Termination From HPSP

[HPSP Lost]

Hi. I am trying to get information through the normal channels, but am having trouble getting responses. While I continue with that, I want to see if anyone here has any insight.

I won't mention the branch, but I failed to apply on time for the 1 year AEGD (Not mandatory to accept, but mandatory to apply to), and the result was termination from the HPSP. This decision was made a few months ago, and I was informed recently.

I now have the option to request to resign my commission, or not.

It seems like there is no way to appeal this decision, and timely application to the AEGD was part of my contract, but I'm hoping I'm wrong and there is some way to stay in. I was very happy with the idea of being a military dentist and I can't believe I slipped up in such a dramatic way.

So, has anyone heard of an appeal process? Or any other way to practice in the military without a debt load that would be prohibitive of that type of practice?

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[Big Time Hoosier]

How late were you applying? You may run into a problem because of force reduction. Your branch may look at this as an easy way to eliminate a dentist they no longer need. Navy general dentistry, for example, is something like 130% manned.

Big Hoss

 

[HPSP Lost]

How late were you applying? You may run into a problem because of force reduction. Your branch may look at this as an easy way to eliminate a dentist they no longer need. Navy general dentistry, for example, is something like 130% manned.

Big Hoss

Well that would be horrifying. I have to say, I feel pretty desperate right now.
I'm not sure what to do but keep trying to get in touch with my contacts though.

Edit: Didn't see your question. I messed up by not keeping my contact info current and not staying in the loop. I didn't realize I had to apply until just prior to the deadline. I was given another deadline a bit later and had only the paperwork and an LOR (rather than the 3 needed). I was placed on involuntary leave and I got in touch with the management office who told me I wouldn't be receiving any stipends while on leave so that would need to be straightened out. The next contact was my termination notice.

Not that all that matters now I guess, I'm just hoping I can still serve as a dentist even if in some diminished capacity.

 

[distressstudent]

So what will happen to your debt?

Read through your contract again and see if it mentions anything. Possibly consult a lawyer... Not telling you to "fight" it, because it might not be a case you can win in court, but wouldn't hurt to get some legal advice.

Not sure if there any many precedents for termination warnings from HPSP specifically

 

[Bis-GMA111]

did your recruiting station not send you the instructions/offer to meet up with you to compile your packet?

 

[Bis-GMA111]

@HPSP Lost the best course of action at this point, in my opinion, is to contact the HPSP office and see if there is a way to appeal this decision. speculation won't help in this case

 

[HPSP Lost]

So what will happen to your debt?

Read through your contract again and see if it mentions anything. Possibly consult a lawyer... Not telling you to "fight" it, because it might not be a case you can win in court, but wouldn't hurt to get some legal advice.

I will have access to my contract tomorrow. It's in a lockbox which is in storage. From what I can tell though, it can be recouped via a 10 year loan with fixed interest (no ability to do federal loan programs AFAIK unfortunately - no PAYE/IBR/what have you). The contract actually says that they can pull me into the military immediately to serve my ADSO outside of the dental corps. I doubt they would though. I wouldn't think it would serve them to.

 

[HPSP Lost]

did your recruiting station not send you the instructions/offer to meet up with you to compile your packet?

Yes, but to an e-mail that was defunct because I failed to update them. Nobody offered to help me compile it, but I didn't ask for that. I just asked to have them look at it via e-mail once completed.

 

[schmoob]

IMO you did not make a simple mistake, but an extensive series of errors. You were also offered a second chance, and was unable to meet that deadline as well.

Although I am sympathetic to your difficult situation, I think you should consider the positives. Had you gone on AD and made comparable errors, your situation would have been worse. You would have likely been brought up on a number of charges in violation of the UCMJ, with possibly multiple specifications of some of those charges. Being a commissioned officer and holding a doctoral level education, the Commander or convening authority would likely not go easy.

I apologize if I am sounding abrasive, it is not my intention to rub salt in your wound which I know would be the last thing you need right now. I understand you are probably very upset, and you sound remorseful. I say focus your efforts on moving forward now along your new path. You don't have much leverage here legally, so you may be fighting an uphill battle.

Everything happens for a reason, and we live and learn. I'm not throwing random cliches out there, I mean it. I hope to see you post here a few years from now having achieved significant success both professionally and financially.

 

[USArmyHPSP]

@HPSPLost: You're not the first to have this happen. Here are the facts as you have outlined in ths thread:

1. You want to be in Service of choice as a dentist.
2. You have lost your scholarship due to your own violation.
3. You state that you have been offered the option of resigning your commission.

Here is a fact that you have missed. There is a distinct difference between the scholarship and the fact that you are now an obligated officer. The amount of scholarship benefits you receive(d) determine the amount of obligation incurred.

I recommend that y 9ou contact the entity that sent you the option of resigning your commission, relay that you'd rather not, and want to fulfill your obligation as outlined in your contract - as a licensed dentist.

In the recent past in the Army, it has been exactly that easy for several others in this situation - much to their chagrin. You see, they thought that by not applying, they would be allowed to re-pay the Army and not have to serve. They have found out that they still owe time and had no stipend for the last six months of school.

 

[HPSP Lost]

@HPSPLost: You're not the first to have this happen. Here are the facts as you have outlined in ths thread:

1. You want to be in Service of choice as a dentist.
2. You have lost your scholarship due to your own violation.
3. You state that you have been offered the option of resigning your commission.

Here is a fact that you have missed. There is a distinct difference between the scholarship and the fact that you are now an obligated officer. The amount of scholarship benefits you receive(d) determine the amount of obligation incurred.

I recommend that y 9ou contact the entity that sent you the option of resigning your commission, relay that you'd rather not, and want to fulfill your obligation as outlined in your contract - as a licensed dentist.

In the recent past in the Army, it has been exactly that easy for several others in this situation - much to their chagrin. You see, they thought that by not applying, they would be allowed to re-pay the Army and not have to serve. They have found out that they still owe time and had no stipend for the last six months of school.

I am calling today, so hopefully that is exactly how it happens. If I could continue exactly as the contract is laid out aside from applying to the AEGD that would be perfect.

 

[HPSP Lost]

IMO you did not make a simple mistake, but an extensive series of errors. You were also offered a second chance, and was unable to meet that deadline as well.

Although I am sympathetic to your difficult situation, I think you should consider the positives. Had you gone on AD and made comparable errors, your situation would have been worse. You would have likely been brought up on a number of charges in violation of the UCMJ, with possibly multiple specifications of some of those charges. Being a commissioned officer and holding a doctoral level education, the Commander or convening authority would likely not go easy.

I apologize if I am sounding abrasive, it is not my intention to rub salt in your wound which I know would be the last thing you need right now. I understand you are probably very upset, and you sound remorseful. I say focus your efforts on moving forward now along your new path. You don't have much leverage here legally, so you may be fighting an uphill battle.

Everything happens for a reason, and we live and learn. I'm not throwing random cliches out there, I mean it. I hope to see you post here a few years from now having achieved significant success both professionally and financially.

I'm not sure if I would consider my series of errors to be extensive - there were two and the first was related to the other. But I do see your point; the military is not a place were failing to follow protocol is acceptable. Hopefully things work out alright. I'll just have to see what they will do with me now. Thank you for the encouragement.

Edit: grammar

 

[vellnueve]

In the recent past in the Army, it has been exactly that easy for several others in this situation - much to their chagrin. You see, they thought that by not applying, they would be allowed to re-pay the Army and not have to serve. They have found out that they still owe time and had no stipend for the last six months of school.

Makes me sick that people try to pull stunts like that.

Back to the topic;

OP you should contact the HPSP office immediately and let them know your intentions. I'm assuming it's the Army based on your statement that application is required but acceptance is optional. Sounds like you can still salvage a chance to serve if you act promptly

 

[HPSP Lost]

They have found out that they still owe time and had no stipend

Makes me sick that people try to pull stunts like that.

Back to the topic;

OP you should contact the HPSP office immediately and let them know your intentions. I'm assuming it's the Army based on your statement that application is required but acceptance is optional. Sounds like you can still salvage a chance to serve if you act promptly

Yes. I am trying. I can't get a hold of the HPSP management staff I've worked with, but he is back at 1:00pm.

I also contacted the Human Resource Command contact provided with my termination paperwork, but they seem to only be involved in providing me with the forms to sign and explaining what each means. All the contact told me regarding the process was that most cases that come to her office result in separation.

I don't have any further contacts, but I'll try to find them.

 

[chill45]

Makes me sick that people try to pull stunts like that.

Back to the topic;

OP you should contact the HPSP office immediately and let them know your intentions. I'm assuming it's the Army based on your statement that application is required but acceptance is optional. Sounds like you can still salvage a chance to serve if you act promptly

Sorry to get off topic but my understanding was you had to apply for it in the navy too but acceptance was optional. Is that not the case?

 

[vellnueve]

Sorry to get off topic but my understanding was you had to apply for it in the navy too but acceptance was optional. Is that not the case?

That is not the case.

It is strongly encouraged, but not required. I recommend doing one especially if you may want to specialize in the Navy but just having an extra year of education at a full Navy salary is a great deal. I never would have considered OMS if I had not been exposed to full scope OMS in my program. Schools tend to have their own tendencies and may not expose you to all aspects of each specialty or even general practice. Getting the chance to learn other ways of approaching the same problems and getting more exposure to specialties outside the school environment is a huge advantage IMO.

With that said the Navy hasn't mandated applying to PGY1 at least since I've been in.

 

[BobbyBeavis]

That is not the case.

It is strongly encouraged, but not required. I recommend doing one especially if you may want to specialize in the Navy but just having an extra year of education at a full Navy salary is a great deal. I never would have considered OMS if I had not been exposed to full scope OMS in my program. Schools tend to have their own tendencies and may not expose you to all aspects of each specialty or even general practice. Getting the chance to learn other ways of approaching the same problems and getting more exposure to specialties outside the school environment is a huge advantage IMO.

With that said the Navy hasn't mandated applying to PGY1 at least since I've been in.

Would you recommend GPR over AEGD if OMS is a slight interest?

 

[vellnueve]

Would you recommend GPR over AEGD if OMS is a slight interest?

Absolutely.