The best way to integrate AP/CP

[hzma]

Hello everyone,

I posted this already in another thread, but I thought I would repost it in its own thread to possibly hear more feedback on this topic.
What about the CP/AP integration?
Is 6mo/yr of both better,
or 2y/each separate,
or 1y AP, 1yCP, and 2yAP/CP 6 mo each?
What do you all think is best for learning?
The reason I ask is that one of my top choices has 2 yrs straight of each one- except in exceptions like if a resident is pregnant they'd schedule CP i the middle of the AP. So I really don't know.
AngryT, Pathdoc thanks for answering.

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[pathres2]

Hello everyone,
or 1y AP, 1yCP, and 2yAP/CP 6 mo each?
What do you all think is best for learning?
AngryT, Pathdoc thanks for answering.

I would favor a switch every 1-3 months. That way you keep sane, have time to catch up on sleep, and achieve maximum integration. People say that when you return to looking at slides (after taking some time off and "sleeping on it") you learn better as you can re-approach some things with a different perspective or a "fresh mind" so to speak.

Also, if allowed by your program, you can drop CP (or AP) after your first year or year and a half in the program without having lost any significant time doing other rotations (but having experienced CP enough to be able to make an educated decision about dropping it).

 

[Prairie]

This is also a subject that I've been struggling with. There are 2 programs that I absolutely love - one has alternating AP and CP rotations, one has 2 straight years of each. I'm leaning toward the one with alternating rotations simply because of the set-up. The other program, however, is wonderful in every other way. It's going to be tough deciding how to rank them. (Location really isn't an issue for me.)

 

[ChipLeader]

I'm curious which programs out there do 2 + 2 (2 years AP or CP and then 2 years of the other)...The only program I know of that does this is Stanford. Seems like the majority of programs out there have some sort of integration between AP and CP even if some years are heavy in one or the other.

 

[miko2005]

I'm curious which programs out there do 2 + 2 (2 years AP or CP and then 2 years of the other)...The only program I know of that does this is Stanford. Seems like the majority of programs out there have some sort of integration between AP and CP even if some years are heavy in one or the other.

Doesn't UWash do 2+2?? Or is it Wash U? I think there are other schools. I Stanford, but then again, I am AP only !!

 

[AngryTesticle]

I'm curious which programs out there do 2 + 2 (2 years AP or CP and then 2 years of the other)...The only program I know of that does this is Stanford. Seems like the majority of programs out there have some sort of integration between AP and CP even if some years are heavy in one or the other.

Brigham does this too. Even if you're AP/CP, everyone does two years of AP training upfront. This can be grueling for some folks and as pathdoc said, this can drive some people mad But, I don't regret my choice...it's all good

 

[ChipLeader]

Brigham does this too. Even if you're AP/CP, everyone does two years of AP training upfront. This can be grueling for some folks and as pathdoc said, this can drive some people mad But, I don't regret my choice...it's all good

Thanks AT - I forgot that Brigham does this as well. I'm not sure what format I'd prefer, but doing 2 years of AP upfront would be nice for a couple reasons - one you could switch to AP only with no problem if you were inclined to do so and two it would make for a pretty cush third and fourth year if you did CP as well....

Speaking of Brigham, what the heck happened to AndyMilonakis? He hasn't posted in a while...Did I miss something around here?

 

[pathres2]

Speaking of Brigham, what the heck happened to AndyMilonakis? He hasn't posted in a while...Did I miss something around here?

he has been consumed by rage...

 

[yaah]

The thing is, wherever you go, you will get used to it and accept it as normal. I highly doubt anyone picks a program specifically for this reason and if so I would tend to question their sanity. So just make sure the program knows what they are doing when they organize the training program and they give you enough elective time and vacation so you don't go nuts.

 

[AngryTesticle]

Thanks AT - I forgot that Brigham does this as well. I'm not sure what format I'd prefer, but doing 2 years of AP upfront would be nice for a couple reasons - one you could switch to AP only with no problem if you were inclined to do so and two it would make for a pretty cush third and fourth year if you did CP as well....

Speaking of Brigham, what the heck happened to AndyMilonakis? He hasn't posted in a while...Did I miss something around here?

I was AndyMilonakis I retired that account because I was just tired of it. I haven't really changed my behavior much (I think) but maybe you're dense and even a pissed off gonad can fly under your radar As pathres2 said, I have been consumed with the fiery flames of rage!

Nah, I'm not that angry in real life but come on, how goofy would it be if my new username was HappyTesticle or JoyfulGonad?

But back to the topic, I liked the 2 years of AP upfront for the very reason you suggested. As for now, I'm AP only. However, I realize that things may change and for some reason and by some chance, although infinitesimal, I might change to AP/CP. Doing 2 years of AP upfront afforded me the maximum flexibility to branch out into different career options while maintaining the constancy of the first two years of my training.

 

[beary]

UVA does 1 year AP, 1 year CP, 1 year AP, 1 year CP. I like the sounds of this better than 2 AP then 2 CP.

 

[ChipLeader]

I was AndyMilonakis I retired that account because I was just tired of it..

I thought as much but wasn't sure. I haven't been paying much attention to SDN the past few months, but that will change now that I'm starting my 4-week independent study anatomy elective.

 

[CameronFrye]

All of the setups seem to have their pros and cons and in the end it really isn't going to matter too much. I agree that you shouldn't make your decision based on this one issue.

 

[hzma]

thanks everyone, it just seemed to me that logically if you're sure you want AP/CP, that a consistant training of them both throughout would be better, I mean, won't you forget how to gross for example by the time you graduate? Also, you would have been exposed to CP early on so you can decide if you don't want to do it. And you don't go crazy the first two years. So somehow i felt it was important when deciding.

Although now that you all mention it, maybe I shouldn't be worrying too much about it. Maybe I'm over reacting.

AAAAAH! I wish this interview season was over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doing 2 years of AP upfront afforded me the maximum flexibility to branch out into different career options while maintaining the constancy of the first two years of my training.[/QUOTE]

What career options?

Thanks all!

 

[SLUsagar]

I'm curious which programs out there do 2 + 2 (2 years AP or CP and then 2 years of the other)...The only program I know of that does this is Stanford. Seems like the majority of programs out there have some sort of integration between AP and CP even if some years are heavy in one or the other.

overall, it doesn't really matter that much...as long as you go to at least a decent program, you'll be qual. patho regardless.

there are some programs though that during my interviews i found interesting in that they sorta found a compromise: UCSF and clev clinic (assuming things haven't changed) are 2 i can recall...there, you switch ap/cp/ap/cp every year; NO 2 year drought, while at the same time no constant 1-3 month switch.
but honestly, it's not that big a deal.

 

[LADoc00]

Prior to the "great realignment" during the path job market depression that closed numerous community/kaiser residency programs in the 80s and 90s, most community programs did both AP and CP simultaneously, everyday. Meaning you were "on call" for a lab section as well as cutting in/signing out surgicals (albeit a smaller number) and rotating autopsies. Essentially, practicing in residency as you would in a small/med. sized community hospital general path practice. Now we are left with programs that do 2-4 month blocks of autopsies (! this is absurd), 2-3 years straight of AP after you then dive into 2 years of CP before you take the boards/leave for your first job. Sound like a bad idea? It is. Nothing like showing up at your first job and explaining its been like 4 years since you did a brain cutting.

 

[LADoc00]

Hello everyone,

I posted this already in another thread, but I thought I would repost it in its own thread to possibly hear more feedback on this topic.
What about the CP/AP integration?
Is 6mo/yr of both better,
or 2y/each separate,
or 1y AP, 1yCP, and 2yAP/CP 6 mo each?
What do you all think is best for learning?
The reason I ask is that one of my top choices has 2 yrs straight of each one- except in exceptions like if a resident is pregnant they'd schedule CP i the middle of the AP. So I really don't know.
AngryT, Pathdoc thanks for answering.

Im assuming so you dont expose the fetus to formalin fumes so you do pure CP during the 9mos? or what?

 

[AngryTesticle]

What career options?

AP --> CP
AP --> subspecialty AP fellowship
AP --> postdoc

 

[yaah]

I also prefer the integrated approach. While doing a solid block of one rotation is nice and you learn a lot, once you are done that is it. No going back. I find it much more instructive to go back to a rotation later on in residency once you have experienced other parts of pathology. You relearn things (and often things stick more the second time around) and figure out what you need to know. But whatever. You can always go to a review session or something your final year of residency.

 

[drPLUM]

Prior to the "great realignment" during the path job market depression that closed numerous community/kaiser residency programs in the 80s and 90s, most community programs did both AP and CP simultaneously, everyday.

I'm curious about the "great realignment". Is this the reason for the betterment (though only slightly) of the job market these days? Some have posted on here that path residency slots should be decreased again. Would this basically entail the same thing? I know that someone has to gross in all the cases for the attendings to read and all but if programs want path to become more popular then it seems this is the way to go doesn't it? Umm.. of course that is after I match and all