The MCAT is important...but is NOT everything

[libertyyne]

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Think of the LizzyM score as the number of raffle tickets you have to an elaborate prize. The more tickets you have the more likely you are to walk away with a prize. After a certain threshold you are almost certain to win a prize. This doesnt mean you wont win a prize with less than optimal number of tickets, its just unlikely that you will.

 

[Goro]

Got an MD acceptance with a 504 and a sGPA under 3.0. Yet something about my app made the committee think I could be successful at this; I’m guessing it was the ECs and personal statement because it certainly was not my stats. MCAT is not everything.

👍👍👍😍😍😍

 

[Nav2020]

Indeed. For some, it's all about getting into med school, and NOT about being a doctor.

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[Nav2020]

MCAT/GPA are the most important things in your application. For some reason weaker applicants like to buy into the fallacy that they can make up for bad numbers with a bunch of subjective assessments (LORs, ECs, etc). This does not seem to be the way it works. If an applicants numbers are low enough, there is no amount of "well-roundedness" that is going to make up for that.

Well said, Im sure Med school wont review application if mcat/gpa low.

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[Goro]

Well said, Im sure Med school wont review application if mcat/gpa low.

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It depends. A low GPA might have within it reinvention by a massive upward GPA trend. A low MCAT (to a degree) might be salvaged by a very compelling app...so much so that Adcoms will want to take a risk on someone.

 

[MarineMDHopeful]

It isn't everything. I got into a top 20 with a 509 mildly unbalanced MCAT...granted I only had a few weeks to study for my MCAT due to being deployed but I did NOT mention this at any interview because I didn't want to seem like I had excuses. My MCAT was my MCAT and I walked in confident shook their hand, looked them in the eye and sold myself.

 

[Dagrimsta1]

I am willing to bet that if you truly got an average MCAT score you only gained admission into an osteopathic or offshore school. Regardless of your GPA, applicants with average MCAT scores are facing a roughly 20% chance of acceptance into any MD school.

Lmao you probably still in undergrad so shhh.

MCAT isn’t everything, just like the boards aren’t everything. They are just exams, a means to an end with the end being good doctors. Little hint, The interviews exist for reason. It’s a test to find people, not exam machines. While boards do certainly Weigh more and are high risk, at the end of the day it’s exam.
Little fun fact; after boards, residency directors look for LOR, not grades. Grades actually matter very little in Med school...
MCAT: 507 GPA: 3.5

 

[21Rush12]

Lmao you probably still in undergrad so shhh.

MCAT isn’t everything, just like the boards aren’t everything. They are just exams, a means to an end with the end being good doctors. Little hint, The interviews exist for reason. It’s a test to find people, not exam machines. While boards do certainly Weigh more and are high risk, at the end of the day it’s exam.
Little fun fact; after boards, residency directors look for LOR, not grades. Grades actually matter very little in Med school...
MCAT: 507 GPA: 3.5

You’ll have to excuse him...he’s been bitterly S* posting all over the forums because he didn’t get in with 4 bad MCAT scores and a mediocre GPA. Apparently that means nobody can, it is in no way a reflection of his own abilities and interpersonal skills.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

You’ll have to excuse him...he’s been bitterly S* posting all over the forums because he didn’t get in with 4 bad MCAT scores and a mediocre GPA. Apparently that means nobody can, it is in no way a reflection of his own abilities and interpersonal skills.

Well since my "mediocre" GPA is much higher than yours was, I wonder what adjective you would use to describe your portfolio.

"Bitter"......perhaps.......but I have good reason to be. And since most of this forum seems to be mainly composed of starry-eyed wannabes who are so far removed from reality, perhaps my perspective is exactly what this forum needs for a change.

But anyway, congrats on being in medical school. It warms my heart to realize that people like me have been stepped over to let less qualified candidates like you in😉

And it would be nice if you would stop dragging in my stats from other posts into completely unrelated threads.

 

[mwsapphire]

Well since my "mediocre" GPA is much higher than yours was, I wonder what adjective you would use to describe your portfolio.

"Bitter"......perhaps.......but I have good reason to be. And since most of this forum seems to be mainly composed of starry-eyed wannabes who are so far removed from reality, perhaps my perspective is exactly what this forum needs for a change.

But anyway, congrats on being in medical school. It warms my heart to realize that people like me have been stepped over to let less qualified candidates like you in😉

And it would be nice if you would stop dragging in my stats from other posts into completely unrelated threads.

Would you rather....we be....dead eyed...not...wannabes?
And how could you say we're starry eyed?
Do you not know about the cynicism on this forum? This whole thread is about how SDN'ers think you're not competitive without a 515+ MCAT and 3.6+ GPA and hundreds of hours of clinical exposure and research and shadowing so that's pretty much the opposite of starry-eyed if you ask me....

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Would you rather....we be....dead eyed...not...wannabes?
And how could you say we're starry eyed?
Do you not know about the cynicism on this forum? This whole thread is about how SDN'ers think you're not competitive without a 515+ MCAT and 3.6+ GPA and hundreds of hours of clinical exposure and research and shadowing so that's pretty much the opposite of starry-eyed if you ask me....

Maybe not everyone, but a lot are somewhat unrealistic and come here just looking to get people to tell them what they want.

 

[Deleted member 750603]

Maybe not everyone, but a lot are somewhat unrealistic and come here just looking to get people to tell them what they want.

Reading over your previous comments. Your opinions seem to be very polarizing. Sort of black and white. I would soften up a bit on the matter of fact opinions.

It comes off as aggressive and a lot of times plain simply wrong.

If you interview it will show and it won’t be attractive.

We all come in different shades of colors and stats and it’s not as black and white as you make it out to be in your mind.

 

[21Rush12]

@The Dragon Slayer

I include the reference to your other posts to give some context to your comments. You write as though you are an authority on this subject and you are not. Future readers would benefit from this perspective.

I would (and consistently do) describe my undergrad performance as underwhelming. It began as absolutely horrid and finished strongly, but overall it was weak. Below average at every US MD school.

However, had I followed the advice you dole out regularly, I would not be an above average medical student finishing second year.

My point has been that the discouragement and negativity toward anyone who has anything below average on their application is not helpful, productive, or in any way concordant with reality.

There is a big difference between being slightly below average and being unrealistically positioned for success. Many factors are at play, and interpersonal skills are one key that is often missing.

 

[Goro]

Maybe not everyone, but a lot are somewhat unrealistic and come here just looking to get people to tell them what they want.

That phenotype is actually rare on SDN.

 

[chemdoctor]

It isn't everything. I got into a top 20 with a 509 mildly unbalanced MCAT...granted I only had a few weeks to study for my MCAT due to being deployed but I did NOT mention this at any interview because I didn't want to seem like I had excuses. My MCAT was my MCAT and I walked in confident shook their hand, looked them in the eye and sold myself.

idk why, but your post just gave me some confidence for some reason...

 

[chemdoctor]

Well since my "mediocre" GPA is much higher than yours was, I wonder what adjective you would use to describe your portfolio.

"Bitter"......perhaps.......but I have good reason to be. And since most of this forum seems to be mainly composed of starry-eyed wannabes who are so far removed from reality, perhaps my perspective is exactly what this forum needs for a change.

But anyway, congrats on being in medical school. It warms my heart to realize that people like me have been stepped over to let less qualified candidates like you in😉

And it would be nice if you would stop dragging in my stats from other posts into completely unrelated threads.

So.. you having a higher GPA makes him less qualified? LOL thats not the case at all. Being a compassionate PERSON is what being a doctor is about. That's kinda what this thread is about i the sense that mcat and gpa are not the only thing @21Rush12 killed the MCAT...

Honestly, I will say that your stats are probably not what kept you out of medical school...

 

[chemdoctor]

It isn't everything. I got into a top 20 with a 509 mildly unbalanced MCAT...granted I only had a few weeks to study for my MCAT due to being deployed but I did NOT mention this at any interview because I didn't want to seem like I had excuses. My MCAT was my MCAT and I walked in confident shook their hand, looked them in the eye and sold myself.

Also a 509 is a great score. Imagine what you could've done with sufficient study time!!

 

[MarineMDHopeful]

Also a 509 is a great score. Imagine what you could've done with sufficient study time!!

Haha, the thought had crossed my mind. But I think where most people shoot themselves in the foot is they view the MCAT as make it or break it for their app...when what it really is is either an addition or subtraction. Just one piece of the puzzle.

 

[chemdoctor]

Haha, the thought had crossed my mind. But I think where most people shoot themselves in the foot is they view the MCAT as make it or break it for their app...when what it really is is either an addition or subtraction. Just one piece of the puzzle.

Very true. That is what this thread is about xD

 

[libertyyne]

I think it's a little unfair to compare the success of veterans with the average run of the mill applicants. These schools don't have MCAT medians of 518 with a 10th percentile at 512 by accepting many people outside of those stats. By defintion.

 

[MarineMDHopeful]

I think it's a little unfair to compare the success of veterans with the average run of the mill applicants. These schools don't have MCAT medians of 518 with a 10th percentile at 512 by accepting many people outside of those stats. By defintion.

I simultaneously agree and disagree. While I would be lying if I said my veteran status didn't help me I would also say it is just another piece of my puzzle. I think being a vet is another facet of background and doesn't specifically make or break an application.

 

[libertyyne]

I simultaneously agree and disagree. While I would be lying if I said my veteran status didn't help me I would also say it is just another piece of my puzzle. I think being a vet is another facet of background and doesn't specifically make or break an application.

You are exceptional just because of the fact you are a veteran. All I am saying is that if an average applicant with those numbers applies to t20s the odds of an acceptance are very very low. There are not many veterans applying to medical school. 5 point LizzyM boost is what is thrown around on the board. Edge cases do not necessarily disprove the rule. Congrats nonetheless as it is quite the achievement.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

However, as I’m sure adcoms here can attest to, someone with okay-not-great numbers with a compelling story, background, or experience can easily be accepted and succeed.

Very true. There's a reason why people get accepted even though their stats are below the 10th percentile of school medians.

Usually, the devil is in the details. Often those admits are not traditional applicants. Maybe they’re people who started college without direction and maturity, racked up a bunch of low grades, then left college and went onto something else: military, private sector job, etc. Then they realized their passion for medicine and went back to college, aced their classes, and applied to med school with cum GPAs that are still low because all those old grades are still in the mix.

These admits aren’t likely traditional applicants with whining stories....

 

[treatem-and-streetem]

I hope you guys don’t practice like you post here on SDN.

Please add that as a sig.
That was just perfect snark delivered over the electrons....

Made it a sig purely because you had the grand idea my friend.

 

[Deecee2DO]

With an otherwise very good application, my MCAT was under 500 and I was accepted to medical school (previous non-MD/DO healthcare professional, high GPA, lots of ECs, good story). It CAN be done, but with a poor MCAT the rest of your app needs to be outstanding. I would not suggest applying to medical school with under a 500 MCAT unless you are applying broadly to the newer DO schools and only DO schools, but DEFINITELY nothing below a 497-498 or 43rd percentile no matter what the rest of your app looks like, because the adcoms will exercise the thought of accepting you as a student only to have you run the risk of failing boards. Seriously, if you have below a 500 MCAT, just re-take the MCAT, since the newer DO schools are not very established and may set you up for a difficult time with clinical rotations and residency placement. Study the MCAT for another 3 months and raise your score to at least a 500? Or raise the risk of future issues in medical school and residency down the line with ~$200K in debt. I would go with the former

 

[lovehate]

Everyone who say I got in with x mcat or didn't get in with whatever GPA, it is all anecdotal.
The adcom base their decision on so many factors and no one can deny that the MCAT is one of the main ones. Given you have fulfilled all the other requirements a higher MCAT usually means higher chance for an interview.

 

[coramDeo]

I don't think this statement is limited to the MCAT aspect of the application... Not one single component is everything, but some components are clearly more important than others and I think one just needs to understand how the weighting is distributed (roughly anyways).

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Got an MD acceptance with a 504 and a sGPA under 3.0.

Yet something about my app made the committee think I could be successful at this; I’m guessing it was the ECs and personal statement because it certainly was not my stats. MCAT is not everything.

Can you tell us more? Seems like more would be needed to get past the usual filters. Are you a nonTrad? Are you a URM? Did you have unusual ECs or research? What was your cum GPA? Did you have a strong upward trend (lousy grades at first)

 

[Drez06]

Can you tell us more? Seems like more would be needed to get past the usual filters. Are you a nonTrad? Are you a URM? Did you have unusual ECs or research? What was your cum GPA? Did you have a strong upward trend (lousy grades at first)

Sure thing! I was a non traditional student with 15 years of work experience, including caregiver work in end of life dementia care and clinical program management for those involuntarily committed in my state as violent and severely mentally ill sex offenders. Strong upward grade trend at the end of undergrad and beyond, did a graduate certificate of science courses 5-6 years after undergrad, with a 3.97 (compared to my 2.9 sGPA in undergrad). Also have a long and boring history of poverty, homelessness, severe child abuse throughout my childhood, first generation college student, worked two jobs since I was 15 to pay family bills and put myself through college, etc... And my interests and where I want to practice fit perfectly with the school’s mission. I think there were a lot of contributing factors.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Sure thing! I was a non traditional student with 15 years of work experience, including caregiver work in end of life dementia care and clinical program management for those involuntarily committed in my state as violent and severely mentally ill sex offenders. Strong upward grade trend at the end of undergrad and beyond, did a graduate certificate of science courses 5-6 years after undergrad, with a 3.97 (compared to my 2.9 sGPA in undergrad). Also have a long and boring history of poverty, homelessness, severe child abuse throughout my childhood, first generation college student, worked two jobs since I was 15 to pay family bills and put myself through college, etc... And my interests and where I want to practice fit perfectly with the school’s mission. I think there were a lot of contributing factors.

Thank you for the update and best wishes.

 

[BombsAway]

Can confirm. Received scandalous 124's in the sciences and still crushed the cycle. One of my A's has a median mcat 14 points higher than my own. You never know.

 

[MarineMDHopeful]

Can confirm. Received scandalous 124's in the sciences and still crushed the cycle. One of my A's has a median mcat 14 points higher than my own. You never know.

Agreed, I got II's from all 10 schools I applied to and got accepted to each of the 4 interviews I attended (I turned many down to an early acceptance in the cycle to save money). It 100% is your whole app × your backstory + personality and interview. I can GUARANTEE you I am nowhere near as smart as some of the people I got accepted to Mayo with but I am genuine and passionate with an underdog story.