The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

[realizerx]

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I just want to point out to everyone on this thread that you are ALL amazing and awesome.

I'm an undergrad sophomore (a semi-newbie here), knew I was going to do premed someday but wasn't ready to enter college just yet, was forced by the dark side to attend college anyway, and now my GPA is just way down at the bottom of the dumpster. I talked to an advisor a week or two ago who told me that I shouldn't be doing premed anymore (all my science courses are in the range of 2.0 - 2.8 🙁) -- just hearing that from her and watching her square all the poopy grades made me want to cry (and I did 😳).

But what do you know, I randomly come across this forum full of people who just have some AWESOME optimistic outlook on life. I found what I was lacking -- motivation and hope 👍

Now I understand that where there's a will, there's a way 😀 !

GOOD LUCK to everyone here!

 

[cphunter08]

Graduated from a top 30 school with a 2.8 GPA as a Psychology major. I didn't take any pre-med prereqs except for the Bios (both D's). I've decided I want to go to medical school, so is the correct route to go for a post-bacc? Do that for 2 years then take my MCAT?

 

[DrMidlife]

Graduated from a top 30 school with a 2.8 GPA as a Psychology major. I didn't take any pre-med prereqs except for the Bios (both D's). I've decided I want to go to medical school, so is the correct route to go for a post-bacc? Do that for 2 years then take my MCAT?

"top 30" matters very little. Your cumulative, overall and science GPAs, and a decent MCAT score, determine your fate way more than anything else. My metric is minimum 3.4 for MD schools, minimum 3.1 for DO schools. Folks have disagreed with me on this but I think those numbers are still too low, really.

Every grade you ever got must be reported. MD schools don't forgive repeats; DO schools do. You have to repeat bio to get a C or better.

But to get to the point, yes, 2 years of premed prereqs and the MCAT are your next steps. Along with the med school requirements (one year each, with labs, of genchem, ochem, bio and physics) you should also try to take some upper div science such as biochem, microbiology, immunology, physiology and/or anatomy.

If you're able to get your cumulative GPAs to a comfortable level after 2 years, great, you're ready to apply. You might need more than 2 years to do this, or you might need to look into an SMP (see the FAQ at the top of this forum).

Note that "ready to apply" means that by mid-May of your application year, you have stong GPAs, a 30+ MCAT score in hand, along with stellar LORs, stellar and diverse ECs, a professionally reviewed personal statement (your 20 year old friends are no help with this), and an empty credit card, so that you can hit "submit" on the applications as soon as they open. Texas opens in May, AMCAS and AACOMAS open in early June.

Best of luck to you.

 

[someday1735]

I posted elsewhere on this forum but was encouraged to post in this thread to get more feedback...

So let me throw myself, my story and my scores out there to get ripped apart.

I completed my undergrad coursework last year with a poor GPA of 2.8 (AMCAS, my actual institutional GPA was 3.5, yes I know only AMCAS matters). I am currently in an M.S. program with a GPA of 4.0 (I will finish late 2009). I took the MCAT and achieved an overall composite of 41 (b15 p13 v13).

I have a decent amount of medical/research experience as follows...

I have worked for the past few years as a Paramedic/Firefighter in a busy metropolitan department, prior to that I was employed as an EMT in an Emergency Department. During my time in the ED I also assumed part-time roles in other departments (Cardiology, OR, PACU). I have 4 years of cumulative genetic research experience which netted me 1 publication, more abstracts then I can count and a couple of presentations at relatively prestigious conferences. I have been an Instructor for EMT, ACLS, BLS and PHTLS courses for the past couple of years as well. I also had the opportunity to serve voluntarily as a missionary for two years for my church in Thailand where I also became fluent in the Thai language. I have a bunch of other random volunteer/shadowing experiences that aren't worth going into detail in this forum.

I believe I have relevant factors that affected my performance as an undergrad (immediate family member suicide, failed marriage due to her infidelity) but I don't really want to use those as excuses for failure. My overall application is burdened by my poor performance (GPA) as an undergrad and I am worried that they will completely inhibit me from gaining admission. I am slightly older than the typical applicant (27) and worry that might hurt me as well.

I guess what I'm looking for is an outside opinion of what you perceive my chances to be as well as what else can I do to better my application. Yes, I would prefer a US allopathic school but I am not so closed minded as to not consider other options. Any advice/direction anyone could offer would be appreciated.

 

[BORNagainSTDENT]

I am almost 26 years old .

Any suggestions on what kind of program I should take? I want to fulfill the prereqs since I don't really have any of them, only Statistics and English (which I need work in any way)as I will be done with the a business management bachelors at the end of this semester. I failed some non science classes due to personal issues and I do not see my self graduating with much higher than the very low 2.?'s

I am considering SGU or Ross as a goal and also might apply to the actual SGU premed program which is 3 years long.

I live in NYC and need a program that would accept me with my low GPA. I go to a small private college, St Francis college and would rather not pay to retake any classes at my current school.

 

[Perrotfish]

I completed my undergrad coursework last year with a poor GPA of 2.8 (AMCAS, my actual institutional GPA was 3.5, yes I know only AMCAS matters). I am currently in an M.S. program with a GPA of 4.0 (I will finish late 2009). I took the MCAT and achieved an overall composite of 41 (b15 p13 v13).

First, I hope you're planning on applying for the class of 2014, it's pretty much too late to apply for 2013, even if the official deadlines haven't all passed.

Your MCAT is so far above the average, and your GPA is so far below the average, and your situtation is so unique, that it's difficult to reliably advise you. There just aren't enough people that have applied with your stats for us to know what your odds of success would be. If you have the money I'd say give an early, broad application a shot. I feel like the strong performance in your Masters plus your MCAT score should get you some interviews. Not that I've ever seen anyone with your stats get interviews (since I've never seen anyone with your stats) but it just seems like the ADCOMs couldn't possibly be stat-centered enough to not even talk to you. I'm also guessing you'll net interviews at just about every DO school, if you're willing to go that route.

If that doesn't work out for you, you' be virtually guarenteed a spot at a high linkage 1 year SMP like EVMS. You might want to look into it as a backup. You could theoretically even do an SMP during your application year, if that doesn't interfere with your MS program (if it does, don't even consider dropping out of the MS, you need to finish everything you started). It's expensive, but you would be virtually guarenteed an acceptance if you did well.

I am slightly older than the typical applicant (27) and worry that might hurt me as well.

I can pretty much guarentee you being 27 won't hurt you at all.

I believe I have relevant factors that affected my performance as an undergrad (immediate family member suicide, failed marriage due to her infidelity)

A 2.8 from reliably bad work is different from a 2.8 due to this kind of one-time personal trajedy. If you have excuses like this the ADCOMs need to know about them. Work with a premed advisor on incorperating this into your primary or secondary. ADCOM members are human beings, they're perfectly aware of what a horrible situation like a suicide can do to your GPA.

Good luck.

 

[meilideai]

Hi there,
I have a similar situation as dresden62 up there and was wondering if you guys could give me some advice! So here goes..

5th year, just finishing up some classes

UCSD
cGPA: 3.29
BCPM: 3.04

I havent taken the MCAT yet, but I plan to sometime soon, around spring 2009.

What do you feel is the best route for me to take here, post bacc vs. SMP? My BCPM is quite low.. I am also a transfer, so when I transferred into UCSD, all I had left were science classes - quite the heavy load, but also many things were not going smoothly for me junior year. I picked myself up senior year, but my gpa trend is very much up and down (like dresden) and there's not a clear upward trend

My ECs and LORs are solid, but I would really like another chance to prove I can handle the upper div science courses. I did manage to do well in a couple of them like Mammalian Physiology lecture/lab, Pharm, etc. But a significant portion of my UDs are Bs and some Cs.

Any advice would be truly appreciated; am feeling lost, but I am not giving up

 

[SBK]

I figure I might post this here

UG GPA = 2.97 or so

SMP = 3.9

MCAT = 34ish (dont want stalkers but its close)


Just got into med school

 

[meilideai]

Hi SBK!! Congrats 🙂 What a relief at the end of such a long feat.

Can you tell me a little about the path you took to get there? Did you do a post bacc to boost your gpa first or went straight into SMP?

 

[Perrotfish]

What do you feel is the best route for me to take here, post bacc vs. SMP? My BCPM is quite low.. I am also a transfer, so when I transferred into UCSD, all I had left were science classes - quite the heavy load, but also many things were not going smoothly for me junior year. I picked myself up senior year, but my gpa trend is very much up and down (like dresden) and there's not a clear upward trend

First, your immediate target is to rock the MCAT. Without that you don't go to medical school, period.

Fastest route to medical school is to go Carribbean. You could be in medical school next fall. You could also be one of the legions of students who invests 200K in an off shore medical school only to fail out/not get a residency. Second fastest route to medical school is an SMP. If you apply for this fall (application deadline around april) you could be in medical school for the class of 2014, 2015 at the latest. Again, you could also fail and screw your application over permanently. The slowest, safest, and probably cheapest, method would be to retake classes until you get to the 3.4 necessary to get into DO schools and maybe (with a high enough MCAT) the lowest tier MD schools.

What you do is going to depend on your tolerance for risk/expense vs. your tolerance for waiting to get in. I went with the SMP because, well, one way or the other I wanted to get the premedical thing over with.

 

[meilideai]

Thanks Perrotfish, your advice is much appreciated. I guess what I'm confused about is whether the SMP gpa will be enough to make up for the poor UG gpa?

I don't mind taking the longer route because I don't have a good foundation in science and was hoping to work on that, but getting in earlier sounds good too..

I've looked ino a few SMPs like Drexel and Georgetown and I'm still thinking whether I should raise the undergrad gpa a little before going to that program. With a year's worth of post bacc and getting As through would barely raise my gpa up, maybe a mere .2, getting me up to around a 3.24 BCPM. Still not very good, so I'm not sure if thats worth it. Can someone that did a post-bacc give me some insight?

It looks like I'm leaning towards post-bacc but I am also confused on the difference between an "informal" and a "formal." How do you do an informal? Do you just postpone graduation and keep taking UD science courses, or you register in a uni's extension program and start taking class after you've completed a Bachelor's? Thanks in advance 🙂

 

[Perrotfish]

Thanks Perrotfish, your advice is much appreciated. I guess what I'm confused about is whether the SMP gpa will be enough to make up for the poor UG gpa?

If you did well in the SMP yes, it absolutely would. At least that was the experience of the posters on this board, including my own.

I don't mind taking the longer route because I don't have a good foundation in science and was hoping to work on that, but getting in earlier sounds good too..

I'll be honest, you can't really prepare for medical school in undergrad beyond the mandatory courses in the premed cirriculum. Medical schools, aware of this, are actually starting to favor undergrads with liberal arts degrees. Just focus on studying for the MCATs and getting in, don't worry about medical school until you're there.

I've looked ino a few SMPs like Drexel and Georgetown and I'm still thinking whether I should raise the undergrad gpa a little before going to that program. With a year's worth of post bacc and getting As through would barely raise my gpa up, maybe a mere .2, getting me up to around a 3.24 BCPM. Still not very good, so I'm not sure if thats worth it. Can someone that did a post-bacc give me some insight?

If you get into an SMP, and do well, you get to go to medical school, pretty much regardless of your previous undergrad GPA. There is a slight chance that your GPA is too low to get into the SMP in the first place (this will depend on your MCAT), but if that's the case they'll let you know and you'll be doing a year of post-bac work by default. I'd say apply broadly (at least half a dozen programs) to SMPs after you're done killing the MCAT and start at a program like Drexel IMS next year.

Really, my advice here is to choose a path. Post bac is longer and cheaper, SMP is more expensive and faster. Post-bac THEN SMP is like first cooking yourself dinner and then going to eat. Makes no sense.

It looks like I'm leaning towards post-bacc but I am also confused on the difference between an "informal" and a "formal." How do you do an informal? Do you just postpone graduation and keep taking UD science courses, or you register in a uni's extension program and start taking class after you've completed a Bachelor's? Thanks in advance

Formal post-bacs refer to formal programs designed to get college graduates that majored in the liberal arts through their premed requirements. This does not apply to you. Informal post-bac is a fancy way of saying you take more undergrad classes to get your GPA up, generally either at your old univerity or at a local cc/low ranked 4 year college. That sounds like the plan you have now (which I think is a bad idea)

Again, though, main advice: take a formal review course for the MCAT and do very, very well.

 

[nattols]

How can you calculate you undergrad. bcpm gpa ?

Also, 4-yr senior, 21 yrs old. Human Bio major, w/ minor in science, tech, envir and public policy, 2.87 GPA. 2 internships, tons of volunteer and shadowing experience, worked for state w/ enrolling pts. in medicare and other programs ( 1 yr.), lab job w/ carcinogens & intermediates for pharm. companies (current) and was assitant coordinator for surg. residency program ( 1.5 yrs). No mcat yet, waiting for practices test scores to be mid 30's.

just needed some advice about my next step:

take more upper level science course and get 4 point's or apply to post bacs that will also increase my undergrad gpa?


Does anyone know of any programs that seems like it could fit my situation?

 

[Day man]

Hello sdners,
New to posting, just wanted an opinion of some people who are/were in my position.

So I am a senior BME major at GaTech, graduating this December in 4.5, with 2 semesters of co-op experience. My GPA overall is a 3.3 and my science GPA is ~3.5.

I scored a 33R on my mcat, and have a good amount of volunteer/research/clinical experience. I have applied to 22 schools, and so far it looks like I would be going to a school like drexel, robert wood johnson, or UMDNJ.

I was wondering what thoughts were on me applying to one of the upper tier SMP to boost my overall application, and reapply next matriculation to get into some good schools or even get financial aid. Does anyone think this would be worth it, or even possible? Thanks,

 

[oranje]

Hello all,

Well, I've been searching for information on low GPA students and it seems like most in here think of 3.0-3.3 as low. I am going to graduate next May with a ~2.7 GPA; I have not yet calculated my BCPM, it is probably a bit higher though still <3.0. Is it at all possible to get into a masters program for science with this GPA? I have read the advice that says a 3.0 is only an average recommendation at most schools, a good MCAT can make up for a <3.0 GPA, that people have done it with a low GPA, etc. but has anyone actually done this or directly known someone who has? I want to believe this but it seems very unlikely as their must be many applicants with better credentials. Tomorrow I am going to talk with an advisor from PCOM to find out about their program and hopefully get some insight on what to do. Does anyone have experience with a similar very low GPA?

 

[Archimedes83]

I have a cum 2.95 gpa. I haven't yet calculated my science gpa.

I got my BS in biology and directly out of college I thought I wanted to go for my MS in microbiology. I've since realized that I'd like to get an MD degree. I have yet to take the MCAT as well.

My question is what is the best option? After reading some of the posts I feel like I have two options...attend a post-bac program to raise my gpa, or do a special masters degree. I don't fully understand the idea of "linkage" but I realize that with my low gpa I have a long road ahead of me no matter what I do.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Perrotfish]

My question is what is the best option? After reading some of the posts I feel like I have two options...attend a post-bac program to raise my gpa, or do a special masters degree. I don't fully understand the idea of "linkage" but I realize that with my low gpa I have a long road ahead of me no matter what I do.

Probably one then the other, actually. Linkage means that the special masters program you attended accepts most of it's students into it's own medical school. Most SMPs are low linkage, meaning they focus on improving your resume to get you into other medical schools. The high linkage is nice because it's essentially a clean slate: the school is basically saying that if you do well enough in their program you're in.

As you said, you can either do more undergrad to raise your GPA or do an SMP to improve yor resume. In your case you're probably going to spend the next year doing more undergrad, then start the SMP a year from this fall, to apply for medical school for the class of 2015. Sorry if that seems like a long road. If you want to go DO, you might be able to skip the SMP and start in 2014 if you do well enough next year and on the MCAT. If you want to go to the Carribbean, you might be able to start this coming fall if you take the MCAT in April and do well, but good luck not failing our and/or getting a residency.

First two hurdles for you:

1) shadow a doctor and get a letter of recommendation (needs to be a DO if you want to go that route)

2) Study for the MCAT (take a formal review course), take the MCAT, and get at least a 30.

Good luck.

 

[Perrotfish]

but has anyone actually done this or directly known someone who has? I want to believe this but it seems very unlikely as their must be many applicants with better credentials.

Yes, I did with a 2.8 and an SMP program. Read through the thread you're posting in for more success stories. You'll see that, first, you need to bring up your GPA at least a bit (at least to a 3.0, if you can't get a stellar MCAT, if you can a 2.8 or a 2.9 will probably be fine). You'll also see that the high MCAT generally doesn't get you into medical school, it gets you into a program (special masters) where you prove that you're good enough for medical school. Your other option is to raise your GPA enough that you can get in. You're right, people don't go directly to medical school with a 2.7, regardless of MCAT.

 

[oranje]

You're right, people don't go directly to medical school with a 2.7, regardless of MCAT.

I wasn't thinking I could get into med school with a 2.7, I know that is nearly impossible. What I was asking is, is it even possible to get into an SMP with a 2.7? From what I have read a few people have but they get ~37+ MCAT, as you said. So with a 2.7 my only options are: 1) Keep taking undergrad courses to raise GPA 2) Do very well on MCAT and try for an SMP 3) Try for a regular MP in bio(?) Is the third option even viable if I want to get into med school? I have never seen much information about acceptance from normal MPs that are not med school oriented. It seems that most graduate programs have deadlines around December which would be too late for me.

 

[hung]

there are smps that will take you with a sub 3.0 gpa, but you want to get above the 3.0 mark so you can get to into the higher smps. getting the higher undergra gpa helps in the long run when you apply to med school. i'm currently in vcu's certificate program (semi smp) and i got in with a sub 3.0 gpa and decent mcat (33). it is possible to get into an smp with a 2.7 gpa, but you need a good mcat to compensate. it is better to spend the time to bring up your gpa and develop good study habits. those that make it in smps are those that already know how to study and hit the ground running when in the program.

 

[DrMidlife]

I wasn't thinking I could get into med school with a 2.7, I know that is nearly impossible. What I was asking is, is it even possible to get into an SMP with a 2.7? From what I have read a few people have but they get ~37+ MCAT, as you said. So with a 2.7 my only options are: 1) Keep taking undergrad courses to raise GPA 2) Do very well on MCAT and try for an SMP 3) Try for a regular MP in bio(?) Is the third option even viable if I want to get into med school? I have never seen much information about acceptance from normal MPs that are not med school oriented. It seems that most graduate programs have deadlines around December which would be too late for me.

On the other side of an SMP, no matter how well you do, adcoms are still going to look at your undergrad GPAs. An SMP is no protection against an autoscreen. Furthermore, one year of success in an SMP doesn't wipe out 4 years of non-success in undergrad, when excoms are arguing for one candidate over another after interviews. I would not spend the money and take the risk of an SMP with a sub-3.0.

I think that a regular masters program would be a mistake with a questionable GPA. Regular grad work, particularly with bench research, is a solid, reputable extracurricular activity. It does nothing to address undergrad GPA.

In your shoes, unquestionably, I would get my undergrad overall/science GPAs up over 3.0, and I would get a 30+ MCAT score. Then the choices are these (bare minimums imho):
1. Get GPAs up over 3.1 and apply DO.
2. Get GPAs up over 3.4 and apply MD.
3. Do an SMP.

Note that none of these paths guarantees you a spot in med school. There are plenty of well-qualified candidates among the 60% of applicants who don't get in every year, MD and DO.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Perrotfish]

I wasn't thinking I could get into med school with a 2.7, I know that is nearly impossible. What I was asking is, is it even possible to get into an SMP with a 2.7? From what I have read a few people have but they get ~37+ MCAT, as you said. So with a 2.7 my only options are: 1) Keep taking undergrad courses to raise GPA 2) Do very well on MCAT and try for an SMP 3) Try for a regular MP in bio(?) Is the third option even viable if I want to get into med school? I have never seen much information about acceptance from normal MPs that are not med school oriented. It seems that most graduate programs have deadlines around December which would be too late for me.

A regular Masters in bio won't help you get into medical school, no.

Really I'd expect you to spend this coming schol year improving your grades to get into an SMP (as well as rocking the MCAT along the way) and then spend the subequent year taking classes to get into medical school.

The other options

1) Retake classes you did badly in until you get to around a 3.2 (with grade replacement), get a good MCAT, get a letter of rec from a DO, apply DO (early and broadly).

2) Take new science classes until you get to at least a 3.4 (without grade replacement, get an above average MCAT, apply MD (early and broadly)

3) Get a decent MCAT, apply for this coming Spring's class in a Carribbean medical school, try not to fail out.

you can do it you want to, many have before.

 

[Archimedes83]

Thanks for all of the helpful info Perrotfish. I've been talking to a few post-bac programs and the general census is that since my BS is in biology I would be better off just re-taking undergrad courses I did poorly in and taking upper division to raise my undergrad gpa. Apparently I can take undergrad classes without having to be "degree seeking."

So here's my plan, please tell me what you think -

1. Spend the next year or two taking classes to raise my undergrad gpa.

2. Take the MCAT (for a review course, do you recommend a certain one?) during this time.

3. Apply to a one year SMP. Get stellar grades

4. Apply to med school for the class of 2015. I don't mind the long road. I don't care about my age really, I just want to make sure I don't short change myself again.

Does that sound about right? Personally I'd prefer to not go the Carribean rout.

Thanks again for your insight!

 

[orbitaloverlap]

Hey guys,

Next semester is my last semester in college. I'm a major in chemistry (B.A.) and a double minor in another science and a humanities subject. For the course of my undergraduate career, I've been suffering form major depression, now, finally I feel much better and incredibly more confident in my abilities. Due to family issues and personal problems, my transcript looks like the battlefield after the battle. I have a couple of W's, many C's, an F, and a two D's.

Now, that things are turning around for me, I'm performing better in school and I hope that with my tenacity, courage, persistence and passion for what I learn I can accomplish my original goals- becoming an M.D.

My GPA, as of now, is a 2.65. I took the MCAT this past summer but voided my test due to my low confidence even after a day-and-night study regiment spanning all summer. I am now ready to attack the MCAT again, possibly in April/March- when the post-bacc's are approaching their deadlines.

I have all my applications queued, and I'm ready to start filling them out. I have good volunteer experience in the emergency room doing research (for a couple of years), I'm starting some geochemistry research, I have experience dealing with sick elderly patients and feeding them during their stay at the hospital.

I'm a deeply motivated person, I have my values and I don't want to sacrifice any of them. My goal is graduating successfully from an American medical school. I'm 21, and for my young age I've already suffered in much personal agony. But, I do not want or need anybody's pity or sympathy- what I'm saying is that I do have a story of personal triumph- hopefully one that an admissions committee can appreciate.

Is there any chance that I may be accepted to an SMP, considering that most of their cutoffs are 3.00 GPA's. I know I must pour much effort into the MCAT- can a nice score on the MCAT land me a spot, say at Georgetown SMP (ideally) or any other post-bacc out there? Should I keep taking undergrad courses to reach a 3.0? I know that that would be especially tough.

Thank you so much, in advance, for your help.

-OO

 

[Perrotfish]

Is there any chance that I may be accepted to an SMP, considering that most of their cutoffs are 3.00 GPA's. I know I must pour much effort into the MCAT- can a nice score on the MCAT land me a spot, say at Georgetown SMP (ideally) or any other post-bacc out there? Should I keep taking undergrad courses to reach a 3.0? I know that that would be especially tough.

This was just addressed above. While there isn't a hard and fast cutoff for any SMP execpt EVMS (2.75 minimum GPA) and Loyola (3.0 minimum GPA) the 3.0 'recommended' minimum GPA at every other program means that, even with a spectacular MCAT, getting into an SMP with a 2.65 is going to be tough. Georgetown told me flat out that I wasn't getting in with less than a 3.0 unless I had at least been near to a 4.0 for my final year.

I'd say plan for this to be a two year battle: 1 year retaking classes (or taking new classes) to get As and raise your GPA, a second year in the SMP, and THEN medical school. If you get a great MCAT next year go ahead and apply to SMPs now (it's a cheap application process and the worst they can say is no) but also get started on improving you stats for SMP classes beginning in the fall of 2010.

Keep in mind if you have any Fs or Ds amoung your premedical prereqs you need to retake them to get a passing grade.

 

[orbitaloverlap]

Thanks for your insight.

I was actually hoping that it wouldn't come to that possibility. How about a traditional master's degree? Are there students who were successful with that track?

I've basically taken all of the major science classes at my college being that I'm a chemistry major. I haven't taken many biology courses, but these courses are intense and only 2 credits a piece. I'm not sure that getting A's in another bachelor's degree in biology would even bring my GPA up to par.

It's really tough, my parents keep suggesting law as a career move. I'm really proficient in logic and I'm pretty successful in my philosophy minor, the problem is that I'm so invested in medicine. I love it. That's a conversation for another time, though.

Given my stats, is it possible to get accepted into a graduate program and then apply to an M.D. medical school successfully?

 

[DrMidlife]

Thanks for your insight.

I was actually hoping that it wouldn't come to that possibility. How about a traditional master's degree? Are there students who were successful with that track?

I've basically taken all of the major science classes at my college being that I'm a chemistry major. I haven't taken many biology courses, but these courses are intense and only 2 credits a piece. I'm not sure that getting A's in another bachelor's degree in biology would even bring my GPA up to par.

It's really tough, my parents keep suggesting law as a career move. I'm really proficient in logic and I'm pretty successful in my philosophy minor, the problem is that I'm so invested in medicine. I love it. That's a conversation for another time, though.

Given my stats, is it possible to get accepted into a graduate program and then apply to an M.D. medical school successfully?

As Perrotfish and I keep saying, repeatedly, in this thread, traditional graduate work does nothing for you beyond being a solid extra-curricular activity. You need to address your undergrad GPA. Period.

See post 1095 above for my standard prescription.

 

[NutCracker2021]

wait now i am confused...you are saying that a Masters program would NOT help your undergrad GPA?? What about a Masters in Biomedical Sciences like at UMDNJ or PCOM..that are geared towards enhancing your application?? those are straight right..🙂

 

[Perrotfish]

wait now i am confused...you are saying that a Masters program would NOT help your undergrad GPA?? What about a Masters in Biomedical Sciences like at UMDNJ or PCOM..that are geared towards enhancing your application?? those are straight right..

A Masters in Biomedical sciences affiliated with a medical school, called a 'special masters program' or SMP, helps your application a lot (if you do well).

A traditional masters degree, not designed specifically to enhance your credentials for medical school, helps your application so little you might as well think of it as not helping at all (or at least that's been the experience of the people who posted here).

 

[DrMidlife]

wait now i am confused...you are saying that a Masters program would NOT help your undergrad GPA?? What about a Masters in Biomedical Sciences like at UMDNJ or PCOM..that are geared towards enhancing your application?? those are straight right..🙂

A Masters in Biomedical sciences affiliated with a medical school, called a 'special masters program' or SMP, helps your application a lot (if you do well).

A traditional masters degree, not designed specifically to enhance your credentials for medical school, helps your application so little you might as well think of it as not helping at all (or at least that's been the experience of the people who posted here).

An SMP or "medical masters" or "med school app credential improving program" is NOT A TRADITIONAL MASTERS. I agree w/Perrotfish and I'll add the following:

1. No masters program of any kind will help your undergrad GPA. Not even an SMP will help your undergrad GPA. No matter what you do in a med school app credential improving program, such as an SMP, undergrad is undergrad and adcoms are going to consider undergrad very strongly.
2. Keep in mind that many SMP students start with well over a 3.0 undergrad GPA.
3. Your GPA had better be the only thing wrong with your app when you start an SMP. If you lack maturity, experience, or a decent MCAT score, an SMP will not save you.

 

[Perrotfish]

2. Keep in mind that many SMP students start with well over a 3.0 undergrad GPA

While true, I still think this is irrelevant. Everyone I've talked to says ADCOMs weight SMP performance so heavily that whether you went into the program with a 3.3 or a 2.8 doesn't matter much. This seems to match up to what people have posted here. I think (I'm sure there are exceptions, and I'm not 100% sure of what I'm saying anyway) a higher GPA only improves your chances, post-SMP, if it gets you passed some sort of computerized autoscreen (my GPA got me autorejected from VCU, for example. They don't read any application with less than a 3.0). Not many medical schools autoscreen. So, I think as a general rule that if you are going to do an SMP go as soon as one will accept you. Don't, for example, wait a year to get your GPA from a 3.0 to a 3.3 before doing an SMP. It's a waste of time.

 

[DrMidlife]

I'm going to disagree with some of this. Which I think is good, in a Siskel & Ebert tradition.

Everyone I've talked to says ADCOMs weight SMP performance so heavily that whether you went into the program with a 3.3 or a 2.8 doesn't matter much. This seems to match up to what people have posted here.

I think this depends on the adcom, the med school, and the SMP. I think that a low-GPA candidate would do well to address WHY their GPA is low, and show improvement (particularly in upper-div science), before doing a last-ditch, hail-mary SMP. You don't suddenly become a 4.0 student just by having good intentions. And you don't suddenly become good at upper div science because you get into an SMP.

I think (I'm sure there are exceptions, and I'm not 100% sure of what I'm saying anyway) a higher GPA only improves your chances, post-SMP, if it gets you passed some sort of computerized autoscreen (my GPA got me autorejected from VCU, for example. They don't read any application with less than a 3.0). Not many medical schools autoscreen.

I definitely disagree with this. You can't assume you're going to win once you get an interview. Do you know what happens AFTER your interview? Somebody has to fight for you. Maybe it comes down to a great candidate who did well in undergrad, and a great candidate who didn't do well in undergrad but did well in an SMP. One year in an SMP doesn't make you shine brighter than the kid who didn't make mistakes all along. An SMP shows commitment, shows academic prowess, sort of gives adcoms an insurance policy on you. But a sub-3.0 undergrad GPA leaves a really bad aftertaste. OK, so you had a good SMP year, but you had 4 weak ones prior, hmmm, maybe we'd better go with the safe bet.

So, I think as a general rule that if you are going to do an SMP go as soon as one will accept you. Don't, for example, wait a year to get your GPA from a 3.0 to a 3.3 before doing an SMP. It's a waste of time.

Well, you literally can't make that much of an improvement in a year. But I would argue that doing a year at a 3.7+, prior to doing an SMP, would make the $50k investment in the SMP more of a sure bet. You'll be accruing interest on that $50k all through med school and residency (all but $8500 of it).

And I think folks need to be generally scared ****less of failing in an SMP. There's no room for error there. Undergrad work has a much lower bar for do-overs.

 

[Isoprop]

Don't, for example, wait a year to get your GPA from a 3.0 to a 3.3 before doing an SMP. It's a waste of time.

I absolutely disagree. Moving from a 3 to a 3.3 is a tremendous improvement for only a 1 year investment. If you take a look at the MSAR graphs, the chances of getting into med school almost doubles from a 3.0 to a 3.3! No SMP can do that.

 

[orbitaloverlap]

Okay.. so I guess see what's going on here:

-a traditional masters doesn't do much.
-an SMP is much more effective for balancing a bad undergrad history.

Here's my question now:

Next semester will be my final semester at my college. Will it be possible to be considered for acceptance to SMPs applying NOW for next FALL, with a 3.0 GPA pending during my next SPRING semester?

The dilemma is that acceptances seem to be granted before the end of the semester. With a solid MCAT, will it be possible? That is of course including a pending April/March MCAT score? Is that too much for them to wait for, am I shooting for the impossible here?

 

[Perrotfish]

Next semester will be my final semester at my college. Will it be possible to be considered for acceptance to SMPs applying NOW for next FALL, with a 3.0 GPA pending during my next SPRING semester?

The dilemma is that acceptances seem to be granted before the end of the semester. With a solid MCAT, will it be possible? That is of course including a pending April/March MCAT score? Is that too much for them to wait for, am I shooting for the impossible here?

If you have your MCAT scores in time you can absolutely be considered for SMPs that being next fall, but your application will have the GPA you have at the start of the semester, they won't care that you have a 3.0 'pending'. However, even if your GPA is slightly less than a 3.0, there's a very good chance that with a strong enough MCAT they'll take you anyway. Again, the only SMP I know of that actually requires a 3.0 for admission is Loyola. With a strong enough MCAT you can (and I did) get in to pretty much all the rest of them with a sub 3.0 GPA.

Other good news: very few SMPs have rolling admissions (I believe Georgetown is one of the exceptions) so if you find a program that has a deadline after the end of spring semester and doesn't have rolling admissions you can wait to apply until your spring grades are in. Just make sure you don't miss any deadlines.

 

[parkit]

I wanted to say thanks for all the information provided in this thread. It has been a very helpful read. I am considering an SPM since I haven't had much progress with applications this cycle. I think my gpa/bcpm (3.35/3.2) is one of the main things hurting my application. I already graduated so I don't have anymore grades pending.

I was wondering whether I would have to wait until after the SPM is complete to apply for medical school since next cycle's app wouldn't have any grades from the SPM on it (I am a TX resident and TX schools do everything early)? If that is the case then would my MCAT from May 2007 still be valid since I would have to apply during the summer of 2010?

If I have to wait that long AND retake my MCAT (35Q) I might consider taking undergrad classes at the University of Texas as soon as possible to squeeze some grades into my undergrad gpa before the coming cycle. Is that reasonable? Also how do you choose what to take? Would I have to redo my premed classes (I got mostly B/B+'s) or could I take whatever upper level biology classes interest me?

any advice is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Perrotfish]

I wanted to say thanks for all the information provided in this thread. It has been a very helpful read. I am considering an SPM since I haven't had much progress with applications this cycle. I think my gpa/bcpm (3.35/3.2) is one of the main things hurting my application. I already graduated so I don't have anymore grades pending.

I was wondering whether I would have to wait until after the SPM is complete to apply for medical school since next cycle's app wouldn't have any grades from the SPM on it (I am a TX resident and TX schools do everything early)? If that is the case then would my MCAT from May 2007 still be valid since I would have to apply during the summer of 2010?

If I have to wait that long AND retake my MCAT (35Q) I might consider taking undergrad classes at the University of Texas as soon as possible to squeeze some grades into my undergrad gpa before the coming cycle. Is that reasonable? Also how do you choose what to take? Would I have to redo my premed classes (I got mostly B/B+'s) or could I take whatever upper level biology classes interest me?

any advice is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!

1) SMP (special masters program) not SPM

2) Yes, you can apply the same semester you're doing the SMP. You would send a note to the schools you're applying to along with your secondaries asking them to hold off on evaluating your application until you can send them your first semesters' grades. Unfortunately, while this does help, this means you're effectively incomplete until December, so there's a good chance that their classes are going to be full and you're going to end up with no acceptances and applying next year. In which case yes, you would need to retake the MCAT.

3) For those reasons, you probably want to look into a high linkage program like EVMS. These programs basically guarentee you a spot in their next class if you do well enough in their program. It's your best bet for not having a lag year in between your SMP and medical school.

4) Your application also might be good enough to get in to DO schools and a few low tier/ in state MD schools right now, if your application is sent out early enough. For these schools, you would NOT ask them to wait until your SMP grades are in to evaluate your application.

5) Retaking classes before the next cycle and doing the SMP are not mutually exclusive. You should be taking classes this spring to boost your GPA no matter what. Pick easy science courses (biologies and enviornmental sciences), anything you're reasonably sure you can get an A in. I'd also recomend Histology, if your school has a good program. It'll help when you get to medical school Pathology. No you don't want to retake any class you got above a C in. Unless you're planning on going DO you really don't want to retake anything at all. If you are planning on going DO you probably have a good enough application as is.

Good luck

 

[parkit]

Thanks a lot for the advice Perrotfish!

 

[aaronwillen]

.

 

[aaronwillen]

.

 

[orbitaloverlap]

If you have your MCAT scores in time you can absolutely be considered for SMPs that being next fall, but your application will have the GPA you have at the start of the semester, they won't care that you have a 3.0 'pending'. However, even if your GPA is slightly less than a 3.0, there's a very good chance that with a strong enough MCAT they'll take you anyway. Again, the only SMP I know of that actually requires a 3.0 for admission is Loyola. With a strong enough MCAT you can (and I did) get in to pretty much all the rest of them with a sub 3.0 GPA.

Other good news: very few SMPs have rolling admissions (I believe Georgetown is one of the exceptions) so if you find a program that has a deadline after the end of spring semester and doesn't have rolling admissions you can wait to apply until your spring grades are in. Just make sure you don't miss any deadlines.

Hey, thanks for your help. If I may ask, what were your stats when you were accepted to an SMP? How did you do on your MCAT, GPA? Im starting to get nervous that all my SMP goals will fall through. If that's the case I may take summer classes in order to pull through and apply to SMP's for SPRING 2010. It's really disheartening knowing my friends are going on to med school, but of course it's not about them- it's all me. I know I should be there also.

 

[EpsonMonkey]

Hi All,

I found this site via google while searching for a common ground for people with low gpas wanting to get into medical school. This thread gives me hope and also knowing that I'm not the only one going through this tough journey. Thank you.

Anyhow, I'd like to share my journey with you since it's only fair because I've read all of yours. 😀

I'm 28 years old and graduated from undergrad back in 2003 with a cum gpa of 2.55 and a science gpa of 2.71. My desire to become a physician came about after seeing loved ones passing away from horrible diseases and knowing that even with all the money in the world can't bring back good health. So knowing that I'll probably have a higher chance of getting hit by lightning than get into medical school with those grades prompted me to retake classes that i did poorly in while working a full time job to support myself. I basically took one class a semester and studying for the MCAT on an on and off basis (whenever I had the time and wasn't dead sleeeeeepy)

Fast forward a few years... My cum GPA is exactly a 3.00, my science gpa is a 3.70, and my mcat is a 38M. (I'll be applying to D.O schools because I know MD schools won't even take a dump on my application). People have said that some apply to DO because they can't get into MD (which is in my case), but to me the letters behind my name doesn't matter as long as I have the legal ability to treat my patients in the full spectrum of medicine. The most important aspect is that I'll be able to fulfill my dream. I wouldn't care if the title is XYZ as long as I'm in the same place and practicing the same medicine.

To sum it up, I was stupid and lazy during my UG years and now I'm thirsty to be somebody! I'll be applying in 2009 and I hope I get in! Thank you all for sharing your journey and I hope we might meet someday! 🙂

 

[DrMidlife]

My cum GPA is exactly a 3.00, my science gpa is a 3.70, and my mcat is a 38M. (I'll be applying to D.O schools because I know MD schools won't even take a dump on my application).

Unless you're in California, apply to your regional public MD schools. It's worth trying: these schools typically have a legislated responsibility to consider ALL residents/regionals who apply, and/or do an eyeball screen on local apps that don't pass the autoscreen.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Vihsadas]

Hi All,

I found this site via google while searching for a common ground for people with low gpas wanting to get into medical school. This thread gives me hope and also knowing that I'm not the only one going through this tough journey. Thank you.

Anyhow, I'd like to share my journey with you since it's only fair because I've read all of yours. 😀

I'm 28 years old and graduated from undergrad back in 2003 with a cum gpa of 2.55 and a science gpa of 2.71. My desire to become a physician came about after seeing loved ones passing away from horrible diseases and knowing that even with all the money in the world can't bring back good health. So knowing that I'll probably have a higher chance of getting hit by lightning than get into medical school with those grades prompted me to retake classes that i did poorly in while working a full time job to support myself. I basically took one class a semester and studying for the MCAT on an on and off basis (whenever I had the time and wasn't dead sleeeeeepy)

Fast forward a few years... My cum GPA is exactly a 3.00, my science gpa is a 3.70, and my mcat is a 38M. (I'll be applying to D.O schools because I know MD schools won't even take a dump on my application). People have said that some apply to DO because they can't get into MD (which is in my case), but to me the letters behind my name doesn't matter as long as I have the legal ability to treat my patients in the full spectrum of medicine. The most important aspect is that I'll be able to fulfill my dream. I wouldn't care if the title is XYZ as long as I'm in the same place and practicing the same medicine.

To sum it up, I was stupid and lazy during my UG years and now I'm thirsty to be somebody! I'll be applying in 2009 and I hope I get in! Thank you all for sharing your journey and I hope we might meet someday! 🙂

Do not sell yourself short. You should apply to MD schools broadly and you might be surprised what you end up with. If you hit 25-40 schools, I'd bet that you'd interview at a few and land an accept at at least one if you have decent social skills.

 

[orbitaloverlap]

I'm worried about how SMPs will look at some of my individual grades. For example I have an F in physics 1, which I then retook and got a D. I know that's miserable, but can I still make it without getting rejected on these things? I do have a legitimate personal story that goes with the bad grades.

 

[DrMidlife]

I'm worried about how SMPs will look at some of my individual grades. For example I have an F in physics 1, which I then retook and got a D. I know that's miserable, but can I still make it without getting rejected on these things? I do have a legitimate personal story that goes with the bad grades.

Don't worry about how an SMP is going to view it - worry about whether at the start of an SMP you're ready to go on to med school. And you're not getting into med school with a D in a prereq. Fix everything fixable BEFORE you start an SMP.

 

[ashah0224]

Hi. I graduated in May of 2007 from a tech school with a B.S. in Chemical Biology (basically Biochem). My gpa really sucked - a 2.5 . I had alot of personal and family issues which hurt how well I did.

I did some 350 hours of volunteer work in the hospital during highschool but not much during college. I had some other volunteer experience, research experience, and some work too.

I didnt take my MCATs because I wasnt ready. I did not want to take the exam and have a bad score hurt my chances of getting in. And i'm 23 - what I am interested in would take me a long time to pursue, if I can even get into med school in the states.

Coming out of college, i worked for 7 months - being pressured by my mom because i HAD to start paying for my loans.

I looked into everything and figured I had chances between an SMP or a carib med school. I decided to try a semester in the carb because a friend suggested it. Long behold, I'm in stressful situation here too. I'm struggling with 3 classes - anat, physio, and embryo.

I'm still being optimistic - at 23 soon to be 24. I realize a year and a half of my time has been wasted on things other than MCAT preparation and Undergrad GPA repair, and I'm not sure how that will affect my chances for admission to any american MD or DO school. Lately I've gotten a serious case of self-doubt. I've been told it has been done, and that I can still do it. I'm not in crazy DEEP debt ........... yet. I know what I want, and I know why I want it.

I hope somebody has some advice or ideas for me. Thanks for your time and help!

~AJS

 

[EpsonMonkey]

Hi. I graduated in May of 2007 from a tech school with a B.S. in Chemical Biology (basically Biochem). My gpa really sucked - a 2.5 . I had alot of personal and family issues which hurt how well I did.

I did some 350 hours of volunteer work in the hospital during highschool but not much during college. I had some other volunteer experience, research experience, and some work too.

I didnt take my MCATs because I wasnt ready. I did not want to take the exam and have a bad score hurt my chances of getting in. And i'm 23 - what I am interested in would take me a long time to pursue, if I can even get into med school in the states.

Coming out of college, i worked for 7 months - being pressured by my mom because i HAD to start paying for my loans.

I looked into everything and figured I had chances between an SMP or a carib med school. I decided to try a semester in the carb because a friend suggested it. Long behold, I'm in stressful situation here too. I'm struggling with 3 classes - anat, physio, and embryo.

I'm still being optimistic - at 23 soon to be 24. I realize a year and a half of my time has been wasted on things other than MCAT preparation and Undergrad GPA repair, and I'm not sure how that will affect my chances for admission to any american MD or DO school. Lately I've gotten a serious case of self-doubt. I've been told it has been done, and that I can still do it. I'm not in crazy DEEP debt ........... yet. I know what I want, and I know why I want it.

I hope somebody has some advice or ideas for me. Thanks for your time and help!

~AJS

AJS: Don't worry! Just grease up that brain of yours and keep on trucking. I graduated in 2003 with a poor gpa (read my story located a few posts up). I'm now 28 and have a cum gpa of 3.0, a sci gpa of 3.7 and a MCAT of 38. Don't give up and believe in yourself. I've gone to bed many nights in the past feeling depressed, hopeless and really hated myself for my past mistakes... but that light of hope never went out no matter how bad I felt. You're young and still have a whole life ahead of you. Take care friend!

 

[EpsonMonkey]

Thank you all for your kind words! I will keep you guys posted on my application process when I start next year. Thank you guys!

 

[Ty Webb]

Hi. I graduated in May of 2007 from a tech school with a B.S. in Chemical Biology (basically Biochem). My gpa really sucked - a 2.5 . I had alot of personal and family issues which hurt how well I did.

I did some 350 hours of volunteer work in the hospital during highschool but not much during college. I had some other volunteer experience, research experience, and some work too.

I didnt take my MCATs because I wasnt ready. I did not want to take the exam and have a bad score hurt my chances of getting in. And i'm 23 - what I am interested in would take me a long time to pursue, if I can even get into med school in the states.

Coming out of college, i worked for 7 months - being pressured by my mom because i HAD to start paying for my loans.

I looked into everything and figured I had chances between an SMP or a carib med school. I decided to try a semester in the carb because a friend suggested it. Long behold, I'm in stressful situation here too. I'm struggling with 3 classes - anat, physio, and embryo.

I'm still being optimistic - at 23 soon to be 24. I realize a year and a half of my time has been wasted on things other than MCAT preparation and Undergrad GPA repair, and I'm not sure how that will affect my chances for admission to any american MD or DO school. Lately I've gotten a serious case of self-doubt. I've been told it has been done, and that I can still do it. I'm not in crazy DEEP debt ........... yet. I know what I want, and I know why I want it.

I hope somebody has some advice or ideas for me. Thanks for your time and help!

~AJS

I would quit taking classes: it seems you haven't turned things around yet, and the last thing you want to do is further damage your record.
I would suggest taking some time off of school, especially since you're struggling, and start studying for the MCAT.

If you can find a way, rid yourself of all other major time obligations and start studying 10-12 hours a day for the MCAT as soon as the semester ends. Test yourself every couple weeks with a practice test to gauge your progress. I'd say keep this up until you're scoring high 30s, and then take the test.

The constant studying will give you a goal to work towards, and all the self-doubt should begin melting away as your score continues to improve. If you work hard enough, you should have a great MCAT score as well as a new-found ability to apply yourself to your studies. From there, you can begin worrying about everyhing else, but you'll have the confidence necessary to take it on now that you have something really positive in your application.