The “Holistic” Difference

[DrNakMuay4]

I am a happy OMS-1 and do not regret at all choosing to go on the DO path. However, I am getting a little sick of the “holistic” term just thrown around DO practice with no basis. In a way it seems slightly belittling... like osteopathic physicians focus less on medical detail and more on the human “spirit”. Based on my shadowing and research the “holistic” difference is not so prominent. I would just like to know what TRULY separates osteopathic and allopathic care (barring OMM). Of course this is a loaded and relative question but I am curious what others think. I genuinely do not notice a difference in care other than age (most DOs I have interacted with are younger).

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[Chibucks15]

Literally nothing. And there's a billion threads on here about it. Just keep your head down, push through, and do whatever you wanna do with your title of bone wizard

 

[Osminog]

The “holistic” stuff is just a desperate attempt to rationalize the baseless, artificial separation of DO education from MD education. The notion that DOs are trained to “treat the whole individual” while MDs “treat only the disease” is both inaccurate and insulting, and it only serves to fuel the anti-DO stigma.

Beyond a knowledge of OMM (grounded in tradition... and in very shaky science), there is no difference when it comes to clinical practice.

 

[Chibucks15]

The “holistic” stuff is just a desperate attempt to rationalize the baseless, artificial separation of DO education from MD education. The notion that DOs are trained to “treat the whole individual” while MDs “treat only the disease” is both inaccurate and insulting, and it only serves to fuel the anti-DO stigma.

Beyond a knowledge of OMM (grounded in tradition... and in very shaky science), there is no difference when it comes to clinical practice.

Chill out bud it is nothing of what you’re saying. It’s just a catch phrase DO schools use there isn’t malice to it

 

[Little Green Mensch]

Sir William Osler said, “The good physician treats the disease; the great physician treats the patient who has the disease.” The idea of treating the whole patient, rather than just the presenting pathology, is at least a bit older than the D.O. degree.

Also, "holistic" is a dogwhistle for "primary care." Change my mind.

 

[NotYou20]

Chill out bud it is nothing of what you’re saying. It’s just a catch phrase DO schools use there isn’t malice to it

Failing to realize that the phrase implies MDs don't recognize or care about all of their patients needs doesn't mean it isn't a bit nasty.

 

[Osminog]

Chill out bud it is nothing of what you’re saying. It’s just a catch phrase DO schools use there isn’t malice to it

I didn’t say there’s “malice to it.”

As modern medicine has progressed, the osteopathic medical profession has had less and less reason to continue its independent existence. In an effort to counteract the trend, DO officials cling to certain “catchphrases,” as you call them, to set the DO profession apart.

While there’s no malice behind these catchphrases, they’re inaccurate and they carry negative, derogatory implications about MDs.

 

[Chibucks15]

Honestly who cares? It isn’t derogatory by any means. If you bring up any of your ‘concerns’ no self-respecting DO student would tell you otherwise. It’s a harmless catch phrase that’s marketing. If you say holistic in your interview you get marked down for it

Seems like people are trying to find things to be offended by now

 

[Osminog]

Honestly who cares? It isn’t derogatory by any means. If you bring up any of your ‘concerns’ no self-respecting DO student would tell you otherwise. It’s a harmless catch phrase that’s marketing. If you say holistic in your interview you get marked down for it

Seems like people are trying to find things to be offended by now

It’s harmful because it’s untrue and it serves as an implicit insult to MDs. DOs don’t have a rightful claim to “holistic care” and “treating the individual,” and they shouldn’t pretend like they do.

If you think it’s harmless to take credit you don’t deserve just to stand out, then so be it; your personal opinion doesn’t matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. When MDs hear about how uniquely “holistic” DOs are and about their supposedly unique ability to “treat more than the disease,” it breeds resentment toward DOs. That’s the reality. And when DO students are applying to residencies, those are the opinions that will truly matter, not yours.

 

[Espressso]

It’s harmful because it’s untrue and it serves as an implicit insult to MDs. DOs don’t have a rightful claim to “holistic care” and “treating the individual,” and they shouldn’t pretend like they do.

If you think it’s harmless to take credit you don’t deserve just to stand out, then so be it; your personal opinion doesn’t matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. When MDs hear about how uniquely “holistic” DOs are and about their supposedly unique ability to “treat more than the disease,” it breeds resentment toward DOs. That’s the reality. And when DO students are applying to residencies, those are the opinions that will truly matter, not yours.

lol this guy. You love to stir the pot don't you? If you're insulted by someone claiming they practice with a more "holistic" approach, good luck in the real world. You're going to need it.

 

[Osminog]

lol this guy. You love to stir the pot don't you? If you're insulted by someone claiming they practice with a more "holistic" approach, good luck in the real world. You're going to need it.

I just think it’s disgraceful to take credit where credit isn’t due for personal gain. The fact of the matter is that there’s zero evidence that DOs practice in a uniquely “holistic,” individual-centered way, and to say so is to be dishonest.

Here’s an analogy: If DMD programs came out and falsely claimed that DMDs are uniquely equipped to “treat the patient, not just the teeth,” you can be sure that those holding DDS degrees wouldn’t take that so well and that some would even harbor outright contempt toward DMDs. Also, DMDs with a backbone and moral compass would call out DMD programs on their BS.

 

[Chibucks15]

I just think it’s disgraceful to take credit where credit isn’t due for personal gain. The fact of the matter is that there’s zero evidence that DOs practice in a uniquely “holistic,” individual-centered way, and to say so is to be dishonest.

Here’s an analogy: If DMD programs came out and falsely claimed that DMDs are uniquely equipped to “treat the patient, not just the teeth,” you can be sure that those holding DDS degrees wouldn’t take that so well and that some would even harbor outright contempt toward DMDs. Also, DMDs with a backbone and moral compass would call out DMD programs on their BS.

Dude there isn’t a damn (real) difference between dentists. I couldn’t tell you which one I’ve gone to. Grow thicker skin.

It. Doesn’t. Matter. You have an extremely low bar for “disgraceful” by the way

Find me MDs who actually give a damn about the “holistic” thing and I’ll maybe give you a little leeway here but I can guarantee you it’s not even close to a third

 

[Neopolymath]

This type of stuff and "the MDs won't teach you this" and " use your osteopathic training to understand blah blah" are just your dog whistle from weak DO faculty to take a jab at MDs. It's pathetic and it comes off like a really mediocre sports team trying to make a rivalry happen with another team that doesn't even acknowledge it's existence. Sad stuff.

 

[Chibucks15]

This type of stuff and "the MDs won't teach you this" and " use your osteopathic training to understand blah blah" are just your dog whistle from weak DO faculty to take a jab at MDs. It's pathetic and it comes off like a really mediocre sports team trying to make a rivalry happen with another team that doesn't even acknowledge it's existence. Sad stuff.

Eh I’ll give you that. If there are faculty like that that’s one thing but we never have that happen (that I can remember) so maybe I’m at a school that is less into all that nonsense? Who knows

 

[anthony78001]

there is no difference if a patient seeks out a DO specifically because they think they have a better bed side manner or will treat the whole person instead of jumping to drugs thats their opinion of what a DO is but in reality there is no difference between DOs and MDs nowadays.

I tell people its chiropractic/physical therapy manipulations + an MD thats what DO med school is all about we learn it as tradition since in the 1800s OMM was used because that was the best we could offer patients in those days.

 

[DO2015CA]

Eh I’ll give you that. If there are faculty like that that’s one thing but we never have that happen (that I can remember) so maybe I’m at a school that is less into all that nonsense? Who knows

We had one. Do you know what all the students did? Rolled their eyes and let whatever they said enter one ear and out the other. That person didn’t last long. You can have idiotic people within the profession but this doesn’t mean the whole profession is that way. There are these type of idiots on every profession.

 

[Goro]

I am a happy OMS-1 and do not regret at all choosing to go on the DO path. However, I am getting a little sick of the “holistic” term just thrown around DO practice with no basis. In a way it seems slightly belittling... like osteopathic physicians focus less on medical detail and more on the human “spirit”. Based on my shadowing and research the “holistic” difference is not so prominent. I would just like to know what TRULY separates osteopathic and allopathic care (barring OMM). Of course this is a loaded and relative question but I am curious what others think. I genuinely do not notice a difference in care other than age (most DOs I have interacted with are younger).

I think the "DOs are holistic" kool-aid is an insult to our MD colleagues. It may have been true 40-100 years ago, but the world has moved on.

Just smile at your True Believer faculty who spout this, nod your head, and then change the AOA from the inside when you make attending.

FYI, I've noticed a significant difference in the attitudes in the pre-DO forum about this since I joined SDN in ~2012. The kids are vastly less likely to spout this propaganda. So somehow, the message is getting out there that it was indeed kool-aid.
When I first joined out Faculty, the then current Chair of the OMM/OMT Dept' would never miss an opportunity to take aslam at MDs. Usually it was "the patient had this problem than MDs couldn't figure out and I fixed in in ten mins!"

He eventually got fired and his replacement was a breath of fresh air. Somehow my school still maintained more than mere lip service to Osteopathy, without the True Believers managing to turn the deo['t into a cult.

Over time, we've hired younger OMM/OMT Faculty and the shade seems to be disappearing. We have only one True Believer left. If only they'd stop teaching about Chapman's points!

tl,dr, over time, things have been improving.

 

[Chibucks15]

I think the "DOs are holistic" kool-aid is an insult to our MD colleagues. It may have been true 40-100 years ago, but the world has moved on.

Just smile at your True Believer faculty who spout this, nod your head, and then change the AOA from the inside when you make attending.

FYI, I've noticed a significant difference in the attitudes in the pre-DO forum about this since I joined SDN in ~2012. The kids are vastly less likely to spout this propaganda. So somehow, the message is getting out there that it was indeed kool-aid.

But at the same time it seems like people are more apt to get extremely offended by it so it’s a wash

 

[Goro]

But at the same time it seems like people are more apt to get extremely offended by it so it’s a wash

Well, younger people seem to be offended by anything these day, even sunlight.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I am a happy OMS-1 and do not regret at all choosing to go on the DO path. However, I am getting a little sick of the “holistic” term just thrown around DO practice with no basis. In a way it seems slightly belittling... like osteopathic physicians focus less on medical detail and more on the human “spirit”. Based on my shadowing and research the “holistic” difference is not so prominent. I would just like to know what TRULY separates osteopathic and allopathic care (barring OMM). Of course this is a loaded and relative question but I am curious what others think. I genuinely do not notice a difference in care other than age (most DOs I have interacted with are younger).

If you're almost through your first year of med school, and you still haven't realized that there is literally no difference, idk what to tell you...

 

[DrNakMuay4]

If you're almost through your first year of med school, and you still haven't realized that there is literally no difference, idk what to tell you...

Nope I am starting this summer! Just want to hear some opinions from others.

 

[Osminog]

Nope I am starting this summer!

I think that makes you an OMS-0, not an OMS-1.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Nope I am starting this summer! Just want to hear some opinions from others.

Okay this makes SO much more sense lol (also, sorry if I came off rude in my post-- looking back on it I see how it may have come off that way)

Basically, there's no difference. Show up, try not to roll your eyes when your OMM professor talks about diagnosing appendicitis with Chapman's points, and focus on your real classes. One of my favorite moments was in a small group learning activity when our MD pediatrician was like "okay, I just have to tell you-- cranial bones don't move!!!". No one except for a select few believe in any of the OMM trash outside of soft tissue/MET (which is basically like physical therapy stuff). As they say, just smile and nod.

 

[DrNakMuay4]

Much appreciated!

 

[DrNakMuay4]

I think that makes you an OMS-0, not an OMS-1.

Sorry! I will be more specific next time just for you. OMS-almost

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I would just like to know what TRULY separates osteopathic and allopathic care (barring OMM).

Nothing. OMM is literally the only thing.

Failing to realize that the phrase implies MDs don't recognize or care about all of their patients needs doesn't mean it isn't a bit nasty.

#DOctors that DO

I just think it’s disgraceful to take credit where credit isn’t due for personal gain.

Eh, you just described the entire world of advertising.

When I first joined out Faculty, the then current Chair of the OMM/OMT Dept' would never miss an opportunity to take aslam at MDs. Usually it was "the patient had this problem than MDs couldn't figure out and I fixed in in ten mins!"

try not to roll your eyes when your OMM professor talks about diagnosing appendicitis with Chapman's points, and focus on your real classes.

"The EKG and Troponins were clean but I found a Chapman's Point on the chest and urged them to start treatment for an MI!"

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

I cannot thank you enough for this quote.

osteopathic physicians focus less on medical detail and more on the human “spirit"

Every single time someone asks what a DO is or says I thought you wanted to be a doctor I'm going to reply with this. I'm going to be a soul doctor. Like the cross between a priest and a doctor. Someone who touches people inappropriately and make them feel better.

 

[DrNakMuay4]

LOL. NAILED it.

 

[Hippocrates II]

Chill out bud it is nothing of what you’re saying. It’s just a catch phrase DO schools use there isn’t malice to it

Eh, gonna have to disagree. Our school has specifically said DO > MD when it comes to treating the whole patient. More than once they've made it sound like MDs just sit there focusing on a disease while the DO is the one that focuses on the whole picture. It is both insulting to MDs and hilariously out of touch with reality.

 

[Goro]

I think that makes you an OMS-0, not an OMS-1.

You're being too kind.

You what the difference is between a first year med student and pre-med senior?

Summer vacation.

 

[Ho0v-man]

When I was shadowing I did notice that the older DOs would consider psycho-social factors compared to MDs. That’s about it from my n=1 study.

Studying omm for boards makes me realize that at least at a preclinical level, we probably do have a stronger msk base just bc we have to. It’s nothing amazing necessarily, but we have to know more special tests for that type of stuff.

Beyond that, the DO difference in my experience has just been paying more tuition for less prestige.

 

[Chibucks15]

When I was shadowing I did notice that the older DOs would consider psycho-social factors compared to MDs. That’s about it from my n=1 study.

Studying omm for boards makes me realize that at least at a preclinical level, we probably do have a stronger msk base just bc we have to. It’s nothing amazing necessarily, but we have to know more special tests for that type of stuff.

Beyond that, the DO difference in my experience has just been paying more tuition for less prestige.

There's a lot of anatomy I feel a lot better in now because of OMM. It is in no way worth the extra nonsense that comes with it, but silver linings