adcom found to be profound and impact them in some sort of way. In the case of one girl she was a nurse for 10 years and the school that she ended up going to is notorious for placing an emphasi on clinical exposure and counting it a great deal and hence loves people who've been in other areas of healthcare and would rather have them over the person with a 3.8 and 30 and no clinical exposure at all or very minimal clinical exposure.

MCAT score and GPA is just one part of the deal but not the say all and end all. Once you get past the initial screening based on numbers, then they look at everything else before deciding who gets in much less interviewed. If you want HMS or Hopkins or something like that, then there's going to be a highe placement on numbers. But if you are talking about certain state schools or minority based schools the ranges will be far different.

 

[NonTradMed]

You don't get out much then, apparently. Lots of folks get into med school with an MCAT in that range. With the OP's background and GPA, she most definitely can do so as well. She won't get into a K-Med wunderkind, wet-behind-the-ears school, for sure, but as a quick example, if she were a TX resident (but I don't think she is), she'd be a good candidate for UTSA. They like people with her background, and don't even interview the 3.9 GPA, 40 MCAT types. They are definitely not alone in that regard either...I believe it's a growing trend, in fact.

I may not get out much, but according to MSAR (2006-2007), their most recent data showed that a little over 500 were accepted and ~1200 people were rejected with a 24 MCAT. Ancedotal evidence notwithstanding. Other factors would have to surpass the average matriculant norm for her to have a shot.

I had friends get in with a 24 in the state of Florida. In Florida that is the minimum required to get in. No these people didn't have internal connections. They were people with strong GPAs to make up for subpar MCAT scores or they had something in terms of experience. The girl who is now a 3rd year at Miami (or should I say woman since she's older) was a nurse with tons of clinical experience prior to med school. She had a postbac GPA of 3.9. Another person I know got in with a 25 and 23 to FSU COM but they are relatively new and so don't have super high averages.

Also knew a few with 26s who got in despite low Verbals because they were strong in other areas. One of them got into RFU and USF, the other was waitlisted postintervew at Meharry and got into USF. Both those cases were a few years ago. They are now MS 2's.

And I knew FMGs were matched into surgery, gas etc....doens't mean it's a common event.

I got the same advice by people on SDN about my chances and I had semi-decent stats. I realized the biggest problem is the 'rah rah rah' people that tell you you have a chance b/c so and so they knew got in. However, I found reality to be less kind towards my mediocre scores and I want to spare the OP the disappointment with people telling her/him that she/he can get in when chances are looking slim.

 

[Northerner]

And I knew FMGs were matched into surgery, gas etc....doens't mean it's a common event.

I got the same advice by people on SDN about my chances and I had semi-decent stats. I realized the biggest problem is the 'rah rah rah' people that tell you you have a chance b/c so and so they knew got in. However, I found reality to be less kind towards my mediocre scores and I want to spare the OP the disappointment with people telling her/him that she/he can get in when chances are looking slim.

Right on. Though it may make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside, they're not doing people any favors by being the eternal optimist.

 

[Doc Oc]

To answer the OPs original question:
I am someone with a lowish MCAT who was accepted to two MD schools and 3 DO schools, ultimately choosing one of the DO schools.

My first MCAT was 24Q.

I did bad because I did not study enough, did not know what to expect as a result, and had no endurance because I did not take a full-length exam to test this.

The wrong answers that I choose tend to be distractors. I go into the question thinking that I know the answer, but then read all of the answers, and when I get to one that I just can't rule out, I go back and forth and often choose the one that I didn't think of to begin with. I needed to stick with my instinct and not second guess myself.

Other wrong answers that I choose are because I did not READ the question and answers carefully enough, and choose something that I should have ruled out kaplan/princeton review-style, like answers with extreme verbiage or answers that are wrong because of one word.

I get distracted if I put "B" too much in a row, notice that I haven't answered "E", etc.

In particular, in the bio section, I actually tend to get all or nearly all of the bio questions right, as I was a physiology major. BUT - so does everyone else. What people get wrong and what lowers their scores are usually the orgo questions. This is a curved test. Pretty much most people will excel on the bio questions because they are often the only thing on the test that even remotely correlates with the reason you are taking the test to begin with (being a doc)

Anyway, I could go on with reasons why I did bad, but you NEED to figure out why you do bad on "that test". There is a reason, and the reason is not "just because" unless you are not capable of self-analysis.

I did not get accepted the first time I applied. No interviews, few secondaries.

I used the above info, took the test again, and got a 29R. Not perfect, but good enough, hence the 5 acceptances mentioned above. The rest of my app was pretty good, but I'm no Olympian with award-winning research or anything. I was probably truly your run-of-the-mill white female applicant to many adcoms.

I am a good test taker now. I high-passed most of my classes, was in the top of my class, did well on both COMLEX and USMLE Step 2 - but not Step 1 (205)

My advice is: Even if you get in, you need to be able to analyze your test performance, and if you do, it will help you immensely if you try to figure out why. "I need to study more" isn't good enough either, because it doesn't tell you why the studying that you did do wasn't effective (unless you ran out of time and didn't cover all of the material).

 

[vtucci]

I am a MSII at USF and had under a 30 (29S). It is true that USF looks for the complete package and has a large number of non-traditional students.

While it was not the 24 of the OP, it was not what I wanted either. If your score is low, I would suggest retaking the MCAT if you are a traditional student. If you are a trad student, you might want to have your test taking analyzed. Maybe you have a learning disability and can get an untimed test or longer to take the exam. It is just odd with such a good writing score that your verbal score was so poor. To me that speaks to a time problem rather than comprehension.

If you are a non-trad, you may have other unique qualities to your application that a given school is looking for.

To answer the USMLE v. MCAT question, according to data, the score that correlates most with your USMLE score, is the MCAT Verbal section.

 

[allendo]

Yes, they may be different kinds of standardized tests, but they're both still that - standardized tests. So if nothing else, the fact that a correlation exists between the two suggests that people who do well on the MCAT are good test-takers (who don't complain of "test anxiety" or some other such thing) and good test-takers have a better chance of doing well on the USMLE.

No one is saying someone cannot do poorly on the MCAT and then do well on the USMLE. But schools are given the task to grab a large sample size over their many years admitting students and producing USMLE takers. We're not talking about exceptions - whether Suzy Wilkins from Omaha who had a cold the day of the test and was PMSing and had a fight with her boyfriend and whose undergrad physics class didn't cover conductors and accidentally mis-bubbled 7 questions on her verbal section has an equal chance to do well as her friend who didn't have a bad day and did 5 points better. We're talking about statistics. We're talking about whether people who get in with 24's tend to get 200's and people who get in with 30's tend to get 225's, for example. They do. Can you blame them for playing the odds? They have their pick of the litter, might as well cover their bases.

I know a guy who made a 13, went to the Caribbean and scored 214(87) on the usmle!

 

[gujuDoc]

I may not get out much, but according to MSAR (2006-2007), their most recent data showed that a little over 500 were accepted and ~1200 people were rejected with a 24 MCAT. Ancedotal evidence notwithstanding. Other factors would have to surpass the average matriculant norm for her to have a shot.



And I knew FMGs were matched into surgery, gas etc....doens't mean it's a common event.

I got the same advice by people on SDN about my chances and I had semi-decent stats. I realized the biggest problem is the 'rah rah rah' people that tell you you have a chance b/c so and so they knew got in. However, I found reality to be less kind towards my mediocre scores and I want to spare the OP the disappointment with people telling her/him that she/he can get in when chances are looking slim.

Listen I'm not saying its a common occurrence and I don't think anyone else is saying that. We are just saying that it not being common doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. it just means you have much slimmer chances but that still does not equal zero chance. But thanks for the stats lesson.

 

[Northerner]

I know a guy who made a 13, went to the Caribbean and scored 214(87) on the usmle!

Gosh, you sure showed me.

 

[gujuDoc]

Gosh, you sure showed me.

LOL. I'd probably be more impressed if that guy got a 230-260 range.

214 isn't bad but it isn't the highest I've heard of and its still below the average of the Florida schools so I'm not too impressed.

 

[dsherida]

Hey, most people on this site will tell you to apply to DO schools because you can't get into an MD school. Just remember that most people on here have high MCATs. Mine wasn't high (27) but I took it multiple times. The catch is to find how schools look at multiple MCATs. I know you have a 24, but some schools will take the best score you get in each section on any test(ie. you would have a 25: 8,8,9); I know MCW does this. Your grades are great and it sounds like you have done work outside of the classroom. Don't apply to "low tier" schools because they get like 8,000 applications. Find schools that look at you MCAT in a different light. I know Meharry in TN has a pretty low average and loves working with underpriveledged populations which it sounds like you have. Just be prepared to apply a few times possibly. I had to apply more than once. Be smart, meaning apply as soon as you can. That way you beat all of the Aug. MCATers at rolling admission schools. This makes a huge diff. When I was applying the director of admissions at a rolling school said they won't be able to offer interviews to anyone that is complete past october because their class was filling up. IF you are in doubt, call a director of admissions. They are usually very helpful. In the mean time think of ways to show you are in this and won't give up. Do some research and try to get published. Some school will give you a shot I think at an interview at least based on your determination and work beyond a test. If they don't, I think that gives you an idea of what type of school they are. They are only supportive if you are rocking your grades. Hang in there and continue to apply if this is what you want to do. Be creative and get apps in ASAP. Sorry to ramble, but find out which schools also have strict cutoffs. For example, I know Mt. Sinai won't give anyone an interview if their MCAT is less than 30. Do your research either on SDN or calling the admissions office. It'll work out in the end if you work hard to get it. Feel free to send me a message if I can be of more help. Med school is a lot of work, but I love it and am glad I put forth the effort to fill out my apps more than once!

 

[45408]

I know a guy who made a 13, went to the Caribbean and scored 214(87) on the usmle!

Wow. How do you get a 13? A 4/4/5? That's like falling asleep through each section. I could have left after the first section and still beaten him by several points. I think you get a minimum of a 2 in each section.