Terrible GPA. Do I need postbac?

Started by iceman132
BU Medical Sciences
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iceman132

iceman132

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My adviser said to go and do postbac (Go DO or caribbean) and some medical school students said that was pointless and to just get a high MCat score.

Sitting on about a 27 for the MCat (Practice tests).

Basically.... with a 3.0 do I need to do postbac (Which would cause thousands more in loans) Or is it possible to get into a DO school with such a terrible GPA and a decent MCat score.
 
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iceman132 said:
I have a 3.0 undergrad GPA.

My adviser said to go and do postbac (Go DO or caribbean) and some medical school students said that was pointless and to just get a high MCat score.

Sitting on about a 27 for the MCat (Practice tests).

Basically.... with a 3.0 do I need to do postbac (Which would cause thousands more in loans) Or is it possible to get into a DO school with such a terrible GPA and a decent MCat score.
Click to expand...

whats your science gpa?
 
iceman132 said:
I have a 3.0 undergrad GPA.

My adviser said to go and do postbac (Go DO or caribbean) and some medical school students said that was pointless and to just get a high MCat score.

Sitting on about a 27 for the MCat (Practice tests).

Basically.... with a 3.0 do I need to do postbac (Which would cause thousands more in loans) Or is it possible to get into a DO school with such a terrible GPA and a decent MCat score.
Click to expand...

Plan:

1. Kill the MCAT (30+)
2. Retake courses you received a C in or lower (DO grade replacement policy) at local 4-yr or community college (4-year preferred)
3. Save thousands of dollars
4. ??????????????????
5. Profit.
 
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iceman132 said:
I honestly have no clue.

It isn't anywhere on my transcript. But I'm guessing around a 3.0 also. How do most people figure it out? Do they do it themselves?
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Yes, do it yourself. Look in this forum for a DO GPA Calculator. Then you just put in your classes and check off the box if its a science class. Not all classes you would think are science count as science, and some classes like Engineering do count. Look at AACOMAS instructions under coursework for the list of what qualifies and what doesn't.

Edit: Just cuz I liek you. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=839864
 
DrWily said:
Yes, do it yourself. Look in this forum for a DO GPA Calculator. Then you just put in your classes and check off the box if its a science class. Not all classes you would think are science count as science, and some classes like Engineering do count. Look at AACOMAS instructions under coursework for the list of what qualifies and what doesn't.

Edit: Just cuz I liek you. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=839864
Click to expand...

I just found that site as well LOL. Have you tried to open it? I tried with both Googe chrome and IE.

It may just be my computer. It does this with excel sometimes -_-;;
 
iceman132 said:
I just found that site as well LOL. Have you tried to open it? I tried with both Googe chrome and IE.

It may just be my computer. It does this with excel sometimes -_-;;
Click to expand...

Yea I used that one and I can download it fine using Chrome right now.
 
Sorry but I'm still a bit confused.

Can you tell me what is in a Sci GPA?

I'm guessing: Chemistry, Biology, Physics, Math, Biochem, Genetics, Microbiology? Ecology?
 
iceman132 said:
Sorry but I'm still a bit confused.

Can you tell me what is in a Sci GPA?

I'm guessing: Chemistry, Biology, Physics, Math, Biochem, Genetics, Microbiology? Ecology?
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Chem, Bio, Math, Physics are the foundations for your sGPA. So, yes Microbiology would count (as an example)
 
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iceman132 said:
This is VERY rough but I came out to 2.94 Science GPA
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You're in the same boat as me.

3.14 cGPA, 2.96 sGPA, but I have a 33Q mcat.

Do the things I listed above, pray for a good MCAT, and you'll get an acceptance. Maybe not this cycle, but if you work hard this year, and apply early next cycle, you have a good chance. I'm still praying this cycle for one acceptance. All it takes is one.
 
DrWily said:
You're in the same boat as me.

3.14 cGPA, 2.96 sGPA, but I have a 33Q mcat.

Do the things I listed above, pray for a good MCAT, and you'll get an acceptance. Maybe not this cycle, but if you work hard this year, and apply early next cycle, you have a good chance. I'm still praying this cycle for one acceptance. All it takes is one.
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What do you plan on doing for the next year?

I'm just not sure what I should do -_-;; Either work for my family (Show that the family unit is important) which the premed advisor said to do.... Or take more classes which he also said would be good.

Of course, I will retake the Mcat if I don't do well enough.
 
iceman132 said:
What do you plan on doing for the next year?

I'm just not sure what I should do -_-;; Either work for my family (Show that the family unit is important) which the premed advisor said to do.... Or take more classes which he also said would be good.

Of course, I will retake the Mcat if I don't do well enough.
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I'm currently looking for a job as an EMT while I work my desk jockey job right now. I'm going to retake some classes that I did poorly in (C's) at the community college because I can't take the university ones due to finance and time restrictions. I applied already, filling out secondaries now in hopes of getting in this cycle.

For you, how good are your Extracurricular/Volunteer experiences? I'd retake some classes if I were you to get that up to competitive range since you don't have a high MCAT to help compensate. Maybe work part-time and take classes?
 
DrWily said:
I'm currently looking for a job as an EMT while I work my desk jockey job right now. I'm going to retake some classes that I did poorly in (C's) at the community college because I can't take the university ones due to finance and time restrictions. I applied already, filling out secondaries now in hopes of getting in this cycle.

For you, how good are your Extracurricular/Volunteer experiences? I'd retake some classes if I were you to get that up to competitive range since you don't have a high MCAT to help compensate. Maybe work part-time and take classes?
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I did research for a year and shadowed a few doctors. (Got very good LORs from 2 of them). Also did a medical mission trip in high school.

What was the process of becoming an EMT? I was thinking of doing that for the semester instead of taking classes.
 
iceman132 said:
I did research for a year and shadowed a few doctors. (Got very good LORs from 2 of them). Also did a medical mission trip in high school.

What was the process of becoming an EMT? I was thinking of doing that for the semester instead of taking classes.
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Here in San Diego, there's an accelerated 1-month course to get your EMT certification. It was pretty easy as long as you pay attention in class and study for the exams. Pretty much as long as you remember to give everyone O2 then you'll pass.. Lol.. no seriously. It's not that hard.

If I were you, I'd try to get a community service EC that you can participate in once a week for a couple of hours.. like a local soup kitchen, or something along those lines. 2 hours a week and stick with it for a year or more. Also you might want to volunteer in a clinical setting involving patients like changing beds, taking vital signs, or whatever. I know you've shadowed, but I feel like volunteering at a hospital while not actively shadowing is still very good for your application. Same with that, 2 hours a week for a year.

You COULD volunteer like crazy and do 8 hours a day, 7 days a week and quit after 3 months, but generally that's not regarded as highly as 2 hours a week for a year.
 
DrWily said:
Here in San Diego, there's an accelerated 1-month course to get your EMT certification. It was pretty easy as long as you pay attention in class and study for the exams. Pretty much as long as you remember to give everyone O2 then you'll pass.. Lol.. no seriously. It's not that hard.

If I were you, I'd try to get a community service EC that you can participate in once a week for a couple of hours.. like a local soup kitchen, or something along those lines. 2 hours a week and stick with it for a year or more. Also you might want to volunteer in a clinical setting changing beds or whatever. I know you've shadowed, but I feel like volunteering at a hospital while not actively shadowing is still very good for your application. Same with that, 2 hours a week for a year.

You COULD volunteer like crazy and do 8 hours a day, 7 days a week and quit after 3 months, but generally that's not regarded as highly as 2 hours a week for a year.
Click to expand...

Volunteering sounds like a good idea. I only volunteered for 4 months at a local hospital.

Why do you think few pre meds become an EMT? Do med schools not think highly of it? (I would think it would be perfect to see what you're getting into) Or is it because of the low pay?

It just seems like going through a quick course and earning a small amount of money would be better then spending more then a grand for some more classes.
 
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iceman132 said:
Volunteering sounds like a good idea. I only volunteered for 4 months at a local hospital.

Why do you think few pre meds become an EMT? Do med schools not think highly of it? (I would think it would be perfect to see what you're getting into) Or is it because of the low pay?
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Honestly, it probably doesn't do very much to help you get in. Just having the EMT certification doesn't mean anything. If you have one, AdComs want to see you use it and get a job working EMT. Low pay, long hours put most people off. Most of the time as an EMT-Basic you just transport grannies and there's not much to learn. The education itself is great, but you won't use it 80% of the time. The only thing I'd say it'd be good for is if you really wanted to do emergency medicine, it's a nice insight into the pre-hospital care that patients will received before you take over.
 
DrWily said:
Honestly, it probably doesn't do very much to help you get in. Just having the EMT certification doesn't mean anything. If you have one, AdComs want to see you use it and get a job working EMT. Low pay, long hours put most people off. Most of the time as an EMT-Basic you just transport grannies and there's not much to learn. The education itself is great, but you won't use it 80% of the time. The only thing I'd say it'd be good for is if you really wanted to do emergency medicine, it's a nice insight into the pre-hospital care that patients will received before you take over.
Click to expand...

I'm really surprised that you just do really menial chores. I thought you would be in the ambulance most of the time.

I am really contemplating what to do at the moment.... Take classes at the local state university, become an EMT or give up on med school. -_-;;

I am thinking that becoming an EMT and finding a job may be the best option. However, IDK how much better that would be then taking more classes.
 
iceman132 said:
I'm really surprised that you just do really menial chores. I thought you would be in the ambulance most of the time.

I am really contemplating what to do at the moment.... Take classes at the local state university, become an EMT or give up on med school. -_-;;

I am thinking that becoming an EMT and finding a job may be the best option. However, IDK how much better that would be then taking more classes.
Click to expand...

Well, you are in the ambulance all the time. I can't speak for other cities or agencies, but there's only one 911 ambulance company in San Diego and they split up the EMTs between BLS (Basic Life Support aka Grannie Xport) and ALS (Advanced Life Support where you ride with a paramedic and do all the cool stuff). As a newbie EMT, you're on BLS for minimum 6 months. Then you have a chance at going up to ALS. There are other ambulance companies around, but majority do the same thing.. basic EMTs are bottom of the bottom.

EMT is nice to have, but I'd definitely retake classes over trying to become an EMT. Don't give up on med school if you really want to be a physician. No matter HOW BAD your stats are, you will make it in eventually if you want it bad enough. Everything you do now should be to increase your app to make AdComs believe in your commitment.
 
I would not recommend anyone to apply to D.O. school with either cGPA or sGPA under 3.0. If you are within 3.0-3.3 on cGPA, you should at least have a 3.5 sGPA and a higher than average MCAT (28+). If you're low on the sGPA (3.0-3.3), it's better to retake courses or get a 30+ on the MCAT.
 
DrWily said:
<snip>
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I saw your MD apps. I just wanted to let you know that you got rejected from Des Moines without them looking at your file because their machine automatically rejects anyone that has under a 3.0 in either cGPA or sGPA.
 
TriagePreMed said:
I saw your MD apps. I just wanted to let you know that you got rejected from Des Moines without them looking at your file because their machine automatically rejects anyone that has under a 3.0 in either cGPA or sGPA.
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Yea I figured. Still bitter that AACOMAS counts college courses taken during high school. I'd have over 3.0 if it wasn't for that.

It's ok. DMU wasn't very high on my list.
 
First, sign up for an AACOMAS account and enter in your grades to see what it comes out to. You will get your AACOMAS GPA (which can be different from your school's calculated GPA due to the retake rules etc) and your science GPA. That will give you a better idea of where you stand. It doesn't cost anything to set up an AACOMAS account and there is no obligation to apply/send things to schools.

Second, be cautious about what people on SDN say about what you need and what you don't need. I got 4 interviews with a lower cGPA than you, and am currently an OMS-I at an excellent school. Granted I had a decent MCAT and some healthcare related work experience, but all is not lost. Calculate your numbers, do well on the MCAT, and reevaluate where you stand after that.
 
fiznat said:
First, sign up for an AACOMAS account and enter in your grades to see what it comes out to. You will get your AACOMAS GPA (which can be different from your school's calculated GPA due to the retake rules etc) and your science GPA. That will give you a better idea of where you stand. It doesn't cost anything to set up an AACOMAS account and there is no obligation to apply/send things to schools.

Second, be cautious about what people on SDN say about what you need and what you don't need. I got 4 interviews with a lower cGPA than you, and am currently an OMS-I at an excellent school. Granted I had a decent MCAT and some healthcare related work experience, but all is not lost. Calculate your numbers, do well on the MCAT, and reevaluate where you stand after that.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the advice!

If you could give me a little more. I'd like to be a little more specific..

This is the issue that I am having right now....I am taking the MCat on Aug 12th and won't have the score back until mid September.

This is AFTER the time I can sign up for classes. My biggest concern right now is whether I should just take more classes or not. (Just work for the family and become an EMT)
 
Well, calculate your AACOMAS GPAs first. You don't need your MCAT score to evaluate your GPA. It will be important to know whether you have deficiencies in your sGPA or cGPA, and also if it would be more efficient to simply retake a class you did poorly in. You need to calculate of those alternatives and make a decision based on the numbers.

Also consult your school's withdrawal policy. It is possible you could register for classes and then withdraw with a full refund and nothing on your transcript if you decide before a certain date. That might be useful as well.

Best of luck!
 
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I would take more classes. I think adcoms (this is just my opinion) like I was an emt full time, developed a love for medicine and now am premed approach. Not I became an emt-b just to improve my application. For clinical exposure try cna, i got certified in two weeks, dont get more patient contact than that.
 
This was my GPA from AACOMS.

Cumulative is .1 more for some reason... Is that normal?

Any more help would be great.
 
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DrWily said:
Well how's your GPA trend? Bad at the start, then awesome later? or mediocre throughout? AdComs will look at this too.
Click to expand...

Great at first.... Terrible in the middle (aka a girl/working)... Good at the end (no girl/no working).
 
Well iceman, I'll have to let you know how it goes with me. I have a 2.98 sGPA, a 3.05 cGPA and a 27P MCAT. My apps are in and I'm waiting to hear!
 
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If you want it bad enough go out and make it happen!

I had a lower sGPA, and I got in first try, I attribute it to a great resume, above average MCAT, and (what I think is) an agreeable personality. I'm also an OMS-1 at an incredible school and loving every minute of it. And I will say that I don't feel disadvantaged by my GPA or anything. This is hard for everyone and after chatting with my classmates, I feel like I'm about to compete for one of the higher scores on our first exam next week. I don't get any sort of vibe that they're all doing any better than I am. that's not an attempt to bring my classmates down at all, I'm just pointing out that my undergrad GPA hasn't appeared to male me any less 'ready' for this than anyone else.

A lot of people here are going to say crap like "I advise you to wait a year and retake courses" or "you're wasting your time applying right now". Don't let some anonymous message boarder control your actions. Think it through and do what you feel is best for you right now.
 
SLC said:
If you want it bad enough go out and make it happen!

I had a lower sGPA, and I got in first try, I attribute it to a great resume, above average MCAT, and (what I think is) an agreeable personality. I'm also an OMS-1 at an incredible school and loving every minute of it. And I will say that I don't feel disadvantaged by my GPA or anything. This is hard for everyone and after chatting with my classmates, I feel like I'm about to compete for one of the higher scores on our first exam next week. I don't get any sort of vibe that they're all doing any better than I am. that's not an attempt to bring my classmates down at all, I'm just pointing out that my undergrad GPA hasn't appeared to male me any less 'ready' for this than anyone else.

A lot of people here are going to say crap like "I advise you to wait a year and retake courses" or "you're wasting your time applying right now". Don't let some anonymous message boarder control your actions. Think it through and do what you feel is best for you right now.
Click to expand...

Thank you! That is very encouraging. I sometimes feel my gpa was the nail in my coffin (I have my friends just give up because of a poor GPA)

I will apply this cycle and next cycle definitely.... I just need to figure out what I'm going to do if I don't get in this cycle -_-;;



timaq said:
Well iceman, I'll have to let you know how it goes with me. I have a 2.98 sGPA, a 3.05 cGPA and a 27P MCAT. My apps are in and I'm waiting to hear!
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Definitely keep me updated! What will you be doing for the next year if you do not get in?
 
With a sGPA <3, you wouldn't get an interview at my school. Instead of the post-bac, you'll need to repeat those courses that are dragging your GPA down.

If you've been a B- student in the sciences all the way through college, then medical school might be a bit too intense for you. Think about it.
 
Goro said:
With a sGPA <3, you wouldn't get an interview at my school. Instead of the post-bac, you'll need to repeat those courses that are dragging your GPA down.

If you've been a B- student in the sciences all the way through college, then medical school might be a bit too intense for you. Think about it.
Click to expand...

I know the reasons I got B's or C's college and it's not because it was too intense. It was because I was immature and chasing girls/ working. When I wasn't doing that I was getting all A's and maybe one B taking 18 hours of classes. I have learned from my mistakes.

From what my pre-med adviser has told me it is pretty pointless to retake classes. The best thing they told me to do is take upper-level classes which are medical school related and do well in them. (Why repeat courses you got a C in when you can show the schools that you are getting A's in courses which are the type they will encounter in medical school)
 
SLC said:
A lot of people here are going to say crap like "I advise you to wait a year and retake courses" or "you're wasting your time applying right now". Don't let some anonymous message boarder control your actions. Think it through and do what you feel is best for you right now.
Click to expand...

While I do agree with you, I think that right now it's getting very late in the cycle for a below average applicant. Generally if you are lacking in any area, you want to apply as soon as it opens up to give you the best chance. I think in general people want to apply once, and make it the best application they can versus having to become a reapplicant. We don't even know if the OP has a personal statement which can set him back a little bit, pushing his application into September, getting verified by Oct, submitting Secondaries by mid-late Oct, and he's already at a big disadvantage costing him a lot of money.

Iceman, is your personal statement ready to go? You can definitely apply this year, but if you do, I'd still be retaking classes and working on improving your application.
 
iceman132 said:
From what my pre-med adviser has told me it is pretty pointless to retake classes. The best thing they told me to do is take upper-level classes which are medical school related and do well in them. (Why repeat courses you got a C in when you can show the schools that you are getting A's in courses which are the type they will encounter in medical school)
Click to expand...

That's all good and stuff, but Med School is still a numbers game. Retaking classes will fix your GPA much much faster than taking more courses. Retaking some classes, and take an upper div class too. Best of both worlds if you can handle it with your other stuff going on.
 
DrWily said:
While I do agree with you, I think that right now it's getting very late in the cycle for a below average applicant. Generally if you are lacking in any area, you want to apply as soon as it opens up to give you the best chance. I think in general people want to apply once, and make it the best application they can versus having to become a reapplicant. We don't even know if the OP has a personal statement which can set him back a little bit, pushing his application into September, getting verified by Oct, submitting Secondaries by mid-late Oct, and he's already at a big disadvantage costing him a lot of money.

Iceman, is your personal statement ready to go? You can definitely apply this year, but if you do, I'd still be retaking classes and working on improving your application.
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Yes, I have a personal statement ready.

It's a long shot for me to get in this year.... I may just do EDP next year.

My 2 biggest issues are

1. Figuring out if I should take classes now or wait until the spring (Which may be my only option since fewer classes are becoming availible).

2. My Mcat will be graded by mid September. I need my LOR from my pre med adviser fairly quickly after that. IDK if I should just give him my practice scores or the real deal. (Just for the LOR).


p.s. Dr. Willy, how many hours per week do basic EMT's work? Is it always full time? 40+ hours or can you get part time? 20 or so hours per week?
 
DrWily said:
That's all good and stuff, but Med School is still a numbers game. Retaking classes will fix your GPA much much faster than taking more courses. Retaking some classes, and take an upper div class too. Best of both worlds if you can handle it with your other stuff going on.
Click to expand...

I will definitely speak about this to my pre med adviser (I doubt he would change his mind but maybe if I give him this argument). I really wouldn't mind retaking a class I got a C in while taking an upper level. It would actually be preferable.

Edit: THe other problem is I have so many hours already I doubt that a couple of grade replacements will raise my GPA all that much. (167 hours)
 
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iceman132 said:
I will definitely speak about this to my pre med adviser (I doubt he would change his mind but maybe if I give him this argument). I really wouldn't mind retaking a class I got a C in while taking an upper level. It would actually be preferable.
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Well, does he know about the grade replacement policy at Osteopathic schools? It's a pretty big deal. If I retook 4 of my classes, my sGPA and cGPA would go from undercompetitive <3.0, up to 3.3 competitive range. Only 4 classes. If I took 4 upper division bio classes, my gpa would go from like 3.0 to 3.15. Still unimpressive.

EMTs can work part-time. In San Diego though, most companies are looking for full-time. You work 12 hour shifts, 3 days one week, 4 days the next week for a total of 84 hours per pay period, 42 hours per week average. Part-timers bid on empty shifts that need to be filled, and work whenever they "want." I say that because you are obligated to work at least 3 shifts a month in order to maintain your part-time status. Starting out, you will probably get the crappy shifts, which are like 7pm - 7 am on the weekends.
 
DrWily said:
Well, does he know about the grade replacement policy at Osteopathic schools? It's a pretty big deal. If I retook 4 of my classes, my sGPA and cGPA would go from undercompetitive <3.0, up to 3.3 competitive range. Only 4 classes. If I took 4 upper division bio classes, my gpa would go from like 3.0 to 3.15. Still unimpressive.

EMTs can work part-time. In San Diego though, most companies are looking for full-time. You work 12 hour shifts, 3 days one week, 4 days the next week for a total of 84 hours per pay period, 42 hours per week average. Part-timers bid on empty shifts that need to be filled, and work whenever they "want." I say that because you are obligated to work at least 3 shifts a month in order to maintain your part-time status. Starting out, you will probably get the crappy shifts, which are like 7pm - 7 am on the weekends.
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I'm not sure if he knows about grade replacement. He was a dermatologist MD so IDK how much h knows about DO schools.

I know it won't be a lot but around how much does an EMT make? (I'm guessing it's an hourly wage)
 
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