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Congratulations - please share more details of you story so others might get inspiration/ideas from itWow! Five years later and I finally got into medical school
Congratulations - please share more details of you story so others might get inspiration/ideas from itWow! Five years later and I finally got into medical school
You need more than one year of redemption. You can't counter 4 years of bad with one of pretty good.Cum: 2.55 (1 F, 1 D-, 1 D+, 2 W)
Postbac:
Sci: 3.81 (including A's in Orgo1&2)
Nonsci: 3.54
Cum: 3.72What are we looking at here? I know I'm a long shot, but is my post bac work anywhere near what DO schools would like to see?
Hey, I've been lurking for a few weeks, too embarrassed to share my story, but here goes:
My high school offered college courses, I took 4 and got B+'s to A's.
I went to a small, elite liberal arts school and immediately began doing TERRIBLY. I have an anxiety disorder that I ignored with disastrous effect.
Undergrad:
Sci: 2.22
NonSci: 2.77
Cum: 2.55 (1 F, 1 D-, 1 D+, 2 W)
Initially I thought that I just didn't want academic success badly enough, so I took a year off between sophomore and junior years and worked as an EMT, which I loved. When I came back to school, I still was anxious and became depressed, so my grades got worse. Finally in my senior year I failed a class and went on academic probation, which, regardless of whether or not I ever get into medical school, I will be forever grateful because it helped me see that having 3 panic attacks a week is not normal, and was the push I needed to get diagnosed and turn my life around.
I worked in biomedical research for 2 years, had some amazing opportunities (got to work with a space shuttle mission), and then took an admittedly relatively light year of post bac (3 semesters, total 36 credits) where I retook some classes at a community college and a state school and did pretty well.
Postbac:
Sci: 3.81 (including A's in Orgo1&2)
Nonsci: 3.54
Cum: 3.72
For some insane reason, I thought I could jump into orgo 2 without taking orgo 1, so I do have a withdraw in my postbac year. I'm back working in research for another year, and I'm taking the MCAT next week. I have consistently been getting 33's in practice, and I have no testing anxiety so I hope to get a 33 officially. (fingers crossed for a 34!)
I will be applying exclusively to osteopathic schools, and my top choice is NYCOM.
What are we looking at here? I know I'm a long shot, but is my post bac work anywhere near what DO schools would like to see?
For medical school? I hope you are jokingThanks for your feedback, guys! I'm already all set to apply this round, will it hurt me if I try? I figure best case I get in, worse case I lose a good chunk of money...
Do the grade calculations and then see where you stand.Hey man, I'm just here looking for some help. I'll take your comment as advice not to apply this round.
There are definitely bottom tier DO and Carib schools that will accept you if you throw a 30+, but you'd be a fool to accept them. Do another couple years of redemption before you waste your time and money on applying. The emotional roller coaster of a bad app year takes a toll, long term. I recommend having great respect for your competition.NonSci: 3.00
Sci: 2.73
Cum: 2.89
This really depends on what state you're in, because in California it'd be a weak app but in LA/GA/MS/etc that masters degree will probably get the job done. Generally your undergrad GPAs are going to be THE problem in your app, regardless, so be emotionally prepared for a rough app cycle.Here is my situation, and I would appreciate any feedback:
cGPA: 3.31
sGPA: 3.15
MCAT: 33
I went to a top 15 private school. I really struggled my first two years, and have a D, a C+, and a C- to show for it. I came out of my sophomore year with a 2.9 cgPA, so I really busted my ass to bring it up to where it is now. I am currently working on a Masters degree in a science-heavy major, and am expecting to graduate in July with a 4.0. I'm applying to MD schools this cycle. I have plenty of research experience, some volunteering experience, and good LOR's.
I need to re-take the C- as it was a pre-req course (Physics II); if I get an A, that will bring my sGPA to 3.2 and cGPA to 3.34. I have calculated that if I take 8 more science credits in addition to Physics II and earn A's, my cGPA will come up to 3.39 and sGPA to 3.29. Would this be worth the ~$6,000 tuition?
So what do you guys think of my chances/any advice to improve my application?
I'd vote for you to look for an opportunity to retake the prereqs so you learn the material, and to get some fresh upper div undergrad science to help with your numbers. You're going to find that you don't have enough content mastery to do well on the MCAT, nor to do well in an SMP nor med school, until you've revisited your trouble areas and gotten mostly A's. You might still need an SMP after you do more undergrad.Wondering what type of program people think would be best with these stats from a top tier undergrad university:
cGPA = 3.25
sGPA ~~ 3.20 (Core pre-med courses GPA is even lower, roughly 2.9, with 2 C's)
Haven't taken the MCAT or GRE.
Right now I'm leaning towards a Record Enhancement Program (I.e. UPenn, WashU, Drexler, SFSU) but I have also given some serious consideration to a Masters in something like anatomy. Any advice would be appreciated.
Edit: One other possibility is take the GRE ASAP and apply to a SMP but I'm not sure how feasible that would be/if I'd even have a shot at the better programs this late in the cycle.
I'd vote for you to look for an opportunity to retake the prereqs so you learn the material, and to get some fresh upper div undergrad science to help with your numbers. You're going to find that you don't have enough content mastery to do well on the MCAT, nor to do well in an SMP nor med school, until you've revisited your trouble areas and gotten mostly A's. You might still need an SMP after you do more undergrad.
You don't have to do a formal program. You can do a 2nd bachelors or take classes through HarvardX/BerkeleyX/etc. I strongly recommend against community college or online work, but otherwise you can do whatever you like to get classes.
Meanwhile, talking about the prestige of your school is really annoying. The public school 4.0's will be eating you for breakfast. The 3.5's too. Nobody wants to hear why you think your low GPA is better than somebody else's low GPA.
Best of luck to you.
The AAMC practice tests have aged badly, with the focus on 2015 now. Practice tests have become less and less predictive of test day, because people relax after they do okay and then they stop doing content review and then oops, questions on topics that you never saw on a practice test determine your career. If you look around SDN you'll see an epidemic of high practice scores followed by low exam scores. I recommend doubling down on content review, such as the Examkracker 1001 books. Yes, work every problem until you can do it all cold.Really appreciate the input.
My practice MCAT scores right now are hovering in the low 30s (with my weakest section consistently being PS) so I'm not sure if re-taking the prereqs is necessary for me at this point although it obviously can't hurt.
Is raising the undergrad GPA definitely the way to go over a science-focused Masters? Would doing it through a program like SFSU vs. a program like UPenn make a big difference?
Here's the number crunching I did assuming I take 2 semesters worth of undergrad course work:
Assuming all "A's":
4 courses per semester (12 units per semester) = 3.3666 ~ 3.37
5 courses per semester (15 units per semester) = 3.3905 ~ 3.39
5 courses per semester with one 4 unit course each (16 units per semester) = 3.3981 ~ 3.40
Also, what exactly do you mean by "X"?
Lastly I only mention the prestige factor because I keep getting told that it will make a difference (at the very least, with all else equal). I'm not banking on the prestige of my undergrad to get me accepted anywhere.
Wondering what type of program people think would be best with these stats from a top tier undergrad university:
cGPA = 3.25
sGPA ~~ 3.20 (Core pre-med courses GPA is even lower, roughly 2.9, with 2 C's)
Haven't taken the MCAT or GRE.
Right now I'm leaning towards a Record Enhancement Program (I.e. UPenn, WashU, Drexler, SFSU) but I have also given some serious consideration to a Masters in something like anatomy. Any advice would be appreciated.
Edit: One other possibility is take the GRE ASAP and apply to a SMP but I'm not sure how feasible that would be/if I'd even have a shot at the better programs this late in the cycle.
Not entirely true - some med schools use a GPA multiplier for schools based on reputation of grade inflation or deflation. Even some DO schools do this. But again, it's a tiebreaker.adcoms could care less about the prestige of your undergrad institution, or where you take your post-bacc courses (I even called and asked an admissions director when I was deciding where to take my post-bacc courses).
Not entirely true - some med schools use a GPA multiplier for schools based on reputation of grade inflation or deflation. Even some DO schools do this. But again, it's a tiebreaker.
3.3 is almost neutral, because the work you do in your postbac gets averaged into your cumulative overall GPA. You could have a 3.4+ overall, 4.0 science, killer MCAT, and a dream app cycle.I have a 3.3 GPA from liberal arts school, no science courses. I'm starting a post bac pre med this fall. Knowing myself I predict to get *mostly* A's, but I can't tell ahead of time how I'll do on the MCAT.
So I guess my question is how much will my undergrad GPA hurt my chances to an MD program? If all goes well in the next 2 years and I get high grades and a decent MCAT, what are my chances to an MD vs. DO?
3.3 is almost neutral, because the work you do in your postbac gets averaged into your cumulative overall GPA. You could have a 3.4+ overall, 4.0 science, killer MCAT, and a dream app cycle.
The problem is that from a 3.3 non science GPA the odds are poor that you'll succeed in science classes. Premed coursework is the graveyard of champions for those who wanted to be a doctor since birth. Assume that the prereqs will be the hardest classes you've ever taken. You might get lucky and love it. But seriously, be ready to work.
It's completely up to you how this turns out. If you go after your postbac, from day one to the last day, like your career depends on it (which it does), and you do absolutely everything possible to become a consistent and diligent student, sure, you can get A's, and sure, you can get into med school. Unfortunately what we see here all the time is that fantasy and denial and frustration take over. You're going to find out very soon if you have the discipline and focus and work ethic to get where you want to be.
BTW, if you're in California or New York or one of the other extremely competitive states, 1 year of postbac won't be enough to get the job done.
Lastly, if you don't have lots of clinical experience yet, volunteer or paid, that's a major problem. Get tons of hours this summer.
Best of luck to you.
Hello jgrob,Hey everyone,
I've been a long time lurker in these threads going through my post-bacc phase after some poor grades as an undergrad. I thought I would briefly share my stats to inspire hope as these threads can be somewhat depressing. When I graduated from undergrad I had a cGPA of 2.99 and sGPA of 2.66. The best thing I did was realize I dug myself a hole my sophomore year and stopped taking pre-med classes, so the 2.66 was only 32 semester hours worth. I chose to stop rather than buckle down and stick with premed because I was also a serious college athlete and decided to focus on that. I know there are many college athletes who are able to focus and excel at both, but I seriously lacked the maturity to do so at 19 years old.
Anyway, after spending a couple years abroad playing basketball, I decided I was ready to come back, face my poor GPA, and make a go at med school. I did a DIY post-bacc at my state university (two years). I looked at some traditional post-bacc programs, but decided I wanted more flexibility in cramming as many math and science courses in as I could to offset my GPA. I also spent about 4 months meticulously studying for the mcat. Additionally, because I had taken so many math and science courses, I had enough prereqs to pursue a masters degree in biomedical engineering this last year, thesis and all, while I was applying to med schools. I ended up applying with a cGPA of 3.4 and sGPA of 3.65, and a 37 mcat (non-URM). Most of the advice I got was apply to lower tier MD schools and DO schools. I applied to 30 MD schools across all tiers. I ended up getting a few acceptances, and two of them to top ten schools.
Of course everyone's situation is different, so it is hard to give general advice on what route to take. Get straight A's in a post-bacc or SMP and rock the mcat seems to be a common theme, and is definitely sound advice. However, because we have low GPAs, we're already starting with a red flag, and there are plenty of applicants who have solid GPAs and good mcat scores who didn't need a post-bacc. So another piece of advice I can offer is to do something different and unique. I think a lot of the success I had was because I didn't do a traditional post-bacc program, and I was able to communicate the value of doing a post-bacc the way that I did to adcoms. Adcoms are trying to put together a class of unique individuals who come from different backgrounds and experiences, so it is not simply a numbers game. That is where I believe you can gain an advantage as a low GPA applicant. Lastly, I would definitely say don't be afraid to own your low GPA. The personal statement provides ample opportunity to discuss, if needed, why your undergrad GPA is low, and being able to maturely discuss your faults and how you've recognized and improved on those can go a long way.
I apologize for the long post, but to all of those who are thinking of climbing the GPA mountain, or to those who are currently climbing, don't be afraid and keep at it! It is easy to come across naysayers in these threads, but if you are determined you can indeed succeed. Good luck!
You will need an SMP either way.... the only question is whether or not you should do the extra few classes to get to 3.3. IMO, the answer is yes. As you stand now, you have 0% shot at allo schools at all, and a low chance at low-tier DO schools.Hello all,
I'm back on this thread to seek advice. I currently have a cGPA 3.25 and 3.0 sGPA (this is including 1 year of post-bacc work, which was a 3.75 GPA). I'm wondering if I should continue taking classes to get up to a 3.3 and 3.1, or if it really won't make a difference. Obviously the better I look the better my chances but it would take me another 4 classes to even get my GPA to move up a little. I just finished an internship and will be working full-time because they (health related job) asked me to stay for the rest of the year. I'm fairly confident about my ECS, obviously not about my GPA, and still no MCAT. Continuing post-bacc or a SMP would def cause a huge financial burden, so I guess I'm just wondering if I might have shot at a DO school or even the low tier allo schools? I'm also a CA resident which kind of makes my life suck as far as med school is concerned. Any advice? thanks everyone.
1) Be honest with yourself, a nice recovery trend is not from 2.85 to 3.1. You are still significantly below average for US MD admissions ( over 2 standard deviations, if you dont know what that means, google it).Hello,
I don't have the greatest stats in the world 3.1c and 2.9s. I have not taken the MCAT yet and yes I am from CA. I still have a year left and do have a nice recovery trend. 1st year:3.2, 2nd year 2.85, 3rd year 3.1, 4th year ???. I am not stupid and realize that those marks will not get me in anywhere so I saved my money until I knew I at least had a chance. I figured out what I was doing wrong and changed it. Now the last 70 quarter units have averaged a 3.3-3.4. Basically I am writing to see what people would recommend in terms of getting the gpa's higher. SMP or traditional post bac. Oh I forget Biology major with an anthropology minor. I have done some soul searching and found out that medicine is really what I want, I could have called it quits after my second year with the 2.85 but I didn't and have been working my rear off ever since. Also I think I have my EC's covered. Advice please!!
Right, this is the "wink wink I know the secret password to get people to tell me what to do" line...I have been doing some research
...aaaaaand now you ruin everything by using the other secret password that gets you mocked because of the thousands of others who have been in exactly your situation, plus/minus the Canadian undergrad which isn't much of a difference. It actually helps you with med schools who have figured out that Canadian GPAs use a more draconian curve than in the US. (Such as UToronto's minimum 3.7 GPA for its med school.)but my situation is a bit unique so I thought I would make a post on here!
Go do an SMP unless you're in California or New York, in which case do a multi-year plan. Either way, don't apply MD until after you're done with the SMP.cGPA: 3.3 sGPA: 3.3 MCAT: 34 (12/10/12)
That makes it sound like Gtown has (a) some control over what other med schools do, which Gtown does not, and (b) that Gtown is doing something unique (wink wink) that the other SMPs don't do. Of course Gtown wants you to apply MD just in case it works out because that makes Gtown look good. Gtown loses exactly nothing if you get accepted by an expensive, low-tier med school far far from home, instead of waiting to apply when you're most likely to have a great outcome (a public school in your home state).I am considering Georgetown due to the fact that they encourage applying before you start so there is a possibility of not having to do a glide year because you get some grades to send off to schools.
Boston has my vote here because you can apply during your 2nd year in the program and not have to go find a job or move again. Also consider Tufts, maybe Temple, maybe NYMC.However, BU MAMS seems like a great option to me as well due to the prestige, research opportunities and the connections I have there (worked there for a summer, did my shadowing there as well).
You don't get to have a schedule with low numbers. You take what you can get and do the best you can. Out of the ~45,000 mostly very well qualified MD applicants every year, ~20,000 get rejected, so having a multi-year view on the process is just good math even if your numbers are good. Visit the reapplicant forum for tales of worry and woe, and to find out what the common mistakes are. And your priority should be doing whatever it takes to get into the cheapest best med school you can get into, where you'll succeed. In some cases, that's a DO school. It's never a Carib school. Being in a big fat hurry to get in somewhere/anywhere is a big fat mistake. Put together the most compelling app you can possibly produce, and then apply.I guess my main question is if I should even be considering this being a 1 year process? I have a feeling I'm not but some advice is certainly welcomed! Thanks
Here is a good starting place. www.google.comHey all, I've done some reading through the forum and searching online regarding post bacc pre med programs and need some help. I am graduating next year and am looking for a post bacc program that: 1.) is a formal post bacc 2.) is preferably in the South and 3.) accepts graduate loans. All help is appreciated
Yeah cause that's what I'm asking for is for other people to do my homework.
I came here asking for help and was snarky given a link to Google when I stated I already was searching online and just posted here looking through another outlet that has a lot of interaction (SDN) and somehow I'm the one with an attitude problem?I haven't even begun the application cycle and won't for at least another year so my input won't be as strong as someone who has, but I hope the attitude you just indicated here does NOT make it to your interviews.
I came here asking for help and was snarky given a link to Google when I stated I already was searching online and just posted here looking through another outlet that has a lot of interaction (SDN) and somehow I'm the one with an attitude problem?
If you want to post a list of the programs you have research and identified as possibilities, and then ask people for feedback or advice on them - then thats a diff story.Yeah cause that's what I'm asking for is for other people to do my homework.