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The Ivory Tower.

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by Gregory Gulick, Mar 2, 1999.

  1. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    265
    2
    Nov 9, 1998
    Largo, Florida (USA)
    There was a new article recetly published on the internet about getting into medical school. It is available at:

    http://204.71.206.120/it/career/1999/01/15career.html

    As always, I don't agree with the way osteopathic medicine is portrayed in the article. Nor was I very impressed with the individuals they interviewed concerning it. I never object to people stating that osteopathic medicine is a fallback option for many, but they should also contact individuals who sincerely CHOOSE to become osteopathic physicians.

    I especially enjoyed the following segment:

    "You can either be a doctor or an osteopath," says Casey Dellabarca, a 27-year-old medical student at Trinity College in Dublin. "Going to a foreign country to study at one of their top universities is more appealing than studying osteopathy."

    Casey sounds very bright and well informed (for someone raised in a bomb shelter).

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. KennyP

    KennyP Junior Member 10+ Year Member

    22
    0
    Feb 15, 1999
    Philadelphia, PA
    I read somewhere that Docotrs of Osteopathy (D.O.'s in Europe)are only trained in manipulative medicine. Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine (D.O.'s in the States) are trained in conventional medical practices as well as manipulative medicine. If this is correct, you can understand why the medical student from Dublin would draw a distinct difference between becoming an M.D. as opposed to a D.O. If the medical student meant that he/she picked to go to a foreign medical school (Dublin) as opposed to an Osteopathic Medical School here in the States, than your observation and comment is accurate! Just a thought.......

    The following is a "transcript" of the information I read on the FAQ's located at the SOMA homepage.

    Q4: What is the difference between osteopathy and osteopathic medicine,and between an osteopath and osteopathic physician?

    A4: It is easy to be confused concerning the many "osteo" words. The difference is quite simple. The profession was discovered in 1874 by Andrew Taylor Stil1, M.D. as "osteopathy." As mentioned above, this is a combination of the words "bone" and "suffer." Literally meaning, "bone suffering." At the time of its
    founding, the system did not include medical pharmacology so only manual manipulative "medicine" was practiced by its students. However, over time as drugs became better researched and safer to use (early 1900s), osteopathy began incorporating medications and surgery into their treatment. With the osteopathic profession now offering all medical treatment modalities in addition to
    osteopathic manipulation, the American Osteopathic Association (the legislating
    body of osteopathic medicine) decided in 1960 to change the name of the profession to "osteopathic medicine" and the name of the practitioners from "osteopath" to "osteopathic physician."

    Outside the USA, the terms "osteopath" and "osteopathy" are used to describe D.O.s trained there. Non-North American D.O.s are only instructed manipulative medicine (osteopathic manipulation) and are NOT trained in pharmacology, surgery, etc. Their practice is limited to osteopathic manipulation. (Similar to chiropractors in the US, but not the same) Unfortunately, this adds some confusion to the degree.

    ------------------

    Keneth C.Plowey (PCOM '03)
    [email protected]

     
  4. DO DUDE

    DO DUDE Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    135
    0
    Nov 17, 1998
    After reading the article and concluding that Dellabarca falls into the category of those "raised in a bomb shelter", (in the U.S.!), I think good 'ole Casey would be better off serving those in Europe than here.

    Man, the ignorance is truly profound that some consider the letters "MD" so important that they would be willing to actually leave the U.S. for it.
     
  5. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    265
    2
    Nov 9, 1998
    Largo, Florida (USA)
    Yeah, I wrote that stuff you just cited, Kenny. [​IMG]

    Casey was an American student that went to Dublin to avoid having to become a D.O. in the states. And I agree with you, DO DUDE, I don't think it would be fair for the U.S. to steal such a fine physician from Dublin after they've gone through the trouble of educating him/her. Therefore, I think she should remain in Dublin. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. KennyP

    KennyP Junior Member 10+ Year Member

    22
    0
    Feb 15, 1999
    Philadelphia, PA
    Greg, I guess I picked the right person to quote from, huh?

    ------------------

    Keneth C.Plowey (PCOM '03)
    [email protected]

     
  7. edgar

    edgar Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    237
    0
    Nov 1, 1998
    Pomona, CA
    I find this Casey person intriguing. I may be biased because I am proud to be a future DO and did not apply allopathic, but if I were only strictly interested in allopathic medicine I think the DO route is still a better way to go. You will still be considered an American medical school graduate and would still have priority over foreign doctors for residency placements. DOs can take the USMLE board exam just like MD students, and if anything the academic reputation of DO schools is better than most off-shore medical schools (especially compared to the Caribbean). Most US teaching hospitals have rules against letting foreign medical students do clerkships in the states, and so that is another strike against going out-of-country. The difference between having an MD or DO degree doesn't matter these days anyways, almost all of the patients at my DO mentor's practice don't even know he is a DO, they assume he is an MD because he treats 98% of his patients just like an MD anyways. Just my opinion.

    EDGAR
    WesternU-COMP
    Class of 2003
     
  8. I don't think there is any sense in taking comments personally if people are biased against osteo pathic medicine. As I believe edgar mentioned it is much easier to get a residency in the United States with a DO compared to a foreign MD degree, especially if you are an American getting a foreign medical degree. I believe this is especially true for primary care residencies where many osteopathic graduates pursue allopathic residencies
     
  9. premed1

    premed1 Member 10+ Year Member

    33
    0
    Oct 30, 1998
    Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
    I think that this goes to show that the AOA needs do a better job of educating the public.

    Everyone should know that being an osteopathic physician is: "something extra, not something else".

    Premed1
    WesternU 2003


    [This message has been edited by premed1 (edited 03-03-99).]

    [This message has been edited by premed1 (edited 03-03-99).]
     
  10. NickCVM

    NickCVM Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    118
    0
    Dec 27, 1998
    Nashville, TN
    It confirms my opinion that the AOA has no business going ?international? when we have so many problems here at home. I?m with premed 1 on this ? something needs to be done to 1/ educate people about our profession, 2/ improve residencies.
    --Nicolas--
    WesternU'03

     
  11. drusso

    drusso Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    6,212
    1,596
    Nov 21, 1998
    Over the rainbow
    I think that it's time that Hippocrates gets a few letters to the editor on the subject. Those who will be writing please remember to be respectful and professional.

    --dave
     
  12. edgar

    edgar Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    237
    0
    Nov 1, 1998
    Pomona, CA
    Right on folks!

    I think a major problem for osteopathic medicine is that the public and pre-meds in particular are convinced that DOs are not medical doctors. I recently visited the official website of the Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons of California and I like the fact that they put in bold print that D.O.s are medical doctors.

    I knew a friend from undergrad school who ended up getting an M.D. from a med school in India because he "did not believe in the osteopathic philosophy." I personally cannot fathom going out of the United States just to get the M.D. initials behind your name when as a D.O. you can do the same exact things, you just have a different label.

    I visited the website Gregory was referring to, and it bothered me that "Casey" called our profession "osteopathy." I don't have a problem with the word per se, but I think his tone was condescending and arrogant. Finally, I also don't agree with the article because it seems to assume that osteopathic schools are only to be considered if one can't get into an MD school. And they also make the assumption that DO schools are "nontraditional", I don't know what that means because osteopathic medicine has been around since the 1860s. Traditional or not, DOs are medical doctors and they are equivalent in every way to MDs, it's just that we are a minority group in medicine and misunderstood by the public.

    EDGAR
     
  13. DOPhD student

    DOPhD student Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    145
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    Nov 18, 1998
    somewhere on earth
    Don't let these folks rattle your chain, people. So who cares what they think? Afterall, they don't make the laws and they're not paying salaries.
     
  14. UW

    UW New Member

    4
    0
    Jan 25, 1999
    Glendale, AZ
    I agree. I actually didn't even have that much problem with the article. They stated that the training is similar to allopathic schools except for the different philosophical approach and employment of manipulative medicine. Perhaps they could have given the point of view from someone who chose to go to osteopathic school over an American allopathic school, but nonetheless different viewpoints concerning osteopathic medicine were represented (Ali Tehrani).
    Perhaps it was unnerving to read negative opinions about osteopathic medicine, but some people have those views. I think if Casey wanted to go abroad in order to get his M.D. initials...Good for him. He knows what he wants.
    I also think it is in the A.O.A's interest to promote itself internationally as well as nationally. We live in a global world, and recognition is recognition.

    ------------------

     
  15. NickCVM

    NickCVM Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    118
    0
    Dec 27, 1998
    Nashville, TN
    UW
    It seems to me that going international at this point would only add to the confusion - after all DO's from other countries are NOT medical doctors. It would create however an opportunity for US DO students to
    go and study somewhere else for a while - get an "international experience".

    In all honesty, I just think it is better to resolve all problems at "home base" first - then expend. DO it backwards and we might end up with nothing.
    That what just my 2 cents on this issue - hope to be able to much more than talk after I become a DO.
    --Nicolas--
    WesternU'03
     

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