The Financial issue

[nyanko]

I think the problem with this (for me) is that if today I did what made me happiest now there is no way on earth that I would have gone to two physics classes and then be working a 3-11 shift at the hospital (and this is the non-animal kind of hospital). I definitely would be riding a horse on the beach somewhere, and blowing all the money I've saved for an apartment deposit and rabies shots on something less mundane.

I think I get what you are saying - that the opposite extreme of only ever thinking about the future can lead to a less enjoyable present. Personally I think neither extreme works - I have to consider the present and the future when I make choices about how to spend my time and money.

I think what makes me weird is that I love what I am doing, even now, when I'm in grad school. Even when stuff gets hard (and it does! last week was finals week and it was brutal!) I feel like I am so fortunate to be here.

But yeah, obviously there will be things that I don't enjoy doing, but if I can manage a way to enjoy it more than the alternative then that's still okay to me. In other words, if I'm comparing vet school A and vet school B, I'll still have to take classes I don't like at both (and a LOT of them will be stuff I don't like, since I don't like the structure of anatomy and a lot of parts of physiology courses), but to me a bigger concern than the cost of them is minimizing "stuff that I won't like while I'm there" as much as I possibly can. If those factors at A and B are equal and the cost of A is lower, then yeah I'd be stupid not to go to A. However, if there seem to be a lot of factors at B that I would enjoy a whole lot more, then I'm going to go there even if the cost of A is lower.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Caninerepro]

I think the problem with this (for me) is that if today I did what made me happiest now there is no way on earth that I would have gone to two physics classes and then be working a 3-11 shift at the hospital (and this is the non-animal kind of hospital). I definitely would be riding a horse on the beach somewhere, and blowing all the money I've saved for an apartment deposit and rabies shots on something less mundane.

I think I get what you are saying - that the opposite extreme of only ever thinking about the future can lead to a less enjoyable present. Personally I think neither extreme works - I have to consider the present and the future when I make choices about how to spend my time and money.

I agree completely. And I hated physics, as I now hate my human neuroanatomy class. Stupid primates. Seriously, a decision as life altering as deciding to go to vet school, and where, is not something that can be made without carefully weighing your options, and deciding what is best for you.

Look, I have already hijacked this thread for my own personal gain for far too long. This is not about me anymore. But when deciding how to live your life, you need ultimately to decide what best works for you. What kind of life you ultimately want to live, and what you are willing to give up to maximize that plan. Nobody but you can make that decision for you. For some, they are willing to go without in order to be freer later. For others, they need the cost savings of an IS school, so they can pursue a less lucrative but far more satisfying practice or life later. Heck, even I was forced to decline another school a good friend is attending, because it was yet another 12,000/year more than the school i chose to go to, alone.

 

[nyanko]

This is not about me anymore.

You're the only person who assumed it was about you to begin with.

 

[StealthDog]

What that means to me is that in order to realize my dream of being a vet, I might have to postphone some of my other dreams - the farm, the horse, opening that nonprofit - for a while in favor of the vet dream.

I know this is off-topic, but I wanted to share something I learned in our business/management class today... maybe you can have your (non-profit) cake and eat it too!

Income Based Repayment: Effective July 1, 2009, this is a new type of payment relief and is viewed as a "replacement" for Economic Hardship Deferment by some. It is designed to make repaying education loans easier for students who intend to pursue jobs with lower salaries, such as careers in public service. It does this by capping the monthly payments at 15% of the borrower's discretionary income. This is based on the borrower's income, family size and total amount of money borrowed. The monthly payment amount is adjusted annually, based on changes in annual income and family size. The reduced payments will be used to cover interest first. Any interest from subsidized loans not covered by the reduced payment will be paid by the federal government, thus providing some subsidy benefits as well as lower monthly payments. The maximum repayment period is 25 years. After 25 years, any remaining debt will be discharged (forgiven). (See www.finaid.org for more information on this and the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program that provides loan forgiveness after ten years of public service. Public service jobs include, among other positions, government and military service plus many others, including work for tax exempt 501c(3) organizations.)

 

[frozen_canadian]

I have just browsed through the threads, but wanted to contribute. Every year, people post on SDN about how they were accepted to an expensive OOS school but not to their cheap in state school. And, they ask if its ok to decline the acceptance and reapply as they can't imagine going in 'that much debt.' IMHO, the states would benefit from the Canadian system. Here, we can only apply to our "in-province or whichever province has a contract with your province school." This only gives us 1 choice of school, but it is a very cheap choice. And you know what? The vast majority of my classmates are happy with that. It makes applications easy and it makes attendance very reasonable. If I were in the states, I would only apply to my in state school. As has been said before a DVM from an accredited school is all that matters. It does not matter in the slightest which school it comes from. Good luck!

 

[nyanko]

I think there are a few problems with that way of doing things. From my understanding that's sort of how things "used to be" but it's changed up.

1) Only about half of the states in the US have vet schools. There are a whole lot of people living in states that don't have contracts, and there are a whole lot of people living in states like CA or NY with huge populations. UC Davis already admits a very high majority of its class from the in-state applicant pool, yet there is always a glut of very qualified applicants who don't even get an interview here but get in out of state.

2) How would you regulate a school like Western, which is not funded by the state? You can't tell them that they have to accept CA residents and/or contract state residents only - their main pull is diversity. One would think a way to get around this would be to take the class there and divvy it up by a bunch of WICHE states, perhaps, but then you would be essentially forcing a bunch of people into a PBL environment who might not learn well in that environment and wouldn't otherwise apply there. The same PBL thing goes for NY residents and Cornell.

3) There are a lot of people who want to go into fields where one DVM is not exactly the same as another. This has been rehashed multiple times. Maybe they don't want to track and their state school does, or maybe they do want to and their state school doesn't. Maybe they are very interested in research in a certain field and want to be involved in it throughout their DVM.

I don't think that's a practical option really in light of the way that the educational system in general in the US works, especially when you consider the small number of vet schools possible.

 

[pyxystyx]

Myself, I can live off $100,000.00 a year for the rest of my life.

So,... you're absolutely positive you're going to be making that much fresh out of vet school? For the rest of your life? AFTER making all your loan payments?
Just comes off as... well, more than a little arrogant. Considering average salaries.

 

[pyxystyx]

So, yes, it has a price...not as high as you might think (my entire year stipend, which I lived on completly, was $28k)

Sorry, I just have to say,... 28K is still a HECKUVA lot of money to live on for a year. (Considering I live on less than 7K, in southern CA). You still got a purdy sweeeeeet deal, I'd say.

 

[VAgirl]

Considering I live on less than 7K, in southern CA

How?? $7K/12 = $583.33/mo. How on earth do you pay for all living expenses on that?? If there's a secret, I'd love to know it!

 

[Caninerepro]

So,... you're absolutely positive you're going to be making that much fresh out of vet school? For the rest of your life? AFTER making all your loan payments?
Just comes off as... well, more than a little arrogant. Considering average salaries.

In my case I have a standing job offer, and one of the few wise things I did before I started on this quest is I bought into the clinic itself on an admittedly small basis. I could not do that now, post divorce, but I was lucky enough to before. You are right, I have to do a 6 month internship somewhere else first, but after that the job stands. So that is how I can come off with that statement. No arrogance intended. Arrogance and confidence backed up with inside knowledge are two different things. Nonetheless I apologize to you for my perceived hubris.

 

[sumstorm]

"Science moves with the spirit of an adventure characterized both by youthful arrogance and by the belief that the truth, once found, would be simple as well as pretty." - James D Watson

 

[sumstorm]

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." - John Kenneth Galbraith

 

[sumstorm]

The future is not a result of choices among alternative paths offered by the present, but a place that is created--created first in the mind and will, created next in activity. The future is not some place we are going to, but one we are creating." - Anon

 

[sumstorm]

 

[bunnity]

In my case I have a standing job offer, and one of the few wise things I did before I started on this quest is I bought into the clinic itself on an admittedly small basis. I could not do that now, post divorce, but I was lucky enough to before. You are right, I have to do a 6 month internship somewhere else first, but after that the job stands. So that is how I can come off with that statement. No arrogance intended. Arrogance and confidence backed up with inside knowledge are two different things. Nonetheless I apologize to you for my perceived hubris.

That's a great opportunity that will probably work out, but there are four years until vet school will be over, not counting the internship. What if the practice goes under financially? What if something happens to the owner so that he/she can't run it anymore and has to sell it? What if it is destroyed by a bus running into it and they decide not to rebuild? Not trying to be a jerk, but I think you are a little too certain about this place providing you with a stable career for the next thirty years.

 

[Caninerepro]

That's a great opportunity that will probably work out, but there are four years until vet school will be over, not counting the internship. What if the practice goes under financially? What if something happens to the owner so that he/she can't run it anymore and has to sell it? What if it is destroyed by a bus running into it and they decide not to rebuild? Not trying to be a jerk, but I think you are a little too certain about this place providing you with a stable career for the next thirty years.

What if the sky falls down? What if the US becomes a communist state? What if all the mountains disappear? What if..... Look people, I know bad things happen, and when they do, you adjust. Sometimes stuff just happens. I myself cannot live my life in constant fear of the absolute worst theoretically possible happening every time. That is just me. I am an optimist, the glass is half full for me, but sure as heck I will check for leaks first. You do what you can, then you just have to stop the obsessing and live your life as best you can with what you have in front of you. Worrying beyond a point just makes life not worth living.

That is how I chose to live my life. Everyone has a comfort level they can deal with. If the worst happens, I will brush myself off and move on to the next phase; fixing the problem. Not sitting around in a pity party and waiting for someone else to come by and fix it for me.

 

[GeeQued]

Sorry, I just have to say,... 28K is still a HECKUVA lot of money to live on for a year. (Considering I live on less than 7K, in southern CA). You still got a purdy sweeeeeet deal, I'd say.

Thats just cause you amazing! LOL only reason I live off 7k is that I moved back in with my parents

So are you as ready to strangle Dr. Liu and Keith for not posting our grades??? I'm gonna seriously die if I didn't pass the lecture.

 

[hopefulvet21]

I'm not really sure about where I stand on the issue at hand in this thread, honestly, deterministic derail notwithstanding.

You obviously can't control everything that happens to you, so I can totally see the points of those on the more conservative side, but I still can't shake the feeling that to me, not being able to control everything is all the more reason to do what makes me happiest now. If I got run over by a Yolobus tomorrow while riding my bicycle to campus, will it really matter to me whether I saved $10k extra a year in school loans? I'll be dead either way, so it seems like I wouldn't know any better.

On the same token, if some of the disasters foretold in this thread were to actually happen, how much would any loan difference really and truly matter?

I've got to agree with everything nyanko's saying. A meteor could hit the earth tomorrow and kill us all. You might win the lottery and pay off all your debt xf:!) You might get robbed. You could be struck by lightening....who knows. You don't need to plan for some financial doom because of high educational debt because "who knows what will happen." Things could swing the other way too, in your favor, and help you pay off your debt.

 

[pyxystyx]

How?? $7K/12 = $583.33/mo. How on earth do you pay for all living expenses on that?? If there's a secret, I'd love to know it!

Eat lots and lots of spaghetti.
J/K,... well only kinda. Spaghetti is actually a staple of mah diet. But really- lots and lots of roommates (4 per apt.), gas credit cards and gift cards for X-mas, and scholarships to cover my tuition and then some. Iz how I does it. : /
Can't go shopping very often tho- es no bueno.

 

[nyanko]

1) So, it is ok to have a negative affect on the security of a potential marriage, as long as one doesn't acknowledge it? And the other person isn't worthwhile if they do acknowledge the reality of debt having a negative affect on marriage?

The person is not worthwhile to marry, if they absolutely won't marry you because of your debt, yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.

2) Have you ever needed to exercise that freedom or assist someone else in exercising that freedom?

That's a pretty damn personal question, but yes. I actually have. To both. So there. Put that in your holier than thou pipe and smoke it for awhile. Don't choke on it though. I lived in one of the most expensive parts of the country (Boston, MA) and it cost me a grand total of $450. A friend of mine that I accompanied paid $350 in a conservative southern state. Both places had sliding-scale pricing if a person was below the poverty level. I just didn't want to submit all my tax documents.

If you don't want to raise a freaking kid, you won't be raising a freaking kid. That was my point. It's fine to talk about things happening that are beyond your control but that is not one of them.

I honestly don't think it is really possible to be cognizant (knowledgable of something especially through personal experience-websters dictionary) of how much a high debt to income ratio will affect a person UNLESS they have already completed the repayment of a high debt:income debt (or perhaps, if they have paid a lower debt:income debt) off over a number of years previously.

That's right, it's not possible to understand something unless you've experienced it! And of course, you have, so inevitably I'm just misguided if I don't agree with what you're saying. I almost forgot! Maybe you shouldn't assume so much about others. Especially other nontrads. I have said before that your statements very often come off as arrogant, and you haven't changed my opinion one bit.

 

[hopefulvet21]

That's right, it's not possible to understand something unless you've experienced it! And of course, you have, so inevitably I'm just misguided if I don't agree with what you're saying. I almost forgot! Maybe you shouldn't assume so much about others. Especially other nontrads. I have said before that your statements very often come off as arrogant, and you haven't changed my opinion one bit.

well I'm glad somebody said it....

 

[projekt]

The person is not worthwhile to marry, if they absolutely won't marry you because of your debt, yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.

Perhaps. That probably makes it easier to break up and not feel dumped.

I lived in one of the most expensive parts of the country (Boston, MA) and it cost me a grand total of $450. A friend of mine that I accompanied paid $350 in a conservative southern state.

LOL. Like you can afford raising a kid but you can't afford $1000 for an abortion. No wonder we have an economic crisis.

 

[hopefulvet21]

I lived in one of the most expensive parts of the country (Boston, MA) and it cost me a grand total of $450. A friend of mine that I accompanied paid $350 in a conservative southern state. Both places had sliding-scale pricing if a person was below the poverty level. I just didn't want to submit all my tax documents.

In New York it's free if you're 22 or under.

 

[sumstorm]

 

[Truth74]

Perhaps. That probably makes it easier to break up and not feel dumped.



LOL. Like you can afford raising a kid but you can't afford $1000 for an abortion. No wonder we have an economic crisis.

If you don't have the 1 grand at the time that you need it, you don't have that choice. And believe me when I say that children do cost a lot over time, but not usually 1000 dollars all at once. There are usually installment payments, like feeding yourself during pregnancy, clothing, and diapers, that don't cost much in one shot but add up over time.

 

[pyxystyx]

So are you as ready to strangle Dr. Liu and Keith for not posting our grades??? I'm gonna seriously die if I didn't pass the lecture.

Um,...


(Sidebar- yes gurl I am gonna kill them both! I need to know if I'm going to retake it or not in 5 days...)



Mkay, sorry. Continue.

 

[GeeQued]

Um,...


(Sidebar- yes gurl I am gonna kill them both! I need to know if I'm going to retake it or not in 5 days...)



Mkay, sorry. Continue.

Well I'm gonna hijack it again since your not on AIM to bug, but yeah biochem lec grades are up.

 

[Caninerepro]

Oh, and you are right....if you can't afford the money to have an abortion, you can't afford a kid, but there are many states in this country that will help fund the birth of a child but not an abortion. Part of why she couldn't afford an abortion was due to her own attendance in a nursing program.

.

What is more arrogant, not stepping up to your personal responsibility and taking care of your mistake, or making society pay for your mistake for 18 years, or more!

Not saying that you personally do not deserve to live.
Look this is getting WAY off topic. About the idea of paying for vet school?

 

[DVMorBust]

What is more arrogant, not stepping up to your personal responsibility and taking care of your mistake, or making society pay for your mistake for 18 years, or more!

Not saying that you personally do not deserve to live, but why should I have to pay for the fact that your mother could not keep her legs...

Seriously? It takes two to tango. The implication that it's always a slutty woman who bears the entire responsibility for becoming pregnant REALLY gets my goat up. Pregnancy can happen to anyone, on any method of BC barring organ removal.

Look. Once someone's pregnant, they have choices. Are some people going to say 'gee, I guess I'm raising a kid now?' of course. Are some going to high-tail it to the abortion clinic as fast as possible? Yup. Are some people going to give the kid up for adoption? Yessirree. By the time the woman's pregnant - THERE ARE ALREADY PROGRAMS IN PLACE. Susie Loo Who getting knocked up isn't taking money out of your pocket. The money's there, and it's a part of her decision. If it doesn't go to Susie, it'll go to Cindy.

Choice - learn the definition.

 

[sumstorm]

There never was a good war or a bad peace - Benjamin Franklin

 

[projekt]

I knew I was stepping on a live wire, but I couldn't help it

 

[DVMorBust]

Oh, in case you're wondering, my mother was on birth control at the time...however, she was also on an antibiotic, which she was unaware would affect her birth control (and it still isn't common for some doctors/pharamcists to mention that.)

See, the issue is not consenting adults sleeping with each other. The issue is education. There's no excuse for adults not knowing these things (antibiotic/BC interaction) - but that's not to say the fault is with them for not knowing. It's up to society to EDUCATE people so they can make the most informed decisions (choices!) possible. The problem is with the education, not the individuals who have to make decisions after society has failed them.

(btw - I'm another example of a mistake that didn't burden taxpayers' finances. Why does everyone forget about adoption in the great debate? As a separate third choice, mind. I HATE it when it's used as an argumentative replacement for abortion.)

Edit: that wasn't directed at you sumstorm; just piggybacking off you at the general public.

 

[natalieises]

As far as being able to afford an abortion vs having a child. I'm not completely schooled in this area, but isn't it extremely expensive all at once just to actually birth the child at a hospital? I know this to be true at least in Indiana, because my sister has deferred having another child for this very reason. Obviously the cost of raising a kid even in the first year is WAY beyond the cost of an abortion (which i believe is as cheap as $500 here in indiana). I'm sure insurance and what not covers some of those hospital costs, but it's still at least as much as abortion or much more.

As for people not being able to afford it all at once; I feel as though that isn't accurate. There are many clinics for this, and even I think I could afford to do this on a credit basis. And I literally only have enough money each month to pay my bills and buy minimal food. Taking out a few hundred dollars once is going to be way easier than having to spend that much money consistently over 18 years or beyond.

Does anyone know more about the actual costs just for the birth? I'm not trying to be confrontational with this, but the idea that you won't ever be spending as much money at once for a kid (as you would for an abortion) seems unreasonable.

 

[DVMorBust]

Does anyone know more about the actual costs just for the birth? I'm not trying to be confrontational with this, but the idea that you won't ever be spending as much money at once for a kid (as you would for an abortion) seems unreasonable.

I think there's a huge difference between basic 'holy crap, there's a baby coming out my cootch, hello emergency room!' (v. expensive, but you won't get refused) care versus 'I'm planning on a baby and want good pre-natal/perinatal care' (v. expensive, but more of a choice/prep work situation). I'm assuming most people would be going with the latter if they're actively planning for children.

 

[VAgirl]

There's no excuse for adults not knowing these things (antibiotic/BC interaction)

This has gotten way of topic, but I'm gonna chime in here anyhow...this one always blows my mind. I can't tell you how many smart, college educated women I've met who don't know the basics about BC, including what can significantly reduce the effectiveness of it. Really terrible. And of course men should know all of this stuff, too, but realistically, women need to know it more than anyone because in the end it generally affects them more.

 

[natalieises]

I agree vagirl. I have several friends who never knew about the antibiotic and bc reaction. A few of them even were having sex at the time, so luckily they didn't get pregnant! I can't believe pharmacies and doctors aren't educating people properly about this, and I feel as though that is a legal situation waiting to happen.

 

[GeeQued]

Well not to offend but at least in recent years all it takes is reading the labels on prescription meds. Every antibiotics I've taken has always said it reduces efficiency of bc and if its not blatently written on the label tabs its states in the write up pharmacists give you with your prescription.

 

[BayleeVet2B]

I agree vagirl. I have several friends who never knew about the antibiotic and bc reaction. A few of them even were having sex at the time, so luckily they didn't get pregnant! I can't believe pharmacies and doctors aren't educating people properly about this, and I feel as though that is a legal situation waiting to happen.

My mom is in the "human" medical field and actually the "antibiotic/birth control interaction" has not been scientifically proven to be true! Just my two cents worth in what is a VERY interesting conversation!!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12436822

 

[natalieises]

Well not to offend but at least in recent years all it takes is reading the labels on prescription meds. Every antibiotics I've taken has always said it reduces efficiency of bc and if its not blatently written on the label tabs its states in the write up pharmacists give you with your prescription.

This is sometimes the case, but in my friends cases it wasn't on the labels and no one told them. I agree though it could be in that lengthy information that most people throw out, but that isn't enough for such a serious complication. It should be in bold right on the bottle every time.

 

[Caninerepro]

OK Sumstorm, in that case I have absolutely no problem with the decisions your sperm and egg donor made. They chose to step up to their responsibilities and you are the fortunate beneficiary of their wisdom. I will have to admit that welfare/socialized medicine is a really sore spot with me.

Look, this is supposed to be a forum for undergraduate wannabe vets to learn a bit about professional school. Let us please get back on topic, myself included.

 

[sumstorm]

"It's still an important tool. Obviously, they don't stand alone like they used to but there's nothing like having visual contact with a verified navigation aid like a lighthouse. There can be no mistakes." - Dan Temko

 

[Pandacinny]

Not saying that you personally do not deserve to live, but why should I have to pay for the fact that your mother could not keep her legs...

WOW. Just WOW. I don't think I've ever seen someone say something so stupid and so judgmental on this board in the few years I've been on it. Maybe I spend too much time away from controversial threads or something, but it's usually a fairly professional place.

Seriously, I know we're all moving back on-topic, but could you please refrain from the "slut-shaming" here? Many of us are women and we get it in our daily lives...well, daily.

Also, it's really easy for someone who's admittedly always been financially okay and who has a guaranteed $100,000 salary (and mentions that like it's a pittance) after school to talk about "paying for others mistakes" since you've probably never needed government assistance yourself. I could be being presumptuous here, but seriously. Might be time to climb down off that high horse.

So this is on topic:

I think debt is something important to consider. However, some people here act like anyone choosing a more expensive option must be completely unable to think ahead and must never have lived life having to experience debt or hardship and, if only you could make everyone understand, they'd all make the "right" decision and go IS. I've experienced debt and loss and growing up in a poor family, too, but if I'd gotten into another school, I would've had a hard time making a decision and, in the end, would have based it on program and location, but would have tried to come up with a solid financial plan to see myself through. Luckily, I was only accepted to my IS school, so my decision was pretty easy. This is a really individual decision. I understand that, for most people, the intent is to INFORM others of the hardship of debt and of what can go wrong. It's just important to try not to sound like you're lecturing people.

 

[twelvetigers]

Abortion has jack crap to do with vet school, and while I think that was essentially the point made that started all this, how about if everyone quits the poop flinging and we get back on topic?

I'm going to apply IS and OOS, and while I'm certainly hoping that IS works for me, I will likely accept any OOS offer I get if IS doesn't pan out for one reason or another. If I were not willing to accept OOS, I would not have wasted the time and money to apply there in the first place.

As far as loan repayment, I plan on dealing with whatever amount I end up with. Sacrifices may be made on account of these required payments, but if it's the route I've chosen, then that's just how it will be. Unforseen expenditures are a concern, of course... but the same is true RIGHT NOW. We're on a fixed income, we have to make ends meet, and later on when loan payments are added, we'll still be on a fixed income - just a different one. Proper saving and investing is important, and it's really the only buffer we have against the unknown, be it now or after vet school.

 

[nyanko]

Well, apparently I shouldn't be alive (guess that would have eliminated my arrogance). My mother was one of those horrible people who couldn't scrape together the couple hundreds of dollars for an abortion, something I have known about most of my life. For her, it would have been more than just the cost of the abortion...the state she was in required 3 visits, each at $425 apiece (which is the same price they are now in that region of that state or higher if the pregnancy is more than 6 weeks), and each an 8 hour round trip. She, a collector of everything, actually kept the flyer for the clinic.

OH WAH WAH freaking WAH! I don't care about your mother or her decision to have a kid. Because it was still a decision. That she made. Regardless of the constraints on the decision, it was her choice. Which of course was my original point.

I lived a very hard scrabble childhood which has given me a different perspective than a lot of people. Part of why she couldn't afford an abortion was due to her own attendance in a nursing program.

I was in school at the time too. And tell me again please about your childhood and how terrible it was, I don't think I've shed enough tears yet.

Any arrogance I have comes from having walked on a lot of different paths which lets me see that sometimes what seems easily accomplished to one person is a literal impossability for another, and sometimes what one never expects will be the actual future.

Is that where it comes from? Your arrogance comes from the fact that you obviously can understand things on a much deeper level than everybody else. Are you sure that isn't just a manifestation of it, not the cause?

I have never assumed that anyone else has had the same oppurtunities that I have, and I have always hoped that others would not experience the same hardships. Part of that is not assuming that everyone could afford medical treatment, including abortions. I haven't said that borrowing money for vet school is a waste or shouldn't be done; I have advocated for making wise decisions that balance the fallacies of our world against the economics of debt, and not presuming that extra debt will have negligable affects on ones future.

And you've done your very best at making certain that anyone who disagrees with you feels like you're putting down their decisions and devaluing their life experiences with your constant one-upmanship. You already got into vet school (despite your posts upon posts about how you were getting rejected this year and what should you do to improve your application!!?), you can quit with that attitude anytime now.

 

[twelvetigers]

 

[nyanko]

I couldn't help it I just got home and the poo was just sitting there waiting to be flung!

And it's great because after the "your mom should have kept her legs closed" comment, I'm not even the biggest jerk in the thread anymore.

 

[vnair2]

This has become by far my favorite topic of all time. I am just chiming in to ensure that this topic never dies and to remind everyone to stay way off topic. The personal insults have been precious and I hope to god this never transitions back to a financial discussion.

A Few quick shout outs

I think there's a huge difference between basic 'holy crap, there's a baby coming out my cootch, hello emergency room!' (v. expensive, but you won't get refused) care...

I love it, classic. keep up the good work.

Not saying that you personally do not deserve to live, but why should I have to pay for the fact that your mother could not keep her legs...

Woh, I didn't see that coming. Mildly inappropriate, but strangely amusing none the less.

OH WAH WAH freaking WAH! I don't care about your mother or her decision to have a kid....And tell me again please about your childhood and how terrible it was, I don't think I've shed enough tears yet.

Agreed. You said what I was thinking but felt to guilty to vocalize. You earned my respect (sorry, that has no value)

And just to keep this fire burning, fuk you all.

Trolley troll troll troll.

 

[flyhi]

OMG, i was gone a day and look at all that i missed

Caninepro - that really was an a**inine statement - about the legs being spread and all.....get a life. Mostly women here and we don't need some pompous, righteous dude making idiotic statements like that - have just a sliver of respect for a moment and don't think about yourself (cause it's really not all about you - )

Seriously, anyone ever heard of ADOPTION?? What's all this bull about paying for abortions v. raising a child?? Gimme a friggin break. There are a ton of wonderful couples who would love to have your child and.......pay for everything...what a concept.

Sorry Twelvetigers, you are just way too sweet for all of this, but you can't usually go back once a post reaches this type of low

Just stokin the fire Vnair.....

 

[DVMorBust]

Sorry Twelvetigers, you are just way too sweet for all of this, but you can't usually go back once a post reaches this type of low

aww, I know! Although I had this great mental image of her sliding in on sock feet and singing her reprimand. Priceless. Wouldn't exchange it for the world.

Especially since, having no idea what twelvetigers looks like, in my mind's eye she's now always in socks, tighty whiteys, sunglasses, and a white button up shirt. And looking like Drew Barrymore's brother from Never Been Kissed.

 

[twelvetigers]

'Scuse? I only wear Victoria's Secret. Lol. And I'm pretty sure I look less than 1% like Drew Barrymore... and hopefully even less like her brother. Lol.

I'm not THAT sweet, jeez. I just choose my battles very carefully.