The Entire Application Process Has Made Me Hate Being A White Male!!!

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Acherona said:
I think the original philosophy behind AA was that, between two *equally* qualified applicants, the URM was supposed to be given the advantage. It would be great if this is how it actually worked, but it really does seem to be the case that URMs are rarely equally qualified. The differential is so great that I believe white/asian applicants should not even use average stats put out by schools as guidelines for assessing how likely they are to be accepted, because they are dragged way down by the URMs. It would be very interesting if med schools actually made available URM vs. non-URM accepted stats, of course they will never do this.

However, I support AA because I think it is *very* important for black and hispanic communities in the US to have the opportunity to be served by black and hispanic doctors. Numerous studies have been published showing that minorities receive sub-par healthcare and decreasing the number of minority doctors may exacerbate this, as well as increasing resentment against the medical establishment among these populations. If AA were done away with, the number of black doctors would plummet, and in their place we'd have a few more Asian American males, who are unlikely to ever want to serve the communities now most in need. This may contribute to an even greater cultural race-rift in this country.

And I agree that, from an admissions standpoint, a few MCAT points can make a huge difference, but the cognitive difference this translates to is much much smaller. med school admissions is very competitive and a weeding-factor is needed, so I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just that suspending it for URMs for a societal cause is justifiable.

But URMs can get into med schools even without AA, some may just not be getting into the same ones they are today. I definitely agree with you that these docs are needed to serve the under-represented communities, and those in most need of such services.
 
Acherona said:
The differential is so great that I believe white/asian applicants should not even use average stats put out by schools as guidelines for assessing how likely they are to be accepted, because they are dragged way down by the URMs.

Do you realize how absurd this statement is? There are so few URMS in med school in general that they are not likely to "drag the averages "way down" as you claim. 🙄 🙄

This entire application process has made me hate (well not really, I don't really hate anyone, but you get my point) people who say crap like this and who believe others are at fault for them not getting accepted to med school (Acherona, the latter part does not specifically apply to you, but to those who hold this belief)
 
Question for all of you:

What would happen if the NFL established AA for white athletes? What if they dictated that every team had to maintain a roster with at least X number of whites? Would this not outrage the black community because NFL players have ALWAYS been chosen BASED ON THEIR TALENT, NOT THEIR RACE? Why should there be any difference in how medical schools admit students? The spot should go to the best player/student, irregardless of race. period! Let the best man/woman win.
 
MadameLULU said:
Do you realize how absurd this statement is? There are so few URMS in med school in general that they are not likely to "drag the averages "way down" as you claim. 🙄 🙄

This entire application process has made me hate (well not really, I don't really hate anyone, but you get my point) people who say crap like this and who believe others are at fault for them not getting accepted to med school (Acherona, the latter part does not specifically apply to you, but to those who hold this belief)


MadameLULU and all my fellow URMs, why bother respond to the ignorance posted in this thread. The posters in this thread are obviously hate-filled, bitter people who need a medium to vent and a scapegoat. You can't convince a Klansman that all black people aren't n***gers, a Nazi that all Jews aren't dirty dogs, a misogynist that all women aren't just tail and similarly you can't convince a bitter non-URM, that all URMs in medical schools aren't charity cases. It makes them feel better to rage against URMs b/c it justifies them not being accepted into their dream medical school or any medical school for that fact. I've learned firsthand (from my post on the previous AA thread), that for every eloquent reason presented as to why AA is necessary, some cynic will respond by pointing out some inane examples of people who unfairly benefited from AA... the rich black guy they know with the BMW, the recent Nigerian immigrant, or the most pervasive stereotype... the black girl with a 21 on her MCAT who got into Harvard. They refuse to acknowledge that these cases are the exceptions and not the rule.
The way how I see it, if SDN were around in the 1930s, white American males would complain that medical school spots were unfairly being given to immigrant males. If SDN were around in the '70s men would complain that spots were unfairly being given to white women. It just so happens that now in the early 21st century, scapegoating URMs is trendy. Who knows maybe 20 years from now, people will be complaining about applicants with disabilities. "I didn't get into Yale because a guy with one leg and one arm was given special privileges."
With that said, I'm not going to respond to ignorant, bitter, apathetic threads like this anymore. Good luck to all my fellow URMs 'cuz you'll be spending the next 4 years convincing these douche bags that you're more than just a charity case :luck: 😡
 
MadameLULU said:
Do you realize how absurd this statement is? There are so few URMS in med school in general that they are not likely to "drag the averages "way down" as you claim. 🙄 🙄

This entire application process has made me hate (well not really, I don't really hate anyone, but you get my point) people who say crap like this and who believe others are at fault for them not getting accepted to med school (Acherona, the latter part does not specifically apply to you, but to those who hold this belief)

OK I admit that was little hyperbolic. But it can drag it down by a point or so. Do the calculation. I'm really just pointing this out for the benefit of future applicants so that they don't get disappointed when they only get into schools where their stats are above the average.

I don't think there is anyone who really believes they would have gotten into med school if it hadn't been for AA, because, as you say, the total number of URMs in med school is so low. One analogy I like is the handicapped parking. You always curse the free handicapped spots wishing you could park there, but if it weren't designated as handicapped, your chances of getting that spot are not much improved, since someone else probably would have gotten to it before you.

To Psycho, the best URM applicants will get into the best schools, and the mediocre ones, who may otherwise have been completely rejected, will get in to lower tier schools. I don't see how this does not increase the total number of URMs in medical schools.
 
liverotcod said:
You still can! With URM-Rebirth(TM), you too can become any one of the three underrepresented minorities--even mix and match!-- and assure your acceptance into the medical school of your choice. Just five minutes a day, 3 times a week can lead to the fantastic future you thought impossible for someone with your weak-ass numbers. Visit ww.scapegoat.com today for more information.

😉

Now that's creative! Mad props to you! :laugh:
 
Psycho Doctor said:
i'm for neither. Legacy also (sometimes) assumes your family gives to the school...when money speaks, i stop listening.

one and probably only time i will ever agree with you.
 
stanMD said:
Question for all of you:

What would happen if the NFL established AA for white athletes? What if they dictated that every team had to maintain a roster with at least X number of whites? Would this not outrage the black community because NFL players have ALWAYS been chosen BASED ON THEIR TALENT, NOT THEIR RACE? Why should there be any difference in how the NFL recruits players and how medical schools admit students? The spot should go to the best player/student, irregardless of race. period! Let the best man/woman win.

"Best" can be measured a lot more easily in the NFL than in medical school. A med school is picking a best class, not just the best single applicants. In that class they're going to want students whose life experiences, backgrounds, personalities, races, etc. vary, so that students will help educate each other and bring varying insights to the table. They also are going to want a class that can collectively serve all or almost all communities as physicians. The best doctor for a patient may not be the one with the highest MCAT score, but the one with a high enough MCAT score and excellent training who also has an intimate knowledge of that patient's community & cultural background and can make some well-grounded guesses about his or her life experiences... and possibly also the one the patient can trust most easily because of some shared background. Even at equivalent schools and socioeconomic levels, people of different races have different experiences--and all the more so if those other variables are not equivalent.

In the NFL, they're just trying to win. Big difference.
 
I dont agree with all you have said but especially do not agree with your last statement... All the best URM's are not at top schools some choose to go to state schools also... I know one that got 3.9 and 33 that choose a state school b/c of funding... plz quit making blanket statements.....

Acherona said:
OK I admit that was little hyperbolic. But it can drag it down by a point or so. Do the calculation. I'm really just pointing this out for the benefit of future applicants so that they don't get disappointed when they only get into schools where their stats are above the average.

I don't think there is anyone who really believes they would have gotten into med school if it hadn't been for AA, because, as you say, the total number of URMs in med school is so low. One analogy I like is the handicapped parking. You always curse the free handicapped spots wishing you could park there, but if it weren't designated as handicapped, your chances of getting that spot are not much improved, since someone else probably would have gotten to it before you.

To Psycho, the best URM applicants will get into the best schools, and the mediocre ones, who may otherwise have been completely rejected, will get in to lower tier schools. I don't see how this does not increase the total number of URMs in medical schools.
 
I have to agree with those who said Asian guys (Indian and azn) get it the worst. Not only do they form a minority of the US population, they also form a big fraction (if not the biggest fraction) of the MDs.

Affirmative action is just a BS excuse to 'undo' past injustices. People should call it for what it is, "Reverse Racism."
 
reggae girl said:
Who knows maybe 20 years from now, people will be complaining about applicants with disabilities. "I didn't get into Yale because a guy with one leg and one arm was given special privileges.":

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Ya know, I could really see this happening!!!!
 
visualwealth said:
I dont agree with all you have said but especially do not agree with your last statement... All the best URM's are not at top schools some choose to go to state schools also... I know one that got 3.9 and 33 that choose a state school b/c of funding... plz quit making blanket statements.....

I said "get into" not "attend". Big difference.
 
personally, as a puerto rican female, i believe that URM shouldnt be based solely on race. i get really pissed sometimes when someone can say they are a URM just because they're parent's grandparent's sister's brother in law is half hispanic (u get the idea). i did apply as a URM, but if I were accepted at a top 10 school, i would've def known that it was only because i'm hispanic, and wouldnt have liked to go there having this on the back of my mind.
I got into my top choice not because i'm a URM, however, but because i've worked my f.ucking as$ off for the past 4 yrs, and achieved a ****load more than all of my caucasian friends did while in school.
I think URM should def be based on ur life struggles, socioeconomic bkground, etc, not the color of ur skin. I dont look PRcan AT ALL, but I am 438575834674864899% more PRcan than f.ucking J-Ho.
on another note; i would not care for **** if some white 21yr old guy was pissy about me getting into a school to which they were "better qualified for"; i wanna just say to those people:

get shot in the ankle on the second shooting you've been a bystander in
have your brother held at gunpoint in front of u because someone wants his car
have ur grandmother go into major depression cuz she cant afford both her CV and her psychiatric medications
have ur uncle be hit and get killed by a drunk driver in the middle of the day
(other things have happened to me, but i would not like to comment on those)
........ but then come to the US for the first time when you're 18, and graduate from college with a BA in bio+psych, premed, magna cum, undergrad research paper (i dunno what else i'm forgetting)

..............and THEN tell me ur white ass deserves to go to med school more than me
 
HOLY why is this thread still going on?? are we going to come to a resolution and start hugging everyone?? is AA going to disappear off the face of universe???

Man, ppl give it up. if you're pissed off about low scored URMs getting into med school and being delusional in thinking that they wont make good doctors cause they have "lower scores", just think......there's NO INTERVIEWS for law school. i know more weirdo's and crack heads in law school and that is something to be damn scared of!!! 😱
 
melimi said:
I am 438575834674864899% more PRcan than f.ucking J-Ho.

Don't be fooled by the rocks that she got, she is still Jenny from the block. She used to have a little, but now she has a lot. No matter where she goes, she knows where she came from (-from the Bronx!)

I agree with the rest of the post though.
 
SocialistMD said:
Not to be overly critical, but are you really saving time by eliminating the "e" in the word "be," the "a" & "e" in the word "are," or the "y" and "o" in the word "you," or substituting "2" for the word "to?" It makes your post incredibly difficult to read.

l8r. 🙄

it's an online forum, not an essay contest. relax!
 
what if you're half indian and half chinese, does that make for twice the discrimination you'd be facing if you were 100% one or the other? 😕 😱
 
LMAO Blue Scrub!!! i think it would be more synergistic than additive.... :laugh: :laugh: 👍
 
Umm, I'll admit this is a little belated, but was the OP a troll? I'm thinking yes judging by some of his other posts, join date, etc..

I'm a little excited because I've never had a troll sighting of my very own. 🙄
 
LauraMac said:
it's an online forum, not an essay contest. relax!

joo R de ultimahte l337 h4ckeR... Rnt joo?! ^_^

m4d h@wt y0!11
 
I can't believe this thread is still in pre-allo.
 
I'm white. I'm 21. I've had ****loads of advantages in life. Hell, my father is a program director at a med school in my state.

I did NOT get in this time.
I WILL get in next time.


I blame: MYSELF.

People need to stop worrying how others are getting in, step it up, re-apply, and compete against themselves. PERIOD!
 
The Remix said:
I can't believe this thread is still in pre-allo.

Well Remix, we had a good dialoge going, WTF happened? I thought you and I were on the foundation issues here, this has digressed to finger pointing by our sdn peers.
 
Can't say I feel sorry for you. Regardless, the physician field is a white dominated area still in our country. If your stats are good, you'll get in so don't worry. Good luck.
 
reggae girl said:
MadameLULU and all my fellow URMs, why bother respond to the ignorance posted in this thread. The posters in this thread are obviously hate-filled, bitter people who need a medium to vent and a scapegoat. You can't convince a Klansman that all black people aren't n***gers, a Nazi that all Jews aren't dirty dogs, a misogynist that all women aren't just tail and similarly you can't convince a bitter non-URM, that all URMs in medical schools aren't charity cases. It makes them feel better to rage against URMs b/c it justifies them not being accepted into their dream medical school or any medical school for that fact. I've learned firsthand (from my post on the previous AA thread), that for every eloquent reason presented as to why AA is necessary, some cynic will respond by pointing out some inane examples of people who unfairly benefited from AA... the rich black guy they know with the BMW, the recent Nigerian immigrant, or the most pervasive stereotype... the black girl with a 21 on her MCAT who got into Harvard. They refuse to acknowledge that these cases are the exceptions and not the rule.
The way how I see it, if SDN were around in the 1930s, white American males would complain that medical school spots were unfairly being given to immigrant males. If SDN were around in the '70s men would complain that spots were unfairly being given to white women. It just so happens that now in the early 21st century, scapegoating URMs is trendy. Who knows maybe 20 years from now, people will be complaining about applicants with disabilities. "I didn't get into Yale because a guy with one leg and one arm was given special privileges."
With that said, I'm not going to respond to ignorant, bitter, apathetic threads like this anymore. Good luck to all my fellow URMs 'cuz you'll be spending the next 4 years convincing these douche bags that you're more than just a charity case :luck: 😡

Since you are so clearly not one of the ignorant "douche bags" that disapprove of state-sanctioned race/sex discrimination (let's call it what it is), I assume you are also aware that women outnumber men in higher education, making up 57% of college students nationally with the gender gap widening every year? That black women outnumber black men in higher education by a ratio of 2:1? Yep, two black women receive bachelor's degrees for every one black male. Or that women applicants outnumbered men applicants in medicine, law, and most graduate programs with the exception of PhD candidates in engineering fields last year? That the majority of the bachelors, masters, and doctoral degrees are awarded not to all those damned males, but to females?

Are you aware that many universities are now using AA to benefit male applicants at the expense of females because the gender disparities are simply getting to large to ignore any longer? What was that about likening AA opponents to misogynists? Perhaps "misandrists" would be a better title.

Of course, it's easier to simply refer to your opponents as ignorant, "hate-filled, bitter people," and draw ridiculous (and painfully tired) connections between them and Nazis or Klansmen than to actually show why they are wrong.
 
mercaptovizadeh said:
Quite simply, AA should be based on socioeconomics, not race. The black community has been ghettoized and has further ghettoized itself (but I must admit, this mostly due to white discrimination), and a subculture has developed in which fathers are often absent, mother's have to run the show single handedly, doing three jobs (or on welfare), so there is really no-one to push the kids in their education. Furthermore, kids that actually do well in school or in the arts are labeled as "acting white" by their black peers. I understand that this is rooted in history and that there's no one to blame now, but the culture has to be changed.

Affirmative Action for blacks at higher levels of education, particularly grad school, does nothing but demean them in the eyes of their white colleagues, who suspect that they did not really attain their position by merit alone. The key is to work with the socioeconomically downtrodden (black, white, hispanic, etc.) at the early stage - kindergarten - and do the best to make the school a partial substitute for what the family should be doing, and hopefully this would stop the bad patterns that are occurring in some of the minority communities.

First of all... great post. It's everything I've wanted to say for a very looong time.
Just adding my 2 cents to the whole URM deal. It seems to me that it’s a quick “solution” that attacks the problem only in the short term. As someone posted before, AA should be based on socioeconomic status. It’s wrong to assume that all URMs come from disadvantaged backgrounds, and non-minorities do not. Granted, a greater percentage of URMs might be disadvantaged, but to generalize is unfair because it ends up giving away the assistance that a disadvantaged non-URM may not need to someone else that doesn’t need it solely on the basis of their race. Not very efficient use of our increasingly limited government funds. The problem should be targeted earlier on (in elementary school or what have you) by providing better educational tools and materials to those that need it. My father works at a high school in the Bronx, and I can’t tell you how many times he comes home wishing there were more resources provided by the government to these schools, so he can actually teach his students without using sub-par materials. This is where the problem is… and more programs should be implemented to target it at its source.

By the way, I’m originally Nigerian myself, and I can’t tell you how many opportunities have been offered to me because I have been grouped in as being disadvantaged. I went to a respectable private school in Nigeria and my family, while not exactly the most affluent, is NOT disadvantaged. I worked hard to get to where I am now, and I’m not going to let some silly handout cheapen my accomplishments. Now as a black female, I have encountered my share of racism and discrimination (although ironically enough it's sometimes come from certain African-Americans who think I'm not African-Americanny enough. 😕 I'm bloody NIGERIAN!), and while this sucks having a half-a$$ solution such as AA that doesn’t really solve the problem and actually acts against those of other races is just as bad. I thought we were trying to eliminate racism here, not subtly uphold it. 🙄
Let the flaming begin... 😎
 
I have a friend who made a similar comment to me today. He asked me how much debt I have accrued thus far in my undergraduate studies (I am in my fourth year). I told him I have none: my family is poor so I have a decent Pell Grant and I was a good high school student (graduated at the top 10% of my class while holding a job since 16 years of age) so I receive a sizable scholarship from the school I attend. I asked him how much he was indebted and he replied, “I have A LOT of debt; I don’t qualify for scholarships because I am a middle class, white male.” He said it with enough disdain for me to realize he was challenging me.

Now this boy lives with his parents. Still, he pays for all of his own bills. So I asked him, “oh well how much do you make?”

“I only make $11,000.”

“Oh really, because until last year my mom only made $4,000 more than that a year… and she’s supporting three children without any financial assistance from my dad,” I said in a vain attempt to justify my Pell Grant.

“Yeah, but one of them contributes to that,” he claimed, hinting to my income contribution.

At this point I was so infuriated that I needed to walk away. I simply could not look this boy in the eyes for over an hour. I make $7,000 per year before taxes. Do you know what my money has always gone to? FEEDING MY FAMILY. That’s right: until last year I paid for all of the groceries in the house for my two younger brothers, my mother, and I. Why? My mom was not making enough money to feed us; hence, I was forced to get a job at 16 to do it for us. It was state of living in which we were so poor that:

1. Oftentimes utility bills were paid only when someone was sent to the house to turn off said utilities.
2. Dentists and doctors were not actually visited unless for emergencies (you have no idea how much you people take insurance for granted).
3. Thrift stores are not even an option anymore, clothes are worn until the holes cannot be re-sewn anymore.

Those were given simply to provide a general idea of the hell we were living. For me specifically:

1. I have needed eyeglasses since I was 16. We found out when I had a physical (the only time I saw a doctor outside of an emergency) required for my working papers. I was unable to afford them, however, until this past summer and I am currently nearly 22.
2. My body began shutting down on me when I was 19. I had various medical problems which, due to lack of insurance, ran me upwards of $2,000+ in one year (all of which my family did not have). The irony is that it all could have been prevented had I seen a doctor regularly.
3. While my father had been physically, emotionally, and mentally abusive towards my immediate family (my mother and I especially) throughout my childhood, my mom slid into a deep depression when I was 14 upon their divorce. My father moved immediately to another state and we have not had contact with him since. I was immediately forced to take on the “mother” role at that young age as my mom literally shut herself away from the world (including us even though we lived with her) and barely spoke to us for 4-5 years.

This boy did not maintain the grades that I did, nor was he as involved in high school as I was. In addition, NEWS FLASH: being female does not qualify you as a minority!!! Yes the FAFSA system, in which those who are in reality not dependents of their parents are forced to put their parents’ income on the form anyway, sucks! But guess what? That does not mean you were discriminated against because you are a “middle class, white male”.

I hope you can all see now why I was just slightly enraged at his attempt to “compare” our situations for financial aid, meanwhile complaining about how he was being shafted, for lack of a better word, for being a “middle class, white male”. No matter what, he still lives with his middle class parents…if he falters, he has a safety net. If I falter, I (still) do not have a safety net.

How does this apply? It applies because I hear this excuse all too often when it comes to higher education, occupation, etc… and quite frankly I am sick and tired of hearing it. Of course, my train of thought applies not to those minorities who grew up with a silver spoon in their mouth. Nevertheless, there are far more minorities who have lived through what I have and in general they most certainly do deserve their medical school acceptance much more than you if they have lived through all of that in addition to obtaining the same grades/scores as you. Altogether, I beg of you to hold this in mind: it is oh-so-easy to be the picture perfect applicant when you sleep upon a bed of roses; it is an entirely different ball game to be the picture perfect applicant when you sleep upon a bed of thorns.



P.S. By the time I graduate college I will have a B.A. in Psychology, a B.S. in Biology, a minor in Law, a Concentration in Pre-Medical studies, and a Concentration in Honors studies. All that while having worked full-time and/or part-time despite taking 18+ credits per semester, and while having participated and/or been an officer for just about every applicable organization on-campus. I have volunteered and/or worked in hospitals since 12 years of age. I have volunteered for more miscellaneous activities in the past few years than I can actually account for (because I enjoy it) and am considering joining AmeriCorps before medical school. My GPA is currently a 3.86. I have not yet taken the MCATs.

When I get into a good medical school it will be due to my hard work and not due to my sex or race.
 
IF: it's currently 4:30 a.m. here and I have to get up for school at 7:00 a.m.
AND: classes run for me 'til 8:00 p.m.
THEN: tomorrow/today is going to suck

🙁
 
Wow. You are amazing, SauciSquirrel!

👍 👍 👍
 
SauciSquirrel said:
I have a friend who made a similar comment to me today. He asked me how much debt I have accrued thus far in my undergraduate studies (I am in my fourth year). I told him I have none: my family is poor so I have a decent Pell Grant and I was a good high school student (graduated at the top 10% of my class while holding a job since 16 years of age) so I receive a sizable scholarship from the school I attend. I asked him how much he was indebted and he replied, “I have A LOT of debt; I don’t qualify for scholarships because I am a middle class, white male.” He said it with enough disdain for me to realize he was challenging me.

Now this boy lives with his parents. Still, he pays for all of his own bills. So I asked him, “oh well how much do you make?”

“I only make $11,000.”

“Oh really, because until last year my mom only made $4,000 more than that a year… and she’s supporting three children without any financial assistance from my dad,” I said in a vain attempt to justify my Pell Grant.

“Yeah, but one of them contributes to that,” he claimed, hinting to my income contribution.

At this point I was so infuriated that I needed to walk away. I simply could not look this boy in the eyes for over an hour. I make $7,000 per year before taxes. Do you know what my money has always gone to? FEEDING MY FAMILY. That’s right: until last year I paid for all of the groceries in the house for my two younger brothers, my mother, and I. Why? My mom was not making enough money to feed us; hence, I was forced to get a job at 16 to do it for us. It was state of living in which we were so poor that:

1. Oftentimes utility bills were paid only when someone was sent to the house to turn off said utilities.
2. Dentists and doctors were not actually visited unless for emergencies (you have no idea how much you people take insurance for granted).
3. Thrift stores are not even an option anymore, clothes are worn until the holes cannot be re-sewn anymore.

Those were given simply to provide a general idea of the hell we were living. For me specifically:

1. I have needed eyeglasses since I was 16. We found out when I had a physical (the only time I saw a doctor outside of an emergency) required for my working papers. I was unable to afford them, however, until this past summer and I am currently nearly 22.
2. My body began shutting down on me when I was 19. I had various medical problems which, due to lack of insurance, ran me upwards of $2,000+ in one year (all of which my family did not have). The irony is that it all could have been prevented had I seen a doctor regularly.
3. While my father had been physically, emotionally, and mentally abusive towards my immediate family (my mother and I especially) throughout my childhood, my mom slid into a deep depression when I was 14 upon their divorce. My father moved immediately to another state and we have not had contact with him since. I was immediately forced to take on the “mother” role at that young age as my mom literally shut herself away from the world (including us even though we lived with her) and barely spoke to us for 4-5 years.

This boy did not maintain the grades that I did, nor was he as involved in high school as I was. In addition, NEWS FLASH: being female does not qualify you as a minority!!! Yes the FAFSA system, in which those who are in reality not dependents of their parents are forced to put their parents’ income on the form anyway, sucks! But guess what? That does not mean you were discriminated against because you are a “middle class, white male”.

I hope you can all see now why I was just slightly enraged at his attempt to “compare” our situations for financial aid, meanwhile complaining about how he was being shafted, for lack of a better word, for being a “middle class, white male”. No matter what, he still lives with his middle class parents…if he falters, he has a safety net. If I falter, I (still) do not have a safety net.

How does this apply? It applies because I hear this excuse all too often when it comes to higher education, occupation, etc… and quite frankly I am sick and tired of hearing it. Of course, my train of thought applies not to those minorities who grew up with a silver spoon in their mouth. Nevertheless, there are far more minorities who have lived through what I have and in general they most certainly do deserve their medical school acceptance much more than you if they have lived through all of that in addition to obtaining the same grades/scores as you. Altogether, I beg of you to hold this in mind: it is oh-so-easy to be the picture perfect applicant when you sleep upon a bed of roses; it is an entirely different ball game to be the picture perfect applicant when you sleep upon a bed of thorns.



P.S. By the time I graduate college I will have a B.A. in Psychology, a B.S. in Biology, a minor in Law, a Concentration in Pre-Medical studies, and a Concentration in Honors studies. All that while having worked full-time and/or part-time despite taking 18+ credits per semester, and while having participated and/or been an officer for just about every applicable organization on-campus. I have volunteered and/or worked in hospitals since 12 years of age. I have volunteered for more miscellaneous activities in the past few years than I can actually account for (because I enjoy it) and am considering joining AmeriCorps before medical school. My GPA is currently a 3.86. I have not yet taken the MCATs.

When I get into a good medical school it will be due to my hard work and not due to my sex or race.

Nice to see you've been working so hard. 👍 :clap:
A system that was based more on socioeconomic status/background would "catch" more of those applicants that need the help AA offers. Gosh it's late... damn SDN addiction! 😴
 
Well thank you Tra La La and Cornellbelle... although your kudos makes me blush. There's much more but I think you get the picture, and to be honest I cannot believe I vented all of that here. I guess I really shouldn't have. Seeing this thread merely reinvigorated the rage I felt from that conversation today; it all just began pouring out of me!

I do agree with the socio-economic AA proposed here, as you would imagine. But for now, it's time for sleep! There is nothing more refreshing than a full, two-hour slumber to energize you for the day ahead! Right?😉

Nice meeting you both, by the way.
 
SauciSquirrel said:
Well thank you Tra La La and Cornellbelle... although your kudos makes me blush. There's much more but I think you get the picture, and to be honest I cannot believe I vented all of that here. I guess I really shouldn't have. Seeing this thread merely reinvigorated the rage I felt from that conversation today; it all just began pouring out of me!

I do agree with the socio-economic AA proposed here, as you would imagine. But for now, it's time for sleep! There is nothing more refreshing than a full, two-hour slumber to energize you for the day ahead! Right?😉

Nice meeting you both, by the way.

G'luck! :luck: And nice to meet you, too.

I'm almost done with my paper now...sleep to come soon! 😴
 
Acherona said:
OK I admit that was little hyperbolic. But it can drag it down by a point or so. Do the calculation. I'm really just pointing this out for the benefit of future applicants so that they don't get disappointed when they only get into schools where their stats are above the average.

Yes, like we can really do the calculations. We don't know the distributions of MCAT scores at any given school. Also, we don't know -who- made those scores. Give me a break. Your comments are pure speculation.
 
I agree that both sides make great points but I want to point out what I believe...

1) we need a diverse medical school class
2) We live in a racist society
3) Some people get AA that don't deserve it b/c they did not work hard and they have had every chance to do well and blew it.... Society should not give second chances to certain groups over others...
4) a poor white/asian person should not be held to a "higher standard" than a middle/upper classed black person...
5) minorities are more likely to serve minority populations and AA should benefit anyone willing to work with this marginalized group...
6)AA does not help minorites as much as people on SDN would like to believe... "I know a half black half hispanic kid that went to harvard with a 21 MCAT he received double AA :laugh: BS :meanie:
7) AA removes some of the insentive to work hard...
8) AA should rarely be so extreem that the person gets into a school that they would have zero chance at if they were another race...
9) if a student takes advantage of AA to an extreme it can hurt them when they have to compete with students that did better in school and are thus more prepared...
10) White people and asians have a significant advantage in the class room that is, they are more likely than no white people to be assumed to be good students than bad...
11) AA hurts top minorities( by forcing others to assume they are another AA recipient) but in the long run it helps society...
12) I support AA b/c we live in a BS society that gives so many breaks to white people and, we also live in a society where asians have been made the "model minority"... The damage caused by dehumanizing black and latino people has manifested so much in our society that there is no turing back...
13) I believe AA will slowly fade out in the next 50 years that is, I am sure it will be edited and only the "right people will get it...." But right now the current needs of this society demands that we have it...
 
liverotcod said:
You still can! With URM-Rebirth(TM), you too can become any one of the three underrepresented minorities--even mix and match!-- and assure your acceptance into the medical school of your choice. Just five minutes a day, 3 times a week can lead to the fantastic future you thought impossible for someone with your weak-ass numbers. Visit ww.scapegoat.com today for more information.

😉

:laugh:
 
SauciSquirrel said:
Well thank you Tra La La and Cornellbelle... although your kudos makes me blush. There's much more but I think you get the picture, and to be honest I cannot believe I vented all of that here. I guess I really shouldn't have. Seeing this thread merely reinvigorated the rage I felt from that conversation today; it all just began pouring out of me!

I do agree with the socio-economic AA proposed here, as you would imagine. But for now, it's time for sleep! There is nothing more refreshing than a full, two-hour slumber to energize you for the day ahead! Right?😉

Nice meeting you both, by the way.
SauciSquirrel, kudos for all your absolutely amazing accomplishments!!! You are what AA should be all about...you deserve it, not those who genetically are a particular ethnic group but with no socioeconomic disadvanatages. You have also proved what perserverance, dedication and hard work can obtain. You will truly be successful no matter what career you undertake...you have already proved that. Congratulations and God bless.
 
SitraAchra said:
I'm white. I'm 21. I've had ****loads of advantages in life. Hell, my father is a program director at a med school in my state.

I did NOT get in this time.
I WILL get in next time.


I blame: MYSELF.

People need to stop worrying how others are getting in, step it up, re-apply, and compete against themselves. PERIOD!

I agree with you and RaaMD, in that if you are TRULY a QUALIFIED CANDIDATE, you WILL GET IN to med school....it may not be the exact time you want, but nonetheless, you will get in....its wrong for someone to blame a URM or anyone else for them not being able to get in this time around... plus yes people may not realize it, but someone may have had many more opportunities in their whole life that another may not have had, that should be remembered before someone is quick to point at another for keeping them out of med school...dont worry about others, worry about yourself and improve yourself!
 
visualwealth said:
I agree that both sides make great points but I want to point out what I believe...

1) we need a diverse medical school class
2) We live in a racist society
3) Some people get AA that don't deserve it b/c they did not work hard and they have had every chance to do well and blew it.... Society should not give second chances to certain groups over others...
4) a poor white/asian person should not be held to a "higher standard" than a middle/upper classed black person...
5) minorities are more likely to serve minority populations and AA should benefit anyone willing to work with this marginalized group...
6)AA does not help minorites as much as people on SDN would like to believe... "I know a half black half hispanic kid that went to harvard with a 21 MCAT he received double AA :laugh: BS :meanie:
7) AA removes some of the insentive to work hard...
8) AA should rarely be so extreem that the person gets into a school that they would have zero chance at if they were another race...
9) if a student takes advantage of AA to an extreme it can hurt them when they have to compete with students that did better in school and are thus more prepared...
10) White people and asians have a significant advantage in the class room that is, they are more likely than no white people to be assumed to be good students than bad...
11) AA hurts top minorities( by forcing others to assume they are another AA recipient) but in the long run it helps society...
12) I support AA b/c we live in a BS society that gives so many breaks to white people and, we also live in a society where asians have been made the "model minority"... The damage caused by dehumanizing black and latino people has manifested so much in our society that there is no turing back...
13) I believe AA will slowly fade out in the next 50 years that is, I am sure it will be edited and only the "right people will get it...." But right now the current needs of this society demands that we have it...


I don't think our society is ignorantly racist anymore. I think people walking around with chips on their shoulders, complaining the man is keeping them down, and sitting on their ass doing nothing tends to give people a good reason to think a certain way. I could be wrong...

BTW this argument is valid regardless of skin color.
 
SauciSquirrel said:
I hope you can all see now why I was just slightly enraged at his attempt to “compare” our situations for financial aid, meanwhile complaining about how he was being shafted, for lack of a better word, for being a “middle class, white male”. No matter what, he still lives with his middle class parents…if he falters, he has a safety net. If I falter, I (still) do not have a safety net.

This is such a key point. Most of us take for granted that if we don't get in this year, we can apply next year, and the year after that.

Great post Sauci, and good luck with the MCAT whenever you take that and with the application process.
 
Kazema said:
This is such a key point. Most of us take for granted that if we don't get in this year, we can apply next year, and the year after that.

Great post Sauci, and good luck with the MCAT whenever you take that and with the application process.

Uh, so only minorities should have their application efforts and time taken seriously. And dispite the current tinking, if you want to, you can reapply. It's all about choices. What you choose to do with your money and time. AMCAS has a fee waiver, and so do most secondaries. Some schools will even fly you if for your interview. I took a grey hound to one because it was all I could afford.
 
SauciSquirrel, congratulations for what you have earned and how hard you have worked. You've overcome a lot and I respect you for that. However, there are a few points I would like to make here.

SauciSquirrel said:
in general they most certainly do deserve their medical school acceptance much more than you if they have lived through all of that in addition to obtaining the same grades/scores as you.

This is a moot point. Had they achieved the same grades/scores, AA no longer remains an issue. The issue lies in the fact that they can gain admission with lower scores.

SauciSquirrel said:
Altogether, I beg of you to hold this in mind: it is oh-so-easy to be the picture perfect applicant when you sleep upon a bed of roses; it is an entirely different ball game to be the picture perfect applicant when you sleep upon a bed of thorns.

This statement of yours is absolutely ludicrous. To unfairly assume that others have become perfect applicants fairly easily because of an advantageous background is quite frankly delusional. I am a white upper/middle class male. However, I have been through things in the past 12 years that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy. There are problems that arise regardless of socioeconomic status. Yes, you have suffered from economic hardship and I commend you for your efforts. However, others, including myself, have dealt with other issues that all the money in the world could not solve. I read your story and found it to be uplifting, but I feel that the worst pain is felt by the individual who experiences it for him/herself. I would take your situation over mine; on the other hand, you might take my situation over yours. Who knows. To come out and imply that it is only minorities that suffer and must overcome obstacles in order to become a physician opens a window to a person that is simply out of touch with reality. While admission to medical school may not be colorblind, economic struggles, physical pain, emotional pain, and personal/family issues are indeed colorblind. This is the real world...welcome aboard.
 
"To come out and imply that it is only minorities that suffer and must overcome obstacles in order to become a physician opens a window to a person that is simply out of touch with reality. While admission to medical school may not be colorblind, economic struggles, physical pain, emotional pain, and personal/family issues are indeed colorblind. This is the real world...welcome aboard."

This is an interesting perspective, and one that I had not thought about. Makes sense...
 
trauma_junky said:
Uh, so only minorities should have their application efforts and time taken seriously. And dispite the current tinking, if you want to, you can reapply. It's all about choices. What you choose to do with your money and time. AMCAS has a fee waiver, and so do most secondaries. Some schools will even fly you if for your interview. I took a grey hound to one because it was all I could afford.

I said nothing about minorities. I was referring to us lucky kids who are still partially or fully supported by our parents and don't have to face the realities of working to support a family. Or working to support themselves even. While I had the option of doing an expensive SMP to raise my GPA if I didn't get in this year, not everyone does. For people who can't do these types of things to improve their apps, reapplying is almost pointless, even if they can get a fee waver or whatever.
 
VPDcurt said:
but I feel that the worst pain is felt by the individual who experiences it for him/herself. I would take your situation over mine; on the other hand, you might take my situation over yours. Who knows. To come out and imply that it is only minorities that suffer and must overcome obstacles in order to become a physician opens a window to a person that is simply out of touch with reality. While admission to medical school may not be colorblind, economic struggles, physical pain, emotional pain, and personal/family issues are indeed colorblind. This is the real world...welcome aboard.

you made some excellent points here. Most people do suffer some sort of tragedy in their life and it is impossible to measure the impact it has on individuals. It is the ability to deal with the tragedy, overcome it, learn from it and use it to do something meaningful in life that separates some people from others.
 
liverotcod said:
You still can! With URM-Rebirth(TM), you too can become any one of the three underrepresented minorities--even mix and match!-- and assure your acceptance into the medical school of your choice. Just five minutes a day, 3 times a week can lead to the fantastic future you thought impossible for someone with your weak-ass numbers. Visit ww.scapegoat.com today for more information.
😉
As a 100% Indian guy, I would consider taking a 1/16 portion of some obscure URM in exchange for having life handed to me on a silver platter. Nobody would even know it except for me, but I could still claim discrimination, social outcasting, poverty, and other hardships of my choosing. Of course none of this would be possible without that little fraction of URM blood.

Asians and Indians have it toughest since they effectively compete against each other for quotas rather than against the entire applicant pool, and they have the highest stats. If people were objective they would concede how ridiculous AA is to the extent that it is implemented; it's all political to avoid riots and ruined campaigns.
 
I know some people have said that AA can decrease one's incentive to work hard. I just wanted to say that I'm a URM and I never felt like I could take it easier than my Caucasian friends just because of my ethnicity. I'm the first person in my family to go to college and I definitely tried to make the most of it. I worked hard and of course I plan to do the same in med school.
 
Kazema said:
I said nothing about minorities. I was referring to us lucky kids who are still partially or fully supported by our parents and don't have to face the realities of working to support a family. Or working to support themselves even. While I had the option of doing an expensive SMP to raise my GPA if I didn't get in this year, not everyone does. For people who can't do these types of things to improve their apps, reapplying is almost pointless, even if they can get a fee waver or whatever.

I got my masters in biology with a neuroscience emphasis in 18 months, developed a neurolabeling technique, supporting an infant and wife, and working (haha work, i didn't get paid for this) 20 hours a week in the lab, 38 hours a week as a paramedic, graduated with a 3.98 and a who's who amoung graduate students. All this after being rejected with no outside money. guess what! I was waitlisted.
 
Shredder said:
As a 100% Indian guy, I would consider taking a 1/16 portion of some obscure URM in exchange for having life handed to me on a silver platter. Nobody would even know it except for me, but I could still claim discrimination, social outcasting, poverty, and other hardships of my choosing. Of course none of this would be possible without that little fraction of URM blood.

Asians and Indians have it toughest since they effectively compete against each other for quotas rather than against the entire applicant pool, and they have the highest stats. If people were objective they would concede how ridiculous AA is to the extent that it is implemented; it's all political to avoid riots and ruined campaigns.

T-SIP! LOL!
 
trauma_junky said:
I got my masters in biology with a neuroscience emphasis in 18 months, developed a neurolabeling technique, supporting an infant and wife, and working (haha work, i didn't get paid for this) 20 hours a week in the lab, 38 hours a week as a paramedic, graduated with a 3.98 and a who's who amoung graduate students. All this after being rejected with no outside money. guess what! I was waitlisted.
somehow this doesn't make sense; a piece of the puzzle must be missing...or you should appeal
 
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