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[yadave]

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Hello everyone,
I would like some advice on my current situation….
Grad from CC…on to UCF-Bio- Placed on Academic probation for two semesters then disqualified with one semester remaining. I applied to another school because I didn’t want to wait one year to reapply to UCF. Was accepted to Nova –Bachelors of Health Science (30credits) I currently have one more semester and I will finally have my undergrad degree. I have been doing great so far….all A’s…and I am going to add Biochem in the mix next semester.
*The main pre-reqs were completed before I was disqualified with A's/B's
UCF:
Overall: 2.6
sGPA: 2.5ish >_______<~~~
I already took the MCAT-35P
So, I am wondering what I should do from this point…be it Post Bacc or SMP? After Nova I know my overall gpa will be a smidge better…but the science will still be mehh.
Graduation is set for Dec, so in the spring I was thinking of taking some science courses. Would Non-degree status work? Or would Post-bacc be a better choice? Should I even consider an SMP?

Thanks for any help.

Well considering the person I got advice from is being attacked at the moment on this forum (which I disagree with by the way), I don;t know if you want that advice or what. As Dr Midlife would say, stick it out and get your gpa around a 3.0 and then apply broadly. I mean you have a really good MCAT so if there are certain programs you really like then I would say apply anyways and see what happens. If you dont get in, get your gpa up even more (take classes while you're in the application process as well) and re-apply. Keep your chin up I am in a very similar situation as you and have talked to many people that have a big input in the admission process and no one has ever straight up discouraged me from following this dream. It is possible and people are doing it left and right now days. Keep going! you're getting there!

good luck to you

 

[yadave]

You are pretty arrogant. There are a lot of people who have done well in the postbac around 30-50 credits and got into medical school with a decent MCAT and a lot less debt. I know you must have done a SMP to get in, but lets not get too carried away here. There are a lot of possibilities and you are picking and choosing the things you like to hear. Being URM is not an instant in, there are other reasons that explain the whole picture. I hope as a doctor, you won't be as biased as you are now and act with professionalism.

you know I cant agree with you dissing Dr Midlife BUT i am really happy you're posting this info because it is really a breath of fresh air from the constant pessimism and egoism that can be seen on this forum. I really dont think getting into medical school should be put on such a high pedestal. Yes if you messed up it is gonna be a long journey to get your gpa up, score well on your mcat but by no means does this mean there is only one path to get accepted or only one path of hope. Everyone's app is different and unique. Initially I used to take the advice on this forum and primarily depend on it to guide me and I would be lying if I said it didnt. It really did and Dr Midlife especially has pointed me in the right direction many times here. However, I have also gone out of my way to talk to dean of admissions, professors on the committee, medical students, etc and gathered my own information. There is a lot of hope for people who are trying to find their way out of bad GPAs and poor MCAT scores. Its all about how bad you want it. You can stay in school for 3 more years scoring a 3.0-3.5 gpa in your science classes or you can get a 3.8-4.0 for a year and a half and achieve the same thing. what do you want? I used to be a below 2.0 student and when I put my mind to it I was getting and am still getting 4.0s in all upper level science classes and taking 18 credits a quarter AND working full time as a research assistant. Its all about your drive. So yea, I agree, its not impossible. But the advice on this forum is not completely futile either. Keep your eyes and ears open at all times and you will eventually get to where you want. Thanks for the refreshing advice though, we all appreciate it.👍

 

[drizzt3117]

You are pretty arrogant. There are a lot of people who have done well in the postbac around 30-50 credits and got into medical school with a decent MCAT and a lot less debt. I know you must have done a SMP to get in, but lets not get too carried away here. There are a lot of possibilities and you are picking and choosing the things you like to hear. Being URM is not an instant in, there are other reasons that explain the whole picture. I hope as a doctor, you won't be as biased as you are now and act with professionalism.

Actually I didn't do a SMP to get in. I'm technically a non-trad but I fit more closely with traditional track students in terms of priorities and stats. I did a top-tier formal postbac.

Being a URM isn't a certain in by any means but most students in med school with that stat profile are URM. I have access to admissions data not available to the public so I can say that with certainty. However, this isn't any sort of implicit judgment about it. I fully support more diversity in medicine.

A quick review of my post history would show that I'm not even a proponent of SMPs at all. Facts are facts, the percentages are the percentages. You can deny them if you want but ignorance won't get you into med school.

 

[Moebius]

Actually I didn't do a SMP to get in. I'm technically a non-trad but I fit more closely with traditional track students in terms of priorities and stats. I did a top-tier formal postbac.

Being a URM isn't a certain in by any means but most students in med school with that stat profile are URM. I have access to admissions data not available to the public so I can say that with certainty. However, this isn't any sort of implicit judgment about it. I fully support more diversity in medicine.

A quick review of my post history would show that I'm not even a proponent of SMPs at all. Facts are facts, the percentages are the percentages. You can deny them if you want but ignorance won't get you into med school.

Well, good luck to you. I am not going to keep on debating this topic. The individuals themselves will have to decide in what situation they want to apply. I don't believe what you are saying is correct as it fails to underline the entire process for many medical schools and out right ignores facts that contradict your view, but it will be up to other people's own due diligence to make the decision for themselves. However, I wanted to show that Dr. Midwife's criteria are not as absolute as you or she likes to believe. If you don't fall in line with a certain criteria, it doesn't mean you are doomed. However, I do agree that having at least a 3.1 is a good idea before attempting MD schools. There are obivious lot of exceptions to this rule. The ultimate purpose of the GPA is to show "if" you can handle the coursework. Obviously, like people, medical schools are different. Some are more cautious while others are more open. Either way, good luck. There are a lot of people who don't go on this website yet they managed to overcome their problems. It serves as an inspiration to everyone who matured a little late.

For the people reading this thread, don't let an anonymous posers decide your life. Do your own homework and analyze the results carefully. Don't get so easily swayed by others.

 

[Moebius]

you know I cant agree with you dissing Dr Midlife BUT i am really happy you're posting this info because it is really a breath of fresh air from the constant pessimism and egoism that can be seen on this forum. I really dont think getting into medical school should be put on such a high pedestal. Yes if you messed up it is gonna be a long journey to get your gpa up, score well on your mcat but by no means does this mean there is only one path to get accepted or only one path of hope. Everyone's app is different and unique. Initially I used to take the advice on this forum and primarily depend on it to guide me and I would be lying if I said it didnt. It really did and Dr Midlife especially has pointed me in the right direction many times here. However, I have also gone out of my way to talk to dean of admissions, professors on the committee, medical students, etc and gathered my own information. There is a lot of hope for people who are trying to find their way out of bad GPAs and poor MCAT scores. Its all about how bad you want it. You can stay in school for 3 more years scoring a 3.0-3.5 gpa in your science classes or you can get a 3.8-4.0 for a year and a half and achieve the same thing. what do you want? I used to be a below 2.0 student and when I put my mind to it I was getting and am still getting 4.0s in all upper level science classes and taking 18 credits a quarter AND working full time as a research assistant. Its all about your drive. So yea, I agree, its not impossible. But the advice on this forum is not completely futile either. Keep your eyes and ears open at all times and you will eventually get to where you want. Thanks for the refreshing advice though, we all appreciate it.👍

🙂

 

[drizzt3117]

I don't know if your purposely missing the point of my posts but I'll lay them out very clearly.

1) Applying to med school with below average stats means you'll have a lower than average chance of acceptance in the vast majority of cases. There are exceptions to this rule (urm/disadvantaged students) but it's generally true.

2) If you have below average stats, improving them with successful performance in a postbac or SMP will increase your chances of acceptance.

3) Applying to med school is a long, expensive, stressful, hard,and drawn out process. Even in a successful cycle, there is a lot of uncertainty and doubt. I'd rather study for and take step 1 again than apply to med school again and I got into > 50% of the schools I applied to. It's not something you want to do more than once, so applicants would be best served to maximize their chances of acceptance on their first application cycle.

Well, good luck to you. I am not going to keep on debating this topic. The individuals themselves will have to decide in what situation they want to apply. I don't believe what you are saying is correct as it fails to underline the entire process for many medical schools and out right ignores facts that contradict your view, but it will be up to other people's own due diligence to make the decision for themselves. However, I wanted to show that Dr. Midwife's criteria are not as absolute as you or she likes to believe. If you don't fall in line with a certain criteria, it doesn't mean you are doomed. However, I do agree that having at least a 3.1 is a good idea before attempting MD schools.

For the people reading this thread, don't let an anonymous posers decide your life. Do your own homework and analyze the results carefully. Don't get so easily swayed by others.

 

[Elephantwatcher]

Long time lurker, first time posting.

I graduated from college last year. I have a 3.301 cGPA, and a 3.136 sGPA. My major was Molecular Bio (from a top 25 university, if that matters). I'm currently taking upper division science classes at a local 4 year university as a post-bac; but the problem is I'm at the bottom of the registration pole, so it's really hard to register for these classes.

I have taken the MCAT twice; first time I received a 29R, so I retook. I got the scores back today - 32P.

What should I do at this point? I sent my primary app last week, and I'm expecting a lot of rejections. Should I start looking at SMPs? Do I have even a remote chance of getting into an allopathic school? I'm a CA resident, so I applied very broadly.

I also wanted to say that while lurking, I found the advice of posters like Gujudoc, drizzt3117, Dr. Midlife and Perrotfish invaluable. Hats off to you folks! 🙂

 

[drizzt3117]

33/32 is sort of borderline for MD schools. I think it's very possible that if you applied really broadly (50+ schools) that you'd get an acceptance, but raising your GPA a little bit would help matters. If you're dead set on MD, then a SMP would be the surest and most efficient course of action. I think you'd be a competitive candidate for COMP if you're at all interested in DO.

Long time lurker, first time posting.

I graduated from college last year. I have a 3.301 cGPA, and a 3.136 sGPA. My major was Molecular Bio (from a top 25 university, if that matters). I'm currently taking upper division science classes at a local 4 year university as a post-bac; but the problem is I'm at the bottom of the registration pole, so it's really hard to register for these classes.

I have taken the MCAT twice; first time I received a 29R, so I retook. I got the scores back today - 32P.

What should I do at this point? I sent my primary app last week, and I'm expecting a lot of rejections. Should I start looking at SMPs? Do I have even a remote chance of getting into an allopathic school? I'm a CA resident, so I applied very broadly.

I also wanted to say that while lurking, I found the advice of posters like Gujudoc, drizzt3117, Dr. Midlife and Perrotfish invaluable. Hats off to you folks! 🙂

 

[jl lin]

Have to say that I have read good advice from Dr. Midlife and drizzt.

Truth is, mostly, well, numbers matter. It's more than that though, and no one has said otherwise. It's about the whole application, but you have to start with getting the basics in line. With zillions of apps coming into MS, it would be an anomally to not get passed over--first pass review of app--> core numbers--with the numbers as shared from that other poster.

Moe, "a lot of people" that you say have gotten in are not most or half or even anything close to that.

Bottom line--probability wise, the lower your numbers, the less likely it is that you will get a decent first look at your app, much less a second, or an initial interview. Trend the recent stats of those accepted. Are there exceptions? Yes, but they are referred to as exceptions for a reason.

It is what it is.


Finally, it is sad that some would imply things about a person, without knowing what is going on in that person's life. As I recall the person you have referred to was accepted to MS at one point and personal reasons put a hold on things. The other person whose opinion you reject out-of-hand is currently in medical school. *scratching head*

So please don't make negative comments about people when you aren't clear on their particulars. It's that old rule about what happens when you assume. . .

 

[vik31]

-Edit: deleted

 

[drizzt3117]

Also a long-time lurker and first time poster. Just graduated from college this year, cGPA = 3.46, sGPA = 3.38, MCAT = 38S. Upward trend in my GPA for my last year (went from being a mostly B/B+ student to A-/A in my upper-level science classes).

I'm not sure what schools to seriously apply for - money is a bit tight at the moment, so I want to apply to schools which I know will have the best chance of acceptance rather than shooting for schools which will DQ me just based on my GPA.

You don't need a postbac at all. Just apply broadly to med school.

 

[deleted192690]

Let's talk about facts then. Obviously it's not impossible but if you look at the acceptance percentages from the aamc for 3.0/31 it's about 25%, and a lot of the people getting in with those stats are URM. My guess is the chances for a non-URM student with those #s is < 10%. The chances of getting in with those #s and a solid SMP performance are about 80%. Any other questions?

Source: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpagridall2007-09.pdf

Sorry, I forgot to mention, I'm asian female. I don't know if being a female really constitutes under-representated at the moment, but I am asian. My expectations during the admissions process were much lower than the numbers you are giving.

 

[DrMidlife]

"Under-represented" means the percentage of a demographic's doctors is low compared to the percentage of that demographic in the general population.

Native Americans are under-represented.

People who grew up in poverty are under-represented.

Women are not under-represented in medicine. A little over 50% of the general population, a little less than 50% of the last graduating class.

Asians are not under-represented in medicine. About 5% of the general population, about 20% of the last graduating class.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/
http://factfinder.census.gov/

 

[pmc2025]

Hi guys, this is probably one of the most important threads on SDN right now, and has really given me a lot of hope. I was wondering if it was possible to get some advice. I'm going into my junior year at a small but intense liberal arts university. According to the "magic" XLS med school selector, my AMCAS BCMP is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.9, and my cGPA is a 3.1. I've got a decent upward trend right now, and I think I've got some fantastic ECs as well as LORs in the wings lined up. How high can I realistically expect my GPA to climb, and given that GPA, what are my chances? Thanks!!


ECs
-Intern - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton
-ER Tech
-EMT-B
- LOR from supervisor 10/10 quality
-Clinical Research Associate
-Habitat for Humanity - New Orleans
-1st Tenor/PR Chair for my Acapella Group
-Pre-Health Society Member
-Indigent HIV Clinic Volunteer - Cape Town SA
-Neuro-Oncology Lab Researcher
-LOR from PI 10/10 quality
-Disaster Response Task Force
-Student liason to University for overseeing University response to
local/national/international disasters

 

[jslo85]

Hi guys, this is probably one of the most important threads on SDN right now, and has really given me a lot of hope. I was wondering if it was possible to get some advice. I'm going into my junior year at a small but intense liberal arts university. According to the "magic" XLS med school selector, my AMCAS BCMP is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.9, and my cGPA is a 3.1. I've got a decent upward trend right now, and I think I've got some fantastic ECs as well as LORs in the wings lined up. How high can I realistically expect my GPA to climb, and given that GPA, what are my chances? Thanks!!


ECs
-Intern - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton
-ER Tech
-EMT-B
- LOR from supervisor 10/10 quality
-Clinical Research Associate
-Habitat for Humanity - New Orleans
-1st Tenor/PR Chair for my Acapella Group
-Pre-Health Society Member
-Indigent HIV Clinic Volunteer - Cape Town SA
-Neuro-Oncology Lab Researcher
-LOR from PI 10/10 quality
-Disaster Response Task Force
-Student liason to University for overseeing University response to
local/national/international disasters

That question about how "how high" is dependent purely on how many credits you currently have and the grades received in them as well as the number of units/predicted grades that you will receive from here till the date you submit your primary application.

To be a "competitive applicant" you would want your GPA to be around 3.5 for both cGPA and sGPA (BCPM). You say you are entering your Junior year so I'm reasoning it out with logic that you would be looking to apply during the summer of 2011. I really have no idea how many science classes you have taken nor how many units and seeing that you're a non-traditional, the only advice I can give you is to take as many sciences classes as you can feasibly handle while finishing up your major requirements while obtaining the best grades possible (not considering workload, best grades possible for you). Know also that you will be putting down about a year's worth of planned coursework when applying during the summer and that you will need to be scoring very high on your MCAT. If you can establish an upward trend and a 35+ MCAT score, I predict your GPA won't reach the competitive range but with the complete package, if you apply broadly and early enough, you might hope for some favorable looks.

If all else doesn't pan out, there is always informal post-bacc or SMPs but focus on doing the best that you can and re-evaluate when you are closer to that point. There are too many variables up in the air currently so only try to directly influence the ones that you can right now.

 

[DefiantDoctor]

.

 

[jslo85]

I need some advice

Currently an entering 3rd year at UCSD
Overall GPA: 2.751
BCPM: 2.78

Got 1 D and 1 F, both retaken, replaced F (in organic chemistry I) with an A, replaced D in calculus with a C-

Have not taken MCAT yet

Research Paper in progress at UCSF school of medicine in dept of radiology. Going to be listed as co-author if and when published.

How screwed am I? oh and I'm asian, so no URM

EDIT: what advice do you guys have for me?
EDIT: after some courses I've taken, if I get all As (which I expect) I should have a 3.03 cGPA after you factor in the D and F that I've retaken (I read that they take both the F and the A into consideration), and my sGPA should be around 3.2 (without taking the D and F into consideration)

Well two points that I would like clarified if you can. Is that current GPA that you have with the replaced grades or not? If so, are you aiming osteopathic or allopathic?

With a 2.75/2.78 as an incoming junior that's not a good sign to say the least, but you have two summer sessions and a year's worth of grades to try to demonstrate an upward trend.

With grade replacement, only the primary application for osteopathic school (AACOMAS) will take the grade substitution into consideration during GPA calculation for coursework. AMCAS won't. If that is your GPA with grade replacement already, then you're really not in good shape.

Publication is noteworthy as a co-author (Hopefully 2nd author or higher) in a peer reviewed journal but that's supposing it gets accepted. By the time you actually submit your primary applicatino you should know the result as opposed to being able to put "submission in progress" on your current E.C/award section.

I guess the only thing I would say at this point is establishing an upward trend from here on out till when you do apply and study hard for the MCAT. I would also look into any clinical activities or experiences you can add to your resume to try to set yourself apart and bolster other areas to demonstrate that you're a candidate for medical school otherwise.

 

[DefiantDoctor]

.

 

[jslo85]

They will see both grades and for AMCAS they will average the two grades together during the grade calculation. Generally as a rule of thumb around here and amongst admissions counselors, they'll advise you for allopathic school to not repeat any classes unless you have below the minimum grade required for the pre-reqs but to take harder upper division sciences instead.

With a 3.35 aiming for allopathic school would be still in the green for SMPs in my opinion. The other option of course would be to continue with an informal post-bacc at your current or local university if you can realistically raise your GPA to about a 3.5 with a plethora of upper division sciences that you haven't taken already. If you have a reasonable 3.2+ and a high MCAT score, I would apply early and broadly while having a plan B for noteworthy SMPs.

Personally I'd do whatever I can to stay within the US but if you're deadset on allopathic and still don't have the grades, I'd personally choose the SMP route if it is a valid option over the Caribbean. I wouldn't think about these things just yet though since there is still a substantial amount of time and plenty of important variables still up in the air. Re-evaluate next summer where you stand and you should have a far better idea of what options are available. Just don't neglect the shadowing/clinicals/LOR.

 

[A Deep Breath]

(deleted)

 

[NoleDoc]

I Have a 3.32 cGPA and my sGPA is somewhat similar; my MCAT is pretty low with a score of 21. Haven't done enough EC's out of the medical scope, and I have pretty good LOR. Don't know if I should go the postbac route or the smp route. I applied to Med schools, received several secondaries with no interviews. I spoke with their admissions officers and they were able to tell me my gpa and mcat were far lower than their averages(28MCAT & 3.6GPA). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

 

[BeachBlondie]

I Have a 3.32 cGPA and my sGPA is somewhat similar; my MCAT is pretty low with a score of 21. Haven't done enough EC's out of the medical scope, and I have pretty good LOR. Don't know if I should go the postbac route or the smp route. I applied to Med schools, received several secondaries with no interviews. I spoke with their admissions officers and they were able to tell me my gpa and mcat were far lower than their averages(28MCAT & 3.6GPA). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

Were you applying to DO or MD schools?

 

[NoleDoc]

Were you applying to DO or MD schools?

I was applying to both. And I hate to say it...but I really don't want to have to do DO.

 

[DrMidlife]

I Have a 3.32 cGPA and my sGPA is somewhat similar; my MCAT is pretty low with a score of 21. Haven't done enough EC's out of the medical scope, and I have pretty good LOR. Don't know if I should go the postbac route or the smp route. I applied to Med schools, received several secondaries with no interviews. I spoke with their admissions officers and they were able to tell me my gpa and mcat were far lower than their averages(28MCAT & 3.6GPA). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

1. Fix your MCAT. You can't argue with the feedback you received. Take a prep course, dedicate 6 months to working on prep full time, take every single practice test, do it like your career depends on it. Because your career depends on it. See the MCAT forum for more advice.
2. Mitigate your GPA. It can't be fixed, but you likely will need to show some effort that demonstrates you can not just survive but thrive in medical school. You can do more undergrad work in upper div science (some call this a postbac). You can do an SMP (some call this a postbac). Doing nothing may get you into an MD school, maybe, depending on your state, your MCAT score, and the rest of your app.
3. Make sure the rest of your app is mature, complete, and compelling.

Best of luck to you.

 

[TheRach1025]

Hi everyone,

I'm a perpetual undergrad (Graduated HS in 2002) trying to raise my dismal GPA to >3.0 (currently 2.76 with 155 hours). I've used a nifty spreadsheet I found somewhere on the boards to calculate that I can raise my GPA to ~3.2 with 81 more hours of 4.0 work. I think this is completely doable with the two years I'm alloting myself since I've got most of the hard classes behind me. My main question is should I put off graduation with a Bio major and continue to raise my GPA or should I take the classes I need to graduate and then do a post-bac to take upper level science course? I'm leaning towards putting off graduation for price reasons but would like to know whether there is any benefit to raising my GPA with a post-bac.

My Story: I initially went to College in NYC from Texas in 2002 and due to immaturity (17 years old at the time) and disillusionment I screwed up my first 2 years with many F's (bonafide), unnoficial withdrawals (basically F's) and eventually academic dismissal (1.126 GPA). A year later (2005) I entered a community college in Brooklyn and graduated a year and a half later with an AS in Bio with a 3.9 GPA. I entered another senior college in Brooklyn and have done very well since then (although I did fail Orgo 1 the first time around but got an A the 2nd) with almost all A's.

My second question is will the academic dismissal from my first college really destroy my chances at getting into an SMP which I know is my only realistic chance to become an MD. I assume if I do well enough in the SMP, med schools will disregard my early college blunders. Is this so?

I posted this 2 years ago. I just wanted to give an update to give some people in my former situation some hope. I was able to get some of my former grades from my early years amended to W's instead of WU's (F's). This dramatically increased my GPA (~0.2pts). I've since graduated and calculate my AMCAS cGPA as 3.34 and my sGPA at 3.20. This is still low but it gives me a chance with a chance with a good MCAT score. I'm taking the MCAT in 13 days. I'm also starting at the NIH IRTA program in about a month. This thread was very helpful to me and I'll definitely post again to update on acceptances/rejections/etc.

On another note, is anyone able to review my personal statement? I've sent it to 15 people on the readers list and am yet to receive a single response.

 

[Vanish]

Starting an informal post-bacc next week with a 3.2 cGPA and 2.1 sGPA. I'm so nervous! I hope I can raise it!

 

[recycledpaper]

Starting an informal post-bacc next week with a 3.2 cGPA and 2.1 sGPA. I'm so nervous! I hope I can raise it!

you can 🙂

best of luck!

 

[futureMD3312]

Hi,

I graduated from Barnard College at Columbia University with a 2.97 gpa. I want tp pursue medicine... I always have but at Barnard I encountered some personal problems that interfered with my academics. I had to withdraw a total of three times. I come from a disadvantaged background and things were rough when it came to dealing with this and academics. But, now that I am older, I am sure that I can work and do all the extra work I need to get into medical school. I am now pursuing a Post bac at City College, where I'll be taking my premedical requisites (it the only place I can afford right now). After completing this I want to apply to a MPH program to help my application to medical school and as a second option if I don't get into medical school once I have applied. It is my plan to do work very hard and do very well in the science courses and MCAT and GRE.
Can someone please give me their opinoun on my situation? What are my chances of getting into medical school if my plan goes as planned?

 

[DrMidlife]

Hi,

I graduated from Barnard College at Columbia University with a 2.97 gpa. I want tp pursue medicine... I always have but at Barnard I encountered some personal problems that interfered with my academics. I had to withdraw a total of three times. I come from a disadvantaged background and things were rough when it came to dealing with this and academics. But, now that I am older, I am sure that I can work and do all the extra work I need to get into medical school. I am now pursuing a Post bac at City College, where I'll be taking my premedical requisites (it the only place I can afford right now). After completing this I want to apply to a MPH program to help my application to medical school and as a second option if I don't get into medical school once I have applied. It is my plan to do work very hard and do very well in the science courses and MCAT and GRE.
Can someone please give me their opinoun on my situation? What are my chances of getting into medical school if my plan goes as planned?

You're on a GPA comeback, so an MPH won't help you at all. An MPH says "see, I do great when I'm not taking super hard science." You want more like "see, I do great when I'm taking boatloads of super hard science, and that tells you my cumulative undergrad GPA isn't representative of what I can do." Plus you need to kill the MCAT.

Look into SMPs - see the stickies at the top of the forum.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Vanish]

you can 🙂

best of luck!

Thanks! 🙂

 

[sunnygirl11]

I felt really disheartend (I think I spelled that right) about my low gpa (3.28), but going through many of these threads has really lifted my spirits lol. This is one of the most helpful websites I've been on 🙂

 

[recycledpaper]

just wondering, what's exactly considered a "low gpa?"

 

[deleted248403]

IMO below 3.0

 

[DrMidlife]

Agree w/rob, but I'll go farther: 3.0 is too low to have any confidence or comfort in a med school app. MD or DO. Do people sometimes get in with a sub-3.0? Sure. Should you have confidence or comfort that you'll be one of those anecdotes? Absolutely not.

From the perspective of planning for a GPA comeback, I like to go to the matriculant data.
Average cumulative overall undergrad GPA for 2009 matriculants: 3.66
One standard deviation down from there: 3.4
Two standard deviations down: 3.14

I also like to go to the raw applicant:matriculant data.
Number of applicants in 2009: 42269
Number of matriculants in 2009: 18390
So 43.5% of applicants matriculate.

My interpretation of this data:
1. More than half of applicants get rejected. I consider it a mistake to think of the rejected half as being uncompetitive. I consider it prudent to assume that a competitive app has less than a 50% chance.
2. With a 3.4 GPA or higher, I wouldn't focus on GPA improvement, depending on what state I'm from.
3. With a 3.14-3.4 GPA, I would be thinking about an SMP.
4. With a sub-3.14, I would be thinking about doing more undergrad and maybe also an SMP.
5. With an irreparable sub-3.0 GPA (too much undergrad coursework to improve), I would try really hard to find another career. The investment required to get in from a sub-3.0 is not reasonable. If I'm not able to get excited about another career, and I'm willing to be unreasonable, then I would do everything. Peace Corps. Move to an "easier" state. 2nd bachelors at a 4.0. 35+ MCAT. SMP. Research.

From my perspective the above is a recipe for minimal confidence & minimal comfort about GPA and only about GPA. The rest of your app has to be solid and compelling, so that admissions committees want to fight for you.

Lastly, keep in mind that there's never a guarantee. A perfect app is not a guarantee, a strong SMP performance is not a guarantee, and even a program like Temple that guarantees you a seat can reject you if they subjectively view you as unsuitable.

Best of luck to you.

 

[tley1115]

Agree w/rob, but I'll go farther: 3.0 is too low to have any confidence or comfort in a med school app. MD or DO. Do people sometimes get in with a sub-3.0? Sure. Should you have confidence or comfort that you'll be one of those anecdotes? Absolutely not.

From the perspective of planning for a GPA comeback, I like to go to the matriculant data.
Average cumulative overall undergrad GPA for 2009 matriculants: 3.66
One standard deviation down from there: 3.4
Two standard deviations down: 3.14

I also like to go to the raw applicant:matriculant data.
Number of applicants in 2009: 42269
Number of matriculants in 2009: 18390
So 43.5% of applicants matriculate.

My interpretation of this data:
1. More than half of applicants get rejected. I consider it a mistake to think of the rejected half as being uncompetitive. I consider it prudent to assume that a competitive app has less than a 50% chance.
2. With a 3.4 GPA or higher, I wouldn't focus on GPA improvement, depending on what state I'm from.
3. With a 3.14-3.4 GPA, I would be thinking about an SMP.
4. With a sub-3.14, I would be thinking about doing more undergrad and maybe also an SMP.
5. With an irreparable sub-3.0 GPA (too much undergrad coursework to improve), I would try really hard to find another career. The investment required to get in from a sub-3.0 is not reasonable. If I'm not able to get excited about another career, and I'm willing to be unreasonable, then I would do everything. Peace Corps. Move to an "easier" state. 2nd bachelors at a 4.0. 35+ MCAT. SMP. Research.

From my perspective the above is a recipe for minimal confidence & minimal comfort about GPA and only about GPA. The rest of your app has to be solid and compelling, so that admissions committees want to fight for you.

Lastly, keep in mind that there's never a guarantee. A perfect app is not a guarantee, a strong SMP performance is not a guarantee, and even a program like Temple that guarantees you a seat can reject you if they subjectively view you as unsuitable.

Best of luck to you.

I currently have a 2.46 overall gpa and about 2.3 science. I have like 300 credits and I am still working at it just to get my gpa around a 3.0. I have been doing very well in the classes ive taken in the past year or so and have brought my gpa up from a 1.9 to a 2.46 by getting a 3.7+ gpa. I am hoping with this continued upward trend to the point where I can reach a 3.0 and a solid MCAT score (been getting very high scores on practice and have been studying very hard for it) I will be able to make it into a SMP of my choice. I have been doing research and have a total of three publications two of which have been within the past year. Im working on finding volunteering opportunities as well in hospitals. Any advice that may help guide me is much appreciated. thank you.

 

[deleted248403]

If you have 300 credits at 2.46 - then you have another 160 credits at 4.0 to get to a 2.996.
160 credits is 5+ years....

I suggest a different course of action then just taking classes until you get a 3.0.

I suggest you look to the Carib, or hope to hell that 2-3 years of 3.7+ is enough for an SMP to take a long shot on you.

Personally, id consider the carib or a different career option

 

[lmesina]

for the 2.46, 300 credits person:

Don't D.O. schools do grade replacement? I'm not sure if there is a limit, but if you were to retake all the C's, D's, and F's you got, then you may possibly raise your GPA to >3.0.

Not sure how D.O. schools might view this, maybe not too favorably? In terms of numbers, this makes sense to me.

Just my .002 cents

 

[tley1115]

If you have 300 credits at 2.46 - then you have another 160 credits at 4.0 to get to a 2.996.
160 credits is 5+ years....

I suggest a different course of action then just taking classes until you get a 3.0.

I suggest you look to the Carib, or hope to hell that 2-3 years of 3.7+ is enough for an SMP to take a long shot on you.

Personally, id consider the carib or a different career option

Thanks for the advice. I am not too worried because every quarter my gpa goes up about .1 points. By next summer I should have around a 2.7 so within the next year or so I should be eligible for a SMP. I dont see where you are getting 5 years from?

 

[deleted248403]

Well firstly your GPA will stop rising because of the diminishing returns. I suggest you do the same math I did and calculate the number of credits it takes you to get 3.0

5 years+ is achieved from the 160 credits I calculated, and at most schools a year is 30 credits. If you are on the quarter system and thus achieve a diff # of credits per year then that might explain it. Again, you should prob do the math yourself...

And a 2.7 is not competitive for an SMP, most schools have a minimum level of 3.0 - so you still have a long way to go

 

[BeachBlondie]

Thanks for the advice. I am not too worried because every quarter my gpa goes up about .1 points. By next summer I should have around a 2.7 so within the next year or so I should be eligible for a SMP. I dont see where you are getting 5 years from?

Good ol' diminishing returns....

Rob's right.

The longer you take classes, the more your grades will begin to level off. Ever notice--during your first few semesters of college--your GPA would swing dramatically? Then, towards the end of your Bachelor's you couldn't budge your GPA if you tried? That's due to the vast amounts of grades stacking up and cancelling the other's out. The estimation of 5+ years is actually pretty spot on.

 

[tley1115]

Well firstly your GPA will stop rising because of the diminishing returns. I suggest you do the same math I did and calculate the number of credits it takes you to get 3.0

5 years+ is achieved from the 160 credits I calculated, and at most schools a year is 30 credits. If you are on the quarter system and thus achieve a diff # of credits per year then that might explain it. Again, you should prob do the math yourself...

And a 2.7 is not competitive for an SMP, most schools have a minimum level of 3.0 - so you still have a long way to go

I am on the quarter system and I have also done the calculations. My practice MCATs are 37+ so if I can score that I am pretty sure they wont care if I have a 2.7-2.8. especially since the past two years I have maintained a really high GPA.

In a year, I am taking 68 credit hours, so I am not really sure what you mean by leveling out if they are new classes and wont be averaged? I get the concept of the more you take the harder it is to get the gpa up, if that's what you're referring to.

Anyways, doing the math I am doing, within the next year to year and a half I can get my gpa up around a 2.8, and I am banking on a solid MCAT score. After this the plan is that I will apply to a SMP. I actually talked to a few people in the SMP class, of the college I am currently attending, and they also had sub 3 gpas with a high mcat so I am guessing they do make some exceptions? I have worked very hard to make sure I pick only upper division courses in this "come back" so I am hoping that I will be able to prove to them that I am capable of competing with the other students.

 

[deleted248403]

Ok - so you didnt really come here for advice but merely just to tell us your life story and why we are wrong? Ok excellent - thanks.

 

[ModernAlchemist]

I am on the quarter system and I have also done the calculations. My practice MCATs are 37+ so if I can score that I am pretty sure they wont care if I have a 2.7-2.8. especially since the past two years I have maintained a really high GPA.

In a year, I am taking 68 credit hours, so I am not really sure what you mean by leveling out if they are new classes and wont be averaged? I get the concept of the more you take the harder it is to get the gpa up, if that's what you're referring to.

Anyways, doing the math I am doing, within the next year to year and a half I can get my gpa up around a 2.8, and I am banking on a solid MCAT score. After this the plan is that I will apply to a SMP. I actually talked to a few people in the SMP class, of the college I am currently attending, and they also had sub 3 gpas with a high mcat so I am guessing they do make some exceptions? I have worked very hard to make sure I pick only upper division courses in this "come back" so I am hoping that I will be able to prove to them that I am capable of competing with the other students.

You're off to a great start with those practice scores and a well thought out plan. Good luck!

 

[tley1115]

Ok - so you didnt really come here for advice but merely just to tell us your life story and why we are wrong? Ok excellent - thanks.

Oh I'm sorry just because I didn't kiss your ass when you have nothing productive and useful to say except put people down, I am not coming for advice? please! Get off your high horse little man. I got good advice from others who did not feel the need to be pessimistic jerks. The reason I "told my life story" is to make sure it looks like a reasonable plan and to get input from individuals who actually KNOW what they are talking about (which there are plenty of those people on this forum). I am sorry that you do not seem to fall into that category.

 

[tley1115]

You're off to a great start with those practice scores and a well thought out plan. Good luck!

Thank you! It's nice to get some re-assurance that the plan seems do-able.

 

[tmntdonjuan]

I am on the quarter system and I have also done the calculations. My practice MCATs are 37+ so if I can score that I am pretty sure they wont care if I have a 2.7-2.8. especially since the past two years I have maintained a really high GPA.

In a year, I am taking 68 credit hours, so I am not really sure what you mean by leveling out if they are new classes and wont be averaged? I get the concept of the more you take the harder it is to get the gpa up, if that's what you're referring to.

Anyways, doing the math I am doing, within the next year to year and a half I can get my gpa up around a 2.8, and I am banking on a solid MCAT score. After this the plan is that I will apply to a SMP. I actually talked to a few people in the SMP class, of the college I am currently attending, and they also had sub 3 gpas with a high mcat so I am guessing they do make some exceptions? I have worked very hard to make sure I pick only upper division courses in this "come back" so I am hoping that I will be able to prove to them that I am capable of competing with the other students.

I think robflanker's issue is that you came across a little cocky.

You shouldn't assume that you're going to get a great score. I was averaging 37 on practice tests and scored a 28 before retaking and getting a 34. Scoring much lower on the real deal has happened to plenty of other people. You can't predict the MCAT.

Your plan is do-able. If you can get your GPA to ~2.8 with a good MCAT then you certainly have a chance at an SMP. Apply broadly and see which ones will accept you. I also had a 2.8 GPA from undergrad but with a competitive SMP GPA and a good MCAT I managed to find a med school that was willing to forgive me for my academic sins. 😱😀😍

BTW, even if you have a competitive SMP GPA (3.7+), good/great MCAT, and all the other stuff (clinical, volunteering, letters of rec), be prepared for a lot of med school rejections (the vast majority screen out applications <3.0 undergrad GPA). I think that's why people like DrMidlife advise people to get their GPA above 3.0 before doing an SMP. It really does make a difference. I applied to 30+ schools and only got 2 interviews 😱.

 

[tmntdonjuan]

Agree w/rob, but I'll go farther: 3.0 is too low to have any confidence or comfort in a med school app. MD or DO. Do people sometimes get in with a sub-3.0? Sure. Should you have confidence or comfort that you'll be one of those anecdotes? Absolutely not.

5. With an irreparable sub-3.0 GPA (too much undergrad coursework to improve), I would try really hard to find another career. The investment required to get in from a sub-3.0 is not reasonable. If I'm not able to get excited about another career, and I'm willing to be unreasonable, then I would do everything. Peace Corps. Move to an "easier" state. 2nd bachelors at a 4.0. 35+ MCAT. SMP. Research.

From my perspective the above is a recipe for minimal confidence & minimal comfort about GPA and only about GPA. The rest of your app has to be solid and compelling, so that admissions committees want to fight for you.

Lastly, keep in mind that there's never a guarantee. A perfect app is not a guarantee, a strong SMP performance is not a guarantee, and even a program like Temple that guarantees you a seat can reject you if they subjectively view you as unsuitable.

Best of luck to you.

I'll have to politely disagree with the bolded. I had a sub 3.0 GPA as did a few others I know and still managed to get into medical school. I didn't do the post-bacc route to bring up my GPA to 3.0 (would take too long since I had too many units) and instead jumped straight into an SMP (VCU CERT). I think the big disadvantage of applying to med school with a GPA <3.0 is that you will receive a lot of rejections regardless of your SMP GPA (majority of schools screen at 3.0 undergrad), so bringing it to 3.0+ certainly works to your advantage.

My point is: it's very difficult getting in with a GPA <3.0 but not as impossibly hard as "find another career...The investment required to get in from a sub-3.0 is not reasonable."

Peace Corps. Move to an "easier" state. 2nd bachelors at a 4.0. 35+ MCAT. SMP. Research. I have none of those (well besides the SMP).

 

[DrMidlife]

I'll have to politely disagree with the bolded. I had a sub 3.0 GPA as did a few others I know and still managed to get into medical school. I didn't do the post-bacc route to bring up my GPA to 3.0 (would take too long since I had too many units) and instead jumped straight into an SMP (VCU CERT). I think the big disadvantage of applying to med school with a GPA <3.0 is that you will receive a lot of rejections regardless of your SMP GPA (majority of schools screen at 3.0 undergrad), so bringing it to 3.0+ certainly works to your advantage.

My point is: it's very difficult getting in with a GPA <3.0 but not as impossibly hard as "find another career...The investment required to get in from a sub-3.0 is not reasonable."

Peace Corps. Move to an "easier" state. 2nd bachelors at a 4.0. 35+ MCAT. SMP. Research. I have none of those (well besides the SMP).

I respect your experience, and I expect disagreement when I go out on a limb with generalized advice. My question to you: what advice would you give somebody in the shoes you were in before you started your postbac? Would you tell them to assume it's going to be as straightforward as it was for you, ie just do the VCU program, get a good MCAT score and don't worry? Did everybody in the VCU program have equal success? Are you telling the whole story? (usually we find out at this point that a little detail like URM was left out)

I'd like to point out that I didn't advise anybody to give up. I advised trying to find another career. I advised that it's not reasonable to attempt a GPA comeback. And I offered some steps to take. If you want blanket encouragement, call your mom.

Best of luck.

 

[tley1115]

I'll have to politely disagree with the bolded. I had a sub 3.0 GPA as did a few others I know and still managed to get into medical school. I didn't do the post-bacc route to bring up my GPA to 3.0 (would take too long since I had too many units) and instead jumped straight into an SMP (VCU CERT). I think the big disadvantage of applying to med school with a GPA <3.0 is that you will receive a lot of rejections regardless of your SMP GPA (majority of schools screen at 3.0 undergrad), so bringing it to 3.0+ certainly works to your advantage.

My point is: it's very difficult getting in with a GPA <3.0 but not as impossibly hard as "find another career...The investment required to get in from a sub-3.0 is not reasonable."

Peace Corps. Move to an "easier" state. 2nd bachelors at a 4.0. 35+ MCAT. SMP. Research. I have none of those (well besides the SMP).

That definitely gives me more clarity on the whole 3.0 issue. Thank you! Yeah then I will definitely stay in school for another quarter or two to get it above a 3.0. I have no problem spending that extra time to be very honest. My tuition is completely paid for through my job so I am extremely grateful for that as well. And more importantly, this IS the ONLY career I want to pursue and therefore it really leaves me with no other choice but to just keep going and hope for the best. However, now that I have gotten good advice from a few of you about the 3.0 gpa I will definitely keep going till I hit that point before I even apply SMP. thanks again!

Just to clarify- I was not trying to be cocky at all with my response to rob. However, I don't feel that I should come accross as putting myself down either just because others see me as "not up to par" for what I want to do with my life. I CAN fix this and its in THAT fact that I have the most confidence. Not necessarily that I think I am "too good" to fall into the rules of how this stuff works. Once again, I appreciate all the input. It has been a tremendous help.👍

 

[tmntdonjuan]

I respect your experience, and I expect disagreement when I go out on a limb with generalized advice. My question to you: what advice would you give somebody in the shoes you were in before you started your postbac? Would you tell them to assume it's going to be as straightforward as it was for you, ie just do the VCU program, get a good MCAT score and don't worry? Did everybody in the VCU program have equal success? Are you telling the whole story? (usually we find out at this point that a little detail like URM was left out)

I'd like to point out that I didn't advise anybody to give up. I advised trying to find another career. I advised that it's not reasonable to attempt a GPA comeback. And I offered some steps to take. If you want blanket encouragement, call your mom.

Best of luck.

The advice would certainly be to try to get their GPA above 3.0 before an SMP, while making sure they have all their other bases covered (i.e. MCAT, volunteering, letters of rec, and clinical experience). However, above a 3.0 may not be feasible for some people. I had ~2.8 but due to the extremely high number of units taken in college, it would've taken at least 2 years of post-bacc at 4.0 to bring it above a 3.0. I don't know everyone's stats who did the VCU program, but I know of 2 other people in my year with sub 3.0 undergrad GPAs (~2.8) who did well (4.0) and were accepted to VCU's medical school. I'm also an Asian American from Southern California so I'm as far from URM as it gets.

I'm not downplaying how difficult the application process is, especially with a sub 3.0 GPA. Maybe things would be better clarified by reading this earlier post I made. I didn't really emphasize this before, but TONS of clinical experience is vital (ER Scribing is great for this).

Your plan is do-able. If you can get your GPA to ~2.8 with a good MCAT then you certainly have a chance at an SMP. Apply broadly and see which ones will accept you. I also had a 2.8 GPA from undergrad but with a competitive SMP GPA and a good MCAT I managed to find a med school that was willing to forgive me for my academic sins. 😱😀😍

BTW, even if you have a competitive SMP GPA (3.7+), good/great MCAT, and all the other stuff (clinical, volunteering, letters of rec), be prepared for a lot of med school rejections (the vast majority screen out applications <3.0 undergrad GPA). I think that's why people like DrMidlife advise people to get their GPA above 3.0 before doing an SMP. It really does make a difference. I applied to 30+ schools and only got 2 interviews 😱.