the most of the most competitive

[ribcrackindoc]

Everyone talks about how tuff it is to get into Ortho, Neurosurgery, ENT, Optho, and Urology but of these 5 surgical subspecialties, how do you think they rank in competitiveness relative to one another?
I say
1) ortho
2) neuro
3) ENT
4) optho
5) urology
what do you think?
Disclaimer: I'm sure someone will get all pissed off about this, so don't bother writing that I should study harder, spend my time thinking about more important things, go into whatever interests me despite the competitiveness, bend over and take in in the ars, I already know. Layda my friends

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[maxheadroom]

Hard to compare. Looking just at board scores, AOA status, grades, and research really wouldn't translate across the fields.

Ortho loves to get Division 1 athletes. If you played football in a BCS game, you're golden.

Oops, there's the pager . . .

 

[Crusher]

It's obviously irrelevant but my list goes...

1) (Tie) Derm (I know its not surgery)
Integrated plastics
2) ENT
3) Ortho
4) Neuro
5) Optho
6) Uro

 

[Idiopathic]

What is the draw to uro...the lifestyle or all the penises?

 

[Spang]

I did a summer elective in urology (I'm a 2nd year) and I'd say the attraction is the combo of medicine and surgery in the practice along with relatively easy procedures (vs. say a CABG or laminectomy) and the job security. Every man at one time or another is going to see a urologist, if he lives long enough, and then usually repeatedly.

As for the penises; I'd guess it's more for the scrotums. Much more variety there...long ones, short ones, kids who climb on rocks....

Spang

 

[DuneHog]

It varies from year to year. All of those listed above (optho, ENT, neurosurg, derm, plastics and ortho) have probably been the most competative in any given year. For last year I would guess it was something like this:

1) Uro
2) ENT
3) Plastics
4) Ortho
5) Neuro
6) Optho

Derm is also very competative, probably as competative as any on the above list, but it is definately not surgical subspecialty. In my opinion optho really isn't either b/c they don't even do a surgical internship.

 

[samsoccer7]

What about plastics? It seems that's one of the hardest to get. Whatdya think?

Also, what is plastics really like? On TV you'd think it was boob jobs and face lifts, but what else do most doctors do?

 

[maxheadroom]

I'd disagree with DuneHog's listing. From what my friends who matched Uro and ENT said, I thought that about 80% of US seniors matched in those fields. For integrated/combined PRS it's somewhere around 30% (last year ~75 positions with ~250 applicants).

What PRS does:
Aesthetic surgery (boob, noses, facelifts, liposuction)
Hand surgery (replants, nerve decompression, trauma, congenital defects)
Craniofacial (cleft lip/palate repair, mid-face deformities, craniosynostosis)
Reconstructive (post-mastectomy breast recon, burn care, free tissue transfer for just about anything, local flaps for just about anything, facial trauma recon, sometimes do facial recon after ENT does big cancer surgeries -- depending upon whether or not they do their own free tissue/local flaps at that particular hospital -- I've seen both)

Great thing about plastics is the wide range of problems and the wide range of solutions.

Also note that there are probably another 80 positions available in the "Independent" track (vis a vis droliver) that are open to people who have done one of the following:
-finished at least 3 years of general surgery training
-completed residency in ortho, ENT, uro, neurosurg

 

[Fah-Q]

My list would go:
1. Integrated plastics
2. ENT
3. Urology
4. Ortho
5. Neurosurg
6. Ophtho

 

[womansurg]

Originally posted by DuneHog
For last year I would guess it was something like this:

1) Uro

Hehe...I'm remembering my Uro rotation in med school. We crouched on the floor and held a basin while an old guy urinated in it, so that we could check the force of his stream. Afterward the urologist looked at me kind of embarrassed, grinned and said, "this is pretty much your day as a urologist. Standing with your face in some old guy's crotch while he pees."

Nothing is ever as glamorous as it seems, I guess .

 

[samsoccer7]

I don't think I could do Uro b/c the bladder and urethra just don't excite me. What do you guys think?

 

[ent_doc]

Originally posted by samsoccer7
I don't think I could do Uro b/c the bladder and urethra just don't excite me. What do you guys think?

Gotta decide what you can handle. Rectal exams, penises in uro; in ENT, you have to be able to handle snot. Some can't.

 

[Habeed]

What about trauma? I know you roll your eyes when you hear idealists such as myself asking this, but it seems like trauma would be one of the most rewarding. Obviously, there's the excitement. Also, patients put back together often tend to be fairly young and as such likely to mostly recover. From death's door to decent health with a theoretical (obviously, the people most likely to experience severe trauma tend to continue to engage in risky behavoir) long life expectancy. Isn't that what a doctor is for?

So it ISN'T that competitive for a surgeon to get a trauma fellowship?

 

[ent_doc]

Originally posted by Habeed
What about trauma? I know you roll your eyes when you hear idealists such as myself asking this, but it seems like trauma would be one of the most rewarding. Obviously, there's the excitement. Also, patients put back together often tend to be fairly young and as such likely to mostly recover. From death's door to decent health with a theoretical (obviously, the people most likely to experience severe trauma tend to continue to engage in risky behavoir) long life expectancy. Isn't that what a doctor is for?

So it ISN'T that competitive for a surgeon to get a trauma fellowship?

1 year of general surgery internship is enough to convince anyone that they don't want to do trauma surgery for the rest of their life.

My internship record: 26 level 1 traumas in a 24 hour period "Running the alphabet" since each trauma patient's trauma first name was "Alpha" or "Beta" etc...

Ah, the days of wanting to throw the trauma pager off of the 6th floor...

 

[neo]

i used to think trauma would be great too.

and yes its true that many of your patients are young and recover well.

but trauma surgery is a huge social services specialty. trauma is not a random disease, people who are involved in trauma are usually (not always but usually) asking for it.

examples.

1. guy who gets drunk and rides around at 50mph on his atv in the dead of night and rams a fence.

2. kids high on cocaine who get shot which buying drugs

3. guys who get into bar fights

4. gang warfare

5. drunk drivers

6. drunk drivers

7. drunk drivers

8. drunk drivers

9. drunk drivers

10. drunk drivers


most of these people have crap home situations and after they get better in the hospital, you have no place to send them to. it blows as the intern, trust me.

 

[huktonfonix]

Amen to that, it sucks to take care of them not only from a social services standpoint, but also because some of them just piss me off. We often have to take care of these losers and the people that they run into with a car/fought with, etc.. most of which were innocent bystyanders. If they want to do these ******* things thats natural selection, but they shouldn't take others with them. Oh well, I guess we're obliged to take care of them anyway and especially in trauma. Sucks though.


"I'm not operating on his potassium level, get my patient down here!" - Anonymous

 

[twaspatz]

Originally posted by huktonfonix
Amen to that, it sucks to take care of them not only from a social services standpoint, but also because some of them just piss me off. We often have to take care of these losers and the people that they run into with a car/fought with, etc.. most of which were innocent bystyanders. If they want to do these ******* things thats natural selection, but they shouldn't take others with them. Oh well, I guess we're obliged to take care of them anyway and especially in trauma. Sucks though.

WOW! Is this what you said in your medical school interview instead of "I want to help people"???

 

[huktonfonix]

Sure I want to help people, but some ******* high on ice, or drunk off his ass whose got a police record as long as my arm plowing his car into a car full of kids, shooting 3 people, etc.. is not the type of person I wanted to take care of. Some of these barely qualify as people because of their blatant disregard for human life. I may be obligated to treat them, but I sure as hell don't have to like it.

 

[ent_doc]

Originally posted by twaspatz
WOW! Is this what you said in your medical school interview instead of "I want to help people"???

I didn't say it in my medical school interview but I sure thought it during my internship.