That class you just cant get an A in

[benrose]

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I'm sure most people here can relate... You know that class you just cant get a solid A in? I'm taking a Biology class right now, and if the teacher were to give an exam covering anything we have learned over the course, I guarantee you I would get a mid A on it, and yet I will probably end up with an A- overall. This is due to grades such as "Class participation" and "good conduct", and it seems like the way in which these values were assigned was totally arbitrary. Sorry this is turning out to be a rant. Anyone else dealing with this/has dealt with this in the past?

 

[dfib slim]

.

 

[SilverCat]

A class with a grade for good conduct? Sign me up.

Why do you think your grade will go down because of good conduct and participation? That's the easiest part of the course. Are you picking fights with the professor? Showing up late consistently? Talking/ texting/ facebooking/tweeting/ shopping for undergarments during class on your laptop/ iPad/ iPhone? If not, I can't see why you're worried about that part of the course lowering your grade.

 

[Stumpyman]

Generally, those random little bits like "attendance," "participation," etc, are easy points.

 

[Josh7]

Generally, those random little bits like "attendance," "participation," etc, are easy points.

Yep.

 

[benrose]

Generally, those random little bits like "attendance," "participation," etc, are easy points.

Yeah generally they are

 

[A Nony Mouse]

Just answer one question or ask one question per class and you should get 100% participation as long as you're showing up on time.

 

[Jarudy]

Biochemistry, easy to get B's, but the prof asks such minute details to separate the 90's.

 

[Bangersandmash]

Biochemistry, easy to get B's, but the prof asks such minute details to separate the 90's.

Amen. My biochem class has 3 exams. You can drop one and your grade is out of 200 points from your two highest scores. The tests are 30 questions each. There are two professors teaching different sections. The professor of the other section makes all of the questions for the tests. The final is cumulative. An A is cutoff at 92 (+/- is in play).

It's damn near impossible to miss less than 3 questions per test on half a book's worth of material. <5% of kids in a class of over 200 get A's every semester.

 

[Fedekz]

I'm taking a criminology class that has a grading scale of 95%+ is a 4.0, instead of the usual 93%.

It's pretty frustrating knowing that my grade is 94%, but it's still not good enough for an A. No extra credit points in the course at all either, and there are 25 quizzes through the whole semester, then a cumulative final.

Good luck having a 95%+ average over everything in the entire class...

 

[jd989898]

Luckily at my school you only need a 90% for a guaranteed A in almost every course. This makes it very easy to get a 4.0.

 

[EarthtoneJon]

A class with a grade for good conduct? Sign me up.

Agreed! Unfortunately, "participation" and "attendance" credit in college is sometimes more of a curse than a blessing, and in my opinion it needs to go.

As informed adults, college students should reserve the right to pioneer their own academic experience. If a students wants to use his or her other available resources (like that $300 textbook, or slides available online) he or she should be free to do so without penalty.

I went to a small state school where participation and attendance were often strictly enforced, and with shameful outcomes. For example, it was the English Department's policy to deduct a half letter grade from the final grade (e.g. from an A- to a B+) for every absence in excess of 2. I had no problem adhering to the policy, fortunately. But for goodness sake, what if I had other priorities? What if I needed to be somewhere else, and couldn't produce a doctor's note, or other "proof" to satisfy the sloppy adjunct, who knows nothing about my personal life? I can recall actually having to bring my Zoology professor a newspaper clipping from my grandfather's obituary. I kid you not. I told the guy my grandfather died, and to please excuse my absence, and he said "bring proof or it will affect your grade." How demeaning. College students (with few exceptions) are adults. Deliver your material according to the syllabus, post your assignments, proctor your exams on schedule, and stop giving a rip about "participation" and "attendance." This isn't kindergarten.

 

[Josh7]

Calc Series. Calc I, II, and III (at least at my school) formatted their classes the same. 5% homework, 10% quizzes 85% exams. In some cases there would only be 5 questions on an exam and through silly mistakes I'd always end up about 10 points off from being careless.

 

[Bangersandmash]

Agreed! Unfortunately, "participation" and "attendance" credit in college is sometimes more of a curse than a blessing, and in my opinion it needs to go.

As informed adults, college students should reserve the right to pioneer their own academic experience. If a students wants to use his or her other available resources (like that $300 textbook, or slides available online) he or she should be free to do so without penalty.

I went to a small state school where participation and attendance were often strictly enforced, and with shameful outcomes. For example, it was the English Department's policy to deduct a half letter grade from the final grade (e.g. from an A- to a B+) for every absence in excess of 2. I had no problem adhering to the policy, fortunately. But for goodness sake, what if I had other priorities? What if I needed to be somewhere else, and couldn't produce a doctor's note, or other "proof" to satisfy the sloppy adjunct, who knows nothing about my personal life? I can recall actually having to bring my Zoology professor a newspaper clipping from my grandfather's obituary. I kid you not. I told the guy my grandfather died, and to please excuse my absence, and he said "bring proof or it will affect your grade." How demeaning. College students (with few exceptions) are adults. Deliver your material according to the syllabus, post your assignments, proctor your exams on schedule, and stop giving a rip about "participation" and "attendance." This isn't kindergarten.

Colleges often forget most people are actually PAYING for a SERVICE.

 

[EarthtoneJon]

Colleges often forget most people are actually PAYING for a SERVICE.

Exactly.

 

[Palam]

It was orgo 1 and 2 for me. Amazing professor who knew everything (he's been doing this stuff for 50 years) but the grading was something like 10% homework, 15% quizzes, and 75% tests.

I'm sure people got A's but man was it hard. Luckily the final exams were fair. The regular exams not so much.

I've heard of people getting cheat sheets for orgo! that's crazy

 

[mimelim]

Colleges often forget most people are actually PAYING for a SERVICE.

So then stop paying, leave and let someone else take your spot in the class. I don't think the school will have a hard time replacing you.

 

[Palam]

So then stop paying, leave and let someone else take your spot in the class. I don't think the school will have a hard time replacing you.

 

[Calad]

Psych classes, for some reason that material can be so dry

 

[thelullaby99]

.

 

[Poetic Silence]

What really gets to me is a professor or instructor who is not passionate and motivated about what they teach.

It's really difficult for me to learn from someone like that.

 

[Bangersandmash]

So then stop paying, leave and let someone else take your spot in the class. I don't think the school will have a hard time replacing you.

I'm on scholarship, so I don't have a right to complain about anything

We both know practically speaking, people can't do that. It's just sad to see prices inflating so much for tuition when quality is dropping.

 

[RomanTaylor]

ALL of my engineering classes. God damn if I wasn't so reluctant I should have switched major.

Amen.

Edit: I should clarify, though, that I absolutely love my major.

 

[circulus vitios]

So then stop paying, leave and let someone else take your spot in the class. I don't think the school will have a hard time replacing you.

What does being a sycophant get you that a normal person can't get?

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Psych classes, for some reason that material can be so dry

Nah uh its very interesting! Some of it can be a little abstract though.😀

 

[Romz]

It was orgo 1 and 2 for me. Amazing professor who knew everything (he's been doing this stuff for 50 years) but the grading was something like 10% homework, 15% quizzes, and 75% tests.

I'm sure people got A's but man was it hard. Luckily the final exams were fair. The regular exams not so much.

I've heard of people getting cheat sheets for orgo! that's crazy

I hear you.

My Orgo's and Biochem.

Orgo II was tough. Went into the final with an A- and got slaughtered...Ended up with a B-. It was the last of three consecutive finals and my toughest one at that. I thought two days of non-stop cramming mechanisms would save me. It didn't.

My biochem teacher was against giving A's. We were a small class of about 70 and only 4 people managed an A. Her marking was disgustingly arbitrary; no coherent scheme and no valid excuses as to why points where taken off. Explains the 56% class average. Didn't give a **** enough to curve it, either. Ended up with a B+ in a class i deserved at least an A.

Then there are my two wonderful classes I got 79.8 and 79.91. Both profs where adamant about not rounding up so I got a B+ instead of the A -.

My other courses went well. Those B's put a dent in what could've been a fantastic start to my undergraduate studies. Making up for it now, I guess. Hopefully adcoms can stomach by ORGO II mark. I'll have to do well in BS on the MCAT. 😳

 

[JeremiahStone]

Luckily at my school you only need a 90% for a guaranteed A in almost every course. This makes it very easy to get a 4.0.

But when you apply for med-school wont they look at it on a different grading scale?

 

[jd989898]

Not sure. I have above a 100% in every class anyway, but I doubt my school even saves your percentage earned in the course after your letter grade is assigned.

 

[Bangersandmash]

But when you apply for med-school wont they look at it on a different grading scale?

I doubt it. At my university, it's based on my professor's policies. Half my classes are +/-, half aren't. How would they account for that?

 

[JeremiahStone]

I doubt it. At my university, it's based on my professor's policies. Half my classes are +/-, half aren't. How would they account for that?

Hmm thats true..

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Not sure. I have above a 100% in every class anyway, but I doubt my school even saves your percentage earned in the course after your letter grade is assigned.

No they won't. If its an A, its an A.

 

[Barcu]

Agreed! Unfortunately, "participation" and "attendance" credit in college is sometimes more of a curse than a blessing, and in my opinion it needs to go.

As informed adults, college students should reserve the right to pioneer their own academic experience. If a students wants to use his or her other available resources (like that $300 textbook, or slides available online) he or she should be free to do so without penalty.

I went to a small state school where participation and attendance were often strictly enforced, and with shameful outcomes. For example, it was the English Department's policy to deduct a half letter grade from the final grade (e.g. from an A- to a B+) for every absence in excess of 2. I had no problem adhering to the policy, fortunately. But for goodness sake, what if I had other priorities? What if I needed to be somewhere else, and couldn't produce a doctor's note, or other "proof" to satisfy the sloppy adjunct, who knows nothing about my personal life? I can recall actually having to bring my Zoology professor a newspaper clipping from my grandfather's obituary. I kid you not. I told the guy my grandfather died, and to please excuse my absence, and he said "bring proof or it will affect your grade." How demeaning. College students (with few exceptions) are adults. Deliver your material according to the syllabus, post your assignments, proctor your exams on schedule, and stop giving a rip about "participation" and "attendance." This isn't kindergarten.

Seriously? You are in college, where your main priority is to take classes. While a significant of work and learning takes place outside the classroom, it really shouldn't be inconvenient to show up to class. To complain that this somehow is a burden is crazy. It's part of your grade to just show up to class! How hard is that?

More importantly, these types of things never go away. It really doesn't matter whether you think it's a good use of time or not. I have said this in other threads. Blowing off or complaining about something that is required, even if it seems unnecessary, reflects very poorly on you. If an adcom gets a whiff of this attitude, it's not good. Your entire professional life will have similar requirements. Being forced to attend things that don't seem worth your time is part of the territory (pretty much in any profession).

And give professors a break. They have been dealing with students trying to get out of stuff for years. Don't take it so personally if they don't believe you or don't give you the benefit of the doubt. It's not an indictment of your character.

This isn't directly targeted at you personally. It's for everyone. Everyone seems to think everything needs to be perfectly suited for their own convenience. It doesn't work that way.

 

[dfib slim]

.

 

[benrose]

Seriously? You are in college, where your main priority is to take classes. While a significant of work and learning takes place outside the classroom, it really shouldn't be inconvenient to show up to class. To complain that this somehow is a burden is crazy. It's part of your grade to just show up to class! How hard is that?

More importantly, these types of things never go away. It really doesn't matter whether you think it's a good use of time or not. I have said this in other threads. Blowing off or complaining about something that is required, even if it seems unnecessary, reflects very poorly on you. If an adcom gets a whiff of this attitude, it's not good. Your entire professional life will have similar requirements. Being forced to attend things that don't seem worth your time is part of the territory (pretty much in any profession).

And give professors a break. They have been dealing with students trying to get out of stuff for years. Don't take it so personally if they don't believe you or don't give you the benefit of the doubt. It's not an indictment of your character.

This isn't directly targeted at you personally. It's for everyone. Everyone seems to think everything needs to be perfectly suited for their own convenience. It doesn't work that way.

I agree with you 100%. I try to get the most out of my experience here in high school, and skipping out on classes that you are paying for is pretty stupid. I was just a little frustrated that this participation grade doesn't really seem to be following any formula (even seemed a little subjective to me). Honestly, I think it was randomly assigned. I show up every day, early, take notes, 'participate'. And that's not enough. Wont be taking another class from this professor.

 

[Barcu]

I agree with you 100%. I try to get the most out of my experience here in undergrad, and skipping out on classes that you are paying for is pretty stupid. I was just a little frustrated that this participation grade doesn't really seem to be following any formula (even seemed a little subjective to me). Honestly, I think it was randomly assigned. I show up every day, early, take notes, 'participate'. And that's not enough. Wont be taking another class from this professor.

My post was directed at the idea that going to class should be optional, so it wasn't meant to address your OP.

Sorry about the class. Sometimes you just get one of those professors. It may be a bit late now, but usually professors are much more willing to tell you how to improve if you approach them earlier. Either don't take the professor again. Or if you have to, ask them at the beginning what they expect for you to get full points.

 

[Irish Football]

P-chem.

 

[Poetic Silence]

I saw this ridiculous letter the other day as I was digging in the recycling bin at school for scratch paper. It was a neatly typed up excuse for missing a class that was so stupid, I wanted to punch something.

This girl couldn't attend a class because of "severe arachnophobia" and being "held hostage" by a spider in her room.

It was so dramatic and elaborately written that I pitied the student not for her "severe arachnophobia," but for her huge entitlement complex.

 

[Spinach Dip]

I saw this ridiculous letter the other day as I was digging in the recycling bin at school for scratch paper. It was a neatly typed up excuse for missing a class that was so stupid, I wanted to punch something.

This girl couldn't attend a class because of "severe arachnophobia" and being "held hostage" by a spider in her room.

It was so dramatic and elaborately written that I pitied the student not for her "severe arachnophobia," but for her huge entitlement complex.

If someone can write dramatically and elaborately about severe arachnophobia, they are probably a poetry or theatre major. Either way, she will eventually pay for that laziness and sense of entitlement.

 

[Stumpyman]

Seriously? You are in college, where your main priority is to take classes. While a significant of work and learning takes place outside the classroom, it really shouldn't be inconvenient to show up to class. To complain that this somehow is a burden is crazy. It's part of your grade to just show up to class! How hard is that?

More importantly, these types of things never go away. It really doesn't matter whether you think it's a good use of time or not. I have said this in other threads. Blowing off or complaining about something that is required, even if it seems unnecessary, reflects very poorly on you. If an adcom gets a whiff of this attitude, it's not good. Your entire professional life will have similar requirements. Being forced to attend things that don't seem worth your time is part of the territory (pretty much in any profession).

And give professors a break. They have been dealing with students trying to get out of stuff for years. Don't take it so personally if they don't believe you or don't give you the benefit of the doubt. It's not an indictment of your character.

This isn't directly targeted at you personally. It's for everyone. Everyone seems to think everything needs to be perfectly suited for their own convenience. It doesn't work that way.

I agree with this in theory, but in reality you're paying a large sum of money, so you should be able to pave your own college career rather than be told to go attend most classes. It seems easy to attend class, but in reality, some people work multiple jobs and really have more important things on their minds. Hence why, people should pave their own college careers.

(And I'm a regular class attender)

 

[Barcu]

I agree with this in theory, but in reality you're paying a large sum of money, so you should be able to pave your own college career rather than be told to go attend most classes. It seems easy to attend class, but in reality, some people work multiple jobs and really have more important things on their minds. Hence why, people should pave their own college careers.

(And I'm a regular class attender)

What the attitude signifies is that you think your time is more valuable than someone else's. Sure, not every professor loves to teach. However, you are in their class, and they are taking the time to lecture and give you assignments. That's what you sign up for. If they think you need to show up to class, then you need to show up to class. It's true that you are paying a lot of money to be there, but that doesn't mean you get to dictate the terms. Going to college is worthless unless you play by their rules and get a degree. If something is required, you need to do it, even if you think it's not the best way to do things.

I also get that there are other commitments. However, when you go to college, your primary focus should be school. I know that's not the easiest thing in the world to do for some, but that's the expectation.

 

[Bangersandmash]

I agree with this in theory, but in reality you're paying a large sum of money, so you should be able to pave your own college career rather than be told to go attend most classes. It seems easy to attend class, but in reality, some people work multiple jobs and really have more important things on their minds. Hence why, people should pave their own college careers.

(And I'm a regular class attender)

Barcu summed it up pretty nicely. I know people have to work, but if you are going to school and have a job, you should plan in advance to make sure those two things can be reconciled. You're paying a university for a service - not a completely customizable unique experience. You can't expect to dictate your own schedule just because you pay a tuition fee. What you should be able to expect is a good class that teaches you what you need to know for your area of study, but you have to accept that it will be at the scheduling of the service provider, since they cannot cater to hundreds of individuals all taking one class.

 

[futurepremed]

Colleges often forget most people are actually PAYING for a SERVICE.

state colleges forget that, because they're funded by tax dollars. customer service is of little concern when government-rationed-services are doled out.


private schools/universities will always have better quality, facilities and variety for their diverse customer-base. market competition and voluntary exchange at work.

 

[futurepremed]

I went to a small state school where participation and attendance were often strictly enforced, and with shameful outcomes. For example, it was the English Department's policy to deduct a half letter grade from the final grade (e.g. from an A- to a B+) for every absence in excess of 2. I had no problem adhering to the policy, fortunately. But for goodness sake, what if I had other priorities? What if I needed to be somewhere else, and couldn't produce a doctor's note, or other "proof" to satisfy the sloppy adjunct, who knows nothing about my personal life? I can recall actually having to bring my Zoology professor a newspaper clipping from my grandfather's obituary. I kid you not. I told the guy my grandfather died, and to please excuse my absence, and he said "bring proof or it will affect your grade." How demeaning. College students (with few exceptions) are adults. Deliver your material according to the syllabus, post your assignments, proctor your exams on schedule, and stop giving a rip about "participation" and "attendance." This isn't kindergarten.

source of problem detected: state schools = rationing + socialization of cost[guaranteed tax funding] + zero customer service/quality assurance 👎

 

[Planes2Doc]

I used Rate My Professor and an internal rating source to find professors/classes where I would get the best grades. Sometimes you'll surprise yourself when you get a poorly-related professor that is actually pretty easy. Sometimes people tend to grade difficult professors well if they really like them, but take B's and C's as a result.

An easy way to put it is: I like my professors the way I like my women, easy and to the point. 😉

 

[IslandStyle808]

I used Rate My Professor and an internal rating source to find professors/classes where I would get the best grades. Sometimes you'll surprise yourself when you get a poorly-related professor that is actually pretty easy. Sometimes people tend to grade difficult professors well if they really like them, but take B's and C's as a result.

An easy way to put it is: I like my professors the way I like my women, easy and to the point. 😉

I admit that I too use rate my professor. The toughness of the professors (as everyone knows) is not accurate on the site (due to personal bias of course). However, I still tend to pick the professors that are rated better. It is mainly because of the "like-ability" factor of the professor. I feel I could get a good LOR from professor that people like more (this true more often than not). Also, I don't use it to find easy professors but fair professors.

 

[EarthtoneJon]

your main priority is to take classes

I will decide that.

Blowing off or complaining about something that is required, even if it seems unnecessary, reflects very poorly on you. If an adcom gets a whiff of this attitude, it's not good. Your entire professional life will have similar requirements.

I disagree. As it turns out, this issue is not so much of a given (something that we ought to accept in order to avoid being labeled a "complainer") as you might think. It comes up all the time in academic forums. In college, I had a calculus professor give a similar spiel before class one day. He was not complaining, just trying to improve his profession. Well, at least history shows that what was once "required" of us remains rational in contemporary minds. 🙄 LOL sorry for the cutting sarcasm. The ad coms apparently haven't smelled anything yet, because I keep getting acceptance letters...LOL, more meanness, but I can't resist. Sorry!

And give professors a break.

Gladly. I am a professor. And yes, I deal with students trying to "get out of stuff" all the time, so point taken.

Everyone seems to think everything needs to be perfectly suited for their own convenience.

I'm not worried so much about convenience, in this case, as the need to remove unnecessary strains and constraints on higher education. If departments deleted the "attendance" column in the Excel spreadsheet they use to calculate your numeric grade, the only people it would be more "convenient" for are professors who will no longer have to take out the diaper bag, identify the students present in their classroom / lecture hall, and mark their grade books accordingly. For the student, it may or may not be more convenient. The bottom line is, using attendance as part of the grading process introduces a bias.

This isn't directly targeted at you personally.

No worries comrade, all in the spirit of debate.

 

[EarthtoneJon]

You're paying a university for a service - not a completely customizable unique experience.

Agreed. Which is why we aren't allowed to modify the syllabus, swap professors, cut chapters out of the textbook, rewrite chapters in the textbook, move the parking garage closer to the building, or dictate what days and times the classes are offered. What is customizable is my time. I spend it how I want. I pay the university in order to become eligible for credits, and eventually, a degree. I do not pay the university to customize my time in some mock assurance that I will perform better in my field of study. In other words, I don't believe I should be penalized for spending my time in what the university deems is an unwise fashion, as it pertains to earning those credits. Once I pay my bill, I owe them nothing, and they owe me nothing, unless I satisfy the requirements for credits or a degree. Sorry if my view is somewhat business transaction-ish. I feel it is the only way to keep biases out of the grading system!

they cannot cater to hundreds of individuals all taking one class

And they absolutely should not. Which is why they should stop worrying at all if students come to class. Labs and other sessions where performance based evaluations are the only natural way to give a grade- that's a different story.

futurepremed made a great point about state schools. Yes- their administrative decisions are guided by earning more funding. If by skipping class, a student's grade will be reduced (or if the threat exists,) he or she will more likely come to class, and will more likely earn a better grade. And of course, you know what that means for the state university. $$$

 

[Barcu]

I disagree. As it turns out, this issue is not so much of a given (something that we ought to accept in order to avoid being labeled a "complainer") as you might think. It comes up all the time in academic forums. In college, I had a calculus professor give a similar spiel before class one day. He was not complaining, just trying to improve his profession. Well, at least history shows that what was once "required" of us remains rational in contemporary minds. 🙄 LOL sorry for the cutting sarcasm. The ad coms apparently haven't smelled anything yet, because I keep getting acceptance letters...LOL, more meanness, but I can't resist. Sorry!

I have no problem with complaining (or I guess more "pointing out the flaws") in a system in an attempt to improve it. It's really about the attitude you portray. Premeds are notorious for trying to check boxes and putting in a lazy effort to do so (in volunteer opportunities or research labs). People have to take responsibility for their commitments, meaning that if a professor wants you to go to class, you should go to class. My argument isn't that it is a good thing to have mandatory attendance. My argument is that you will always be required to do things that you feel are unnecessary or a waste of time. And if you give off that vibe, then it could end up badly for you. This sort of thing never goes away, so you might as well get used to it. In the end, being required to go to class should not be a burden.

You may think that you can decide what your priorities are (and you can) but the expectation is that going to school is your priority. That's why you are paying to attend there. If you can balance other priorities with that, good for you. However, the school does not need to grant you the freedom to do so. That's on you to sort out. Again, I'm not arguing that schools should force you to spend this time and go to class. But that's the reality of the situation.

I'm not worried so much about convenience, in this case, as the need to remove unnecessary strains and constraints on higher education. If departments deleted the "attendance" column in the Excel spreadsheet they use to calculate your numeric grade, the only people it would be more "convenient" for are professors who will no longer have to take out the diaper bag, identify the students present in their classroom / lecture hall, and mark their grade books accordingly. For the student, it may or may not be more convenient. The bottom line is, using attendance as part of the grading process introduces a bias.

You make it sound like every professor wants to get rid of the attendance requirement. I'm not so sure that's the case. If they did, I'm sure they could find ways around making sure you are in class everyday.

I also am not sure that counting attendance always introduces a bias. In many cases, it's simply a number, so that's not true. Furthermore, I'm sure a professor could find other ways to introduce bias into grading. Bias is another fact of life that never goes away.

I see how you are approaching this. I saw you refer to this as a "business transaction" to another poster. There's nothing wrong with that, but you aren't in a position to negotiate a good deal from the school. Your approach is too business-like. It would make sense to implement reforms that increase efficiency and eliminate bias. Too bad we are human. You may find parts of the medical world frustrating. 👍

 

[EarthtoneJon]

You may find parts of the medical world frustrating. 👍

May? Worked through college as a CNA. Foley catheters, dementia, and piles of care plans. Frustrating!

Good stuff in your last post!

Respect.

 

[Bangersandmash]

Agreed. Which is why we aren't allowed to modify the syllabus, swap professors, cut chapters out of the textbook, rewrite chapters in the textbook, move the parking garage closer to the building, or dictate what days and times the classes are offered. What is customizable is my time. I spend it how I want. I pay the university in order to become eligible for credits, and eventually, a degree. I do not pay the university to customize my time in some mock assurance that I will perform better in my field of study. In other words, I don't believe I should be penalized for spending my time in what the university deems is an unwise fashion, as it pertains to earning those credits. Once I pay my bill, I owe them nothing, and they owe me nothing, unless I satisfy the requirements for credits or a degree. Sorry if my view is somewhat business transaction-ish. I feel it is the only way to keep biases out of the grading system!



And they absolutely should not. Which is why they should stop worrying at all if students come to class. Labs and other sessions where performance based evaluations are the only natural way to give a grade- that's a different story.

futurepremed made a great point about state schools. Yes- their administrative decisions are guided by earning more funding. If by skipping class, a student's grade will be reduced (or if the threat exists,) he or she will more likely come to class, and will more likely earn a better grade. And of course, you know what that means for the state university. $$$

I don't think I need to tell anyone else in college that class attendance doesn't always correlate with better grades. Most kids don't even pay attention when they do attend. In most of my lecture classes, I read the news or do other work most of the time and occasionally look up to note a question that might be on the exam. There are also some classes I don't go to and get higher grades than regular attenders.

Most large lectures at my university don't have mandatory attendance. A few professors demand it with the use of clickers or roll call. Some classes you need to attend to do well. That's the point of a class.

If you want a do as you please learning experience, go pay a for-profit institution to take classes online at your convenience. That's why they exist. If you're going to turn around and tell me they have inferior education and you want a degree from a reputable university, well THAT'S WHY YOU MIGHT HAVE TO GO TO CLASS ON THEIR TIME. For profit, go at your own pace degrees exist.

It sounds like you have a classic case of the have your cake and eat it too itis. For someone who thinks of it in such a business-like manner, you should brush up on the concept of consumer choice. If you don't like the schedule and time commitment your university is asking for, you don't have to pay them.