The Disconnect

[PharmDstudent]

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What is my education really worth? There seems to be a disconnect between academia and the rest of the world.

This is my current opinion of pharmacy school:
1. Every time I take an exam, I feel like I'm on Jeopardy. Some of the questions seem so dated and off the wall that I would need a divine intervention just to answer them. For example, we were asked what T..... is used for. The answer was to treat hypertension, which I got right only because I memorized it. Even though the question was valid, I recall that this drug has almost been completely abandoned in clinical settings due to its side effects. There were so many other drugs that could have been addressed for hypertension, why did they pick that? It's like saying that 10-k can be used to replace electrolytes. They don't even make 10-k anymore!
(I can't even find the name of the drug on RXlist so maybe someone can fill that in for me 😳, because I don't have my notes right now.)

2. Due to the hellacious amount of material that's covered, I can't just rely on learning the main ideas or concepts. This may sound bizarre, but sometimes the main points are never clear to begin with. We have pages and pages of PowerPoint slides to learn.

I can't imagine what the students with minimum work experience perceive pharmacy to be. In my opinion, pharmacists can never completely master pharmacy. Therefore, we can't just memorize everything in pharmacy school and then say we know pharmacy. There are too many drugs on the market for that to be possible, and new drugs keep showing up all of the time.

Lastly, I hate filling my head with information just for the sake of being able to spit it back out. I would rather know what something is used for or what is typically used in a particular situation. Maybe I'll be happier when I get to Disease State Management.

 

[alwaystired]

What is my education really worth? There seems to be a disconnect between academia and the rest of the world.

This is my current opinion of pharmacy school:
1. Every time I take an exam, I feel like I'm on Jeopardy. Some of the questions seem so dated and off the wall that I would need a divine intervention just to answer them. For example, we were asked what T..... is used for. The answer was to treat hypertension, which I got right only because I memorized it. Even though the question was valid, I recall that this drug has almost been completely abandoned in clinical settings due to its side effects. There were so many other drugs that could have been addressed for hypertension, why did they pick that? It's like saying that 10-k can be used to replace electrolytes. They don't even make 10-k anymore!
(I can't even find the name of the drug on RXlist so maybe someone can fill that in for me 😳, because I don't have my notes right now.)

2. Due to the hellacious amount of material that's covered, I can't just rely on learning the main ideas or concepts. This may sound bizarre, but sometimes the main points are never clear to begin with. We have pages and pages of PowerPoint slides to learn.

I can't imagine what the students with minimum work experience perceive pharmacy to be. In my opinion, pharmacists can never completely master pharmacy. Therefore, we can't just memorize everything in pharmacy school and then say we know pharmacy. There are too many drugs on the market for that to be possible, and new drugs keep showing up all of the time.

Lastly, I hate filling my head with information just for the sake of being able to spit it back out. I would rather know what something is used for or what is typically used in a particular situation. Maybe I'll be happier when I get to Disease State Management.

Do you go to my school? Sounds kinda familiar. Thank god I'm on rotations!

As far as advice, it does all come together. With lots of interning, things make more and more sense and you develop a "filter" to decide what to store in your brain and what to let leak out. Surprisingly, the filter method seems to working for me so far.

 

[MountainPharmD]

What is my education really worth? There seems to be a disconnect between academia and the rest of the world.

This is my current opinion of pharmacy school:
1. Every time I take an exam, I feel like I'm on Jeopardy. Some of the questions seem so dated and off the wall that I would need a divine intervention just to answer them. For example, we were asked what T..... is used for. The answer was to treat hypertension, which I got right only because I memorized it. Even though the question was valid, I recall that this drug has almost been completely abandoned in clinical settings due to its side effects. There were so many other drugs that could have been addressed for hypertension, why did they pick that? It's like saying that 10-k can be used to replace electrolytes. They don't even make 10-k anymore!
(I can't even find the name of the drug on RXlist so maybe someone can fill that in for me 😳, because I don't have my notes right now.)

2. Due to the hellacious amount of material that's covered, I can't just rely on learning the main ideas or concepts. This may sound bizarre, but sometimes the main points are never clear to begin with. We have pages and pages of PowerPoint slides to learn.

I can't imagine what the students with minimum work experience perceive pharmacy to be. In my opinion, pharmacists can never completely master pharmacy. Therefore, we can't just memorize everything in pharmacy school and then say we know pharmacy. There are too many drugs on the market for that to be possible, and new drugs keep showing up all of the time.

Lastly, I hate filling my head with information just for the sake of being able to spit it back out. I would rather know what something is used for or what is typically used in a particular situation. Maybe I'll be happier when I get to Disease State Management.

Yep, sounds like where I went to school. Memeorize countless power point slides down to the tiniest minutia and then regurgitate it on a test. I am very glad I worked before and during school.

 

[PharmDstudent]

The drug is Trimethaphan.

 

[genesis09]

Our epilepsy exam was 38 questions of drug trivia. Then they wonder why the average was 65%. The professors for that section were gung-ho neurology pharmacists. This was the medicinal chemistry professor's first time going through this course. The old med chem prof is retiring. The pharmacology professor was one who we have had many times, and so, we were familar with his style. His questions weren't that bad.

I just read over my slides, and try to memorize as much as possible. I review any comments from the professors about their questions. If you get a professor often enough, you'll learn their question style. I've accepted I'm not going to memorize every little detail. I realize all of this information won't really jell together until next year during rotations. They all say you'll be surprised what you truly know.
My professors tend to focus on the drugs currently being used in widely in practice. We spent 30 seconds on chloraphenicol, remember gray baby syndrome, but forever on macrolides, penicillins, fluoroquinolones, etc.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Our epilepsy exam was 38 questions of drug trivia.
My professors tend to focus on the drugs currently being used in widely in practice. We spent 30 seconds on chloraphenicol, remember gray baby syndrome, but forever on macrolides, penicillins, fluoroquinolones, etc.

Unfortunately, I know what gray baby syndrome is.

 

[Requiem]

We spent 30 seconds on chloraphenicol, remember gray baby syndrome, but forever on macrolides, penicillins, fluoroquinolones, etc.

I'm studying that right now. Poorly metabolized in neonates [detoxification via glucoronidation] so high concentration builds up -> interferes with mitochondrial protein synthesis -> gray babies.

Test tommorow baby.

 

[PharmDstudent]

I'm studying that right now. Poorly metabolized in neonates [detoxification via glucoronidation] so high concentration builds up -> interferes with mitochondrial protein synthesis -> gray babies.

Test tommorow baby.

This is what we've learned since the last exam. We still have three more weeks worth of lectures to add to it, yikes.

I have other charts, but I don't know what you would need.

The first chart might have typos, but I wasn't the creator .
The chart called Pharm.ExamIIdrugs.xls is the one for our next exam.

 

[Epic]

I should've had you do my literature search...you would've definitely felt connected..

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Why are the tests like that? Because the Naplex is a test on endless amounts of drug trivia. Ask any professor "why?" and that's what they'll tell you. Believe me, I've asked. I've been known to tell several of them to their faces that I got nothing from their class and I will forget it all within 2 months. As a customer of their services, I figure I have the right to complain. And because this is academia, they have every right to tell you to **** off and prance around like they are better than you. It's the only industry outside of the S&M industry where you pay people to torture you and insult your intelligence.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

This is what we've learned since the last exam. We still have three more weeks worth of lectures to add to it, yikes.

I have other charts, but I don't know what you would need.

The first chart might have typos, but I wasn't the creator .
The chart called Pharm.ExamIIdrugs.xls is the one for our next exam.

Man...you got some nerds at your school. Good work at riding their coattails to study material. That's the first step towards pharmacy school success. Hang out with overachievers and copy their notes.

 

[Old Timer]

What is my education really worth? There seems to be a disconnect between academia and the rest of the world.

Right this thought down and file it away somewhere. Then five years after you graduate, pull it out and you will answer your own question. It all came to together for me 1981 when Capoten came to market. It was approved only for hypertension. I was very friendly with the Squibb rep and I got all of the salesman's training material. I read it all (three thick binders, sorry I was geek). The first thing I noted was this was going to be a blockbuster for heart failure. That's when I realized all of the crap I learned was not crap. I was able to look at the mechanism of action of drug not yet on the market and deduce where it would make the biggest impact, despite not reading one study on this for heart failure and none of the manufacturer's material mentioned this indication. It was obvious because of the training I received in school....

 

[sdn1977]

My honest opinion - yep, there can truly be a knowledge gap between academics & practical knowledge. This gap is probably the greatest in schools which teach by "rote memorization" rather than "clinical understanding".

If you spent 30 seconds on grey baby syndrome - that may be about 1/4 of the time you should spend, but 5 min would be the max. After all, this is an accepted & well-taught fact of chloramphenicol. This is really old news & not normally an issue in a practical fashion. If it is, you're in a specialized NICU/PICU with far more complex ID issues. You need to be far more knowledable in other issues of ID than this, unless you work out in the boondocks somewhere or in a tertiary care center for peds/neonates.

Altho I don't agree with WVU's approach, I do agree you need to give feedback. The problem is, as Old Timer pointed out is, you never know what you might need to know until you need to know it.

That's why I advocate learning drugs by class rather than by their inidividual entities (the top 200 - one of the most ridiculous issues in pharmacy school!).

If you learn the drug groups, know what parts of the molecule makes the differences (increases potency, changes side effects, prolongs effects, etc), then you'll know your drugs no matter if the drug is one you learn about in 2007 or 2017!

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Altho I don't agree with WVU's approach,

I'm shocked and disappointed.

 

[sdn1977]

I'm shocked and disappointed.

P'robly not so much!🙄

 

[JerryPharmD]

Turn your first paycheck into foldin' money. It will be worth it.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Man...you got some nerds at your school. Good work at riding their coattails to study material. That's the first step towards pharmacy school success. Hang out with overachievers and copy their notes.

It's called mass emails.
Oh and by the way, I am an overachiever.

 

[Old Timer]

If you learn the drug groups, know what parts of the molecule makes the differences (increases potency, changes side effects, prolongs effects, etc), then you'll know your drugs no matter if the drug is one you learn about in 2007 or 2017!

Bingo, we have a winner...... This is the way it should be. It's the way it was taught to me.....

 

[PharmDstudent]

Bingo, we have a winner...... This is the way it should be. It's the way it was taught to me.....

You know...my friends and I have this joke. We talk about how the space inside our heads is filling up and there isn't much room left. It's difficult for students to keep cramming stuff into their brains thinking that it's all important. I like to learn concepts first and then details, but the details are becoming meaningless. I can't even find most of the drugs on the shelves at work, but the one time I find something that we stock and it has a package insert that I read, I'm not tested on that drug. Go figure?

Maybe I'll go back over this stuff again at a later point in time to see if it has any value to me. I would hate to discount this information so soon.

 

[PharmDstudent]

This is just a side note, but some of the students have the capacity to memorize large quantities of information for the short-term. They make the grades that are necessary during the semester so that they can blow off their finals, because there's no way that could memorize an entire semester's worth of material in a few days at the end of the semester.

I don't really see how they're going to make it as a pharmacist. They do very well on the exams, but their retention is minimum or non-existent. That study habit concerns me. I don't want to memorize like that by default, because there isn't a better way.

I like what SDN said, but I'm not at that level yet. I don't have that intuition yet.

 

[Old Timer]

This is just a side note, but some of the students have the capacity to memorize large quantities of information for the short-term. They make the grades that are necessary during the semester so that they can blow off their finals, because there's no way that could memorize an entire semester's worth of material in a few days at the end of the semester.

I don't really see how they're going to make it as a pharmacist. They do very well on the exams, but their retention is minimum or non-existent. That study habit concerns me. I don't want to memorize like that by default, because there isn't a better way.

They won't be good pharmacists. I never got the highest grade in my class. But I made sure I learned the material. So when it came time to go on rotations, I could apply what I new to the situation at hand. So the brainiacs had a higher GPA so what. I won the clinical award at graduation. Not because I was smarter, but because I was committed to becoming a pharmacistnot getting a grade.

I like what SDN said, but I'm not at that level yet. I don't have that intuition yet.

Don't worry you can be.... Are you willing to pay the price? This by the way is one of the secrets to a happy life.

• Realize everything in life has a price.
• Determine what the price is.
• Make sure you are willing to pay the price.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

Don't worry you can be.... Are you willing to pay the price? This by the way is one of the secrets to a happy life.

• Realize everything in life has a price.
• Determine what the price is.
• Make sure you are willing to pay the price.

I thought the secret to living a happy life was to not work for CVS?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

This is just a side note, but some of the students have the capacity to memorize large quantities of information for the short-term. They make the grades that are necessary during the semester so that they can blow off their finals, because there's no way that could memorize an entire semester's worth of material in a few days at the end of the semester.

I have a delayed release memory. I won't know **** after I actually learn the stuff when I'm in the class and the test rolls around, but two years later I'll know the stuff better than anybody I'm on rotation with. The **** is just weird. I actually think I learn things subconsciously, am unable to recall them immediately, it simmers for a while, then it becomes actual knowledge.

😕😕😕

 

[Old Timer]

I thought the secret to living a happy life was to not work for CVS?

Apply the three questions and you will have your answer. It's different for everyone.... This applies across the board to anything in life. Getting married, having kids, etc..... Everything has a price....

 

[genesis09]

If you spent 30 seconds on grey baby syndrome - that may be about 1/4 of the time you should spend, but 5 min would be the max. After all, this is an accepted & well-taught fact of chloramphenicol.

We already went over the cause of grey baby syndrome in another class, and so, they didn't go over it in great detail.
My goal for each exam is to understand the material. The fact that the professors like to drag out one tiny point at the bottom of the slide is another story. My grades are good; however, I'm not the type who can sit for hours and memorize every little detail to get the A. The A I did receive in a pharmacology and therapeutics class was a pleasant surprise. Most people though think I am extremely knowledgeable. I am one of the people who they will come to when they have questions.

 

[sdn1977]

This is just a side note, but some of the students have the capacity to memorize large quantities of information for the short-term. They make the grades that are necessary during the semester so that they can blow off their finals, because there's no way that could memorize an entire semester's worth of material in a few days at the end of the semester.

I don't really see how they're going to make it as a pharmacist. They do very well on the exams, but their retention is minimum or non-existent. That study habit concerns me. I don't want to memorize like that by default, because there isn't a better way.

I like what SDN said, but I'm not at that level yet. I don't have that intuition yet.

I never "got" to that level - thats what I was taught. Take that huge group of ACE inhibitors. The base molecule in each is the same. But, what about that molecule makes captopril (requires more frequent dosing, etc), are benazepril & lisinopril similar? What are their dissimilarities & what about the molecule causes this?

When you get to your rotations, some of this stuff comes bubbling back, like WVU said - you really, really learned it, didn't just memorize it. It was pounded into us that we had to learn our material & the real test of it would be long past any test the school could administer. I have no idea what my gpa was (we didn't keep track of that). I also don't know what I got on my board exam. But, I'm tested everyday & I seem to do very well.

When a new drug comes out, I find out what class its in, look at the molecule then pretty much know what the package insert will say. Still gotta look at which liver enzymes are induced or suppressed, elimination considerations (rf, etc). But, it is less memorization & more knowledge.

A bit like knowing you can ride a Segeway (sp?) though you've never tried. You've ridden a bike, perhaps a scooter or a skateboard. So, with a bit of familiarizing, you can do the Segeway.

The tough part for me is when I have to learn completely new drug classes. I often have to go back to the originial physiology to really understand the mechanism properly, then I go thru the learning, just as I did in school. So, prepare yourself for being able to teach yourself years in the future.

Good luck! You'll make it & the beauty of it is, you have the ability to keep learning.

 

[PharmDstudent]

I never "got" to that level - thats what I was taught. Take that huge group of ACE inhibitors. The base molecule in each is the same. But, what about that molecule makes captopril (requires more frequent dosing, etc), are benazepril & lisinopril similar? What are their dissimilarities & what about the molecule causes this?

When you get to your rotations, some of this stuff comes bubbling back, like WVU said - you really, really learned it, didn't just memorize it. It was pounded into us that we had to learn our material & the real test of it would be long past any test the school could administer. I have no idea what my gpa was (we didn't keep track of that). I also don't know what I got on my board exam. But, I'm tested everyday & I seem to do very well.

When a new drug comes out, I find out what class its in, look at the molecule then pretty much know what the package insert will say. Still gotta look at which liver enzymes are induced or suppressed, elimination considerations (rf, etc). But, it is less memorization & more knowledge.

A bit like knowing you can ride a Segeway (sp?) though you've never tried. You've ridden a bike, perhaps a scooter or a skateboard. So, with a bit of familiarizing, you can do the Segeway.

The tough part for me is when I have to learn completely new drug classes. I often have to go back to the originial physiology to really understand the mechanism properly, then I go thru the learning, just as I did in school. So, prepare yourself for being able to teach yourself years in the future.

Good luck! You'll make it & the beauty of it is, you have the ability to keep learning.

Thanks for the wonderful monologue. A little inspiration can go a long way.

I'm glad I enjoy learning...that should help me when I have to teach myself in the future.