the future of pain

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kdlymes

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Where is our future going to? Obama is giving the Libyan rebels 25 million.
Lets see.....25 million = 2 billion by next year. Where is the money coming from? Medicaid cuts? Medicare? SS?

Maybe its time to practice somewhere else.
 
Where is our future going to? Obama is giving the Libyan rebels 25 million.
Lets see.....25 million = 2 billion by next year. Where is the money coming from? Medicaid cuts? Medicare? SS?

Maybe its time to practice somewhere else.

$25M / 100M people who pay taxes = 25 cents per taxpayer. Probably worth it to get Gaddhafi outta there. Just so long as we don't create another Aphganistan (which we will...).
 
25 mil is nothing, just a tank of oil nowdays.
 
actually more than 46% of households don't owe taxes... so you would have to figure it is more like 50cents per household of actual taxpayers...

the problem: the 50 cents is a down-payment towards another 2-3k per household... to "topple" a tribal leader who has a significant part of the population/military under his control
 
i dont like it any more than you do, but you can you think of a better country to practice pain medicine? would you make this much anywhere else?
 
monaco, dubai, shanghai... are a few places where you could easily have a cash-based practice with minimal tax consequences...

i would opt for Monaco...
 
monaco, dubai, shanghai... are a few places where you could easily have a cash-based practice with minimal tax consequences...

i would opt for Monaco...

i love that "grass is always greener".

Monaco is like 1 square mile built onto the side of a mountain. somethin tells me real estate / cost of living there would be a bit more than 'round here. ? live in France or Italy and work in Monaco? if thats even possible, im sure you'll get killed in taxes.

dubai? sure, as long as you like 115 degree weather and getting paid with blood money. oh, and make sure your wife gets of of those ninja suits.

or you could opt for the utopia of shanghai, with their 4 hour commutes, horrendous air quality, and overpopulation.

uh, thanks but no thanks. i think there is a reason why we all dont bolt out of the US to work.
 
i thought you were asking a better place to practice pain medicine without the implied hassles, i didn't realize I also had to meet life-style expectations too 🙂

1) Monaco is expensive, but the folk who live there don't blink at dropping 1-2k for an injection
2) Dubai is an issue - the contracts can be quite enticing, but often you are NOT allowed to bring your spouse -
3) Shanghai is expensive too, and the air quality would be concerning...
 
I do think we have to keep things in perpective. But the trajectory of practicing medicine in this country and the economy of this country really don't look very good to me.

From wiki:

The Isle of Man is a low-tax economy with no capital gains tax, wealth tax, stamp duty, or inheritance tax[47] and a top rate of income tax of 20%. A tax cap is in force; the maximum amount of tax payable by an individual is £100,000 or £200,000 for couples if they choose to have their incomes jointly assessed.

The rate of corporation tax is 0% for almost all types of income, the only exceptions are that the profits of banks are taxed at 10%, as is rental (or other) income from land and buildings situated on Mann.[48][49]

The Isle of Man has a temperate climate, with cool summers and mild winters. Average rainfall is higher than the average for the British Isles, due to its location at a sufficient distance from Ireland for moisture to be accumulated by the prevailing south-westerly winds. Average rainfall is highest at Snaefell, where it is around 1,900 millimetres (75 in) a year. At lower levels it can be around 800 millimetres (31 in) a year. Temperatures remain fairly cool, with the recorded maximum being 28.9 °C (84.0 °F) at Ronaldsway.
 
Where is the money coming from?

The same place as always: Helicopter Ben will print as much as we need. At some point $25M will be the price of a loaf of bread so don't worry about it.

Gold, silver & oil bitchez!
 
The same place as always: Helicopter Ben will print as much as we need. At some point $25M will be the price of a loaf of bread so don't worry about it.

Gold, silver & oil bitchez!

What is most worrisome to me is that many people think that printing money "worked" to "get us out of recession". It's now considered a legitimate tool and I can't imagine that it will NOT be used in the future at the drop of a hat for convenience.
 
actually more than 46% of households don't owe taxes... so you would have to figure it is more like 50cents per household of actual taxpayers...

the problem: the 50 cents is a down-payment towards another 2-3k per household... to "topple" a tribal leader who has a significant part of the population/military under his control

that was based on the statistic that there are about 300 million people in America, but only about 100M pay taxes.
 
The same place as always: Helicopter Ben will print as much as we need. At some point $25M will be the price of a loaf of bread so don't worry about it.

Gold, silver & oil bitchez!

And that is EXACTLY why I am in no rush to pay off my med school debt locked in at 3.75%.
 
What is most worrisome to me is that many people think that printing money "worked" to "get us out of recession". It's now considered a legitimate tool and I can't imagine that it will NOT be used in the future at the drop of a hat for convenience.

I don't know anyone outside of the Fed who thinks QE1 & 2 worked. It's been great for me but I am an investor and QE has inflated stock and commodity prices to insane levels. Whether they print or don't print it doesn't matter. There is no painless way out. Look at what QE has done for Japan - 20 years of stagnation.

What really scares me is that Japan has shown you can run QE up to 200% debt/GDP and stay alive. The U.S. is only half that. OMFG I hope Bernanke doesn't notice! 😱

Here's a nice summary, filled with sarcasm (the way I like it!) about the "recovery": http://www.oftwominds.com/blogapril11/lets-pretend-economy4-11.html
 
Sorry guys, there is no future for United States. It is a great place to work at currently, but thats changing soon. I expect the US economy to colapse by the end of the year or beginning of 2012. We are in a deep serious castrophobic crisis.

The world has become increasing nervous about the size of the growing U.S. debt. Just this week, America's debt topped $14.3 trillion an all-time high. The rest of the world wants to get away from using the dollar as the global economy reserve currency. When this happens, expect the dollar value to lose half its price. Take MMs advice, convert to gold and silver now.

Even key members of the Fed are openly worried about America's sea of red ink. Dallas Federal Reserve Bank President Richard Fisher said,
"If we continue down on the path on which the fiscal authorities put us, we will become insolvent" The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mike Mullen, has said many times, "I believe that our debt
is the greatest threat to our national security."

Why are so many people around the world converting their dollar to gold and silver? The University of Texas Investment Management Co. recently announced it bought almost $1 billion in gold bullion. According to a Bloomberg story this week, "The decision to turn the fund's investment into gold bars was influenced by Kyle Bass, a Dallas hedge
fund manager and member of the endowment's board . . . ‘Central banks are printing more money than they ever have, so what's the value of money in terms of purchases of goods and services,' Bass said yesterday in a telephone interview. "I look at gold as just another currency that they can't print any more of." I agree 100% They can not print gold!

Guess what amount of currency the feds are printing???? Ready......
75 billion dollars a month to fiance 70% of our goverment. Niether party mentioned this during Obamas tax cut program.

Something is not right here. Why did treasure secretary Timothy Geithner forgive bank of america 125 billion buy back of toxic mortage debt of Freddie Mac?

So what do you do? If you have any major expenses, car, home, etc do it now. Seriously, burying gold and silver is actually a good ideal. Time to pull the money out of the bank.
 
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MM, im a novice to the precious metals thing... but when you buy gold, you are actually buying physcial gold right? where do you put it? im serious. safety deposit box, mattress, back yard?

clearly im a novice. im too busy spending 10 hours a day saying "no i wont refill your oxycodone..."
 
MM, im a novice to the precious metals thing... but when you buy gold, you are actually buying physcial gold right? where do you put it? im serious. safety deposit box, mattress, back yard?

clearly im a novice. im too busy spending 10 hours a day saying "no i wont refill your oxycodone..."

Like he's gonna tell you!
 
Current politicians want exactly what you are asking....they want u to leave. They would rather have more sheeple than rich people around. Easier to control.
 
MM, im a novice to the precious metals thing... but when you buy gold, you are actually buying physcial gold right? where do you put it? im serious. safety deposit box, mattress, back yard?

clearly im a novice. im too busy spending 10 hours a day saying "no i wont refill your oxycodone..."

You want the physical gold vs a piece of paper saying that someones
holding your gold in a vault. I believe gold is going to double or triple in price if the dollar goes. Silver is a great buy too. Hold me accountable to that statement guys.

I recommend a well hidden safe. The safe can be in the house, garage or in your yard if you do not need access. Many people with yard safes build planters over them. They have to be designed for that type of install, as a normal safe may not be able to keep moisture out. In the house, cement the safe in the ground. Even a good thief will be unable to defeat an average safe. It takes special tools, drill bits and hours to get in. Apmex.com or monex.com are reputable brokers who will deliver these metals to your home. You would be surprise at the number of my colleagues pulling their money out of the banks and bringinging it to their homes. Do they know something? Our debt crisis has no fix.

Good pretend fix article MM. I know longer buy the amount of manure being fed to us.
 
Heres what I see happening now:

#1 USA is printing lots of paper/money and other countries are getting away from their holdings of dollars. China is dumping theirs quitely into commodities and businesses outside the US such as oil companies in south america. OPEC is in the process of taking oil off the US dollar as its price basis so now other countries can use their own currency to buy oil instead of having to convert to USD first. This further weakens the faith in the dollar. Over the past year the dollar is worth about 9% less then it was 12 months ago! If your stock portfolio went up 9% then you came out even.

#2 China is recovering from the recession quickly and are exporting inflation to US. We paid their workers very little for years to have our cheap wal-mart junk and now to deal with inflation their wages were increased 40% so now its costing more to have things made in china. Compared to other countries the US is a great place to vacation and buy things because other countries money goes a lot farther here.

Ok, now for the future: It looks like we will have to start making cheap junk for the chinese for their wal-marts at low wages. The dollar will crash, new money will be printed but will have chinese characters on it. Gold and silver will double, people who have stocks in companies based in other countries will fare much better than US based stocks.

As far as buying a safe, I recommend a rating of TL-15 or TL-30. This is what my jeweler uses and it means it takes a professional safe opener 15 and 30 minutes to cut a hole in the side of the safe with diamond/carbide bits, blow torche and hydraulic pressure.

I'm with MM and interested to hear his critique of what I have written above.
 
I don't know anyone outside of the Fed who thinks QE1 & 2 worked. It's been great for me but I am an investor and QE has inflated stock and commodity prices to insane levels. Whether they print or don't print it doesn't matter. There is no painless way out. Look at what QE has done for Japan - 20 years of stagnation.

What really scares me is that Japan has shown you can run QE up to 200% debt/GDP and stay alive. The U.S. is only half that. OMFG I hope Bernanke doesn't notice! 😱

Here's a nice summary, filled with sarcasm (the way I like it!) about the "recovery": http://www.oftwominds.com/blogapril11/lets-pretend-economy4-11.html

Haha, it's good to see some others are reading Charles' material. He simplifies a lot of stuff, but overall I agree with most of his views. I don't know what to think about his "contrarian" articles, though.
 
Heres what I see happening now:

#1 USA is printing lots of paper/money and other countries are getting away from their holdings of dollars. China is dumping theirs quitely into commodities and businesses outside the US such as oil companies in south america. OPEC is in the process of taking oil off the US dollar as its price basis so now other countries can use their own currency to buy oil instead of having to convert to USD first. This further weakens the faith in the dollar. Over the past year the dollar is worth about 9% less then it was 12 months ago! If your stock portfolio went up 9% then you came out even.

#2 China is recovering from the recession quickly and are exporting inflation to US. We paid their workers very little for years to have our cheap wal-mart junk and now to deal with inflation their wages were increased 40% so now its costing more to have things made in china. Compared to other countries the US is a great place to vacation and buy things because other countries money goes a lot farther here.

Ok, now for the future: It looks like we will have to start making cheap junk for the chinese for their wal-marts at low wages. The dollar will crash, new money will be printed but will have chinese characters on it. Gold and silver will double, people who have stocks in companies based in other countries will fare much better than US based stocks.

As far as buying a safe, I recommend a rating of TL-15 or TL-30. This is what my jeweler uses and it means it takes a professional safe opener 15 and 30 minutes to cut a hole in the side of the safe with diamond/carbide bits, blow torche and hydraulic pressure.

I'm with MM and interested to hear his critique of what I have written above.
What are you putting in the safe? Precious metals?
But yeah, I would agree with your assessment of the future of the US, and our currency. The long term outlook of the USD isn't very rosy, even though there may be quite a bit of volatility in the short term.
As far as the future of China, they too have some great hurdles to cross first. They have to find some way to increase their internal aggregate demand, so that they can eventually shift from an export economy to a consumer economy (cuz that's what it's all about, right?). If they aren't able to do this before the USD crashes, then their economy will get sucked right down along with ours. In the short and medium term, they also have to find a way to combat their inflation and real estate bubble, which has the potential of destroying vasts amounts of wealth and set them into a pretty deep recession.
This is just not a great time globally, as the financial system seems to crumbling under its own weight. The safest investments from here on out seem to be commodities, certain companies in stable industries, and precious metals.
 
Years ago, I would have told you all that you were crazy. Now I am in a frenzy to protect my savings. 157 banks failed last year. A major crash in the US banking system would limit my ability to withdrawl any cash.


Heres what I see happening now:

#1 USA is printing lots of paper/money and other countries are getting away from their holdings of dollars. China is dumping theirs quitely into commodities and businesses outside the US such as oil companies in south america. OPEC is in the process of taking oil off the US dollar as its price basis so now other countries can use their own currency to buy oil instead of having to convert to USD first. This further weakens the faith in the dollar. Over the past year the dollar is worth about 9% less then it was 12 months ago! If your stock portfolio went up 9% then you came out even.

What happens when the dollar loses 30% of its value? 50%, 80%
A precious metal investment is not a bad ideal. I am still a little freaked out about the story of Texas Investment Management co buying a billion in gold. Its almost like some of these firms have inside knowledge of a colapse while the rest of us are being led to the wolves.

The dollar will crash, new money will be printed but will have chinese characters on it. Gold and silver will double, people who have stocks in companies based in other countries will fare much better than US based stocks.

As far as buying a safe, I recommend a rating of TL-15 or TL-30. This is what my jeweler uses and it means it takes a professional safe opener 15 and 30 minutes to cut a hole in the side of the safe with diamond/carbide bits, blow torche and hydraulic pressure.

I'm with MM and interested to hear his critique of what I have written above.

Can anybody pm me good ideals on where to hide a safe? I think we should keep that material away from prying eyes. Thanks for the safe info.

What are you putting in the safe? Precious metals?
But yeah, I would agree with your assessment of the future of the US, and our currency. The long term outlook of the USD isn't very rosy, even though there may be quite a bit of volatility in the short term.
As far as the future of China, they too have some great hurdles to cross first. They have to find some way to increase their internal aggregate demand, so that they can eventually shift from an export economy to a consumer economy (cuz that's what it's all about, right?). If they aren't able to do this before the USD crashes, then their economy will get sucked right down along with ours. In the short and medium term, they also have to find a way to combat their inflation and real estate bubble, which has the potential of destroying vasts amounts of wealth and set them into a pretty deep recession.
This is just not a great time globally, as the financial system seems to crumbling under its own weight. The safest investments from here on out seem to be commodities, certain companies in stable industries, and precious metals.

I have to agree with this statement. If the Us economy goes, many countries will follow and then we are not to far from a global currency.
I have a feeling gold will hit 2200 by the end of the year.
 
I don't know anyone outside of the Fed who thinks QE1 & 2 worked. It's been great for me but I am an investor and QE has inflated stock and commodity prices to insane levels. Whether they print or don't print it doesn't matter. There is no painless way out. Look at what QE has done for Japan - 20 years of stagnation.

What really scares me is that Japan has shown you can run QE up to 200% debt/GDP and stay alive. The U.S. is only half that. OMFG I hope Bernanke doesn't notice! 😱

Here's a nice summary, filled with sarcasm (the way I like it!) about the "recovery": http://www.oftwominds.com/blogapril11/lets-pretend-economy4-11.html
I think one of the Fed's main goals was to create more fear of a shrinking dollar than is justified. It was SUPPOSED to force people to buy equities, which it did. And hire employees, which it didn't. The results on precious metal demand and foreign investments were collateral damage. But the total of all QE is less than 3T. No doubt significant, but with a US GDP of 15T, it hardly justifies the worth of silver quadrupling. I think PMs are a panic bubble. People see the prices rising and want in on the action just like a stock or anything else. It's been a great run but PMs cannot possibly sustain this level of appreciation. And when they stop appreciating, the game is up. Because no wants to carry around a truckload of metal.

I heard something on NPR about how FDR took us off the gold standard. They made it seem like he was a big victim of circumstance and had no choice. I really can't stand NPR and hope they go bankrupt so I can't listen to them anymore...
 
You want the physical gold vs a piece of paper saying that someones
holding your gold in a vault. I believe gold is going to double or triple in price if the dollar goes. Silver is a great buy too. Hold me accountable to that statement guys.

I recommend a well hidden safe. The safe can be in the house, garage or in your yard if you do not need access. Many people with yard safes build planters over them. They have to be designed for that type of install, as a normal safe may not be able to keep moisture out. In the house, cement the safe in the ground. Even a good thief will be unable to defeat an average safe. It takes special tools, drill bits and hours to get in. Apmex.com or monex.com are reputable brokers who will deliver these metals to your home. You would be surprise at the number of my colleagues pulling their money out of the banks and bringinging it to their homes. Do they know something? Our debt crisis has no fix.

Good pretend fix article MM. I know longer buy the amount of manure being fed to us.

I recommend you look at what happened (i.e. what the State's heavy handed response was) when the people of the United States last lost confidence in treasury notes... and then the discerning mind will find question in the security of holding precious metals. There is but one way to protect oneself from the ravages of an overbearing State -- to vote with your feet. Good luck trying to get your assets out when you do (especially if enough people also are seeing the light).
 
I think one of the Fed's main goals was to create more fear of a shrinking dollar than is justified. It was SUPPOSED to force people to buy equities, which it did. And hire employees, which it didn't. The results on precious metal demand and foreign investments were collateral damage. But the total of all QE is less than 3T. No doubt significant, but with a US GDP of 15T, it hardly justifies the worth of silver quadrupling. I think PMs are a panic bubble. People see the prices rising and want in on the action just like a stock or anything else. It's been a great run but PMs cannot possibly sustain this level of appreciation. And when they stop appreciating, the game is up. Because no wants to carry around a truckload of metal.

I heard something on NPR about how FDR took us off the gold standard. They made it seem like he was a big victim of circumstance and had no choice. I really can't stand NPR and hope they go bankrupt so I can't listen to them anymore...

FDR was a thieving ********er and he will be the very second person whose grill I kick in during the afterlife. The magnitude of the impact of Fed money creation is not limited to the $$$ figure represented on the balance sheet; it is very much influenced by how that money is allocated and to what end it is used. Due to the insolvency of our financial institutions they are parking a large portion of the money in the form of excess reserves to bolster their balance sheets; if (when?) this money enters the circulation via lending, and thanks to the marvel that is fractional reserve banking, that 3T of new money goes exponential.... and there is no safe or even superficially plausible exit strategy in play whereby the Fed could successfully mop up their intentional mess.
 
Wow. This thread has exploded. I can't address all the questions and comments, but a few things are starting to gel in my mind.

First of all, I have lived through the Arabs taking over the world in the 70s, the Japanese taking over the world in the 80s, and I think we'll squeak by China too. Come to think of it, I even survived The Red Menace. The Space Race seems so quaint now, just like the air raid drills we had in grade school (did you know that hiding under your desk will help you survive an atomic bomb?).

We are blessed with incredible natural resources, fertile lands, a temperate climate, and a fantastic river system that few countries will ever enjoy. In addition, we have extremely strong private property and human rights protection (although it seems to be eroding, especially in Michigan where the cops are now downloading your cell phone contents). No one wants to be an entrepreneur in a country where the government might take away your business or personal property. Look at the vast success of Venezuela under Comrade Hugo.

Asia might eventually ascend but they have huge geopolitical problems (and what have they been doing towards world domination the past 5,000 years?). They are not endowed with either the climate or geography we have. They have severe human rights and property rights problems. Their governments are even more corrupt than ours.

China has a centrally-run economy. When has that ever worked? Their economy is rotten to the core with fraud and corruption from top to bottom. They have blown a bubble even worse than ours and when it pops they will be knocked flat for decades - after the bloodbaths in the streets.

However, as a country we have been living on our credit cards for 40 years and that wealth, drawn forward from the future, has to be repaid (because "now" is yesterday's "future"). Wimpy will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today, but what does he do next Tuesday when he wants a hamburger? It's Tuesday for the USA.

We will not recover until the debts are dealt with, and there is more debt than anyone can get their mind around, public and private. It hasn't gone away; it's been shoved into places where you can't see it as well: gamed bank balance sheets (thanks to the FASB), Fannie/Freddie, the Fed, etc. The only place that it's out in the open is the housing industry because if you can't pay your mortgage or your rent or can't sell your house there's no hiding it.

The next few months will probably make you wet your pants. I don't know of any one strategy that will reliably work in the short term. When QE ends that will probably kick the pins out from under the stock market and commodities. Wall Street will be screaming for QE3. I don't know if we will eventually get QE3 or not. I don't think anyone can possibly know.

However, if they do QE3 they'll save stocks and commodities but cause even more inflation. I was thrilled with the performance of my stocks over the past 6 months until I realized that when priced in gold they haven't gone up at all. Needless to say, my cash priced in gold is a nightmare. Priced in silver I want to stick my head in the oven.

So QE3 or not, something will happen that you don't like. If you have no money to invest then "no QE3" will be your friend because it will decrease your cost of living, and you have no money to lose in your retirement plan. If you are rich and have a lot invested then you want QE3 because you don't care if it costs $100 to fill the limo's tank - you want your investments to rise.

The schmucks like us in the middle will take it in both ends - not rich enough to ignore inflation, not poor enough to have no retirement plan at stake.

Long term, I would stay with commodities. The pullbacks at the end of QE2 will be buying opportunities. I don't plan to sell any PM or other commodities. If you invest in PM you have to be comfortable watching your investment swing wildly up and down, especially silver.

Here's my commodity argument:

1. Real interest rates. Subtract the inflation rate from the return on a 1-year Treasury note. That's the real interest rate. If it's negative then your cash savings are being devalued. Right now real interest rates are negative and Bernanke intends to keep it that way. Too bad about people who want to save up some money or who have to live off their savings. We have bank executive bonuses that are in jeopardy.

2. Agriculture. Dust bowls are forming in China and Africa. China and India are draining their aquifers faster than they can replenish. The aquifers in the Middle East are largely fossil aquifers that don't replenish and in a year or two Saudi Arabia will have no agriculture to speak of. We are losing topsoil all over the globe. Phosphate is getting harder to find. If you don't like silver consider the "other white metal" - phosphorus - through miners or fertilizer companies. You can buy the stocks in a basket via the ETFs like MOO or PAGG, or you can try DBA which trades in agricultural commodity futures.

3. The race to Zimbabwe. In the current global economy you can't protect your economy with tariffs so you debase your currency to make your stuff cheaper than the other guy's. Everybody wants their currency to be cheapest.

4. The Middle East. 'nuff said. Own oil. My preference is the MLPs like PBT, SBR, and NRT. I bought these back in the 90s and they have paid off as well as gold for the past 10 years if you include the rich dividends.

The best hedge against debased currency is hard assets, and the most compact, fungible, and portable are the PMs. It's tough to store $1,000 worth of oil or corn. PMs also do well during uncertain times and the only times I can think of that are more uncertain than now are the ones yet to come.

It is a bad time to buy a house. It's very tempting. You can get a low rate and a low price, but when rates go up, the value of your house will drop. I'd wait, save money (in what form I can't say) and when rates go up and depress prices you walk in and plunk down a big wad of cash for the even cheaper house. Best of all worlds.

No, I'm not going to tell you where my gold is buried, except to say that it's not in my house. If you have a lick of sense you'll scatter it over several different vehicles.

Most of my PM investments are held in my retirement plan because buying and selling PM incurs some serious tax consequences. PMs are considered "collectibles" so you pay 28% tax on gains if you held more than a year as opposed to 15% for stocks held more than a year. Less than a year and it's taxed at your personal income tax bracket.

There is a lot of paranoid talk about GLD and SLV not really having the bullion they claim but George Soros has a lot of money in GLD and he is anything but stupid. The real worry would be shenanigans at the bullion vaults they use, which has been known to happen. Those kinds of games can hit any of the commonly traded funds.

Some people consider the ZKB bullion funds the safest but not all brokerages offer trades on the Swiss exchange. You can try the ZKB that trades in the American OTC market but it is very illiquid and the buy/sell spreads are painful. Some days it doesn't trade at all. I learned this the hard way. Personally I use SGOL and SIVR.

A safe deposit box is a reasonable place to park actual physical metal (although silver fills up a box very fast). If things go really bad then maybe someone will rob you as you leave the bank with your gold, or maybe the government will freeze the safe deposit boxes and confiscate the gold like they did during the First Great Depression.

There are also a few domestic private bullion vaults. These cost more and I think the government knows to look there too. If you have to bug out fast and you're using a vault in Delaware you have a problem. Unless you live in Delaware.

An off-shore vault is hard to arrange in our income bracket, but you can try goldmoney.com and bullionvault.com where you can not only store your metal offshore but trade it. BV and GM will both allow you to set up a special IRA to trade your bullion without tax consequences. And it's as safe as anything else on the Internet!

The best combo is probably some metal in a safe deposit box where you can access it easily, some in bullionvault/goldmoney to store it outside the country (either in a tax-deferred plan or outside), and some in bullion ETFs in a retirement account. That way you have the security of physical metal nearby, while you also have some assets that Uncle Sam can't reach and your trades won't incur huge tax hits. The only way they can get at those assets is if you liquidate your holdings, which defeats the whole point of confiscation.

DO NOT BUY PHYS OR PSLV - these are hideously bad vehicles that are sold to the "GLD doesn't really have any gold" crowd.
 
BTW, I wouldn't keep valuables in a safe at home. When the bad guys start cutting your kid's fingers off one by one, you'll gladly give them the combination to the safe.
 
Dang, it turns out the bad guys cutting off fingers will be the government.

I just finished reading 'The Taking' in this month's Pain Medicine News. Pretty bad- the author makes a good case for the government starting EMTALA II which would require all physicians to see anyone who walks into their clinic. This is to thwart physicians from not seeing patients because the government health plan doesn't pay enough.

Pretty much screwed
 
BTW, I wouldn't keep valuables in a safe at home. When the bad guys start cutting your kid's fingers off one by one, you'll gladly give them the combination to the safe.

That depends in what state your in. If someone is going to start cutting off fingers, they are going to kill you regardless.

My 2 german shepards, 12 gauge, and 357 magnum tell me things would go the other way. 😉
 
That depends in what state your in. If someone is going to start cutting off fingers, they are going to kill you regardless.

Exactly, if someone is going to threaten your family they are going to kill you. The trick is to keep them from getting to that point. Unlike the anti gun advocates on this forum, armed citizens will not have to sit by with their hands in their lap while some sociopath serves up their family. It's not a nice world, we need guns for protection.

My 2 german shepards, 12 gauge, and 357 magnum tell me things would go the other way. 😉

Got you beat dude, we have weapons in every room of our house equipped with lights and lasers. No matter where we are a firearm is nearby. There are no small children in the house and everyone is well educated on gun safety -all guns are loaded unless you have personally proven that they are not, never point your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy, always be sure of your target and what is behind it, never handle a weapon if you have had alcohol. There are also security doors and walls, 3 Doberman, 1 Rottweiler and a Pit. I live in Arizona, and we have Mexican gangs. If anyone breaks in my house and threatens my family, which would require scaling a wall and getting past the dogs, the only thing they will get is a toe tag and a body bag.
 
Got you beat dude, we have weapons in every room of our house equipped with lights and lasers. No matter where we are a firearm is nearby. There are no small children in the house and everyone is well educated on gun safety -all guns are loaded unless you have personally proven that they are not, never point your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy, always be sure of your target and what is behind it, never handle a weapon if you have had alcohol. There are also security doors and walls, 3 Doberman, 1 Rottweiler and a Pit. I live in Arizona, and we have Mexican gangs. If anyone breaks in my house and threatens my family, which would require scaling a wall and getting past the dogs, the only thing they will get is a toe tag and a body bag.

This is no way to live. I don't suppose moving somewhere safer is an option?
 
This is no way to live. I don't suppose moving somewhere safer is an option?

Unfortunately, home invasions can happen anywhere. If this economy gets worse, and a lot of us think it will, we will have to have armed guards just to guard our food
 
Got you beat dude, we have weapons in every room of our house equipped with lights and lasers. No matter where we are a firearm is nearby. There are no small children in the house and everyone is well educated on gun safety -all guns are loaded unless you have personally proven that they are not, never point your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy, always be sure of your target and what is behind it, never handle a weapon if you have had alcohol. There are also security doors and walls, 3 Doberman, 1 Rottweiler and a Pit. I live in Arizona, and we have Mexican gangs. If anyone breaks in my house and threatens my family, which would require scaling a wall and getting past the dogs, the only thing they will get is a toe tag and a body bag.

wow, that is SUPER safe. whatever could possible go wrong in that household?

im sorry, but if you want to strut your machismo, you have got to expect someone to callyou out on your ridiculousness
 
Got you beat dude, we have weapons in every room of our house equipped with lights and lasers. No matter where we are a firearm is nearby. There are no small children in the house and everyone is well educated on gun safety -all guns are loaded unless you have personally proven that they are not, never point your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy, always be sure of your target and what is behind it, never handle a weapon if you have had alcohol. There are also security doors and walls, 3 Doberman, 1 Rottweiler and a Pit. I live in Arizona, and we have Mexican gangs. If anyone breaks in my house and threatens my family, which would require scaling a wall and getting past the dogs, the only thing they will get is a toe tag and a body bag.

Very nice set-up Facets. Does your wife shoot also?

This is no way to live. I don't suppose moving somewhere safer is an option?

I'm sure Facets lives in a nice area. Home invaders target the higher class
neighborhoods. Are you in a gated community?

Unfortunately, home invasions can happen anywhere. If this economy gets worse, and a lot of us think it will, we will have to have armed guards just to guard our food

They say food and blue oil (water) is going to quadriple in price. This statement may not be far off. Storing a week or month of food may not be a bad ideal. Think back to the bad hurricanes and how food got snagged up within hours.

wow, that is SUPER safe. whatever could possible go wrong in that household?

im sorry, but if you want to strut your machismo, you have got to expect someone to callyou out on your ridiculousness

I wouldn't say macho, but well prepared. The crash of 2008 hurt alot of people, and the next crash will be worse. If people have to feed their families you can expect thugs to start picking on the weak. Recently I have added steel patio doors to my home just for this reason. Adding beware of dog signs and alarm signs are a good ideal. Even if you do not have either. Safety of the family is very important.
 
Safety of the family is very important.


agree completely, which is why your house shouldnt be armed with more guns than an army. i fail to see how a gun in every room makes you MORE safe? if there is a break in, what makes you think you are going to overpower a mexican gang? seems like they would be more likely to get/find all the guns in the house than the owner would.

and is that what you want? a shootout? good thinkin, tex.

take a few classes about guns, read some magazines, and go to the range, and then you are ready to be a commando and play "OK Corral" with gang bangers? what is wrong with this picture?
 
wow this is getting to be like a movie.....and this is a pain forum? I live in a condo with a coded elevator so i guess ill die of starvation on the 7th floor.
 
Got you beat dude, we have weapons in every room of our house equipped with lights and lasers. No matter where we are a firearm is nearby. There are no small children in the house and everyone is well educated on gun safety -all guns are loaded unless you have personally proven that they are not, never point your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy, always be sure of your target and what is behind it, never handle a weapon if you have had alcohol. There are also security doors and walls, 3 Doberman, 1 Rottweiler and a Pit. I live in Arizona, and we have Mexican gangs. If anyone breaks in my house and threatens my family, which would require scaling a wall and getting past the dogs, the only thing they will get is a toe tag and a body bag.

A nice house with 3 Dobermans, a Rottweiler, and a Pit? Talk about drawing attention to yourself from the wrong people. It's like advertising that you have something of interest inside. And I presume anyone interested enough to make an effort to get by those dogs would anticipate more than lollipops awaiting them inside, and plan accordingly. You're almost inviting a gang attack. One that would most likely overwhelm whatever marksmanship skills you may have and whatever weekend class and watermelon-shooting adventures your wife may have engaged in.

What they'd probably do though is just wait for the house to be empty and take a peek inside then, or if you really piqued their interest, kidnap one of you on the ride to the grocery store.
 
We are both Army veterans who are well versed in firearms. I disagree that having a house such as ours will make as more prone to a break-in. Criminals usually go for easy targets. There is nothing on the exterior that would indicate that there are firearms inside, no protected by Smith and Wesson, NRA stickers etc, it is a nice suburban home, and the dogs are not visable because of the gates. A criminal will not bother with scaling the walls and getting bit in the butt by the dogs they will go somewhere else to a home that is protected by good intentions and a desire for world peace. god forbid you have a firearm.
 
We are both Army veterans who are well versed in firearms. I disagree that having a house such as ours will make as more prone to a break-in. Criminals usually go for easy targets. There is nothing on the exterior that would indicate that there are firearms inside, no protected by Smith and Wesson, NRA stickers etc, it is a nice suburban home, and the dogs are not visable because of the gates. A criminal will not bother with scaling the walls and getting bit in the butt by the dogs they will go somewhere else to a home that is protected by good intentions and a desire for world peace. god forbid you have a firearm.

Small-time criminals go for easy targets. If the wrong person sees those dogs, they're going to think you have a bunch of drugs in the house. Unless you're Jackie Chan and your wife is Charles Bronson, you guys would have problems.
 
wow this is getting to be like a movie.....and this is a pain forum? I live in a condo with a coded elevator so i guess ill die of starvation on the 7th floor.

I'll send you some MREs
 
Small-time criminals go for easy targets. If the wrong person sees those dogs, they're going to think you have a bunch of drugs in the house. Unless you're Jackie Chan and your wife is Charles Bronson, you guys would have problems.

That's pretty unlikely unless they know you have something they want and can't get elsewhere. There are plenty of people with expensive homes and no dogs or alarm system that they'd rather go after than **** around with large dogs.
 
That's pretty unlikely unless they know you have something they want and can't get elsewhere. There are plenty of people with expensive homes and no dogs or alarm system that they'd rather go after than **** around with large dogs.


Yeah, like 100 lbs of coke.

5 attack dogs? C'mon. When your backyard looks like the set of a DMX video, you shift the attention from petty criminals looking to steal your dinnerware to organized rings looking to see what you're protecting with such fervor.
 
Yeah, like 100 lbs of coke.

5 attack dogs? C'mon. When your backyard looks like the set of a DMX video, you shift the attention from petty criminals looking to steal your dinnerware to organized rings looking to see what you're protecting with such fervor.

So a few big dogs outside and he obviously must have large quantities of drugs in the house? Most home invasions are to obtain 100 lbs of coke and not people looking for a quick, easy robbery? And you are seriously questioning HIS thought process? 🙄

Yes he may be over prepared for a home invasion. However I'd rather be over prepared than under. You would be surprised to know the number of people who think as this poster does.
 
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