The Chicken or the Egg?

[jbrice1639]

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So, I'm thinking to myself with how many people end up applying to 20-30 or more schools...what if everyone only applied to a few schools where they wanted to actually go...

i was thinking this because the rationale is that everyone applies to a ton of schools is to have a better chancge of getting into at least one based on the fact that each school receives a huge number of applications...BUT...the reason each school receives a huge number of applications is because everyone applies to a ton of schools...so what if everyone were to just pick no more than 10 schools that they really wanted to go to...then every school would receive significantly less applications, eliminating the need to apply to 20-30 or even more schools.

it's just a stupid theory, and of course it'll never happen...but it's just interesting to me that probably the number one reason we all apply to so many schools is that everyone else applies to so many schools... 😎

 

[AxlxA]

This idea is very interesting and I've thought of the same thing in terms of taking exams.

For instance:

Classes that grade on a curve must have a certain # of As vs # of Ds. So if the entire class would come together and everyone answer 10 questions they know for sure to, then they have 100% chance of getting 10 points on their test. If the whole class gets ten points each, then the teacher is forced to give everyone the same grade.

Now of course in reality, we've got too many pre-med gunners. Let's say everyone had to sign a contract saying they will only answer 10 questions, atleast one person will sign with a false name, screwing the entire class over with his better score. So this system does not work but in theory and on paper, it looks pretty.

So now the moral of the story is, everyone is out for themselves. They rather screw everyone over than to make everyone equal to them. Evolution has left us with the instinct to be better than the other, why surpress that when you can deceive others and scerw everyone over.

If everyone can work in unison like that, we wouldn't really need a government.

As per your situation, I KNOW i will be the guy who applies to 20 schools, even though everyone else is applying to ten. And if i am not the only one to do this, then most likely everyone is gonna apply to 20 instead of 10. Then those few who did apply to 10 would feel stupid to trust other people like this.

Some of the things i said probably didn't make any sense. I'm not very articulate.

 

[glp]

welcome to the world of behavioral economics.

 

[DrBowtie]

welcome to the world of behavioral economics.

More game theory I think.

 

[Bluntman]

welcome to the world of behavioral economics.

It's called the "Tragedy of the Commons". Check out the link and read all about it.

 

[Faust]

So, I'm thinking to myself with how many people end up applying to 20-30 or more schools...what if everyone only applied to a few schools where they wanted to actually go...

i was thinking this because the rationale is that everyone applies to a ton of schools is to have a better chancge of getting into at least one based on the fact that each school receives a huge number of applications...BUT...the reason each school receives a huge number of applications is because everyone applies to a ton of schools...so what if everyone were to just pick no more than 10 schools that they really wanted to go to...then every school would receive significantly less applications, eliminating the need to apply to 20-30 or even more schools.

it's just a stupid theory, and of course it'll never happen...but it's just interesting to me that probably the number one reason we all apply to so many schools is that everyone else applies to so many schools... 😎

I plan to apply to only 10 schools that I really want to go to, so far i have submitted 5 need two more uic and yale (these essays require some thought especially yale because they make sure that one understands the yale system), and I am waiting for 3. I'll see what happens 😀 . I am totally against the ideology that screams if you really want to be a doctor you will go anywhere, this is a bunch of bullcrap. What happens is that people apply to many schools and lose that focus after a few secondaries, and get burnt out, and really don't ever get a sense of the schools' mission, vision, and personality. This leads to bland secondaries and shows up at the interview as well and so on. But then again, what do I know 🙄 My safety school is Harvard 😎 if one gets into this school it can be used as leverage to get into their top choice.

Most FAP students only apply to ten as well because that is all the Financial Assistance Program allows then one has to pay.

 

[willthatsall]

Yeah, this is economics. The only way it would happen is if AAMC mandated you could only apply to a certain number. They would never do that because it would cut money.

 

[Faust]

Yeah, this is economics. The only way it would happen is if AAMC mandated you could only apply to a certain number. They would never do that because it would cut money.

It is actually not economics it is human social life. In short, it is certain universal attributes of human nature.

 

[willthatsall]

It is actually not economics it is human social life. In short, it is certain universal attributes of human nature.

I would still call it economics. It's everyone being utility maximizing. It's like the prisoners' dilemma; it would be better for all parties if everyone could agree to limit the number of schools, but there is no way to monitor and ensure compliance. Individually, it benefits people to apply to more schools, no matter if other people apply to many or few. This means that the result for applicants is less than optimal; everyone applying to a bunch of schools because it's better for them individually, even though it's not the best possible scenario.

 

[Law2Doc]

So, I'm thinking to myself with how many people end up applying to 20-30 or more schools...what if everyone only applied to a few schools where they wanted to actually go...

i was thinking this because the rationale is that everyone applies to a ton of schools is to have a better chancge of getting into at least one based on the fact that each school receives a huge number of applications...BUT...the reason each school receives a huge number of applications is because everyone applies to a ton of schools...so what if everyone were to just pick no more than 10 schools that they really wanted to go to...then every school would receive significantly less applications, eliminating the need to apply to 20-30 or even more schools.

it's just a stupid theory, and of course it'll never happen...but it's just interesting to me that probably the number one reason we all apply to so many schools is that everyone else applies to so many schools... 😎

Your theory as described makes no sense to me because some of the people who apply to a lot of school aren't applying to the ones they want to go to, they are applying to the ones they are hoping want them -- i.e. the shotgun approach -- fire lots of buckshot and hope one penetrates. Under your system, the good candidates get in and the rest don't have as good a chance to get lucky. You are also assuming that people don't flub and interview or two before they find their stride, necessitating more applications to net more interviews. This isn't about being a gunner or a prisoner's dilemma -- it's about poor fisherman needing to cast a wider net.
But based on what you said, I think you would really prefer to have a match system (like they do for residency). Everyone lists their top choices, the schools list their top prospects, and a computer assembles everyone's highest matches.

 

[deleted77919]

Ultimately the result of this application process should be the same as under a match or restriction in number of schools you can apply to system. It's not like if you get 10 acceptances that precludes me from being accepted because you took 10 spots, unless you matriculate and attend all 10 different medical schools, you ultimately only take one spot. The same one spot you would take under any medical school seat allocation system. I would then get in off the wait list once you dropped your other 9 offers. The advantage to restricting the number of schools one can apply to is the process would be cheaper (presumably they wouldn't just raise the price of a secondary, but they could) and would be less stressful, because you would write fewer essays and go to fewer interviews and get decisions sooner because there would be fewer applications to process. So while restricting the number of schools people can apply to might ease stress, I do not believe it would effect the final outcome of admissions decisions in any appreciable fashion.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

Dakota and Law2Doc are on the right track - as long as the waitlist system is functional, it actually doesn't matter how many schools each applicant applies to. In fact, each applicant could apply to all 125 MD schools, and the end result would be no different in overall numbers - there would still be the same number of total applicants and total spots to fill. The only issues at stake are 1. Cost to each applicant and medical school and 2. Waiting times involved for students. Of course, if all 30-something-thousand applicants applied to each medical school, the final distribution of students would be very different - i.e. the final destination of each student might vary drastically from the current situation. But the final number of slots does not change, and the quality of each individual student does not change. I think this is the exact point that the OP was making - if we all agreed to limit our number of applications (or the AAMC placed a cap), then we would all benefit from less stress, both financial and emotional.
I do believe, however, that the proliferation of over-applying shifts the emphasis from non-cognitive factors to straight academic cut-offs; each school is tempted to place a "numbers" screen to cut the initial number of applicants down to a reasonable amount that the admissions committee can thoroughly considered. These are just my thoughts, please feel free to disagree.

 

[indo]

AMCAS communism?

 

[humuhumu]

I do believe, however, that the proliferation of over-applying shifts the emphasis from non-cognitive factors to straight academic cut-offs; each school is tempted to place a "numbers" screen to cut the initial number of applicants down to a reasonable amount that the admissions committee can thoroughly considered. These are just my thoughts, please feel free to disagree.

This may be true, but there are other ways to reduce the number of applicants. Look at the University of Utah, for example:

http://uuhsc.utah.edu/som/admissions/brochure.html

They receive a lot fewer applications that you might expect, given that 20% of its class comes from out of state. Why? There may be other reasons, but one reason is clearly related to their extraordinarily demanding secondary application. They require 6 letters of recommendation (premed committee letter doesn't count at all) and an additional personal statement (4500 character limit) that ideally should not duplicate information from the AMCAS. They also have specific, quantitative requirements for shadowing, patient exposure, volunteer experience, leadership experience, research, and other extracurricular activities. Oh, and if you're out of state, you still need to demonstrate significant ties to Utah (i.e., you've lived in Utah, own property there, or have family members there). And you need to take a college course related in some way to cultural diversity. Come to think of it, it's amazing that they receive as many applications as they do.

 

[humuhumu]

bump

 

[jbrice1639]

So while restricting the number of schools people can apply to might ease stress, I do not believe it would effect the final outcome of admissions decisions in any appreciable fashion.

That was actually my point exactly...that it wouldn't change the outcome, it would just get us all their a lot quicker, cheaper and less stressed out.