The Down Side of Vet School

[Brixton]

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I'm just about to finish out my first year of vet school. And I'm really, really disappointed -- I don't feel like I'm learning that much, I'm underwhelmed with the quality of teaching, and feel like I'm overburdened with meaningless busywork that prevents me from going out and learning what I know I'll need later on because I just don't have the time. My grades are very good, but I feel like I'm wasting a lot of time memorizing things I know I can look up when I need them and won't remember more than a month after an exam anyway. A lot of the professors (although some are VERY good) don't really seem to give a crap about teaching, just their research, or possibly not much at all. A few are so bad that it's actually quite horrifying. They have an 'old test' system where I am. So a lot of the professors just pass around dated note packs, don't teach much at all, and then rely on most of the class doing reasonably well because they ask a lot of the same questions every year. So it looks like the students are learning, but a lot of it is just....absurd.

I'd really like other students' opinions on how they feel about their coursework and their programs. I'm wondering if transferring is the answer (don't want to say where it is I am now, for obvious reasons). I love veterinary medicine, but I love medicine in general...From talking to people, I get the impression that human med students get a much better education. I'm wondering if I should have gone that route as well....

 

[Angelo84]

I think a lot of that is issues with first year. There wasn't a whole lot I learned in first year that is going to be useful in real life. Second year is a lot better as far as applicable course material but there is still a degree of memorization (parasitology etc). Do you have course reviews at the end where you critique the professor? And do your comments make a difference? A system we have here is a liasion for each course that will bring up issues during the course to the professor--so you can complain anonymously and if the professor doesn't act on the concerns you can go to the dean of students. This has worked well to fix classes while we are still taking them. The course reviews fix things for the next class.

Good luck

 

[Jochebed]

It gets better!!!! Honestly, I've no idea what school you go to and that's ok. I remember feeling pretty frustrated by the end of 1st year too...and parts of 2nd year as well, but it really does get better. There is a LOT of rote memorization in first year but the further you get into the curriculum the more clinical stuff you will get. And you'll be surprised how much of that memorized stuff does actually become relevant later. Not all of it...and maybe not a lot of it...but the important things come back again and again. It really does get better. 🙂

 

[feadog]

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[1CellNtheSea]

I'm just about to finish out my first year of vet school. And I'm really, really disappointed -- I don't feel like I'm learning that much, I'm underwhelmed with the quality of teaching, and feel like I'm overburdened with meaningless busywork that prevents me from going out and learning what I know I'll need later on because I just don't have the time. My grades are very good, but I feel like I'm wasting a lot of time memorizing things I know I can look up when I need them and won't remember more than a month after an exam anyway. A lot of the professors (although some are VERY good) don't really seem to give a crap about teaching, just their research, or possibly not much at all. A few are so bad that it's actually quite horrifying. They have an 'old test' system where I am. So a lot of the professors just pass around dated note packs, don't teach much at all, and then rely on most of the class doing reasonably well because they ask a lot of the same questions every year. So it looks like the students are learning, but a lot of it is just....absurd.

I'd really like other students' opinions on how they feel about their coursework and their programs. I'm wondering if transferring is the answer (don't want to say where it is I am now, for obvious reasons). I love veterinary medicine, but I love medicine in general...From talking to people, I get the impression that human med students get a much better education. I'm wondering if I should have gone that route as well....

While I sympathize with that unfortunate situation and appreciate your desire to get more out of school, I can't agree. My first year has been amazing and I feel like I've learned so much. I don't feel like I've been learning just "memorization things", it's actually practical stuff, like how everything works. Our curriculum is kind of based where we learn how everything works together before we learn what can go wrong and how to treat it. The teachers I have are awesome (really funny too) and make a point that they do not use old tests. Our 2nd year "buddies" give us a test file but they stress using them as a guide only, not a sole study source. So we really do learn the material, and not just regurgitate it. I'm sure all our professors have research on the side, but I've never heard them mention it or get the feeling they spend more time on it. They're very willing to help you with anything and encourage the desire to learn more.

Maybe transferring is an option for you. But be careful because we had students transfer into our class from other schools and they have had to repeat their entire first year because the credits didn't transfer. 😕 yikes!

Don't give up on veterinary medicine! If this is really what you want to do with your life, don't let this get you down. It's so much better than what you are unfortunately experiencing.

 

[catdoc]

Brixton, I am so happy that you posted this! I have thought about posting a similar one for a long time but just never did. I am finishing up my second year at a highly ranked vet school and paying out of state tuition. We have some very fabulous teachers, but overall, I feel that my experience is subpar and most of the professors do not care about us at all and it is just a complete inconvenience for them to have to teach us. Yes I understand a lot of them have their responsibilities back on the clinic floor, but I am paying A LOT of money each year and would like someone to care. It is a TEACHING institute that should teach us and if you do not want to teach, go into a private practice somewhere. We get very little hands on experience and due to budget cuts a lot of our core programs are going to be cut next year. I thought maybe it was just my first year that sucked so much, but nope, it has been half of my vet school career. I have excellent grades, and yes, the material did get better and more clinical this year, but I still feel that the professors (at least half depending on the semester) are just horrible. How about instead of cutting our programs because of budget cuts we cut some of the dead-weight professors? And speaking from someone going to a highly ranked school, it means NOTHING, just a lot of research dollars flowing in. Sorry to rant, but the debt I will be in is so not worth the education I am getting. I am happy (in a sadistic way) that I am not the only one with these feelings.

 

[HeartSong]

Welcome to grad school. Seriously, your complaints are no where near restricted to vet school. I'm in a grad student Bible study with people from various programs. Sentiments are the same across the board. Professors are only in it for the research, they could care less about the students or teaching, the material we are learning is useless ... when do we get to the stuff we actually use ... on and on.

 

[Nexx]

Brixton there could be several things going on.

In first year you are likely taking Anatomy and physiology + other coursework. There is only so much that can be tested on in both A and P -- so yeah you may have old exams but the humerus is the humerus and 20 years down the road... it isn't going to turn into the acetabulum, nor are you going to likely find out that it has some new added tuberosity on it. The first few years of vet school are indeed rote learning, teaching you how to think, research, etc.

Another possibility is that you may be away from home, stressed, and/or depressed. Make sure you are finding a work/life balance--you don't need good grades, you only need to pass (whether that is a 70% or what have you). You don't feel like you are learning alot? Read extra perhaps, start delving deeper into subjects because 'not learning a lot' to me, implies that you have heaps of spare time.

The third possibility is that perhaps you did choose the wrong profession. Your last sentence certainly makes it seem like you chose to go to vet med over a very real interest in also possibly pursuing human medicine. For many people on here, myself included, the two professions are mutually exclusive. Although I must admit if I failed to get into vet school I would have gone into PA school, but only as a last resort. I just don't feel like obtaining an MD would be your 'last resort'.

To others, yeah vet school has its highs and lows - frankly I hate HATE hate! having to learn large animal stuff. I don't like all my professors and frankly one or two of them have hated teaching students. Vet school, like taking statistics, calc, organic chem just has some more steps you just have to follow to reach that ultimate goal. Yeah there is going to be stuff you don't like but you either do have to deal with it or get out with as little debt as possible. Vet school is hard, has boring bits, and no one ever said it was going to be easy, fun, or even interesting -- but it is all important to our future career.

I'm sorry that you vet school(s) don't seem to listen to you (assuming you have voiced your concerns to the administration--if you haven't you have no right to complain--just make sure it is constructive criticism). If you haven't voice concerns, a good place to start is with lecturers or even your student association (SCAVMA, whoever..).

 

[Bill59]

My grades are very good, but I feel like I'm wasting a lot of time memorizing things I know I can look up when I need them and won't remember more than a month after an exam anyway.

I think you will be surprised how much you remember. You will see most of the important stuff several times before you're done and next time you'll say "Oh yea, I remember hearing Dr. Useless talk about that."

And when you get to the hospital, you can't spend all day looking up stuff, there's a lot of information you just have to know. When you're doing a lateral approach to the knee, you need to know what that white thing there is -- you can't stop everything while you go grab a book.

Teachers are like students -- it's a bell-shaped curve and somebody is going to be below average. But remember their job is not to entertain you. Later you may even realize some teachers were better (or worse) than you thought. I remember a medicine instructor I had who I hated, along with pretty much everyone else in the class. He would talk 90 miles and hour in this monotone voice. No slides. No preprinted notes. And he liked to call on individual students during class to answer questions. The exams were these brutal essay questions about cases. But I still remember things he said in class, like "treat the treatable", "always look under the tongue of a vomiting cat" and "you haven't done a complete exam until you've looked in the ears." Maybe because I was scared to the verge of incontinence that he was going to ask me something.

But it was not until several years later that I understood how much I learned. I even started to feel bad about the terrible evaluation I gave him at the time.

 

[Emio]

i'm just going to reiterate what most everyone else here has said:

it gets better.

i was in the EXACT same boat as you. i've even been known to slam my books closed, throw all my notes in my bag, and storm out of a classroom because the teaching was so abhorrent; a prof stood with her back to us, arms crossed, and read (mumbled) verbatim the presentation slides for an hour. i was appalled at some of the stuff i was being put through, when, like catdoc, i thought i was going to a pretty good school. ugh. i hated it.

but taaaa-daaaa! then came second year. i love it. sure, some professors are still pretty bad, but the material is fascinating, relevant, and we have a good balance of excellent professors that actually like to see us learn something.

i think transferring is not your answer, as you'll likely run into the same first-year everywhere. do you have access to online syllabi of your courses next year? second year students' opinions? get a job in the hospital to make biochemistry relevant?

that's about all the input i have. i really think it will get better; you are by far not the only person who has gone through this.

 

[ovc2012]

I too am almost done my first year - in less than 24 hours! 😀 I have to admit, there are definitely some moments where I'm like, "Why am I here again?". There are just certain things that I could care less about because I'm just not interested but it's essential to get the fundamentals down I think for 2nd year. I haven't had to walk out of lectures before but there are some moments where I wanted to pretty much scream - digestive physiology section being one of them. The prof was so extremely frustrating - couldn't get his thoughts together, etc. Immunology was another one of those. I'm sure that along the way, in the next 3 years, there will be moments like that that will happen again. But yes, transferring is not the answer. I would think that things get better/more interesting and relevant to our future in the later years.

 

[Brixton]

Thanks guys. I feel better that there's some universality to this. I guess my expectations were pretty high. I'm not ready to drink the kool aid yet (Nexx, that was some post....it's nice to see that level of sustained enthusiasm, but whoa....) but I feel a lot better knowing that I'm not the only one out there that wonders if this is as good as it gets. I'm trying to look at the bright side....there are a limited number of years of school and then I'll have time to read up on all the things I've been exposed to and gather the experience and the knowledge to be really good. and until then i'll keep reminding myself to look at the good parts of things (some of the profs really are fantastically good, and even if i'm forced into rote memorization, at least i've been exposed, and will know what my colleagues have been exposed to also. and even if really feel i could make more effective use of my time, it's good to have the structure, however heavily enforced, in place to stop me from going off on tangents.

i will say that wish i'd chosen a school with more pbl and less scantron. it's a lot more self-directed. and i like that....

 

[HeartSong]

I do agree with you about the rote memorization. Though I consider that more how you learn rather than what you learn. I really don't think that anything taught in vet school is unnecessary information. Some of it you may never use, but that doesn't mean it's not important. If I were taught only what I would use in practice, I would feel very cheated. I think it is important to be taught all the aspects of physiology, anatomy, histology, etc that we are even if it goes way beyond anything that a practicing veterinarian would be able to tell you off of the top of their head.

As for rote memorization, why be so dependent on the professors? You say you like to be self-directed so take it upon yourself to turn the material you are presented with into a "backwards case." Think of it as solution based learning (SBL). With PBL you are given the problem and told to find the answer. Okay, so now you are given the solution ... go find the problem.

Anatomy ... hey look, the bone is in the right position and there's no damage to the nerves or blood vessels. Why is that? Well, the simple answer is that nothing was ever wrong. But since this is SBL ... where there's a solution there was a problem. Now come up with a differential list for the solution 🙂. Repaired fracture - successful surgery with no damage to overlying structure and proper positioning of the bone during repair ... etc. Then you could get into what might occur if your solution didn't end up looking normal. What if there had been nerve damage during surgery? Aha, now you actually do need to know what that nerve innervates so you know what abnormalities you'll see from the damage. You also need to know where the nerve start, runs and ends so that you can avoid it during surgery. So on and so forth.

The same can be done in any "normals" class. Don't think about it as how a normal animal is, think about it as how a cured animal is. Then think about how it could go wrong (you don't need to know specific diseases or abnormalities, just think "if this is normal, then abnormal would be ....). If you want to be self-directed, then REALLY be self-directed. Don't wait for a professor to tell you to go self-direct yourself. They're just there to present everyone in the class with information, it's up to you to figure out how digest that information in a way that will be most usefully for you specifically.

 

[projekt]

Incredible! This dog has been resurrected!

 

[HeartSong]

Incredible! This dog has been resurrected!

Oooo! Now that's a fun one (though I would hate to have it as an actual assignment, about as narrowed down as ADR). Super long differential list. But I would start with the heart, lungs and brain since those are the main components CPCR. 🙂 Maybe a bit deep for a first year, but certainly several aspects of physiology and anatomy go into what is considered "legal dead." Hey, if your school has Ethics first year like mine does, this case could pull information from that class as well. This is too much fun, I should get back to actual cases.

 

[InfiniVet]

You say you like to be self-directed so take it upon yourself to turn the material you are presented with into a "backwards case." Think of it as solution based learning (SBL). With PBL you are given the problem and told to find the answer. Okay, so now you are given the solution ... go find the problem...

Man I so totally agree with this - this perspective keeps me awake while studying AND it makes things stick. Instead of memorizing 10 different causes of Hypercalcemia I just think to myself - well thats gotta be caused from 3 things: making too much, not getting rid of enough, not using enough. Well where does Ca come from, who uses it, and where does it go? Done.

Or having to memorize where the talus calcanei is on radiograph. I just think how much different could it look if it were all screwed up from a trauma case or something. Makes it more interesting to me.

 

[Electrophile]

So you guys haven't seen me around for a while, but I am in kind of a similar state. I had to get off SDN for a while because I was browsing some thread and some pre-vet (I honestly don't even remember who) was all pie in the sky like everything will be miraculously wonderful when you get in. I was so aggravated, I just had to take an extended break from this forum.

I HATE HATE HATE vet school right now. I felt like about half of first year was a complete waste of time (histology, I'm looking at you in particular, anatomy, you're right behind) and I feel like an academic bulimic for all the ridiculous amounts of binging and purging we do. I'm tired of the hoops. I'm tired of not ever seeing live animals. Hell, the decapitated cat head in our dental lab I got to do an extraction on was the highlight of last block for animal experience. I am tired of the clinicians who teach our class go on and on and on about their specialty and act so surprised that we don't know our stuff because unlike them, we haven't been around it yet. It seems way too theoretical right now. It all seems like a joke.

I just hope to God I have the stamina to make it to July when we finally get out of class. I originally wanted to do a preceptorship or three or do a research project this summer for our meager 6 weeks we get. Now I just want to do nothing but sit around, watch movies, read books, and play with the dogs. UGH. Thanks for listening to the ever more cynical Electrophile. 😡

 

[QTkitty]

While I understand the importance of all that we learn in lecture I too am sick of not putting my hands on an animal. I feel like I'm going to graduate and be the lame vet that everyone talks about behind her back because she sucks at what she does. What am I doing here for 4 years if not working to become an outstanding veterinarian? I was terrified about going into clinic next year because I feel unprepared to take cases, but was told this afternoon that all we really do is sit back an observe anyway. I have heard so many time that vet school is what you make of it and if you want to get experience you have to take the initiative to find it yourself... well, I've been looking and I am not finding. It is impossible to get a freakin' job out here when the business is already saturated with vet students and CVT from the college down the street... So, people tell me to volunteer to gain experience but I have bills to pay and actually need to make money, as unbelievable as that sounds. I am so frustrated I could scream!

 

[sumstorm]

So....

describe the ideal vet school? I hear the gripes and I understand....but isn't some of this necessary before you get to work on animals?

 

[chris03333]

So....

describe the ideal vet school? I hear the gripes and I understand....but isn't some of this necessary before you get to work on animals?

I think the point of this thread is that someone was feeling like they needed to vent and wanted to know if others felt the same. Vet school can be stressful and having the ability to vent helps. Describing the ideal vet school is not going to help the OP or the responders in the venting department.

To the OP, I can tell you that similar threads like this are posted almost every year that I have been a member so you are not alone.

For those who are not getting live animal time....that really sucks (that was what kept me sane in vet school, the live animal interaction) keep on going, clinics will be there faster than you think.

 

[sumstorm]

Sorry. I am just a silly future vet student who wanted to try to understand...and understand what would improve it in the minds of vet students who are currently dealing with it. PBL? clinicals earlier on?

I realize can't fix those things, but if the ideas aren't coming out and being developed..... well, will they ever be fixed?

Either way, my apologies.

 

[alliecat44]

Sorry. I am just a silly future vet student who wanted to try to understand...and understand what would improve it in the minds of vet students who are currently dealing with it. PBL? clinicals earlier on?

I realize can't fix those things, but if the ideas aren't coming out and being developed..... well, will they ever be fixed?

Either way, my apologies.

Well, it's nothing the OP or others can fix while THEY are in vet school. Certainly things can be done for future students (and I'm very proactive and all for giving feedback/improving things for the next generation of veterinarians, etc--this profession is fascinating and I'd really like to be part of its evolution). But to be honest, I think THAT is a huge global thing and potentially the subject of another thread. 🙂

To the OP and others--I can't imagine. Like chris, live animal stuff is the only thing that's been keeping ME sane, too. Looking back on it, I really don't think I could go through first year again!! Second year is so much better, not because we get any animal experience, but because I can actually see how this stuff relates to our future career. Pathology is incredibly interesting (to me), etc etc.

Scared to death of surgery in the fall...as I'm sure we all are.

It's really hard to feel so far removed from what you want to do...but I'm always surprised at the end of the semester how quickly things really are going by. Hope you guys find that, too.

 

[StealthDog]

Keep in mind that the most common time for med (and vet) students to consider dropping out is towards the end of second year... Which means, it really does get better from there!

I'm on necropsy rotation, and I can't tell you how much I've had to dredge up from my memory over the past week and a half. Suddenly it becomes important to know what that artery supplies, because we found a gigantic thrombus lodged in it, and that might help us explain why the animal suddenly died last night. We opened a dog's gut and found a large number of adult worms... What species? Does it matter? Did they have a role in the animal's death? We examined a guinea pig that had symptoms of hypersalivation before it died... Was its dental arcade normal for a guinea pig? Could malocclusion have contributed to the clinical signs? We found a nasal mass that we suspected was caused by aspergillus. What stain should we use to ID it on histopath?

I got through the classroom years by getting animal interaction (not necessarily in a veterinary setting- I spent a summer working at a doggy daycare), visiting the teaching hospital often, and doing yoga to keep in touch with my body and mind. There was also a lot of crying and declaring that I hated vet school (or hated cows, or kidneys, or whatever it was we were studying at the time). Just get through the suck and you'll make it to the awesome, where you find out that at least some of the suck is really helpful to know.

 

[VAgirl]

Keep in mind that the most common time for med (and vet) students to consider dropping out is towards the end of second year... Which means, it really does get better from there!

I'm on necropsy rotation, and I can't tell you how much I've had to dredge up from my memory over the past week and a half. Suddenly it becomes important to know what that artery supplies, because we found a gigantic thrombus lodged in it, and that might help us explain why the animal suddenly died last night. We opened a dog's gut and found a large number of adult worms... What species? Does it matter? Did they have a role in the animal's death? We examined a guinea pig that had symptoms of hypersalivation before it died... Was its dental arcade normal for a guinea pig? Could malocclusion have contributed to the clinical signs? We found a nasal mass that we suspected was caused by aspergillus. What stain should we use to ID it on histopath?

I got through the classroom years by getting animal interaction (not necessarily in a veterinary setting- I spent a summer working at a doggy daycare), visiting the teaching hospital often, and doing yoga to keep in touch with my body and mind. There was also a lot of crying and declaring that I hated vet school (or hated cows, or kidneys, or whatever it was we were studying at the time). Just get through the suck and you'll make it to the awesome, where you find out that at least some of the suck is really helpful to know.

StealthDog...do you feel like you knew the book work well enough by the time you got to the application? That's what's freaking me out right now. I just gave my fiance's family a tour today and already can't remember stuff I learned earlier this quarter. I thought I was doing ok on retaining some info, but today (and when I looked over my last exam and couldn't remember how to answer many questions that I knew at the time) I'm starting to worry that I'm never going to know what I need to when I need to.

Sorry, half question half worrying. 🙂

 

[frozen_canadian]

I graduate vet school in 2 weeks, and I'm completely and utterly terrified. However, at some point in vet school you come to realize that you will make it through, you won't know nearly as much as you thought you would starting out, and that somewhere somehow it will all be ok. It happened for me in 3rd year. I feel almost completely unprepared for the real world, but I realize that this is how everyone feels. I may not know the answers, but I sure know where to find them. And i think that is ultimately what everyone realizes at some point.
Just some food for thought - last summer I was working in a clinic. A puppy came in with swellings underneath his caudal mandible. The vet asked me what I thought it was and I had no idea. She looked at me and said 'its puppy strangles!' i was shocked that I'd never even heard of puppy strangles and I had successfully completed third year of vet school. I voiced this concern to her, and she said "well they can't teach you everything in vet school.." Puts things in perspective. Do your best, learn what you can, and be happy with it. Because ultimately there will always be things you've never even heard. It all takes time.

 

[StealthDog]

StealthDog...do you feel like you knew the book work well enough by the time you got to the application?

Heck no! But that's okay- you aren't supposed to enter clinics totally prepared to handle patients. It's a gradual transition. You try to remember what you can, and you go look up what you can't. Our clinicians throw questions at us all day... I get the answers right maybe one out of five times, and for the other four, the clinicians talk me through to something of an answer. And you'll be surprised what pops out of your mouth that you didn't even realize was stored in your brain...

 

[VAgirl]

Heck no! But that's okay- you aren't supposed to enter clinics totally prepared to handle patients. It's a gradual transition. You try to remember what you can, and you go look up what you can't. Our clinicians throw questions at us all day... I get the answers right maybe one out of five times, and for the other four, the clinicians talk me through to something of an answer. And you'll be surprised what pops out of your mouth that you didn't even realize was stored in your brain...

Thanks, Stealth. That helps. 🙂

 

[Electrophile]

While I understand the importance of all that we learn in lecture I too am sick of not putting my hands on an animal. I feel like I'm going to graduate and be the lame vet that everyone talks about behind her back because she sucks at what she does. What am I doing here for 4 years if not working to become an outstanding veterinarian? I was terrified about going into clinic next year because I feel unprepared to take cases, but was told this afternoon that all we really do is sit back an observe anyway. I have heard so many time that vet school is what you make of it and if you want to get experience you have to take the initiative to find it yourself... well, I've been looking and I am not finding. It is impossible to get a freakin' job out here when the business is already saturated with vet students and CVT from the college down the street... So, people tell me to volunteer to gain experience but I have bills to pay and actually need to make money, as unbelievable as that sounds. I am so frustrated I could scream!

Agreed 110%. So we're in the oncology section of our internal medicine classes right now. We're talking about lymphoma, hemangiosarcoma, osteosarcoma, etc. We've talked about these things at least 2-3 other times in other classes in other blocks. AT LEAST. I even like the professors in this section of the class! But instead of sitting through one more lecture that's 3/4 review of a mix of pathology and pharmacology we've already had before, may I suggest that we all go over to the hospital as a group and do rounds or something? Like this dog is getting this chemo, this cat is getting this radiation? That has been my frustration. Makes me wish for a 100% PBL cirriculum.

Same thing with anesthesiology last block. We're expected to know what drug combos work, but I don't have much familiarity with anything besides isoflurane, ketamine, ace, and xylazine. So instead of going over the drug combos, can we actually SEE them induce an animal or two? I'm not sure why that's so difficult. Cause when you're shadowing before vet school, you don't pay that much attention to those things until you have the class backround, but until you see it in person, the stuff in the classroom doesn't have a point of reference. Yeah yeah, I know, I know...but I'm just irritated right now, which makes the motivation for studying for yet another 8 weeks *extremely* difficult.

 

[critterfixer]

I am truly confused, or astounded, or....something. Do you all really not have any practical applications until clinical year? We have handled animals every single semester beginning with our very FIRST semester. In first semester of second year, we had both surgery and anesthesia, with labs, so we not only spayed or neutered on our own, but we acted as the anesthesia crew several times over the semester for the 4th years taking a surgery elective. We work along side the 4th years IN the clinic WITH the patients for one week every semester beginning 2nd year. I was given the opportunity to take patients and do physical exams and histories (while a 4th year observed) and presented to the clinicians while on ophtho service this semester. I honestly cannot think of a semester yet in which we did not have a fair amount of animal handling and practical application of our lecture material. Most of our classes have labs consisting of, at the least, case discussions. Most of our tests are case based, so you cannot just regurgitate info, you have to KNOW how to apply it if you want to do well on an exam.

We are also ALWAYS welcome on the clinic floor, and more times than not will be asked to assist with whatever happens to be going on. We are welcome to attend Grand Rounds,too. Our professors don't talk much of their research unless asked. They TEACH, and seem to enjoy doing so.

Is Tennessee unusual in this regard? Seriously?

I found a lot of the material pretty damn boring this semester (2nd semester of 2nd year), but at least I had my clinical week to look forward to and I can honestly see how I am going to apply the information in clinics come 4th year. Because, yeah, if I was just sitting in a classroom all the time and never seeing how it all comes together, I think I'd have to scream randomly several times daily. I had no idea it was so different depending on the school.

I hope you don't quit, and that you find this next year to be more enjoyable and relevant to your goals.

 

[alliecat44]

I am truly confused, or astounded, or....something. Do you all really not have any practical applications until clinical year?

Is Tennessee unusual in this regard? Seriously?


I hope you don't quit, and that you find this next year to be more enjoyable and relevant to your goals.

Wow, critterfixer, TN sounds AMAZING! I really wish we would do that. I love the one-week a semester in clinics--that's fantastic.

Here at K-state, as first years, you are "supposed" to spend Friday afternoons at the clinics with a senior. However, only maybe 5 people or so do this, and those who do kind of feel uncomfortable without having a defined role in the clinic, so most of those stop going anyway. We have one "live-dog" quiz and one "live horse" quiz in gross anatomy, but that's it for animal contact first year.

Second year, we have none, unless you count the preserved dead things in pathology. We're also supposed to take Friday afternoons to go to the clinic, but again, there's no defined structure for this and it gets a bit awkward.

Fall of junior year is when we start our surgery/anesthesia and clinical skills courses.

For me, working in the ICU on the weekends with real patients who needed me was the only way I stayed sane, especially last year. However, obviously this option is available to very few students based on experience level (myself and one other classmate had positions). It would drive me absolutely bonkers to have no live animal contact.

Big fan of Tennessee's curriculum--bet they did that in response to student pressure just like what we read above. I often wonder if some structure to our suggested hours with the seniors in clinics might help participation/actually getting something out of the experience. Great to know that that actually happens and is successful at other schools! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Brixton]

So you guys haven't seen me around for a while, but I am in kind of a similar state. I had to get off SDN for a while because I was browsing some thread and some pre-vet (I honestly don't even remember who) was all pie in the sky like everything will be miraculously wonderful when you get in. I was so aggravated, I just had to take an extended break from this forum.

I HATE HATE HATE vet school right now. I felt like about half of first year was a complete waste of time (histology, I'm looking at you in particular, anatomy, you're right behind) and I feel like an academic bulimic for all the ridiculous amounts of binging and purging we do. I'm tired of the hoops. I'm tired of not ever seeing live animals. Hell, the decapitated cat head in our dental lab I got to do an extraction on was the highlight of last block for animal experience. I am tired of the clinicians who teach our class go on and on and on about their specialty and act so surprised that we don't know our stuff because unlike them, we haven't been around it yet. It seems way too theoretical right now. It all seems like a joke.

I just hope to God I have the stamina to make it to July when we finally get out of class. I originally wanted to do a preceptorship or three or do a research project this summer for our meager 6 weeks we get. Now I just want to do nothing but sit around, watch movies, read books, and play with the dogs. UGH. Thanks for listening to the ever more cynical Electrophile. 😡

I'm sorry but "academic bulimic" is so perfect. It's exactly the right phrase, the most perfectly apt way of describing the experience. I love it. Now I truly know I am not totally alone.....

(And GATTACA rocks....)

 

[Ben and Me]

StealthDog...do you feel like you knew the book work well enough by the time you got to the application? That's what's freaking me out right now. I just gave my fiance's family a tour today and already can't remember stuff I learned earlier this quarter. I thought I was doing ok on retaining some info, but today (and when I looked over my last exam and couldn't remember how to answer many questions that I knew at the time) I'm starting to worry that I'm never going to know what I need to when I need to.

This is what freaks me out most about vet school...I'm not much for retaining information unless I use it on a pretty regular basis. Unless it's completely useless...then I'll remember it for years and years. 😎

 

[Electrophile]

I am truly confused, or astounded, or....something. Do you all really not have any practical applications until clinical year? We have handled animals every single semester beginning with our very FIRST semester. In first semester of second year, we had both surgery and anesthesia, with labs, so we not only spayed or neutered on our own, but we acted as the anesthesia crew several times over the semester for the 4th years taking a surgery elective. We work along side the 4th years IN the clinic WITH the patients for one week every semester beginning 2nd year. I was given the opportunity to take patients and do physical exams and histories (while a 4th year observed) and presented to the clinicians while on ophtho service this semester. I honestly cannot think of a semester yet in which we did not have a fair amount of animal handling and practical application of our lecture material. Most of our classes have labs consisting of, at the least, case discussions. Most of our tests are case based, so you cannot just regurgitate info, you have to KNOW how to apply it if you want to do well on an exam.

We are also ALWAYS welcome on the clinic floor, and more times than not will be asked to assist with whatever happens to be going on. We are welcome to attend Grand Rounds,too. Our professors don't talk much of their research unless asked. They TEACH, and seem to enjoy doing so.

Is Tennessee unusual in this regard? Seriously?

I found a lot of the material pretty damn boring this semester (2nd semester of 2nd year), but at least I had my clinical week to look forward to and I can honestly see how I am going to apply the information in clinics come 4th year. Because, yeah, if I was just sitting in a classroom all the time and never seeing how it all comes together, I think I'd have to scream randomly several times daily. I had no idea it was so different depending on the school.

I hope you don't quit, and that you find this next year to be more enjoyable and relevant to your goals.

That sounds really, really fabulous. We are supposedly "allowed" to come over to the teaching hospital, but I don't know anyone who does, to be honest. Any time I've had to go over there for another reason, even with my own pets, I kind of feel in the way...in fact, I LOVE when I bring my pets over and I can actually help out and be behind the scenes. We get none of this. We have the blood donor dogs or our own dogs for a very small number of labs last block for internal medicine, but that was it more or less. Our program is 2/2, so we hit clinics in October, but I still feel just so burnt out, particularly with the prospect of soldiering on for another 7 more weeks. I would love that kind of stuff to keep me grounded. Some people get ICU jobs or whatever, but I already have multiple jobs, so that's a no.

Don't worry, I'm not quitting. Just venting. 🙄 😉 I get aggravated with being taught how to be a good test taker (and not even that good apparently...), not so much a good veterinary doctor.

 

[rugbychick16]

Critterfix, TN does sound amazing! I would love to be able to assist in the clinic, not just told to stay out of the way and don't touch any animals. Thats why I quit going over there when I did have free time...its very boring, and you just feel useless. Client contact would also be wonderful to have before 4th year.

 

[Angelo84]

We have a decent amount of live animal interaction. First and second year we have clinical skills about once a month where we learn to restrain, do physicals, place catheters (on models), this year we practiced cardio exam (on dogs with real cardiac problems and the normal beagles), opthologic exams on horses including nerve blocks, vaccinated the beef herd, and bled the pigs. Second year we also have a few rotations in the hospital where we shadow the fourth years and get a feel for what we will be doing in clinics in the small animal hospital, large animal, ambulatory and two nights in ICU, an additional evening in ER and in LA treatments is optional. Fall of third year we start doing monitor anesthesia for our partner's spay and do our own spay. There are some more procedure days as well. I also work in the ER/ICU saturday nights so that helps.

 

[bakaduin]

So you guys haven't seen me around for a while, but I am in kind of a similar state. I had to get off SDN for a while because I was browsing some thread and some pre-vet (I honestly don't even remember who) was all pie in the sky like everything will be miraculously wonderful when you get in. I was so aggravated, I just had to take an extended break from this forum.

I HATE HATE HATE vet school right now. I felt like about half of first year was a complete waste of time (histology, I'm looking at you in particular, anatomy, you're right behind) and I feel like an academic bulimic for all the ridiculous amounts of binging and purging we do. I'm tired of the hoops. I'm tired of not ever seeing live animals. Hell, the decapitated cat head in our dental lab I got to do an extraction on was the highlight of last block for animal experience. I am tired of the clinicians who teach our class go on and on and on about their specialty and act so surprised that we don't know our stuff because unlike them, we haven't been around it yet. It seems way too theoretical right now. It all seems like a joke.

I just hope to God I have the stamina to make it to July when we finally get out of class. I originally wanted to do a preceptorship or three or do a research project this summer for our meager 6 weeks we get. Now I just want to do nothing but sit around, watch movies, read books, and play with the dogs. UGH. Thanks for listening to the ever more cynical Electrophile. 😡

I am in the same boat as some of you after having just completed my first year of vet school. I honestly feel though that this is one of those situations where we don't know our own good. We are immersed in these classes learning more things than our brains tell us they can possibly hold and while we can't see the reasons behind it they are all important.

For instance you mention anatomy as being a "waste of time". Anatomy may be the single most important class we take as veterinarians. It sets the groundwork for most of what we do. You can not be a good radiologist if you don't know your anatomy. You can not be a good surgeon, especially orthopedics, if you don't know the anatomical landmarks. How about when your doing palpations? You will use anatomy every day you practice as a veterinarian.

I think we all have said at one time or another "I don't get why we are learning this as I could just look it up if I needed it". I think that is a slippery slope of thinking as you could say that about just about anything except the truly hands on things like surgery. I mean why bother learning pharmacology when you can just look up any medication you need to give? Why bother learning symptoms of diseases when you can just throw your symptoms into a computer program and have them give you differentials? In today's internet society you could look up just about anything you want to know but that doesn't mean you shouldn't learn it even if it doesn't stick. Bill59 was correct when he said that you will be surprised how much you remember. It may not be there for instant recall but in the back of your mind you will have it stored and be surprised when it comes back to you after some thought.


In addition to all this I think we need to keep our eyes on the goals of veterinary school. First of all you need all this information to pass your boards and obviously we all know how important that is. More importantly though you have to remember that we are being trained as veterinarians to treat a wide variety of animals and to be good at all aspects of medicine (as opposed to MDs where specialization is the norm). So to me Molecular Biology may not seem very important and I may never use it in the future but my classmates who chose to go into research will utilize its teachings daily. I may not see large animal anatomy as very useful because at this moment in time I want to do small animals but I may change my mind by the time I graduate or I may end up in a mixed practice and then be glad I had that foundation of learning. Histology may seem laborious to me for what few slides I will look at in practice but for my classmate who wants to be a pathologist it is invaluable.

I think what I am trying to say in a not so eloquent way is that we just gotta trudge through this. It may seem like an exercise in jumping through hoops from all our eyes, and I don't think there is one of us who hasn't questioned our learnings, but when we graduate in a few years we are going to be very thankful for everything we were taught.

 

[RockStarKDub]

Histology may seem laborious to me for what few slides I will look at in practice but for my classmate who wants to be a pathologist it is invaluable.

I believe you meant to say "for my super awesome favorite classmate who makes me want to be a better person and incidentally also wants to be a pathologist, it is invaluable."

Anyway!

I, for one, am terrified of getting to clinics and not know how to apply ANYTHING I've learned because I've learned it in such a sequential, binge-and-purge fashion, that none of it seems to go together... Why did I think going to a 2/2 school was a good idea again?

 

[bakaduin]

I believe you meant to say "for my super awesome favorite classmate who makes me want to be a better person and incidentally also wants to be a pathologist, it is invaluable."

Anyway!

I, for one, am terrified of getting to clinics and not know how to apply ANYTHING I've learned because I've learned it in such a sequential, binge-and-purge fashion, that none of it seems to go together... Why did I think going to a 2/2 school was a good idea again?

To quote the late great Dr. Seuss.....I meant what I said and I said what I meant... your about as awesome as a sweaty gym sock.

 

[Joanhabety]

It will get better. Don't let the first year bring you down. Good things will come.