The latest addition to my little family

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I agree, and in fact have derided it for almost every purpose it has been marketed for. That being said, it is just about perfect for protection against a pit bull sized animal in the hands of someone who doesn't shoot frequently in an area where there are other houses in some proximity.

A .410 or a 20g long gun would offer better protection, with less chance of hitting something you did not intend to, but would be less portable.

The shotshell in the Judge gives you reduced range liability over typical handguns in case of an errant shot.

The likelihood of hitting a person that is in proximity to the dog is slightly increased, but the likelihood of doing serious damage to that person if they are hit is significantly decreased.


Whatever they get, it should be a reliable revolver. I would never recommend a semiautomatic handgun for protection for anyone who is not shooting and practicing malfunction drills with regularity.

- pod
 
I'm on the ipad right now and can't see that, I'll check it later..

ETA: I agree with your last post about dog protection..
 
Pulled out my dad's 4" colt python today thanks to this thread, 4", perfectly blued. Range trip will be made soon.
 
pgg said:
I have nothing new to share with the forum. The ATF is taking its sweet time as they always do, but I'll post pics when the goods are out of Form 4 purgatory. The checks cleared 3/11 so I'm thinking July ...
Click to expand...

As promised ... and I have to say I'm impressed that the ATF got it done in almost exactly two months. 😀 😀 😀

suppressors.jpg


Grainy cell phone pic but hey, they're black tubes.

The little one is a SilencerCo stainless sparrow - primarily a 22lr can, but also rated for 5.7. My brother has it mounted on his AR57 right now.

The big one is a Surefire FA762K ... I loaded up a bunch of subsonic .308 rounds a couple weeks ago. That's gonna be fun.

Just need a couple of consecutive days off to drive across the border to the free state where they now live with my brother/co-trustee. 😀


Still waiting on the .45 Osprey. 🙁
 
I just recently got into revolvers. I was brought up with only semiauto pistols, but am loving my 357. I'm on a resident's budget, so I went with a Taurus. I'll usually warm up with a box of 38 spl before moving up to the magnums.

I agree with POD about revolver over semiauto for protection; I love my 9 but it has a problem with failure to extract.
 
BADMD said:
Nice cans. I'm hoping my state legalizes them so I can get a few.



What powder/bullet combo?
Click to expand...

1x Federal brass
Lapua 200g subsonic .30 cal bullets
10.0 g of Trail Boss powder
Rem large rifle magnum primers
2.800" OAL, no crimp

Getting about 950-1000 fps out of a 20" AR10 barrel. Not enough to cycle it. Maybe once the can is on and the pressure goes up.

The barrel is a 1 x 11.25" twist but it stabilizes the 200g Lapua bullets fine. Haven't tried other bullets yet but I will eventually as the Lapuas are expensive and not in stock often.

Lots of people are using the Trail Boss for subsonic rifle loads. It's super bulky and fills most of the case. Some people drill out the primer flash holes to help ensure a good burn with mostly empty cases but I didn't.
 
pgg said:
Getting about 950-1000 fps out of a 20" AR10 barrel. Not enough to cycle it. Maybe once the can is on and the pressure goes up.
Click to expand...

Hopefully that will give you enough pressure. I'd love to know when you try. I shoot a DPMS LR308L and a spare AP4 upper.

Since 300 Blackout uses a 220 gr bullet for their subsonics, I have to wonder if you will get enough gas out to cycle, even suppressed. It doesn't look like there is much choice in the 220gr .308 line that isn't a SMK or a round nose, so bigger bullet-more powder might not be much of a choice, even ignoring the stabilization issue.

Good luck
 
BADMD said:
Hopefully that will give you enough pressure. I'd love to know when you try. I shoot a DPMS LR308L and a spare AP4 upper.

Since 300 Blackout uses a 220 gr bullet for their subsonics, I have to wonder if you will get enough gas out to cycle, even suppressed. It doesn't look like there is much choice in the 220gr .308 line that isn't a SMK or a round nose, so bigger bullet-more powder might not be much of a choice, even ignoring the stabilization issue.

Good luck
Click to expand...

The Noveske 300 Blackout rifles I was eyeballing the other day had barrel twists of 1 x 8" ... I don't think I'm going to have much luck with heavier bullets in my 1 x 11.25" AR10.

The Lapua 200 g subsonic bullets are, supposedly, designed to be stable at slower speeds and slower twist rates. They're kind of odd looking, different than most rifle bullets, rearword center of mass and a jacket that minimizes contact with the barrel. They're stable and accurate (limited by me) out of my gun.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=381996

If there's not enough pressure to cycle it with the can on, the other thing I guess I could try is a lighter buffer. If that doesn't work, I'll just have to be happy with manually charging every round. 🙂
 
pgg said:
1x Federal brass
Lapua 200g subsonic .30 cal bullets
10.0 g of Trail Boss powder
Rem large rifle magnum primers
2.800" OAL, no crimp

Getting about 950-1000 fps out of a 20" AR10 barrel. Not enough to cycle it. Maybe once the can is on and the pressure goes up.

The barrel is a 1 x 11.25" twist but it stabilizes the 200g Lapua bullets fine. Haven't tried other bullets yet but I will eventually as the Lapuas are expensive and not in stock often.

Lots of people are using the Trail Boss for subsonic rifle loads. It's super bulky and fills most of the case. Some people drill out the primer flash holes to help ensure a good burn with mostly empty cases but I didn't.
Click to expand...

Try it out yet? Seems like you're gonna be pressing pretty close to supersonic with the can on
 
loveoforganic said:
Try it out yet? Seems like you're gonna be pressing pretty close to supersonic with the can on
Click to expand...

Finally chrono'd some through the can over the weekend. 997 - 1020 fps and pretty accurate too, though of course it drops a LOT once past 50-100 yards.

Won't cycle the gun with the switchable gas block in either position, but that's a tolerable compromise for silence.

Even with ordinary supersonics I think it's probably on the edge of hearing safe, but I wear ear plugs anyway.


Also spent some time with my brother's AR57 and the .22 Sparrow can, nice.

We have two more forms out now for SBR lowers, one upper will be a .300 Blackout. A quiet .30 cal semiauto rifle that reliably cycles ... that'll be fun.

Looking for a dedicated 9mm can now too. Was just going to use the .45 Osprey + adapter on the the 9mm handguns, but that's an awfully big can for the compact guns.
 
I've read good things about the .45 working on 9mm, but if you have the money! Hoping to pick up an entry/mid-level AR 15 in .223 for a good price at the end of MS1 if I budget well - have a friend of a friend who would assemble an upper and lower for free, so hopefully can make it happen :xf: Class 3 land is still a long way away though, so, jealous!
 
GypsySongman said:
Any recommendations for an inexpensive basic home protection handgun?
Click to expand...

This question comes up a lot in other forums I peruse, so allow me to give my input.

If the sole purpose of this firearm is for home defense, then I recommend a 20ga remington 870 with a fore end light. There are few sounds in this world more distinctive than the racking of an 870, and it is guaranteed to make an intruder **** in his pants. Aside from that, handguns are "precision instruments" and require a lot of practice to be accurate, especially during a deadly force adrenaline dump. A shotgun needs only be pointed in the general direction to create devastating injury, and no handgun will ever come close to the stopping power of a shotgun, period. I recommended the 20ga because they are infinitely more comfortable to shoot than a 12ga. Obviously the 12ga is a better choice, but you need to go fire both and figure out which you prefer. 20 rounds of 12ga 00 buck or slugs makes my shoulder quite sore.

Now, if you are interested in handguns, perhaps for ccw, range fun, etc, and you are using the "home defense" argument to get the wife to buy into it, then by all means go for it. Handguns are quite a bit of fun to shoot and can be adequate for home protection. I agree with pgg that you need to go to the range and shoot several to find what you prefer, but I would suggest sticking to simple combat handguns without active manual safeties. This includes glock, sig, smith and wesson m&p, springfield XD (passive safety), and a few other manufacturers. I don't believe in safeties on combat defensive handguns, to me it's one more thing I need to be worried about when I need to be thinking about backdrop, cover, point, squeeze, threat, etc.. If you are new to handguns, I would absolutely steer you away from any 1911. Properly maintained, these are beautifully crafted pieces of American history that pack a punch, but the thing is they are very finicky and also have an active manual safety. One must be intimately familiar with their 1911 and take very good care of it for it to function properly, and it takes a good deal of practice to be comfortable with the draw/safety disengage to the level of defensive proficiency.

On a final note, before the caliber argument comes up, studies far and wide pretty much agree that caliber is irrelevant, it is shot placement and luck that count.

These are, of course, my own opinions. Please seek the opinions of many before you form your own.
 
A shotgun needs only be pointed in the general direction to create devastating injury, and no handgun will ever come close to the stopping power of a shotgun, period.
Click to expand...

I think this is what you meant, but just to clarify, a hit with a shotgun has a much higher chance of creating a quickly debilitating injury than a handgun (e.g. through breaking a support bone, hitting CNS, or, more slowly, hitting something CV). Still have to put the sights on target though.

👍 Everything you've said
 
There's no one correct answer but I have to respectfully disagree with the shotgun advice above. I think shotguns are poor personal defense weapons especially for people new to firearms, for a few reasons.
  • They still need to be aimed. At self-defense ranges, the shot pattern is going to be a couple inches at most. It is a myth that shotguns are point-n-obliterate everything in a general direction.
  • Limited magazine capacity and very slow reloading.
  • Very easy to short-stroke a pump action in the heat of the moment, especially for beginners.
  • Long guns are, well, long and not as maneuverable in close quarters.
  • The allegedly intimidating "racking" sound is a non-factor. First, when your magazine capacity is so limited in the first place, the gun should be stored with one in the chamber from the start. Second, if they can already see you with the shotgun there's no point; if they can't see you, it's ******ed to alert the intruder to your presence by making noise.
  • It's non-concealable. A first/only gun should be a handgun that can be carried.

Totally agree about the no-safety handgun. This is one reason I like DA/SA Sigs and carry a 220.

All just my humble opinion.

I think the ideal home defense gun is a suppressed short-barreled AR15, but that's $$$ and not legal in all states.
 
At 10-15 feet, 00 buck will give a group that is about 5-8". This is not a scientific statement, just an approximation based on my qualifications. Certainly it is not a point and obliterate, but it is much easier to point shoot for someone with limited experience than a handgun.

4-6 in the tube, hammer down, chamber empty is how we carry them in the cruiser, I assume that comes both from them being safe and negating the safety in that condition, but I do also know that we were taught of the effectiveness of that racking sound. It is definitely distinctive and can be readily identified by anyone in the vicinity.

As for your argument of magazine capacity, I would argue that if you can't get the job done with 4-6 rounds of 00 buck, you probably wouldn't get it done with 18 rounds of 9mm either.

I do intend to write my post with the utmost respect, any inferred arrogance or argumentativeness is entirely accidental.
 
FiremedicMike said:
This question comes up a lot in other forums I peruse, so allow me to give my input.

If the sole purpose of this firearm is for home defense, then I recommend a 20ga remington 870 with a fore end light. There are few sounds in this world more distinctive than the racking of an 870, and it is guaranteed to make an intruder **** in his pants. Aside from that, handguns are "precision instruments" and require a lot of practice to be accurate, especially during a deadly force adrenaline dump. A shotgun needs only be pointed in the general direction to create devastating injury, and no handgun will ever come close to the stopping power of a shotgun, period. I recommended the 20ga because they are infinitely more comfortable to shoot than a 12ga. Obviously the 12ga is a better choice, but you need to go fire both and figure out which you prefer. 20 rounds of 12ga 00 buck or slugs makes my shoulder quite sore.

Now, if you are interested in handguns, perhaps for ccw, range fun, etc, and you are using the "home defense" argument to get the wife to buy into it, then by all means go for it. Handguns are quite a bit of fun to shoot and can be adequate for home protection. I agree with pgg that you need to go to the range and shoot several to find what you prefer, but I would suggest sticking to simple combat handguns without active manual safeties. This includes glock, sig, smith and wesson m&p, springfield XD (passive safety), and a few other manufacturers. I don't believe in safeties on combat defensive handguns, to me it's one more thing I need to be worried about when I need to be thinking about backdrop, cover, point, squeeze, threat, etc.. If you are new to handguns, I would absolutely steer you away from any 1911. Properly maintained, these are beautifully crafted pieces of American history that pack a punch, but the thing is they are very finicky and also have an active manual safety. One must be intimately familiar with their 1911 and take very good care of it for it to function properly, and it takes a good deal of practice to be comfortable with the draw/safety disengage to the level of defensive proficiency.

On a final note, before the caliber argument comes up, studies far and wide pretty much agree that caliber is irrelevant, it is shot placement and luck that count.

These are, of course, my own opinions. Please seek the opinions of many before you form your own.
Click to expand...

Well I already have a 410 and a 12 gauge...
 
Well there you go.. Lol

In that case, try any of the above discussed guns in whatever caliber you like (I'd steer clear of .40, which is essentially a 9mm with twice the recoil) toss a weapon mounted light on it (I like the tlr-1), and have at it! 🙂
 
I'm surprised how many gun nuts we have on SDN. Despite coming from a very large law enforcement family and being raised to shoot, I never felt the urge to purchase one.
 
diphenyl said:
I'm surprised how many gun nuts we have on SDN. Despite coming from a very large law enforcement family and being raised to shoot, I never felt the urge to purchase one.
Click to expand...

How do you define gun nuts? It's too imprecise of a term, in my opinion.

If people were purchasing guns/gun related equipment at the detriment to their financial well being, you could probably call them gun addicts, but I hardly doubt that's the case.

I would agree if you argue people on the SDN Anesthesia board (can't speak of other boards) have a passion for guns.

I actually increased my interest and shed some of my own myths about guns and gun control because two of my colleagues encouraged me to take a handgun course and get my carry permit.

Considering that you read this far into a thread I could argue that you have a significant interest of your own.

Considering the response when I asked a scuba diving question, I'd say there is a fairly large number that have an interest in that also. Once I started taking my scuba diving class and talking to some of colleagues about it, I found several who also dive. After I've done a dive I tend to discuss it with my colleagues. It's a starting point for a conversation that can lead in many directions. It's much better than starting a complaint session.
 
diphenyl said:
I'm surprised how many gun nuts we have on SDN. Despite coming from a very large law enforcement family and being raised to shoot, I never felt the urge to purchase one.
Click to expand...

Huh. This surprises me as much as hearing someone say they come from a very large firefighter family, but never felt the urge to purchase a fire extinguisher.




FiremedicMike - no offense taken of course. I realize I'm in kind of an odd minority in not really liking shotguns as home defense guns. Lots of people with better credentials than me think they're an excellent first choice.

I don't think the police cruiser example really applies. First, because an officer also always carries a handgun, second because cops tend to travel in packs when somebody needs shooting, third because you guys are usually on offense when the long guns come out.

Every once in a while I short stroke a shotgun when shooting clays and that 'failure rate' alone is enough to convince me to never make a pump shotgun a goto self defense gun. It's possible I just suck with shotguns, but I'd wager most beginners asking what to get for self defense suck worse than me.

One of these days I'm going to pick up a Benelli M4 ... 'cause they're cool. 😀
 
Well I will put in my 2 pesos that a novice handgunner should not rely on a semi-auto for defense. Perhaps something more along the lines of the gun that started this thread.

What is the malfunction drill for a revolver?


Pull the trigger again.



Ok, not entirely true, but close enough.

- pod
 
Hey guys.. I ve been looking into handguns lately and have been interested in purchasing a new one. I don't have much experience with them (got a s&w sigma 9mm right before med school but only really shot it a handful of times) but I've been trying to learn and have been looking into it a lot lately.

I ve been thinking of either a .40 or a .45 caliber.. I ve been looking I to glocks vs. Springfield xd/xdm's vs. 1911's. I don't have a ton of money to spend (currently a new MS IV).. Any recommendations?

I m kinda really drawn to the Springfield XDM 5.25 9mm.. Any thoughts on it?
 
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