Terrible GPA high DAT

[sjb2068]

Hello all,

I've been lurking the forums for a while but this will be my first post. Sorry if its too long
Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

I graduated from a high school program that allows its students to take college level courses at a 4-yr university. While attending this program, I completed most of the core curriculum required (such as bio 1 & 2, gen chem 1 & 2, physics 1 & 2, pre-cal & cal, etc.) and was able to transfer 57 credit hours to college.

I admit I was immature going into and out of college and these are not excuses to justify my actions in college but rather to explain my situation. When I was applying to college in high school, I only applied to one state college thinking that I will get in (I thought that I was the smartest person ever b/c I was taking college courses atm), and got waitlisted. In the end, they came through and I was very fortunate to be admitted as an undeclared major. During orientation, the school told me I could pick any major from the college of natural sciences. At the time, I was pursuing medicine following my friends. I picked my major as biochemistry during orientation b/c I thought biochemistry major sounded cooler than bio major.. stupid me. Starting my freshman year, I took mostly upper-division sciences b/c I had the 57 credit hours transferred previously. Did OK fall semester (3.2). At this point, I should've made changes to my study habits and strive to improve my grades, but me being me, I decided to join a social/service fraternity the following spring semester. My reason for joining a fraternity was to make connections and improve my social skills (I was a bit awkward in HS). While my social skills did improve a huge amount, my grades suffered tremendously. By this time, pursuing medicine was out the window. Throughout sophomore and junior year, my grades were erratic, ranging from D- to As. During the spring semester of my junior year, my family's financial situation wasn't looking great so I started working part-time to help pay for living expenses and worked the rest of the college until graduation. At this point, my goal was to graduate on time with no loans.

Graduated with a B.S. in Biochemistry (uGPA: 2.6 sGPA: 2.37) and a minor in Computer science in May 2015.

Following graduation, I've been working at a dental school in my city as a research assistant under the immunology professor of the school for a little over a year now. Also, I will have 2 publications by the end of this year. My decision to pursue a career in health-care was sparked again while working as a research assistant. With the suggestion of dentistry as a career from my professor, I began to seriously consider dentistry (his reason was that I had good hands and interpersonal skills) and thought it was a great fit for me. With a new-found motivation and direction, I prepared for the DAT while working full-time and got a AA 24/ TS 22/ PAT 22/ QR 29/ RC 23/ Bio 21/ GC 22/ OC 24.

In terms of EC/volunteering/shadowing: Volunteering (~200 hrs) from college but no volunteering since graduating from college. I started shadowing a general dentist in the area but only once a week for 3-4 hrs as they are not open on weekends and I work full-time on weekdays. I plan to continue shadowing until I rack up ~50 hrs at this clinic.

I do realize my GPA is way below competitiveness and a post bacc or a master program is a must to get there. I have researched many different programs out there and made a list of which might be best fit for me. I am worried that my stats are not good enough for these programs but I will give it a shot for this upcoming spring applications. My list of post bacc/masters programs are (in no particular order)
1. Tulane MS
2. SFSU Post Bacc
3. UNT HSC MS
4. Rutgers MBS (Newark and Piscataway)
5. Mississippi College MS
6. Boston U OHS
7. LECOM
8. G2
9. NOVA
10. Baylor A&M (URM only?)
11. UPenn
12. Rosalind Franklin

I guess my main 2 questions are:
1. Has anyone gotten into programs mentioned above with credentials similar to mine?
2. In calculating GPA, does undergraduate course work done in high school count towards your uGPA and sGPA?

Thanks in advance!

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[sjb2068]

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[mystery84]

Many of those programs are designed for students that need to improve their application or are changing fields and taking prereqs. You should be fine, apply early to a few programs. Write a decent statement explaining yourself and goals.

High-school is high-school, I can't think of any school that would care about that gpa and it's definitely not used in aadsas GPA calculations

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[sjb2068]

Thanks for the feedback mystery84!
Don't you think my cGPA and sGPA are too low to make the cut for most schools?
And from what I've read in different threads, TMDSAS and AADSAS both count the courses I took while in the program. I will have to double check with TMDSAS. However if that is the case, my overall GPA will hover over 2.9 and sGPA 2.77 and will be a huge help *fingers crossed*

 

[mystery84]

Sorry didn't read it carefully, you're gonna have to ask adcoms I'm not sure how they will handle those courses but since they were taken at a 4 year uni they should probably count.

I think you can manage an acceptance given your good Dat score, gpa is not the best but I've seen uglier. Call or email some of the advisors in those programs and see if they would be willing to advise you further.

When you get into a program make sure you work your butt off and shoot for a min of b+ in future coursework. Show them who you are now, cause no one cares who you were. They are more focused on if you can handle it and who you will become.

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[acesofseven]

I believe some schools have a minimum GPA requirement so you should check to see if any of the schools you're applying to have those.

 

[deleted740991]

(1) Your high DAT score alone will land you into a post-bacc or M.S. program.

(2) Your high DAT score alone will not land you into dental school.

(3) You will need a 3.0 sGPA minimum in any post-undergrad program.

(4) You need to do all of this before your high DAT score expires over an application cycle entry in 2-3 years.

(5) Expect a minimum 1 year turnaround with classes, perhaps 1.5-2 years.

All clear?

 

[DMDDDSHopeful]

(1) Your high DAT score alone will land you into a post-bacc or M.S. program.

(2) Your high DAT score alone will not land you into dental school.

(3) You will need a 3.0 sGPA minimum in any post-undergrad program.

(4) You need to do all of this before your high DAT score expires over an application cycle entry in 2-3 years.

(5) Expect a minimum 1 year turnaround with classes, perhaps 1.5-2 years.

All clear?

Well said. I would just state that a postgrad or MS GPA of 3.0 is not good at all. You need 3.5 or higher with 3.5 being average. That means you should have at least one A for every B+ on a 4.0 scale (assuming you are not attending those schools some post that their A's are 4.33).

 

[LuckBloodandSweat]

You gotta go for a 3.7/3.8+ postbacc/masters dude. That's an insanely good DAT and I'm shocked you did such a ridiculous amount during high school. I just... relaxed lol. This way when I ramped it up in college there was no previous burn out

 

[Cello]

You should add Midwestern to your list for a Master's. We have several D1 students who completed a biomed MS last year. They have the advantage of having taken a lot of the courses that we are doing first year.

 

[bwc]

I believe college coursework completed in high school may count. They do ask for transcripts from all post-secondary institutions attended, including those attended while in high school.

I believe AADSAS counts GPA in multiple different ways, including all coursework, only undergraduate coursework, only graduate/postbacc coursework, by institution, etc.

Some of these postbaccs that are meant to help make up for poor academic performance as an undergrad are meant to be like an audition for medical/dental school. You may be taking classes with medical/dental students, and you will be graded (while it may be just pass/fail for the actual medical/dental students). It would be your chance to prove that you can handle the coursework.

 

[dentalgem524]

Hello all,

I've been lurking the forums for a while but this will be my first post. Sorry if its too long
Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

I graduated from a high school program that allows its students to take college level courses at a 4-yr university. While attending this program, I completed most of the core curriculum required (such as bio 1 & 2, gen chem 1 & 2, physics 1 & 2, pre-cal & cal, etc.) and was able to transfer 57 credit hours to college.

I admit I was immature going into and out of college and these are not excuses to justify my actions in college but rather to explain my situation. When I was applying to college in high school, I only applied to one state college thinking that I will get in (I thought that I was the smartest person ever b/c I was taking college courses atm), and got waitlisted. In the end, they came through and I was very fortunate to be admitted as an undeclared major. During orientation, the school told me I could pick any major from the college of natural sciences. At the time, I was pursuing medicine following my friends. I picked my major as biochemistry during orientation b/c I thought biochemistry major sounded cooler than bio major.. stupid me. Starting my freshman year, I took mostly upper-division sciences b/c I had the 57 credit hours transferred previously. Did OK fall semester (3.2). At this point, I should've made changes to my study habits and strive to improve my grades, but me being me, I decided to join a social/service fraternity the following spring semester. My reason for joining a fraternity was to make connections and improve my social skills (I was a bit awkward in HS). While my social skills did improve a huge amount, my grades suffered tremendously. By this time, pursuing medicine was out the window. Throughout sophomore and junior year, my grades were erratic, ranging from D- to As. During the spring semester of my junior year, my family's financial situation wasn't looking great so I started working part-time to help pay for living expenses and worked the rest of the college until graduation. At this point, my goal was to graduate on time with no loans.

Graduated with a B.S. in Biochemistry (uGPA: 2.6 sGPA: 2.37) and a minor in Computer science in May 2015.

Following graduation, I've been working at a dental school in my city as a research assistant under the immunology professor of the school for a little over a year now. Also, I will have 2 publications by the end of this year. My decision to pursue a career in health-care was sparked again while working as a research assistant. With the suggestion of dentistry as a career from my professor, I began to seriously consider dentistry (his reason was that I had good hands and interpersonal skills) and thought it was a great fit for me. With a new-found motivation and direction, I prepared for the DAT while working full-time and got a AA 24/ TS 22/ PAT 22/ QR 29/ RC 23/ Bio 21/ GC 22/ OC 24.

In terms of EC/volunteering/shadowing: Volunteering (~200 hrs) from college but no volunteering since graduating from college. I started shadowing a general dentist in the area but only once a week for 3-4 hrs as they are not open on weekends and I work full-time on weekdays. I plan to continue shadowing until I rack up ~50 hrs at this clinic.

I do realize my GPA is way below competitiveness and a post bacc or a master program is a must to get there. I have researched many different programs out there and made a list of which might be best fit for me. I am worried that my stats are not good enough for these programs but I will give it a shot for this upcoming spring applications. My list of post bacc/masters programs are (in no particular order)
1. Tulane MS
2. SFSU Post Bacc
3. UNT HSC MS
4. Rutgers MBS (Newark and Piscataway)
5. Mississippi College MS
6. Boston U OHS
7. LECOM
8. G2
9. NOVA
10. Baylor A&M (URM only?)
11. UPenn
12. Rosalind Franklin

I guess my main 2 questions are:
1. Has anyone gotten into programs mentioned above with credentials similar to mine?
2. In calculating GPA, does undergraduate course work done in high school count towards your uGPA and sGPA?

Thanks in advance!

1. I just finished my MS from #5 on your list with a 3.9gpa )) it was really hard, but I looked at it as...THIS IS MY LAST CHANCE of getting into dental school. Studied my ass off (~6-10hrs daily)..the program is pretty rigorous. BUT I learned so much over the year and a half I was there. I learned the best studying style that worked for me and I was shocked that I could accomplish so much in that time frame. It really makes a difference! I'm applying this cycle. Plus the school is slowly starting to get recognition now, you may wanna hop on board haha.

Best thing is, the Dean will take just about anyone he sees potential in..no need for a 3.0 requirement or interview. Call the program and speak to Dr. Baldwin himself..tell him your story, he's super chill.


For reference my undergrad gpa was about 2.76 science/ overall...I partied too much in undergrad, but that was over 6 years ago lol so I'm paying for it now.

2. I am not too sure about this one. You may want to ask specific schools.


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[DMDDDSHopeful]

1. I just finished my MS from #5 on your list with a 3.9gpa )) it was really hard, but I looked at it as...THIS IS MY LAST CHANCE of getting into dental school. Studied my ass off (~6-10hrs daily)..the program is pretty rigorous. BUT I learned so much over the year and a half I was there. I learned the best studying style that worked for me and I was shocked that I could accomplish so much in that time frame. It really makes a difference! I'm applying this cycle. Plus the school is slowly starting to get recognition now, you may wanna hop on board haha.

Best thing is, the Dean will take just about anyone he sees potential in..no need for a 3.0 requirement or interview. Call the program and speak to Dr. Baldwin himself..tell him your story, he's super chill.


For reference my undergrad gpa was about 2.76 science/ overall...I partied too much in undergrad, but that was over 6 years ago lol so I'm paying for it now.

2. I am not too sure about this one. You may want to ask specific schools.


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I thought #5 was for in-state only.

 

[dentalgem524]

The MS program at Mississippi College is for everyone. We had ppl from Texas, North Carolina, Maryland, Oregon, pretty much from all over US, even ppl from overseas (Pakistan, Korea) . I love how diverse our program was, the atmosphere is perfect for studying and concentrating on bringing your GPA up, not many distractions, plus lots of volunteer opportunities and shadowing available. I'm from California and a lot of ppl i know from CA are moving there to complete the program as well before applying to dental or Med school. Best experience of my life so far in regards to my education. It's also much cheaper in Mississippi (rent is $400/mo and I lived in the nicest apartment a mile from campus) , you can save money especially since we as future dentists will have a lot of loans to pay back after we finish


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[sjb2068]

I appreciate everyone's feedback!
I have begun putting together my applications to several Masters/Post-bacc programs offering Spring 17 admission.
And as for my TMDSAS GPA calculation question, I have confirmed with TMDSAS that they do count the courses I took during HS, putting me in a much better position
Thanks everyone.

 

[sjb2068]

I'm not sure if I'm using the quote function correctly, but... @dentalgem524
I'm seriously considering MC as it seems it has a very affordable tuition/living costs. ($650/credit hr)(~$400 apt)
1. Was it a one bed/bath for ~$400?(that is ridiculously cheap!!)
2. Did you use federal loans to pay for your total costs? If so, approximately how much was the total cost for the year and a half you were there?

 

[dentalgem524]

It's $400 a person..for 3 bedroom apartment and 2 baths at The Reserve at Woodchase apartments.

You can even try to live at apartments across form campus my friend was paying a ridiculous $185 rent and had one roommate and their own bedrooms/ 1 bath. Pretty crazy cheap haha

I used federal loans and maybe around $30-35k.


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[rippedbx]

I had a terrible gpa and high DAT score. Your situation reminds me of mine, except you sound like you're a lot smarter than I am.

In 2008 I failed out of college mostly because I didn't want to put the time in. I went back to school and got straight C's for awhile and was about to graduate. I decided not to graduate and instead took many years off. I went back to school and instead of just taking a couple classes to graduate I retook nearly every class for 2.5 years. Got a 3.6 the second time around and graduated when I was 32. And when I put in my grades into AADSAS, my science GPA was a 2.75 because they don't replace grades, just average them. My DAT was a 19 and knew I needed to raise it because my AADSAS grades sucked so bad. So I retook it and got a 21.

There's a lot more to the story but you get the picture.

I was in the process of applying to MS programs when I got an interview at Roseman. They were much more concerned with the student I am now and not who I was in the past.

My point is this: where there's a will there's a way. But be realistic. Your grades suck pretty bad. But your DAT says you're bright and you can study and pass your dental boards. You just have to play their game get those AADSAS numbers up soon before your DAT score expires.

Have you considered just retaking undergraduate science classes? You could retake 40 science credits in a year and get a 3.5 if you wanted to. It would bring your science gpa to a 2.8 which is above many schools' 2.7 minimum requirement. After finishing upper-division science courses, retaking freshman level science classes is sooo easy to get A's in. It would be a ton cheaper than getting an MS too.

 

[sjb2068]

I have considered retaking undergraduate science classes, but I think Master's/formal post bacc program may be a better fit in my situation.
I have 57 hours from high school (that counts towards my uGPA) + 104 hours from college ~ 160 credit hrs putting me at 2.9 uGPA and 2.77 sGPA (thank god I meet the min sGPA). I have not done the math, but I definitely will need more than a year of undergraduate courses to bring up my sGPA to >3.0.

Also, I heard I will not be eligible for federal financial aid as I will be a non-degree seeking student. In order to qualify, I need to be in a program that hands out certificates or a degree. I will have to work full-time to cover tuition and living expenses and take 12+ hours a semester for a year, which seems like it wouldn't work out. (I'm not 100% sure about this, I will have to double-check)

Personally, I think doing a cheap master's or post-bacc and paying off the debt after dental school sounds like a better option. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[dentalgem524]

I have considered retaking undergraduate science classes, but I think Master's/formal post bacc program may be a better fit in my situation.
I have 57 hours from high school (that counts towards my uGPA) + 104 hours from college ~ 160 credit hrs putting me at 2.9 uGPA and 2.77 sGPA (thank god I meet the min sGPA). I have not done the math, but I definitely will need more than a year of undergraduate courses to bring up my sGPA to >3.0.

Also, I heard I will not be eligible for federal financial aid as I will be a non-degree seeking student. In order to qualify, I need to be in a program that hands out certificates or a degree. I will have to work full-time to cover tuition and living expenses and take 12+ hours a semester for a year, which seems like it wouldn't work out. (I'm not 100% sure about this, I will have to double-check)

Personally, I think doing a cheap master's or post-bacc and paying off the debt after dental school sounds like a better option. Thanks for the suggestion!

Do not retake undergraduate classes. Many pre-health advisors and dental schools I spoke to two years ago advised me to do a master's program or formal post-bacc and to NOT re-take classes bc...

#1 it doesn't make a huge difference in your gpa
#2 you are expected to do better (maybe even Ace it) because it is your second time taking it, of course.

Taking upper-level bio/sciences courses will prove to adcoms you can handle a rigorous curriculum that all dental schools have.

A master's program is definitely the route you should take, no doubt about it! It is definitely an investment to complete a Biomedical Sciences program, but you have to make sure you do well. At least a 3.7+ by treating it as if its your last chance!

Here is some more info about Mississippi College. I am not a spokesperson for it lol, but they truly have made me a better applicant and person. I moved there from CA Jan 2015 and started right away after applying to the program in OCT. I finished this May just in time for this cycle. So I am proud of this program and what it has done for me =) I have a few interviews this cycle and each time i received one I was shocked, yet felt blessed..because I think back at how hard i f****n worked. It makes it all worth it!

https://apps.aamc.org/postbac/#/program/251

Good luck in whatever decision you decide to make.