the "average" applicant for top tier programs

[bowlofmushypeas]

Anyone have thoughts on the "typical" applicant who is competitive for top tier programs (CHOP, CHLA, Boston's, etc)? I know responses will have to be taken with a grain of salt since there's a spectrum, but it's been difficult figuring out where I stand in terms of what programs to apply for, and searching old threads hasn't been very fruitful. Thanks!

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[Slade]

It is annoying that programs don't publish stats on their incoming residents. It would be nice to know so as to have some sort of approximation of our competitiveness for different programs.

 

[pinarello]

If you're not sure whether or not you're competitive for a particular program, apply to it. I probably wouldn't have gotten the interviews that I got hadn't I simply just applied and hoped for the best. I did get rejected from CHOP, Boston Children's, Hopkins, but I got interviews at places like UCSF, Michigan, Cornell.

You can always cancel interviews as you get more desirable ones. Canceling an interview isn't a sign of disrespect or come off snooty. Everybody does it, so don't feel bad about it. One last burden: you're probably worried about costs, which is a valid concern. All I can offer is that sometimes peace of mind is worth the extra dollars.

Good luck!

 

[michigangirl]

It is annoying that programs don't publish stats on their incoming residents. It would be nice to know so as to have some sort of approximation of our competitiveness for different programs.

I think it's good that programs don't publish their stats. There is too much heterogeneity-- unlike admission to med school, residency programs have a more "wide-lens" approach to the applicant. So publishing stats may actually deter some folks from applying, who may be competitive based on other merits (research, performance in clerkships, letters, etc.)

 

[bowlofmushypeas]

I don't mean stats, I mean the is it pretty informally expected that applicants have published, been active in extracurriculars, etc during med school? I was personally activity heavy during high school and college, but purposefully decided to limit my participation in research and other activities during med school so I could focus on just learning. With apps around the corner, I'm trying to gauge how much my decision will realistically limit me. Not saying I regret how I've chosen to spend my time, but I would like a realistic assessment of general competitiveness.

 

[michigangirl]

I don't mean stats, I mean the is it pretty informally expected that applicants have published, been active in extracurriculars, etc during med school? I was personally activity heavy during high school and college, but purposefully decided to limit my participation in research and other activities during med school so I could focus on just learning. With apps around the corner, I'm trying to gauge how much my decision will realistically limit me. Not saying I regret how I've chosen to spend my time, but I would like a realistic assessment of general competitiveness.

Was replying to Slade's post.

No, it is not expected that you have published and been active in extracurriculars during medical school. In fact, it's pretty hard to get published during med school unless you have taken extra time/electives to establish a project, or are on the MD/Ph.D track. If someone is willing to add you on as a second/third author on a publication because you did some work, then great, but a first author publication is not easy to come by in med school with all the time you have to devote to book learnin' and clinical rotations during four years. In fact, many folks don't get to do any research time till 4th year when your apps are already in.

It's nice to have done some sort of extracurricular/community service, but its not expected that you are as active in med school as you were in college. There's just not time. I for example, coordinated the med stud Ronald McDonald House family food delivery program for two years, and did a semester long research project and presented a poster at a med school symposium fourth year. But that was it.

The key is to perform well in class and even more, in your clinical rotations and get great letters. This is the crux of the residency application, along with USMLE scores. If you bring other stuff to the table, great, but average/poor showings in the third year can't be compensated for by research and extracurriculars.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

I don't mean stats, I mean the is it pretty informally expected that applicants have published, been active in extracurriculars, etc during med school?

I think most medical students do have some sort of extracurricular activity outside of medical school (volunteer work, advocacy, special interests groups, etc.). I'm not sure it's expected, but I think most people do something besides just schooling. As far as research goes, that is not expected. Now, I'm not going to say that if you do research, there aren't more doors that are going to open up for you, but doing research in medical school and getting published is not the norm and not expected. But basically, anything you do that goes beyond just being a student makes you, the applicant, look more involved and interesting to the residency selection committees. And not only do these extracurriculars look fine on a CV, but generally, what is even more helpful is that the physicians and doctors you work with, can write glowing letters of recommendation, which by far is the most important think to residency selection committees.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Ha, michigangirl beat me to the punch.

 

[swim2006]

Was replying to Slade's post.

No, it is not expected that you have published and been active in extracurriculars during medical school. In fact, it's pretty hard to get published during med school unless you have taken extra time/electives to establish a project, or are on the MD/Ph.D track. If someone is willing to add you on as a second/third author on a publication because you did some work, then great, but a first author publication is not easy to come by in med school with all the time you have to devote to book learnin' and clinical rotations during four years. In fact, many folks don't get to do any research time till 4th year when your apps are already in.

It's nice to have done some sort of extracurricular/community service, but its not expected that you are as active in med school as you were in college. There's just not time. I for example, coordinated the med stud Ronald McDonald House family food delivery program for two years, and did a semester long research project and presented a poster at a med school symposium fourth year. But that was it.

The key is to perform well in class and even more, in your clinical rotations and get great letters. This is the crux of the residency application, along with USMLE scores. If you bring other stuff to the table, great, but average/poor showings in the third year can't be compensated for by research and extracurriculars.

I would concur after having just finished applications, interviews, and match day. In fact, I have a friend that did NO research and matched at CHOP.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Although I entirely agree with the idea that letters of rec are very important, it is also true that they read alot alike. Everyone is working at the level of an intern (or higher!), everyone is someone the home program would like to keep, etc, etc.

Therefore, in many cases it comes down more than one might think to the interview. Unlike med school interviews, no one is going to ask you about ethical dilemmas or your view of health care reform. They ARE going to try to see if you are enthusiastic about their program, city, call schedule (j/k), etc. I realize this isn't as precise as Step 1 scores, but it is very important.

Interviews matter, even, or especially, at this phase. As always, YMMV.

 

[jcu]

Unlike med school interviews, no one is going to ask you about ethical dilemmas or your view of health care reform.

Got quite a few of those /annoyed

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Got quite a few of those /annoyed

The silliness of interviewers never fails to amaze me.

Still, these are much less common than in med school interviews. Why does anyone care what a pedi resident applicant thinks about health care reform as far as selecting them for residency? The AAP supports the ACA but doesn't mandate that its members all do....

 

[soko23]

What types of characteristics do PDs look in the application before deciding whether or not to interview an applicant? Is it mostly board scores?

 

[Basil Ganglia]

What types of characteristics do PDs look in the application before deciding whether or not to interview an applicant? Is it mostly board scores?

I'm a senior faculty member at Boston Children's and I would say board scores are the least important aspect of the application for us because they don't correlate well with clinical ability or long term success. Our interns average about 255 but range from 201 to 288. Clerkship grades are very important. Most of our interns are in the top 10-15% of their class, particularly in the third year, but again there are significant variations. We interview and occasionally match people who are in the bottom half of their classes if they are amazing in other ways. We are very interested in personality, especially sense of humor, and in dimensions beyond grades: leadership, advocacy locally or internationally, research, or accomplishments in things like music, art, dance, athletics, creative writing and the like. We are also interested in applicants who have a passion and whose extracurricular activities correlate with that interest. In other words, applicants who want to do research should have a record of research, those who want to be advocates should have a record of advocacy, and so on. We certainly consider accomplishments prior to med school but we usually also expect extracurricular accomplishments during med school. But we recognize that some schools offer more time for such things and put more emphasis on them than other schools. Finally, letters are very important but particularly letters from experienced writers who know you well and write for many students (PDs, clerkship directors, senior clinical faculty, etc). And, of course, performance on an elective rotation in our program is extremely important if you do such a rotation.

Overall, I agree with the writers above who say that there is tremendous variation in the applicants we interview and match. It's the overall package rather than any one criterion that counts. We're looking for people who will have successful careers and be great colleagues, who will "fit" well in our program. I suspect that's true of everyone. So, if you're interested in a program I would just apply. Fortunately, there are a lot of good training programs in pediatrics. For most students it's not critical to be in any specific program, at least not for academic reasons. Hope that's helpful.

 

[pinarello]

288?!?!?!

 

[Irina73]

A website, Res match stats, shows data on the average characteristics of applicants who got interviews and did not get interviews at each program. It does not show whether the interviewees matched or not. The site uses self reported data and is mostly filled with IMGs, but it is interesting.