Temple Vs. UCSF

[tigertooth]

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Hi, is there any senior students from Temple dental school there? I would like to get some serious opinions about 3rd/4th years school life about Temple. How much the cost for tuition fee and living?
I have already got accepted by UCSF, and most likely by Temple too. I want to compare both schools and made my decision. Thank you for your advise.

 

[vaio]

Hi, is there any senior students from Temple dental school there? I would like to get some serious opinions about 3rd/4th years school life about Temple. How much the cost for tuition fee and living?
I have already got accepted by UCSF, and most likely by Temple too. I want to compare both schools and made my decision. Thank you for your advise.

why on earth would you even want to consider going to temple, when you've been accepted to UCSF....there miles apart

 

[kiggar4l2000]

Hi, is there any senior students from Temple dental school there? I would like to get some serious opinions about 3rd/4th years school life about Temple. How much the cost for tuition fee and living?
I have already got accepted by UCSF, and most likely by Temple too. I want to compare both schools and made my decision. Thank you for your advise.

i'm with Viao. I first thought you wrote UCSF vs Tufts..which would've made some sense b/c I think Tufts is a great school (not as great as UCSF in my opinon). But Temple??? Are you kidding me??? I gave up scholarship at PENN, and Columbia to go to UCSF. I didn't even think about applying to Temple.

Stunned!

 

[losingfaith27]

why on earth would you even want to consider going to temple, when you've been accepted to UCSF....there miles apart

I'm a 4th year now, and I remember interviewing at Temple. I also interviewed at UCSF. The only thing Temple has over UCSF are their cast trimmers and nicer preclinical work benches. Everything else at UCSF is superior, including the cost of attending, the city you get to live in, and the overall quailty and reputation of the school. Temple is geared toward clinical dentistry. UCSF is more academic. You either have the hand skills or you don't. Once you are out of dental school working there is no difference in clinical skills coming from either school. I forgot to mention when I interviewed at Temple someone tried to sell me snow and I'm not talking about the stuff that falls from the sky. Even with San Francisco having a much higher cost of living than Philly, you will still save about 100K if you go to UCSF, and I'm not even counting the additional interest on top of that 100K. Tuition at Temple 40K + living expenses + instruments/equipment + health insurance books etc=about 75-80K. I'm assuming you are not a PA resident. 4years X 75K=300K. Tuition UCSF Tuition 24K + living expenses +instruments books etc=about 200-220K. This should be a no brainer. Don't disappoint me Tiger.

 

[DevilDent]

I am a senior at Temple and would definitely discourage anybody choosing Temple over most other dental schools. Temple tries to sell you on the "great" clinical experience, but you won't even be in the clinic in any capacity until the end of your 2nd year. When you finally are in the clinic, they just throw you in there and you must learn all the beaurocratic ropes by trial and error. You are responsible for billing and collections, appointing, and almost all lab work, for your patient. If all the bills don't balance, you get to pay the difference in order to graduate. The system to reserve chairs for appointments is ridiculous. For busy clinics like Perio, Pedo, or Treatment Planning, you must find a chair in the computer lab between 4:30 and 5:00 PM and click your mouse on the chairs as soon as they appear. Often, you still can't get a chair since the school doesn't have enough faculty to see enough patients in certain departments. You are even limited to the number of chairs you can reserve. Even as a senior trying to graduate! This situation along with the patient pool's tendency to not show up for scheduled appointments results in many wasted clinic sessions. Then the school administration has the nerve to accuse the students of poor clinic attendance! In my almost 4 years at Temple, I personally have never once seen the Dean of the dental school near the clinic during any sessions. Even when student government brings up these concerns, little to nothing is done to change the situation.
The biggest and most concerning situation at the dental school is the overemphasis on clinical requirements. I am sure it is similar at other dental schools, but it is disheartening when you see everything as a requirment instead of an opportunity to learn. This philosophy discourages students from taking on challenging or interesting cases that may take longer or not result in as many requirements being completed. Instead, you are looking for the easiest way to graduate. Are you really a better dentist by doing 15 simple crowns or by doing less, but more challenging treatments. In fact, the situation makes it most beneficial to do only the minimum requirements since doing an extra crown might result in not doing the 1 denture you might need to graduate. Also, you must rely on luck of the draw to get patients that will help or hinder your graduating on time. It has little to do with how hard you work if you aren't getting those specific requirements.
All in all, the administration at the school has the appearance of having little concern for the students and their feedback. This behavior leaves the students with no other recourse than to post on forums to warn others thinking about a Temple "education." I apologize for the negative nature of this post. There are certainly some great professors here at Temple, but its problems far outweigh it assets.

 

[tigertooth]

Hi, guys, thanks for your views. The reason I am trying to comparing two schools is I am living at the east coast and also I thought the tuition fees and living expense are much chaper for going to Temple. If i was wrong about it(different of the tuition fees), then I think UCSF is definately a good choice.
Losingfaith27, are you the fourth year student of UCSF? Can you gave me more information about your school? Thank you.

 

[tigertooth]

Devildent,Thank you so much for your opinions about Temple.

I am a senior at Temple and would definitely discourage anybody choosing Temple over most other dental schools. Temple tries to sell you on the "great" clinical experience, but you won't even be in the clinic in any capacity until the end of your 2nd year. When you finally are in the clinic, they just throw you in there and you must learn all the beaurocratic ropes by trial and error. You are responsible for billing and collections, appointing, and almost all lab work, for your patient. If all the bills don't balance, you get to pay the difference in order to graduate. The system to reserve chairs for appointments is ridiculous. For busy clinics like Perio, Pedo, or Treatment Planning, you must find a chair in the computer lab between 4:30 and 5:00 PM and click your mouse on the chairs as soon as they appear. Often, you still can't get a chair since the school doesn't have enough faculty to see enough patients in certain departments. You are even limited to the number of chairs you can reserve. Even as a senior trying to graduate! This situation along with the patient pool's tendency to not show up for scheduled appointments results in many wasted clinic sessions. Then the school administration has the nerve to accuse the students of poor clinic attendance! In my almost 4 years at Temple, I personally have never once seen the Dean of the dental school near the clinic during any sessions. Even when student government brings up these concerns, little to nothing is done to change the situation.
The biggest and most concerning situation at the dental school is the overemphasis on clinical requirements. I am sure it is similar at other dental schools, but it is disheartening when you see everything as a requirment instead of an opportunity to learn. This philosophy discourages students from taking on challenging or interesting cases that may take longer or not result in as many requirements being completed. Instead, you are looking for the easiest way to graduate. Are you really a better dentist by doing 15 simple crowns or by doing less, but more challenging treatments. In fact, the situation makes it most beneficial to do only the minimum requirements since doing an extra crown might result in not doing the 1 denture you might need to graduate. Also, you must rely on luck of the draw to get patients that will help or hinder your graduating on time. It has little to do with how hard you work if you aren't getting those specific requirements.
All in all, the administration at the school has the appearance of having little concern for the students and their feedback. This behavior leaves the students with no other recourse than to post on forums to warn others thinking about a Temple "education." I apologize for the negative nature of this post. There are certainly some great professors here at Temple, but its problems far outweigh it assets.

 

[docious]

All in all, the administration at the school has the appearance of having little concern for the students and their feedback. This behavior leaves the students with no other recourse than to post on forums to warn
others thinking about a Temple "education." I apologize for the negative nature of this post. There are certainly some great professors here at Temple, but its problems far outweigh it assets.

...this is extremely disheartening to hear, consider I live in Philly and will more than likely be starting at Temple in the fall.

DevilDent, would you say that meeting requirements, bureacratic red tape, etc, is just a frustrating part of the dental school experience, or is this strictly specific to Temple?

Also, since you're a 4th year, how do you feel Temple has prepared you for once you graduate?

 

[Truedat]

I am a senior at Temple and would definitely discourage anybody choosing Temple over most other dental schools. Temple tries to sell you on the "great" clinical experience, but you won't even be in the clinic in any capacity until the end of your 2nd year. When you finally are in the clinic, they just throw you in there and you must learn all the beaurocratic ropes by trial and error. You are responsible for billing and collections, appointing, and almost all lab work, for your patient. If all the bills don't balance, you get to pay the difference in order to graduate. The system to reserve chairs for appointments is ridiculous. For busy clinics like Perio, Pedo, or Treatment Planning, you must find a chair in the computer lab between 4:30 and 5:00 PM and click your mouse on the chairs as soon as they appear. Often, you still can't get a chair since the school doesn't have enough faculty to see enough patients in certain departments. You are even limited to the number of chairs you can reserve. Even as a senior trying to graduate! This situation along with the patient pool's tendency to not show up for scheduled appointments results in many wasted clinic sessions. Then the school administration has the nerve to accuse the students of poor clinic attendance! In my almost 4 years at Temple, I personally have never once seen the Dean of the dental school near the clinic during any sessions. Even when student government brings up these concerns, little to nothing is done to change the situation.
The biggest and most concerning situation at the dental school is the overemphasis on clinical requirements. I am sure it is similar at other dental schools, but it is disheartening when you see everything as a requirment instead of an opportunity to learn. This philosophy discourages students from taking on challenging or interesting cases that may take longer or not result in as many requirements being completed. Instead, you are looking for the easiest way to graduate. Are you really a better dentist by doing 15 simple crowns or by doing less, but more challenging treatments. In fact, the situation makes it most beneficial to do only the minimum requirements since doing an extra crown might result in not doing the 1 denture you might need to graduate. Also, you must rely on luck of the draw to get patients that will help or hinder your graduating on time. It has little to do with how hard you work if you aren't getting those specific requirements.
All in all, the administration at the school has the appearance of having little concern for the students and their feedback. This behavior leaves the students with no other recourse than to post on forums to warn others thinking about a Temple "education." I apologize for the negative nature of this post. There are certainly some great professors here at Temple, but its problems far outweigh it assets.

Ohh noo...cutting through red tape!!!! Horrible!!! Having to collect funds like you do in the real world!!!! That is aweful and unpractical!! Having less faculty than is needed??? That has never happened at any of the universities I have attended . People not showing up for appointments, I swear that could never happen in a private practice. My friends are at marquette, creighton and BU have all said the very same thing but some with different complaints. I don't think I've ever seen a deen in my entire life I don't see why I would ever want to see one, what can he/she do for me?
The reality is universities aren't perfect you need to pick the one that's right for you. Maybe Devildent thinks its aweful and others as well but I met plenty of others that wouldn't trade Temple for any of the other schools that they were accepted to.

 

[DevilDent]

I am sure many, if not most, dental schools experience similar situations with red tape and clinic frustrations, but tigertooth asked for the opinions of 4th year students at Temple. I have had a lot of interaction with students at many dental schools, and although they all have complaints, I have yet to find students (3rd and 4th year) as disgruntled as Temple students. I too defended Temple when I heard similar complaints from upperclassmen and professors when I was a 1st year student. Yes, you have to collect funds and deal with no-shows in real life, but your real life practice won't be set up in such a counter-productive manner. For example...if you need to do a crown for a patient, you should treat any periodontal conditions first. In order to do this, you must bring your patient to the Perio clinic. Unfortunately at Temple, this clinic is grossly understaffed, creating a bottleneck for all the students trying to treat patients. This in turn leads to many wasted sessions until you can get your patients through the Perio clinic (which usually takes more than 1 appt anyway). Until this past year, you even had to do all 6 month recall visits in the crowded Perio clinic. Some professors in other clinics still give you a hard time about performing a routine check up in their Operative or Fixed Clinic even though they are perfectly competent to evaluate a simple scaling and prophy. Just today, the Operative clinic (probably the most utilized clinic in any school) had 6 chairs available in the morning and 6 chairs in the afternoon. There are over 200 clinical students! Needless to say, a lot of students couldn't book a chair. Yet the administration still thinks the problem is student attendance! Of course, they probably haven't been to the clinic in a while. But these are just a couple examples of inefficiency.
Just ask any 3rd or 4th year Temple student about the new outreach program that takes them away from clinic sessions 3-5 weeks during your senior year without reducing any of the numerical requirements for crowns and dentures. So even though a lot of students didn't graduate on time in the past, the administration doesn't seem to have a problem with taking away even more clinic time. By the way, with the exception of denture adjustments, you can only see 2 patients a day!

Truedat: I appreciate the post and I definitely agree that a version of these problems exist in private practice and at other dental schools. When you get your first tuition bill for over $18,000 a semester (yes, I know a lot of schools are more expensive) and your class' legitimate concerns are ignored or passed over with excuses from administration officials, you will understand why administrators should see how their schools actually run. You can't make well-informed decisions without visiting the clinics that are affected.
As a side note, the 1st two years at Temple aren't too bad. The preclinical experience is pretty decent, and for the most part, academics aren't that cutthroat. That is definitely a postive at Temple. However, please do me a favor, and remember these posts in 2 or 3 years. I sincerely hope Temple makes honest efforts to improve the experience in the clinic by the time you get there. Again, I don't write these posts just to complain. I am only trying to answer the post that asked for an honest opinion from somebody who actually has experienced Temple for almost 4 years. As with any dental school, what you get out of your education is mostly based on what you put into it. Despite all of its problems, Temple has great students who will make great dentists.

 

[DevilDent]

OK...no more negativity from me for a while...in response to your question...

Temple WILL prepare you to be confident with your skills by the time you graduate, but I believe, as with all dental schools, that most of the real learning will happen when you start practicing on your own.

 

[Truedat]

OK...no more negativity from me for a while...in response to your question...

Temple WILL prepare you to be confident with your skills by the time you graduate, but I believe, as with all dental schools, that most of the real learning will happen when you start practicing on your own.

Ohh I am sure I will be plenty bitter with the experiences and the loads of crap that are dumped on me as a student. I will feel probably similar to what you are feeling, frustration for having to do every single piece of lab work instead of sending it out and doing more work, having tons of work lined up then havin 2 of the 15 patients lined up coming. I am sure there are tons of better ways to run the clinics and be more effective I don't doubt that....I expect that. In every instutition of education or buisness that I have been a part of.....I swear the system is always working against you instead of for you and I don't expect it to be any different in dental school.....even though it should be better.
I was just giving you a hard time, no harm intended. I understand from my friends at other dental institutions and from my own experience and will fully understand what you mean when I am in the full swing of things 3 years from now. 🙂

 

[drhobie7]

easy call. ucsf

 

[tug1625]

OK...no more negativity from me for a while...in response to your question...

Temple WILL prepare you to be confident with your skills by the time you graduate, but I believe, as with all dental schools, that most of the real learning will happen when you start practicing on your own.

I will be starting at Temple this fall and many of your complaints I have heard for a number of years.... I have had several close freinds graduate from Temple in the last few years and their concerns were much the same.... from what I have seen the admin is really what hurts Temple the most... and its inability to deal with the legite concerns of its students, other than that all my friends (now practicing dentists) said they were well ahead of other students from other schools entering into their residency. My father graduated from Temple dental in 76' and had many of the same admin problems you speak of today, so it really doesnt look like they are going to fix it anytime soon, but I will ahve to say that I can't wait to get going in clinical. Since I plan on doing rural dentistry I think I will be more than capable after dealing with the patient issues at Temple.

 

[luder98]

...

 

[coolraz]

Hey buddy, dont get too full of yourself. You dont have to be a californian to get into UCSF. In fact, the dean specifically says they dont give you any kind of privilege (it's just there's a LOT of californians). All you have to be is smart. But then, if you're smart, why would you be comparing UCSF vs. Temple ; )

 

[PDizzle]

I have to agree that deciding betwen Temple and UCSF is a no-brainer. CA resident or not. I don't care if you live on the moon, get ur butt over to the west coast!

I haven't heard a single bad thing about UCSF (maybe I'm just block'n it out) but I can not say the same thing about Temple.

If this is a super hard decision for you, I'd say go to Temple

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

For the people who have been on these forums for a while know that Im pretty happy with my decision to goto Temple so far. However, I will say that every complaint that DevilDent made is completely true. The administration at Temple is very poor and its definitely the biggest disadvantage of this place. I goto lunch with the interviewers a lot and Im not the type of guy to bull$hit.....I basically tell the interviewers that going to Temple takes the right person and there are 3 things you must know about temple to decide if its the right fit for you:

1. Like it has been mentioned a lot, the administration. The Dean is faceless, the administration is not student friendly and they give the impression that they really dont care about the student body. Honestly, the administration is the sole reason that Temple will NOT see a dime from me when I graduate. If your looking for a school where you play tennis with the dean or where the administration is holding everyone's hand singing Koom-bya, then definitely DO NOT come to Temple.

2. You do your own labwork.

3. Students at this school are VERY VERY independent. You call the patients, you make the appointments, you deal with the billing.....its definitely a big responsibility that students must know about if they choose to goto Temple.


Personally, Im the type of guy that is content with the above 3 and I answered the 3 above issues in the following way when I chose to come to Temple:

1. I really dont give two craps who the Dean is and if I ever see him. It makes no difference to me. Sure it'd be nice to have a more student-friendly administration, but I aint losing sleep over this and frankly when I graduate, its adios Temple forever.

2. Ok, the labwork blows.....but I see the positive aspect of it.....it allows me to become way more proficient clinically-wise and in the future Ill be able to constructively critique the work that my lab sends to me cause I know exactly what to look for. But I cannot deny that the labwork is time consuming and really is not something I look forward to.

3. Yes Temple is very independent, but I like that very much. Ive been an independent guy my entire life and no one has ever held my hand in anything....thats how I like to learn. I want to develop good habits and know how to deal with patient billing, insurance, and stuff like that, because as soon as I walk that door on graduation day, NO ONE IS HOLDING MY HAND ANYMORE. Even if I get screwed sometimes, Im the type of guy that shakes it off and learns from my mistakes. Of course, some people may want their hand held sometimes or perhaps all the time. If thats the case, then Temple is NOT for you. When I choose Temple, I talked to many many seniors at the time and graduates from Temple, and the consensus was unanimous.....everyone hated the school when they were there, but really appreciated the school when they got into practice. To me, that said a lot.

These are the 3 things I tell interviewers......

Is Temple perfect? Hell No. You just gotta ask yourself if your the right fit here.

 

[tigertooth]

Dr.BadVibes, thank you for your comment about your school. I noticed that You are also in MPH program, does it take additional years to get both DMD/MPH degree?

For the people who have been on these forums for a while know that Im pretty happy with my decision to goto Temple so far. However, I will say that every complaint that DevilDent made is completely true. The administration at Temple is very poor and its definitely the biggest disadvantage of this place. I goto lunch with the interviewers a lot and Im not the type of guy to bull$hit.....I basically tell the interviewers that going to Temple takes the right person and there are 3 things you must know about temple to decide if its the right fit for you:

1. Like it has been mentioned a lot, the administration. The Dean is faceless, the administration is not student friendly and they give the impression that they really dont care about the student body. Honestly, the administration is the sole reason that Temple will NOT see a dime from me when I graduate. If your looking for a school where you play tennis with the dean or where the administration is holding everyone's hand singing Koom-bya, then definitely DO NOT come to Temple.

2. You do your own labwork.

3. Students at this school are VERY VERY independent. You call the patients, you make the appointments, you deal with the billing.....its definitely a big responsibility that students must know about if they choose to goto Temple.


Personally, Im the type of guy that is content with the above 3 and I answered the 3 above issues in the following way when I chose to come to Temple:

1. I really dont give two craps who the Dean is and if I ever see him. It makes no difference to me. Sure it'd be nice to have a more student-friendly administration, but I aint losing sleep over this and frankly when I graduate, its adios Temple forever.

2. Ok, the labwork blows.....but I see the positive aspect of it.....it allows me to become way more proficient clinically-wise and in the future Ill be able to constructively critique the work that my lab sends to me cause I know exactly what to look for. But I cannot deny that the labwork is time consuming and really is not something I look forward to.

3. Yes Temple is very independent, but I like that very much. Ive been an independent guy my entire life and no one has ever held my hand in anything....thats how I like to learn. I want to develop good habits and know how to deal with patient billing, insurance, and stuff like that, because as soon as I walk that door on graduation day, NO ONE IS HOLDING MY HAND ANYMORE. Even if I get screwed sometimes, Im the type of guy that shakes it off and learns from my mistakes. Of course, some people may want their hand held sometimes or perhaps all the time. If thats the case, then Temple is NOT for you. When I choose Temple, I talked to many many seniors at the time and graduates from Temple, and the consensus was unanimous.....everyone hated the school when they were there, but really appreciated the school when they got into practice. To me, that said a lot.

These are the 3 things I tell interviewers......

Is Temple perfect? Hell No. You just gotta ask yourself if your the right fit here.

 

[tigertooth]

Dr.BadVibes, thank you for your comment about your school. I noticed that You are also in MPH program, does it take additional years to get both DMD/MPH degree?

For the people who have been on these forums for a while know that Im pretty happy with my decision to goto Temple so far. However, I will say that every complaint that DevilDent made is completely true. The administration at Temple is very poor and its definitely the biggest disadvantage of this place. I goto lunch with the interviewers a lot and Im not the type of guy to bull$hit.....I basically tell the interviewers that going to Temple takes the right person and there are 3 things you must know about temple to decide if its the right fit for you:

1. Like it has been mentioned a lot, the administration. The Dean is faceless, the administration is not student friendly and they give the impression that they really dont care about the student body. Honestly, the administration is the sole reason that Temple will NOT see a dime from me when I graduate. If your looking for a school where you play tennis with the dean or where the administration is holding everyone's hand singing Koom-bya, then definitely DO NOT come to Temple.

2. You do your own labwork.

3. Students at this school are VERY VERY independent. You call the patients, you make the appointments, you deal with the billing.....its definitely a big responsibility that students must know about if they choose to goto Temple.


Personally, Im the type of guy that is content with the above 3 and I answered the 3 above issues in the following way when I chose to come to Temple:

1. I really dont give two craps who the Dean is and if I ever see him. It makes no difference to me. Sure it'd be nice to have a more student-friendly administration, but I aint losing sleep over this and frankly when I graduate, its adios Temple forever.

2. Ok, the labwork blows.....but I see the positive aspect of it.....it allows me to become way more proficient clinically-wise and in the future Ill be able to constructively critique the work that my lab sends to me cause I know exactly what to look for. But I cannot deny that the labwork is time consuming and really is not something I look forward to.

3. Yes Temple is very independent, but I like that very much. Ive been an independent guy my entire life and no one has ever held my hand in anything....thats how I like to learn. I want to develop good habits and know how to deal with patient billing, insurance, and stuff like that, because as soon as I walk that door on graduation day, NO ONE IS HOLDING MY HAND ANYMORE. Even if I get screwed sometimes, Im the type of guy that shakes it off and learns from my mistakes. Of course, some people may want their hand held sometimes or perhaps all the time. If thats the case, then Temple is NOT for you. When I choose Temple, I talked to many many seniors at the time and graduates from Temple, and the consensus was unanimous.....everyone hated the school when they were there, but really appreciated the school when they got into practice. To me, that said a lot.

These are the 3 things I tell interviewers......

Is Temple perfect? Hell No. You just gotta ask yourself if your the right fit here.

 

[Dentcraze]

Im a 3rd year at Temple. All the negatives about Temple are true. The place can be overwhelming, unfair, and the last place on the planet you want to be at times. But graduates from Temple are way ahead in most aspects of General Dentistry. To survive at Temple should you chose to come here. Would be to think of this analogy Temple has 3 million hoops all lined up and we are little poodles. To graduate you have to jump through all these hoops. You will get to the end faster if you just jump and dont bark at the hoops. Because I have found that the students have very little voice at changing anything at this school.

 

[Truedat]

Im a 3rd year at Temple. All the negatives about Temple are true. The place can be overwhelming, unfair, and the last place on the planet you want to be at times. But graduates from Temple are way ahead in most aspects of General Dentistry. To survive at Temple should you chose to come here. Would be to think of this analogy Temple has 3 million hoops all lined up and we are little poodles. To graduate you have to jump through all these hoops. You will get to the end faster if you just jump and dont bark at the hoops. Because I have found that the students have very little voice at changing anything at this school.

I like poodles

 

[tinker bell]

How do you compare studying in the gutto library of Temple and ucsf library with the golden gate in view? You must be nut still debating.
If you still can't make your decision at this point, may be you should not come here at all, because your smart classmates at ucsf will kick your butts. They make quicker guess at multiple choice exams, they do quicker lab work.
May be go to Temple at process your own denture is not too bad after all. Spend all night in the lab, slowly thinking, slowly setting denture teeth. Then another night process the denture. And graduate 4 yrs later, realizing that you can also work as a dental tech technician, in case you are sued by one of your patient.

 

[1992Corolla]

How do you compare studying in the gutto library of Temple and ucsf library with the golden gate in view? You must be nut still debating.
If you still can't make your decision at this point, may be you should not come here at all, because your smart classmates at ucsf will kick your butts. They make quicker guess at multiple choice exams, they do quicker lab work.
May be go to Temple at process your own denture is not too bad after all. Spend all night in the lab, slowly thinking, slowly setting denture teeth. Then another night process the denture. And graduate 4 yrs later, realizing that you can also work as a dental tech technician, in case you are sued by one of your patient.

Ahhh, the intelligence oozes from this post...I love it. 🙄 🙄

Sounds like most intelligent people go to UCSF...

How many times have I seen the Dean of my undergrad in the hallways...maybe once...who cares? Hmmm, what about the Dean of the Science Department....maybe 3 times...who cares?
Doing lab work at Temple...it may suck some days, but you're going to be doing stuff with your hands for the next 30 years, get over it. How many other schools make you do you own lab work? Baylor, some others. If 1,000 students can do it every year, it's no big deal. Scheduling patients?? Heaven forbid you learn this in dental school and not when you graduate. Same for billing. Get screwed in dental school a couple of times or in private practice...you choose.

UCSF doe shave some +'s. Tuition is lower. San Fran is nice. It's not humid and the temperate weather is sweet.