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The "magic number" and the MSAR.

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Karina 07, May 13, 2007.

  1. Karina 07

    Karina 07 Banned Banned 5+ Year Member

    319
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    May 1, 2006
    Please don't flame me for asking, I just had a thought and would like some clarification....

    The "magic number" (MCAT + 10(GPA) - 1, I believe) that people keep talking about... could one, in theory, make up a list of these magic numbers using the MSAR and post the list somewhere by number? It wouldn't disaggregate them, so I believe it would not be actually breaking any copyright.
     
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  3. 146233

    146233 Phthirius pubis

    6,531
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    Apr 12, 2007
    Sure. Go right ahead.
     
  4. Doctor~Detroit

    Doctor~Detroit this poll sux!!! 2+ Year Member

    1,423
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    May 9, 2006
    an issue is that msar reports *accepted* average numbers, while i think the *matriculated* average numbers like those provided by usnews are more meaningful for assessing one's own chances.

    i think this is the case because there seem to be a number of schools that aren't quite "top tier" but accept applicants with the highest numbers. then when these applicants predictably turn down the acceptance offer, the schools admits lots of students off the waitlist with more reasonable numbers. now add to that the fact that a student with 45/4.0 numbers gets counted in the *accepted* stats at *each* school to which she gets accepted, but only gets counted once in the *matriculated stats*.

    so accepted stats can end up a few points higher than matriculated stats, and this gives a misleading view of one's chances. it looks more difficult than it is.
     
  5. Old ortho

    Old ortho 2+ Year Member

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    Mar 11, 2007
    There is a website with the MCAT and GPA:

    http://www.medschoolready.com/app/medstatistics.asp?iMD=Y&iSO=AL&iST=&iCO=&cSU=++Refresh+School+Info
     
  6. jdr55

    jdr55 10+ Year Member

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    Mar 8, 2007
    Dublin, Ireland
    Does that website show matriculated or accepted?
     
  7. Karina 07

    Karina 07 Banned Banned 5+ Year Member

    319
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    May 1, 2006
    Cool!

    Well, in a few weeks I'll post some for the low end :p. If it turns out my boyf has to re-apply again and has to re-think schools (doing the whole put in one school, get AMCAS verified while figuring out the others thing...).

    Other people feel free to post other bits that you've created for yourself, and eventually a list will be made at relatively low hassle to all!

    I'm imagining something like:

    ...
    66: School A, school B, etc.
    65: School C, school D, etc.
    ...

    Great!
     
  8. xanthomondo

    xanthomondo nom nom nom Banned Physician 10+ Year Member

    Magic # School
    76.9 Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine
    74.8 Duke University School of Medicine
    73.8 Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
    73.5 Baylor College of Medicine
    73.5 Harvard Medical School
    73.3 Yale University School of Medicine
    73.2 University of California, San Diego, School of Medicine
    73.2 University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine
    73.2 University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas Southwestern Medical School
    73.1 New York University School of Medicine
    73.1 Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
    73 Northwestern University, The Feinberg School of Medicine
    73 University of Michigan Medical School
    72.9 Joan & Sanford I. Weill Medical College of Cornell University
    72.8 Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
    72.7 Emory University School of Medicine
    72.7 Stanford University School of Medicine
    72.6 Mount Sinai School of Medicine of New York University
    72.6 University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
    72.2 University of California, San Francisco, School of Medicine
    72.1 University of Chicago Division of the Biological Sciences The Pritzker School of Medicine
    71.8 Dartmouth Medical School
    71.5 Mayo Medical School
    71.2 Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
    71.1 Ohio State University College of Medicine and Public Health
    71.1 Tufts University School of Medicine
    70.9 Brown Medical School
    70.9 Keck School of Medicine of the University of Southern California
    70.9 University of Virginia School of Medicine
    70.4 University of Colorado Health Sciences Center School of Medicine
    70.4 University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
    70.3 University of Connecticut School of Medicine
    70.2 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine
    69.9 University of Massachusetts Medical School
    69.8 David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA
    69.8 University of Florida College of Medicine
    69.8 University of Wisconsin Medical School
    69.4 Albert Einstein College of Medicine of Yeshiva University
    69.3 Oregon Health & Science University School of Medicine
    69.3 University of California, Irvine, College of Medicine
    69.3 University of Iowa Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine
    69.2 Stony Brook University Health Sciences Center School of Medicine
    69.2 University of Maryland School of Medicine
    69.1 Boston University School of Medicine
    69.1 University of California, Davis, School of Medicine
    68.8 UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School
    68.6 Saint Louis University School of Medicine
    68.5 University of Minnesota Medical School - Twin Cities
    68.4 University of Missouri-Columbia School of Medicine
    68.1 Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine
    68.1 State University of New York Downstate Medical Center College of Medicine
    68.1 University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
    68.1 University of Nebraska College of Medicine
    68 State University of New York Upstate Medical University
    68 University of Washington School of Medicine
    67.9 Creighton University School of Medicine
    67.9 Georgetown University School of Medicine
    67.9 Medical College of Georgia School of Medicine
    67.9 University of Arizona College of Medicine
    67.9 University of Oklahoma College of Medicine
    67.7 Medical College of Wisconsin
    67.7 University of Alabama School of Medicine
    67.7 University of Miami Leonard M. Miller School of Medicine
    67.6 University of Kansas School of Medicine
    67.5 Indiana University School of Medicine
    67.4 University of South Florida College of Medicine
    67.3 Rush Medical College of Rush University Medical Center
    67.3 Texas A & M University System Health Science Center College of Medicine
    67.3 Wake Forest University School of Medicine
    67.2 Jefferson Medical College of Thomas Jefferson University
    67.2 University of Nevada School of Medicine
    67.1 University of Kentucky College of Medicine
    67 New York Medical College
    66.9 University of South Alabama College of Medicine
    66.9 University of Texas Medical School at Houston
    66.8 Drexel University College of Medicine
    66.7 Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine
    66.6 Loma Linda University School of Medicine
    66.6 Medical University of Ohio at Toledo
    66.4 University at Buffalo State University of New York School of Medicine & Biomedical Sciences
    66.4 University of South Dakota School of Medicine
    66.4 Wayne State University School of Medicine
    66.3 Louisiana State University School of Medicine in New Orleans
    66.3 Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine
    66.2 East Tennessee State University James H. Quillen College of Medicine
    66.2 George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences
    66.1 Temple University School of Medicine
    66.1 UMDNJ--New Jersey Medical School
    66.1 University of Tennessee Health Science Center College of Medicine
    66.1 University of Utah School of Medicine
    66.1 University of Vermont College of Medicine
    66 Tulane University School of Medicine
    65.9 University of New Mexico School of Medicine
    65.8 University of Illinois College of Medicine
    65.8 University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston
    65.7 Medical University of South Carolina College of Medicine
    65.6 Albany Medical College
    65.6 Eastern Virginia Medical School
    65.6 Michigan State University College of Human Medicine
    65.5 University of North Dakota School of Medicine and Health Sciences
    65.4 Uniformed Services U of the Health Sci F Edward Hebert SOM
    65.4 University of South Carolina School of Medicine
    65.4 University of Texas Medical School at San Antonio
    65.3 University of Louisville School of Medicine
    65.2 University of Hawaii John A. Burns School of Medicine
    64.9 Chicago Medical School at Rosalind Franklin U-Med & Sci
    64.9 University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences College of Medicine
    64.7 University of Minnesota Medical School - Duluth
    64.7 Wright State University School of Medicine
    64.7 Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center School of Medicine
    64.5 West Virginia University School of Medicine
    64.3 Louisiana State University School of Medicine in Shreveport
    64.3 Southern Illinois University School of Medicine
    63.9 University of Mississippi School of Medicine
    63.8 Florida State U College of Medicine
    63.8 Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine
    63.3 Mercer University School of Medicine
    62.7 Brody School of Medicine at East Carolina University
    61.8 Joan C. Edwards School of Medicine at Marshall University
    60.6 Morehouse School of Medicine
    58.9 University of Puerto Rico School of Medicine
    58.7 Howard University College of Medicine
    57.5 Meharry Medical College
    56.3 Ponce School of Medicine
    53.5 Universidad Central del Caribe School of Medicine
     
  9. xanthomondo

    xanthomondo nom nom nom Banned Physician 10+ Year Member

    these numbers are based off of the medschoolready stats
     
  10. UMP

    UMP Recovered Under-Achiever 7+ Year Member

    2,911
    6
    Aug 27, 2004
    you forgot to do the -1 ;) and those look like the MSAR numbers... the USWNR are better since they are for matriculated students... I'd be willing to do it based on the USNWR numbers, but my subscription from last year ran out... hint, hint ;)
     
  11. killinsound

    killinsound Physician 10+ Year Member

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    Aug 30, 2006
    what's "the magic number?"
     
  12. Depakote

    Depakote Pediatric Anesthesiologist Rocket Scientist Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    I thought those numbers looked a littel fishy... that explains it.
     
  13. Doctor~Detroit

    Doctor~Detroit this poll sux!!! 2+ Year Member

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    May 9, 2006
    yeah. i tried explaining this before the calculations . . .
     
  14. AnesthesiaMD

    AnesthesiaMD 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 4, 2007
    It makes no difference if a -1 is implemented. As long as one figures his/her personal "magic number" the same way, it effectively makes 0 difference. ;)
     
  15. AnesthesiaMD

    AnesthesiaMD 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 4, 2007
    These numbers are consistent with my MSAR.
     
  16. DrMccodell

    DrMccodell 5+ Year Member

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    May 9, 2007
    Who came up with these magic numbers? Do medical schools use this or is it something that students came up with? Just a bit confused on how much emphasis I should place on these #s....
    Also, what would be considered a safe region (like + or - 1 pt?) and what would be considered a safety region (like - 2pts?) and a reach region (like +2pts?)
    Thanks for the clarification guys and gals!
     
  17. xanthomondo

    xanthomondo nom nom nom Banned Physician 10+ Year Member

    I thought that one's chance can be gauged by taking the "magic number" from the school and subtracting 1, and then comparing it to your own score.

    Not to mention I think this is complete bull****, comparing my "magic number" i got flatout rejected from schools way lower.

    I have a 69, and I didn't receive an interview from nymc, jeff, psu, and a few others.
     
  18. AnesthesiaMD

    AnesthesiaMD 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 4, 2007
    do MSARs only come out once every couple of years? I see the current issue has data from the entering class of 2005. Will there be any info. on the class of 2006? 2007? etc? Thanks.
     
  19. AnesthesiaMD

    AnesthesiaMD 2+ Year Member

    479
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    Jan 4, 2007
    These number include the -1...hope it helps

    Howard University 56.5
    Southern Illinois 60.4
    Mercer 60.9
    East Carolina University 61.0
    FSU 61.0
    Wright State 61.8
    Rosalind Franklin 62.0
    University of South Carolina 62.1
    Virginia Commonwealth 62.2
    MSU 62.4
    GWU 62.5
    Texas Tech 62.5
    University of Vermont 62.5
    University of Tennessee 62.7
    University of Arkansas 62.8
    East Tennessee State 63.2
    Uniformed Services U. 63.3
    University of North Dakota 63.3
    Medical University of SC 63.4
    University of New Mexico 63.4
    Albany Medical College 63.4
    West Virginia University 63.4
    UNDNJ 63.5
    University of South Dakota 63.5
    EVMS 63.8
    SUNY - Syracuse 63.8
    SUNY - Buffalo 63.8
    University of Kentucky 63.9
    University of Utah 63.9
    University of IL - Chicago 63.9
    NYMC 64.0
    University of Kansas 64.1
    UT - Houston 64.1
    UT - Galveston 64.1
    Texas A&M 64.2
    Drexel 64.3
    Northeastern Ohio U. 64.5
    University of Oklahoma 64.6
    Loyola 64.9
    Medical University of OH 64.9
    Temple 64.9
    USF 64.9
    University of Cincinnati 65.2
    University of Arizona 65.4
    Indiana University 65.5
    UMDNJ - RWJ 65.5
    University of Miami 65.5
    Medical College of GA 65.6
    University of Nebraska 65.6
    Wake Forest 65.6
    G'town 65.7
    Rush 65.8
    Creighton University 65.9
    Jefferson 65.9
    MCW 65.9
    University of Connecticut 65.9
    UC - Davis 66.0
    University of MO - Columbia 66.2
    University of Minnesota 66.4
    U. Alabama - Birmingham 66.5
    University of Maryland 66.5
    OHSU 66.6
    University of Iowa 66.7
    University of Washington 66.7
    University of Florida 67.0
    Yeshiva 67.0
    Stony Brook 67.1
    Tufts 67.2
    U. of MA - Worcester 67.2
    U. Wisconsin - Madison 67.2
    UC - Irvine 67.3
    UNC - Chapel Hill 67.3
    St. Louis University 67.5
    Boston University 67.6
    University of Rochester 67.9
    USC 68.0
    Dartmouth 68.1
    Case Western Reserve 68.2
    Brown University 68.5
    UC - Los Angeles 68.5
    University of Virginia 68.5
    Ohio State 68.6
    Emory 68.7
    Mount Sinai 68.7
    Pritzker 69.1
    University of Pittsburgh 69.1
    NYU 69.3
    UC - San Diego 69.3
    University of Colorado 69.4
    Mayo 69.6
    Stanford 69.7
    Southwestern - Dallas 69.8
    Northwestern 70.1
    Vanderbilt 70.2
    University of Michigan 70.4
    Baylor College of Medicine 70.6
    Cornell University 70.8
    UC - San Francisco 70.8
    Yale 71.3
    Harvard 71.7
    University of Pennsylvania 71.7
    Hopkins 71.9
    Columbia University 72.3
    Duke 72.7
    Washington University 74.4

    note: some schools are not available.
     
  20. UMP

    UMP Recovered Under-Achiever 7+ Year Member

    2,911
    6
    Aug 27, 2004
    schools get a -1... you don't get a -1... It's a silly system as it is... if you don't do any subtractions I think you need to be within 2 points to have a solid shot
     
  21. DrBowtie

    DrBowtie Final Countdown Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    15,492
    1,852
    Feb 24, 2005
    Classyville
    A new MSAR comes out every year but there is a year or two lag in the data for it to be collected and analyzed.
     
  22. PseudomonasPAO1

    PseudomonasPAO1 New Member 7+ Year Member

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    Aug 14, 2006
    Miami, FL
    I thought about this the other day, and wonder if the "magic #" distribution is really that tight? You can see the range for MCAT sections in MSAR, but you can't really quantify it. I guess we'd need more complete stats to complete the magic # approximation. Any adcoms wish to enlighten us? :)
     
  23. premeddick

    premeddick Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Aug 14, 2006
    I am sure the formula is not this tight or no one would get into Harvard with a 3.6 33. There has to be additions to the formula like where you did your undergrad, what your undergrad major was, if you have any other higher degrees, if you are outstanding at something... Plus you have to remember that the magic # is only the average, or sum of the medians as the case may be, so there are plenty of people who attend with much higher scores, which means people also get in with much lower. Maybe an adcomm could comment on this.
     
  24. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

    20,318
    23,096
    Mar 7, 2005
    The magic number is a starting point. Someone who has relatively poor academic performance as an undergrad and/or poor test scores, might have some extraordinary factors that play into the decision to grant an interview/offer admission despite the relatively poor showing academically. That person might pull down a mean, particularly if the school has a relatively small student body, but will have little, if any, effect on the median (it won't matter if the lowest MCAT score is 25 or 29 if exactly half of the stuents have MCAT scores at or below 33).

    Medians are much better than means (what we usually call "average") because they are less influenced by outliers (either very high or very low). I've always figured that the average gpa and MCAT are bell curves that are fairly tall and narrow and they may have long tails of outliers on either end, or both ends.

    With regard to getting rejected from schools where you have a higher number than the school's magic number... there are some schools that just might not bother with very high achieving applicants with the expectation that those applicants will not matriculate. Some schools resent being seen as safety schools. If they "waste" interview slots on people who can "do better", then come May 15, they will have no one in the class. So, I suspect that some schools screen out those who seem to be "slumming". Also, sometimes, those applicants seem to give off a "I'm better than these students" vibe when they interivew and that can lead to a denial of admission.

    I'd say that 80% of the schools to which you apply should be within 2 points of your "magic number", 10-20% should be more than 2 points below your number (your safeties) and 10-20% may be more than 2 points above your number (your reaches).
     
  25. silverlining1

    silverlining1 7+ Year Member

    1,861
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    Oct 9, 2006
    California
    MDApps:
    Thanks so much for doing this!
     
  26. Karina 07

    Karina 07 Banned Banned 5+ Year Member

    319
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    May 1, 2006
    Agreed -- numbers aren't everything, but they're not nothing, either.

    It's a good place to start.

    And thank you, people who posted the MSAR/USNews stuff. Very helpful!

    Looking at the numbers, I'll add to those who vote for using USNews. My boyf this past year got interviews at: OSU, BU, Cincinnati, Downstate, Drexel, Temple, MUSC, and U South Carolina, with a "magic number" of 65.4 (and a sadly very late application). That makes a lot more sense when you use the USNews numbers.
     
  27. DrMccodell

    DrMccodell 5+ Year Member

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    May 9, 2007
    Who came up with these magic numbers and how much emphasis should I place on them when choosing med schools to apply to?
     
  28. cleansocks

    cleansocks Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    The MSAR magic numbers coincide better with my application process results than the US News ones. Had 71.3, got into Tufts (very close to my number), rejected from all schools with numbers well above my own, interviewed at a couple slightly below my number (brown, ucla). Going by the USNews numbers, I would've expected to interview at many more "top teer" schools.
     
  29. go lakers

    go lakers Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    694
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    Apr 5, 2006
    CA

    are these based on the most recent data? 2008-2009? thanks
     
  30. AnesthesiaMD

    AnesthesiaMD 2+ Year Member

    479
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    Jan 4, 2007
    That was data from the 2005 entering class. There might be a new USNWR out now but i'm not sure.
     
  31. munnabhai

    munnabhai Junior Member 2+ Year Member

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    Jul 27, 2006
    How much should I subtract for a really bad personal statement and nonexistant ECs? :laugh:
     
  32. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Mar 7, 2005
    30 :smuggrin:
     
  33. soulspokn

    soulspokn 2+ Year Member

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    May 9, 2007
    wow. you make an awesome point.
     
  34. SketchLazy

    SketchLazy 5+ Year Member

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    May 16, 2007

    Is that really true? Wouldn't it really be more accurate to compare yourself to all the accepted applicants rather than just the matriculants? Matriculation is a decision that you make (once your accepted of course) and acceptance is a decision that medical schools make. When you apply to medical school your competing against all applicants not just the matriculants. So aren't acceptance averages really what people are looking for or am I just completely wrong? I mean that's what I would be gunning for, to fall within the stats of people accepted.

    If you wanted to know if you truly 'fit in' at the school in terms of GPA and MCAT, wouldn't that be the scenario in which you use averages of matriculants instead of accepted applicants?
     
  35. nick_carraway

    nick_carraway 10+ Year Member

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    Mar 7, 2007
    How accurate are the USN numbers for matriculants, anyway? Where do they get the info?

    I'd be interested to hear what LizzyM thinks of the book. Advisers at my school distrust it and most administrators at universities loath reporting data.
     
  36. SketchLazy

    SketchLazy 5+ Year Member

    776
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    May 16, 2007
    I made a list out of sheer boredom because I am unemployed and out of school. The list is based on Exi's post of the MSAR for 2008-2009. There's a lot of the schools so props to Exi. The list is in Excel format. You put in your MCAT and overall GPA. It calculates your LizzyM score. And then compares it to each school's magic number on the list. Based on LizzyM's criteria for 'safety', 'sure to apply', and 'reach' schools in this thread it will show where you fall using the color coded terror alert level. Hopefully it's not copyright infringement if your using public data and listing only portions of it.

    Here's the file:
    View attachment LizzyM-MSAR 2008-2009.xls
     
  37. nick_carraway

    nick_carraway 10+ Year Member

    3,558
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    Mar 7, 2007
    Brilliant! Thanks for making this. There was a website that was similar but I put more stock in this document since this uses newer numbers.

    It's fun to mess with, at the very least. More green than I expected... it's always good to know that I'm not hopeless.
     
  38. 1John4:8

    1John4:8 living for a purpose 5+ Year Member

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    Feb 21, 2006
    Great Job! With my GPA (3.2) at least I have a couple green... *weak laugh*

    It doesn't have all the states, are you missing data? I only have the 07-08 MSAR... dunno if that would help.
     
  39. SketchLazy

    SketchLazy 5+ Year Member

    776
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    May 16, 2007

    Thanks...I only have that info. It looks like people only want info from 08-09 though since things are getting more and more competitive every year. Maybe if I can find one at my local community college or if the mods let exi post all the rest of the schools, I'll finish it. Times are tough for us pre-meds nowadays. Well, not like it was ever easy, but some of these averages scare the crap out of me.
     
  40. JDH1605

    JDH1605 Hopeful doc

    9
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    Apr 9, 2007
    Alabama
    This website does some of the same stuff that the "magic number" does...

    http://www.studentdoc.com/medfind.html

    It also incorporates state of residence. The numbers are kind of arbitrary, but it's a good tool.
     
  41. stillwondering

    stillwondering

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    :love:

    thanks for this. i wish i didn't live in ca though
     
  42. Jacks Mannequin

    Jacks Mannequin if you're into it 2+ Year Member

    669
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    May 9, 2006
    Haha, wow, thanks for the file. I think it gave me a false sense of confidence. :laugh:
     
  43. Critical Mass

    Critical Mass Guest

    1,713
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    Feb 23, 2007
    This list is cute and represents a lot of hard work. Unfortunately it fails to factor in the single most important quality in an application which is state of residence. I would go so far as to say that 90% of the in-staters in my class (which is most of the class) didn't get any allo offers oos, and there is only one med school in my state.
     
  44. jochi1543

    jochi1543 President, Gunner Central 2+ Year Member

    5,454
    11
    Apr 4, 2007
    Alberta, Canada
    MDApps:
    Hmmm, I don't know, GWU is a "safety" school for me? If it were "go for it," it'd be ok, but SAFETY?:laugh:

    My only gripe with that file is that it doesn't consider state residency - which would slaughter lots of the "safeties." I did see a website which did the same thing, but also considered OOS status when assigning reach/go for it/safety status. What's the point of Mercer having superlow statistics if they don't take international applicants (and I think, no OOS either)?
     
  45. jochi1543

    jochi1543 President, Gunner Central 2+ Year Member

    5,454
    11
    Apr 4, 2007
    Alberta, Canada
    MDApps:
    Ah, should've read before I posted.:laugh:
     
  46. linuxizer

    linuxizer MS0 10+ Year Member

    275
    0
    Jul 31, 2003
    MDApps:
    Here are magic numbers from the latest USNWR (2006 entering class). These are 3*MCAT (since they show the average of the three sections) + 10*GPA :

    Washington University in St. Louis 75
    Columbia U. College of Physicians and Surgeons (NY) 73.5
    Johns Hopkins University (MD) 73.3
    Harvard University (MA) 73.2
    University of Pennsylvania 72.2
    Baylor College of Medicine (TX) 71.9
    Yale University (CT) 71.7
    University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 71.5
    Vanderbilt University (TN) 71.5
    Cornell University (Weill) (NY) 71.4
    University of Chicago (Pritzker) 71.4
    Stanford University (CA) 71.3
    Mayo Medical School (MN) 70.9
    University of California–Los Angeles (Geffen) 70.9
    University of California–San Diego 70.9
    University of California–San Francisco 70.8
    University of Pittsburgh 70.7
    Duke University (NC) 70.7
    Northwestern University (Feinberg) (IL) 70.7
    New York University 70.4
    U. of Texas Southwestern Medical Center–Dallas 70.4
    University of Virginia 70.3
    Brown University (RI) 70.1
    Case Western Reserve University (OH) 69.9
    Emory University (GA) 69.9
    Mount Sinai School of Medicine (NY) 69.8
    University of Colorado–Denver and Health Sciences Center 69.7
    Ohio State University 69.6
    University of Florida 69.5
    Dartmouth Medical School (NH) 69.1
    University of California–Irvine 69.1
    University of Wisconsin–Madison 68.6
    University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill 68.5
    University of Rochester (NY) 68.4
    University of Southern California (Keck) 68.4
    University of Iowa (Carver) 68.2
    Yeshiva University (Einstein) (NY) 68.2
    Stony Brook University (NY) 68.1
    St. Louis University 68
    University of Miami (Miller) (FL) 67.9
    University of Washington 67.6
    University of Alabama–Birmingham 67.6
    University of Cincinnati 67.6
    Indiana University–Indianapolis 67.6
    Tufts University (MA) 67.6
    Georgetown University (DC) 67.4
    University of Connecticut 67.4
    Oregon Health and Science University 67.2
    University of Maryland 67.2
    University of Massachusetts–Worcester 67
    UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School 67
    Boston University 66.9
    University of California–Davis 66.9
    University of Minnesota Medical School 66.7
    Medical College of Wisconsin 66.6
    Jefferson Medical College (PA) 66.6
    Wake Forest University (NC) 66.5
    University of Texas Medical Branch–Galveston 66.4
    University of Vermont 65.7
    University of Illinois–Chicago 65.7
    Tulane University (LA) 65.6
    University of Utah 65.6
    Medical University of South Carolina 64.9
    Univ. of Texas Health Science Center–Houston 64.9
     
  47. SketchLazy

    SketchLazy 5+ Year Member

    776
    2
    May 16, 2007
    Yeah I noticed that with people with high numbers, this indicator just gets crazy. At a certain point, every school becomes a 'safety'. I edited my list to include most of the osteopathic schools also and they all turned blue. It's absurd to think that any of them would be safeties. Like LizzyM said, average GPA and MCAT are just a starting point in your consideration to apply. The terror alert level is just for fun, but is based on what she has said throughout some posts concerning the number. Use it for laughs...or if you see a lot of red, to dash your dreams of ever becoming a doctor.
     
  48. SAspursfan

    SAspursfan 2+ Year Member

    31
    0
    Oct 23, 2006
    I know this thread is pretty old, but I just realized those numbers seem pretty high... for instance according to this link: http://www.free-consumer-info.com/medical_school.htm?gclid=CKyTzZL3towCFQVpFQod-mB2Rw, UM and UF's "magic numbers" were previously 64.2 and 64.9, respectively. You have them listed as 67.9 and 69.5, a jump of 3.7 for UM and 4.6 for UF. Has it really gotten that much more competitive?

     
  49. uhohspaghettio

    uhohspaghettio Banned Banned

    288
    0
    May 11, 2007
    does PS and EC mean that much? :confused:
     
  50. TheRealMD

    TheRealMD "The Mac Guy" 5+ Year Member

    4,773
    5
    May 23, 2007
    Houston, Texas
    MDApps:
    If it's "decent", no. But if it's bad...

    For example, let's say someone had the amazing 4.0/40 we all covet but in his PS, he bashes doctors like no other, and does absolutely no ECs because he claims school is "taking up his time". On the LizzyM scale, that's where it's worth 30 (-30, actually). I don't know what it'd be on a positive scale, but your PS would have to stand out from everyone else's (and ECs don't really count, because I'm sure they've had some people with amazing ECs better than yours).
     
  51. linuxizer

    linuxizer MS0 10+ Year Member

    275
    0
    Jul 31, 2003
    MDApps:
    All I know is what USNWR tells me....

    Ari
     

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