The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

[shoutgraffiti]

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Hey everyone!
First time posting here! 🙂 I'm an English/urban psych/pre-med student with minors in writing and british studies; I've completed all but organic chem and physics II of pre-med and half my psych major. I'm 22 aaand have a year left, plan on taking my MCATs within it.

To get to the point, I messed up super badly my sophomore year. I'll be graduating with a cum GPA 3.3 but my pre-med GPA is abysmal (probably around the low 2's) so my chances of MD seem nonexistant. Outside of school I've done volunteering, been published, participated in research, got fluent in 4 languages (and I'm including that because JHU's apps ask about languages) and have traveled a good bit... but assuming I score between 29-32 on my MCATs, what are my chances of getting into ANY program? My chances for everything seems low when I look at my pre-med GPA; is an SMP, DO or Caribbean school feasible or do I need to find and get reeeaaaally lucky with a postbacc program?

 

[Perrotfish]

To get to the point, I messed up super badly my sophomore year. I'll be graduating with a cum GPA 3.3 but my pre-med GPA is abysmal (probably around the low 2's) so my chances of MD seem nonexistant. Outside of school I've done volunteering, been published, participated in research, got fluent in 4 languages (and I'm including that because JHU's apps ask about languages) and have traveled a good bit... but assuming I score between 29-32 on my MCATs, what are my chances of getting into ANY program? My chances for everything seems low when I look at my pre-med GPA; is an SMP, DO or Caribbean school feasible or do I need to find and get reeeaaaally lucky with a postbacc program?

1) Yes you have a chance. You could either do an SMP, or you could just take more science classes and get As, which would probably bump up both your sci GPA and your cumulative GPA (which is also below average) enough for at least DO schools. There is no 'pre-med' GPA, there is a cumulative GPA and a BCPM GPA. As long as you've received a C or better in all your premed courses, all you need to do is take more science courses to get that BCPM up, which shouldn't take long since you've only taken the bare minimum of classes

2) BUT that's assuming a grood/great MCAT. Big assumption. Study hard, take a formal study course (Kaplan, Berkeley, Princeton Review), and generally prepare to lose a semester over that test. Even then, don't take the real test until your consistenly scoring what you want on the practice exams

3) Even without GPA improvement or a high MCAT, the Caribbean is ALWAYS an option. What is not always an option is graduating, or landing a residency. The Caribbean takes a no second chances attitude towards medical education: if you fail a course or a step exam, even once, you're probably gone. And even if you graduate there's no guarentee you're going to get a US residency.

Truth be told, if you want to go anywhere but the Caribbean, chances are you will be spending at least one year after you have/should have graduated from college, maybe two or three, improving your app for medical school. It's definitely possible, though, and many people have done it before.

Good luck.

 

[shoutgraffiti]

1) Yes you have a chance. You could either do an SMP, or you could just take more science classes and get As, which would probably bump up both your sci GPA and your cumulative GPA (which is also below average) enough for at least DO schools. There is no 'pre-med' GPA, there is a cumulative GPA and a BCPM GPA. As long as you've received a C or better in all your premed courses, all you need to do is take more science courses to get that BCPM up, which shouldn't take long since you've only taken the bare minimum of classes

2) BUT that's assuming a grood/great MCAT. Big assumption. Study hard, take a formal study course (Kaplan, Berkeley, Princeton Review), and generally prepare to lose a semester over that test. Even then, don't take the real test until your consistenly scoring what you want on the practice exams

3) Even without GPA improvement or a high MCAT, the Caribbean is ALWAYS an option. What is not always an option is graduating, or landing a residency. The Caribbean takes a no second chances attitude towards medical education: if you fail a course or a step exam, even once, you're probably gone. And even if you graduate there's no guarentee you're going to get a US residency.

Truth be told, if you want to go anywhere but the Caribbean, chances are you will be spending at least one year after you have/should have graduated from college, maybe two or three, improving your app for medical school. It's definitely possible, though, and many people have done it before.

Good luck.

Thanks for the info. I repeated several of those core classes right after I bombed them and bombed them again -- does the BCPM calculate ALL classes like the AMACS or the replacements? And do you think graduate school is a legit way of improving my app for med school or would it be better if I straight-up go for post-bac?

 

[Perrotfish]

Thanks for the info. I repeated several of those core classes right after I bombed them and bombed them again -- does the BCPM calculate ALL classes like the AMACS or the replacements? And do you think graduate school is a legit way of improving my app for med school or would it be better if I straight-up go for post-bac?

The BCPM calculates all retakes as seperate courses. So if you took a 4 credit class 3 times, getting an F, a D, and a C, the AMCAS BCPM would record 12 credits of BCPM credits: 4 credits of F, 4 of D, and 4 of C.

The experience of posters on this board is that the only graduate school that significantly improves your medical school app is a special masters program: a program designed to get you into medical school. Something like an MPH doesn't actually hurt, but it doesn't particularly help either. You can read more about it on this board. So your best bet is either more undergrad, or an SMP, or maybe one and then the other.

Before you , though, are you sure you've resolved whatever problem caused you to fail the courses in the first place? Screwing up your premed classes twice in a row is a pretty good predictor that you're not going to get a 30 on the MCAT. A lot of people who did well in their premed courses can't pass this test. Just make sure you aren't wasting years of your life and tens of thousands of dollars on something that you're either not good at or don't like.

Good luck, in any event.

 

[Xcited392]

I repeated several of those core classes right after I bombed them and bombed them again --

Since we're on the subject of retakes. Should I consider retaking a class that I already retook? The first time I took Chem, I didn't do so well. Second time, did slightly better, but it wasn't an A. Should I consider retaking it a third time? I know it will probably look bad, but is it worth it, even if I don't want to DO?

 

[shoutgraffiti]

The BCPM calculates all retakes as seperate courses. So if you took a 4 credit class 3 times, getting an F, a D, and a C, the AMCAS BCPM would record 12 credits of BCPM credits: 4 credits of F, 4 of D, and 4 of C.

The experience of posters on this board is that the only graduate school that significantly improves your medical school app is a special masters program: a program designed to get you into medical school. Something like an MPH doesn't actually hurt, but it doesn't particularly help either. You can read more about it on this board. So your best bet is either more undergrad, or an SMP, or maybe one and then the other.

Before you , though, are you sure you've resolved whatever problem caused you to fail the courses in the first place? Screwing up your premed classes twice in a row is a pretty good predictor that you're not going to get a 30 on the MCAT. A lot of people who did well in their premed courses can't pass this test. Just make sure you aren't wasting years of your life and tens of thousands of dollars on something that you're either not good at or don't like.

Good luck, in any event.

Okay, then yeah, my BCPM is a painful 2.3. I still have a year left, I'll study hard for my MCATs and see how that goes. I had a lot of family problems that hit me hard my sophomore year (which was when I bombed all those classes) and other things happened that recently just got laid to rest so my grades are already improving... aaaaand I'll consider all my options after that, since I want to work in the sciences even if I don't end up continuing to pursue med school after finishing undergrad. Thank you so much for the help, I appreciate it a lot!

 

[UTsksk]

Hey,

I'm currently a junior and I've calculated that when I graduate, I'll end up in the 3.3-3.4 gpa range with possibly a slightly higher science gpa. I haven't taken the MCAT due to that I haven't taken physics and I don't see myself fitting it into my schedule since I am slightly behind due to transfer of universities. I was kind of just wondering what should I do because I HAVE to graduate in the normal 4 year span so my loan can turn into a grant. Don't really feel I'm in the desperation area of a SMP, but then I might be wrong. Would it be best to graduate and then go back to take physics, upper division sciences and retake some of my C pre-reqs. I'm pretty sure that I'll have a decent MCAT because I'll be studying until I'm satisfied with it.

I kind of figured my time line would be something like this...
graduate-->go back and finish physics prereqs-->study mcat and take it-->apply if i have a strong mcat-->if i don't get in, which is likely, try for smp and reapply

any suggestions? Thanks

 

[funwithpuzzles]

I'm sure my answer is in this thread somewhere, but I can't find it. I tried searching "Post bacc courses from years ago"...and no success.

I've just taken the post-bacc prereq courses carte at my state school (3.5)...but I took courses post-bacc 15 years ago (education, physics, botany) and didn't do well (2.5).

I believe those grades will be combined in my Post-bacc GPA, right? Even though there was so much time in between?

Am I looking at a SMP?

Thanks,

FunWithPuzzles

 

[DrMidlife]

Hey,

I'm currently a junior and I've calculated that when I graduate, I'll end up in the 3.3-3.4 gpa range with possibly a slightly higher science gpa. I haven't taken the MCAT due to that I haven't taken physics and I don't see myself fitting it into my schedule since I am slightly behind due to transfer of universities. I was kind of just wondering what should I do because I HAVE to graduate in the normal 4 year span so my loan can turn into a grant. Don't really feel I'm in the desperation area of a SMP, but then I might be wrong. Would it be best to graduate and then go back to take physics, upper division sciences and retake some of my C pre-reqs. I'm pretty sure that I'll have a decent MCAT because I'll be studying until I'm satisfied with it.

I kind of figured my time line would be something like this...
graduate-->go back and finish physics prereqs-->study mcat and take it-->apply if i have a strong mcat-->if i don't get in, which is likely, try for smp and reapply

any suggestions? Thanks

I'm hoping that your user name means you're in Texas, because that's a terrific state in which to try all this. Cheap and plentiful med ed there.

Nobody's going to look at you sideways for taking physics after you graduate. The biggest number on your med school app will be your cumulative overall GPA, and the next biggest numbers will be your cumulative science GPAs and MCAT. Postbac grades get rolled into those cumulative numbers, as long as you're not a grad student when you take postbac classes. (After the big fat numbers are presented, then there are year-by-year breakdowns and all the data you can chew.)

Retaking courses that you didn't do well in will help you if you want to go to DO school. DO schools calculate your GPA without retaken classes; MD schools don't do this. I've been advised that retaking a C doesn't prove as much as taking a harder class and getting an A. Some people feel strongly that you want a B in every prereq, but I think this is fungible. Personally I think a 3.3/3.4 is strong enough for MD schools, just barely, assuming the rest of your app is solid.

I'd suggest that you take your time, and try to find an interesting job to do for a couple of years while you take physics and the MCAT and apply. Make sure you work on letters of recommendation NOW, and make sure you start clocking volunteer hours. Plan on MCAT prep being a difficult part time job.

Best of luck to you, and keep us posted.

 

[DrMidlife]

I'm sure my answer is in this thread somewhere, but I can't find it. I tried searching "Post bacc courses from years ago"...and no success.

I've just taken the post-bacc prereq courses carte at my state school (3.5)...but I took courses post-bacc 15 years ago (education, physics, botany) and didn't do well (2.5).

I believe those grades will be combined in my Post-bacc GPA, right? Even though there was so much time in between?

Am I looking at a SMP?

Thanks,

FunWithPuzzles

Yep, you have to look at your cumulative numbers. That means it's time to make a spreadsheet. No whining: I had to do this for 24 years of undergrad coursework. 125 courses and counting.

Once you know your cumulative totals (overall and science), you're set to make some decisions. You can always take more undergrad coursework, and in my view it's always better to do more undergrad than an SMP as long as you can budge your average.

My personal thresholds:
- cumulative uGPAs must be over 3.1 for minimum comfort
- cuGPA 3.1+, MCAT 27+, apply to DO school only
- cuGPA 3.1+, MCAT 30+, apply to DO school and state MD schools
- cuGPA 3.4+, MCAT 27+, apply to DO school and state MD schools
- cuGPA 3.4+, MCAT 30+, apply anywhere you want
- if you can't get your cuGPA over 3.1, get it over 3.0, and get an MCAT well over 30, and do an SMP

Hope this helps. Best of luck to you.

 

[MD33]

Hate to pile on here, but what are my chances?

Graduated Boston College 2006, history major, only 3.15 GPA but with some upward trend. Car accident fall 2007, operations and whatnot, applied to programs that winter/spring, started postbac at Harvard Extension in the fall. Two flat As in math courses at UMass-Boston over last summer, A and an A/A- (in flux) in first semester Chem/Physics at Harv Ext. I calculate that if I do the rest of the Harvard program at 3.8-3.9, I'll end up somewhere in the high 3.3 range overall, 3.6 or so sciences. I've always been able to do well on standardized tests (1470 SAT) so I figure I should be able to do well on the MCAT and have something of an interesting story getting me interested in medicine, with some strong recs from rehab doctors, politicians coming. Looking to do volunteer program at Brigham and Women's in Boston and trying to get on the Frmaingham Heart Study, but basically I need to know what kind of chances this leaves me with. Thanks

 

[drizzt3117]

The experience of posters on this board is that the only graduate school that significantly improves your medical school app is a special masters program: a program designed to get you into medical school. Something like an MPH doesn't actually hurt, but it doesn't particularly help either. You can read more about it on this board. So your best bet is either more undergrad, or an SMP, or maybe one and then the other.

I'm beginning to doubt this conventional wisdom a bit. I noticed about ten people in my class have MPHs that they took after undergrad to help their application. My program has a heavy emphasis on public health, but I doubt it's that unique.

 

[GloryofGreece]

Hi guys....

I am a college dropout....long story....basically I was at my state uni for 5 years and left without a degree 😱 My gpa there was about 3.02. Majored in something I dont really like...informatics. I kinda left for personal and financial reasons, I was close to get the degree and could have gotten it but chose not to do for financial aid (cuz I plan on coming back to school.)

Really after 1 year off working, I start work fulltime and going to community college to retake classes. I got 3.83 (retook ochem, and took calculus-based physics, diffy Q, calculus) from 2 year of cc. Then i transferred into another state U, start to major in chemical engineering and minor in biochemistry.
I got 3.9 first semester. Now in second semester, I just realize engineering is a great backup career, but I can hardly hope to sustain such high GPA....
in case that I dont get in first try outta of school...(btw my gpa now is 3.2...)
Should I look into SMPs? What should i do!

 

[GloryofGreece]

Hey guys,
this is like a call for help..just kinda bummed with life at the moment and lost so thought i'd share.. let me your feedback..any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. just want to know if i am doing something right in my life or not.
ok here it goes ...
i am a senior and going to be graduating with a BS in Biology. My overall gpa is 2.64. first time mcat was 18n(argh)..retaking it again on march 28th I have volunteer experience of 2 years at a hosptial within the ER and the Maternity ward. I have a shadow experience for 3 months with an internal medicine doctor. I have work experience from a learning hospital in UK for 6 weeks.. experience in psych ward though. I have volunteer experience for about a 1 year now at a day care which takes care of special needs kids. i am lab researching at my college with a bio professor. I manage a movie theatre part time.

Low GPA from my side was just over confidence for the freshmen year than I had family crises sohpmore year...3rd year was just too late to recover and i was just emotional broken thanks to the wonder NOT supporting family.. this year fall semester i got straight A's and made it to the deans list.. SO HAPPY FOR THAT!!...

i know i dont have a shot at medical schools this year.. so i am looking at post baccs. not sure if i will get in but since they are ther to help out then why not help me out.... i am looking at drexel(ims,dpms),temple,mount sinai PREP, UMDNJ certificate program and masters(applying to both)..pcom certificate program. from..i want to apply to as many as possible to i know that i tried hard and my best..


idk guys just some encouraging words and any suggestions or helpful hints.. would be great

dont ever give up!!! You still got a shot, if u keep up the work!


I dont know if u guys watch Nadal playing tennis. The more he is behind, the harder he fights. I guess we just need a little nadal in us to go through the journey to med school

 

[alex101]

ah...finally a place i can just let go and actually ask and state the truth..

so here it is..

im a recent graduate. bio major/ psych minor....

okay first thing first.. my cummulative gpa is about 2.48.. my bio is about 2.4 something..

and my psychology is like 2.9 or so... i took a lot of psych classes like literally 4 classes and 1 lab from getting a degree in that..
im just so confused right now..im kicking myself because im like why didnt i declare that as another major so i can stay and work more on my gpa.. i've always had alright grades..(Bs and one C) on my psych courses...

i was wondering since i graduated in january..is there a way for me to go back and get a degree in that ?? if i take say 7 psych classes and get As(which i honestly think i can do..i love pysch..hence taking more than i needed for minor) in them that will bring my gpa up a little bit to maybe a high 2.6 or even 2.7

what good would that do?

okay if that doesnt work....what do you think would be the next step for me?.....if i take the psychology classes and get a 2.7 cumm...i wonder if i can pursue the psychology route....

if i chase this med school fantasy(it seems lately) of mine do i definetly have to do a post-bacc on the biology major or something else?
cuz quite frankly i freaking hated my biology major..why on earth did i stick wit it i have no idea...im still kicking myself for it.



getting out its like my head is just spinning in different direction with that feeling of "wtf just happened?" 🙁

 

[Perrotfish]

ah...finally a place i can just let go and actually ask and state the truth..

so here it is..

im a recent graduate. bio major/ psych minor....

okay first thing first.. my cummulative gpa is about 2.48.. my bio is about 2.4 something..

and my psychology is like 2.9 or so... i took a lot of psych classes like literally 4 classes and 1 lab from getting a degree in that..
im just so confused right now..im kicking myself because im like why didnt i declare that as another major so i can stay and work more on my gpa.. i've always had alright grades..(Bs and one C) on my psych courses...

i was wondering since i graduated in january..is there a way for me to go back and get a degree in that ?? if i take say 7 psych classes and get As(which i honestly think i can do..i love pysch..hence taking more than i needed for minor) in them that will bring my gpa up a little bit to maybe a high 2.6 or even 2.7

what good would that do?

okay if that doesnt work....what do you think would be the next step for me?.....if i take the psychology classes and get a 2.7 cumm...i wonder if i can pursue the psychology route....

if i chase this med school fantasy(it seems lately) of mine do i definetly have to do a post-bacc on the biology major or something else?
cuz quite frankly i freaking hated my biology major..why on earth did i stick wit it i have no idea...im still kicking myself for it.



getting out its like my head is just spinning in different direction with that feeling of "wtf just happened

Alright, yeah, your situation is pretty bad. You have a few options though:

1) Take more classes to get to a 3.0 (maybe you could squeeze by with a 2.8 if you can get a truely stellar MCAT). Then do an SMP and kill it. Then go to medical school.

2) Retake classes to get to a 3.2, with grade replacement. Get an above average MCAT. Go to a DO school (they accept grade replacement).

3) Go to the Caribbean. You'll still need a good MCAT to get into a top 4 school.

Option #3 is probably your best bet at this point. The other two options might take an extra 3-5 years, whereas you might be able to start at the islands in January of 2010. The problem, though, it that a lot of students from Carib schools either fail out ,or graduate but can't get a residency. You need to be REALLY confident that you've fixed the problem that got you the sub 2.5 GPA, and that you're not going to have any problems with medical school's standardized tests (the USMLEs) or you're going to wash out and be burdened with a ton of debt.

Anyway, good luck, you can do it, many have before.

 

[alex101]

Alright, yeah, your situation is pretty bad. You have a few options though:

1) Take more classes to get to a 3.0 (maybe you could squeeze by with a 2.8 if you can get a truely stellar MCAT). Then do an SMP and kill it. Then go to medical school.

2) Retake classes to get to a 3.2, with grade replacement. Get an above average MCAT. Go to a DO school (they accept grade replacement).

3) Go to the Caribbean. You'll still need a good MCAT to get into a top 4 school.

Option #3 is probably your best bet at this point. The other two options might take an extra 3-5 years, whereas you might be able to start at the islands in January of 2010. The problem, though, it that a lot of students from Carib schools either fail out ,or graduate but can't get a residency. You need to be REALLY confident that you've fixed the problem that got you the sub 2.5 GPA, and that you're not going to have any problems with medical school's standardized tests (the USMLEs) or you're going to wash out and be burdened with a ton of debt.

Anyway, good luck, you can do it, many have before.

thanks soooo much for your advice...i really appreciate it.....

thats the thing u know..i dont know if i can truly say w/o lying to myself that i've "fixed" the problem that resulted with the low gpa..
i think my issue right now is confidence in my capabilities.. i went from a really good student in high school to being absolutely average in college(and its not even becuase i was partying and stuff i was just misearable there but somehow refused to drop out)..that just killed my belief in self.
and in the back of my mind im feeling like going to do this med school thing right away(carribean) is just a way for me to convince myself that im capable....and its a stupid game to play especially at freaking med school...(this doesnt mean i dont have the desire to do it..but i think doing it right away is probably the wrong decision)

thats one of the reasons why i want to explore this psychology option........maybe i didnt do well in biology becuase i had very little passion in it...and i love psych so maybe if take the classes and i do great in them it'll just build me up to know that i can do mUCH more ..along with that retake a couple of the bio classes that i messed up

i've been debating the DO route ...seems like the more plausible one..

i was more so confused if its possible after you graduate to switch a minor to a major if you were a few credits from getting it anyway.....


ill post some other queries later on..but i really appreciate your help..

 

[KiwiBruin]

thanks soooo much for your advice...i really appreciate it.....

thats the thing u know..i dont know if i can truly say w/o lying to myself that i've "fixed" the problem that resulted with the low gpa..
i think my issue right now is confidence in my capabilities.. i went from a really good student in high school to being absolutely average in college(and its not even becuase i was partying and stuff i was just misearable there but somehow refused to drop out)..that just killed my belief in self.
and in the back of my mind im feeling like going to do this med school thing right away(carribean) is just a way for me to convince myself that im capable....and its a stupid game to play especially at freaking med school...(this doesnt mean i dont have the desire to do it..but i think doing it right away is probably the wrong decision)

thats one of the reasons why i want to explore this psychology option........maybe i didnt do well in biology becuase i had very little passion in it...and i love psych so maybe if take the classes and i do great in them it'll just build me up to know that i can do mUCH more ..along with that retake a couple of the bio classes that i messed up

i've been debating the DO route ...seems like the more plausible one..

i was more so confused if its possible after you graduate to switch a minor to a major if you were a few credits from getting it anyway.....


ill post some other queries later on..but i really appreciate your help..

I would atleast take psycho-biology classes to see if you have fixed your problem and can take the courseload. I wouldn't take just psychology classes because they aren't included in your science GPA. Also, if you want to take classes think about retaking your biology classes that you did badly in. (so they can get grade replaced if you don't mind DO) This will improve your GPA a lot faster than taking more new classes. Good luck~

 

[not so calm now]

........maybe i didnt do well in biology becuase i had very little passion in it..

You do realize what classes you take in med school, right?

 

[Perrotfish]

i've been debating the DO route ...seems like the more plausible one..

Not that DO is easier. They still have an average of a a 27 and a 3.4, and for their matriculants, and you still need to pass the boards (or the COMLEX) to get through it.

i was more so confused if its possible after you graduate to switch a minor to a major if you were a few credits from getting it anyway.....

This depends on your undergrad. You can definitely do it at mine, and I know of schools that won't let you come back once you graduate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101
........maybe i didnt do well in biology becuase i had very little passion in it..

You do realize what classes you take in med school, right?

This is an excellent point, BTW. Medicine is pretty much based in biology. If you have a passion for 'helping others' a masters in social work, or a PhD in psychology, might be more your style. Actually if you really loved your psyche classes clinical psychologist might be a good career for you.

 

[NeuroAP86]

Hey everyone, thought i'd throw my stats out here and see what you guys think:

Just graduated from undergrad with:

3.32 Cummulative GPA (last 44 credits: 3.75) => upward trend for last 3 semesters

3.27 Science GPA

100 hours of shadowing in ER, Surgery, Cardiology, Primary Care, etc.

1 year of nurse aide experience at nursing home(getting re-certified in the next couple weeks, eventually working again in hospital)

70 hours of volunteer for heart foundation/hospital(some hospice)

50 hours volunteering in radiology dept at hosiptal

Good Recommendation from committee at school as well as some doctors I shadowed

Taking the MCAT in April (1st time taken: 22 (8B/7V/7P, only had a month to study but I will rock it this time)

What are my chances of getting into A medical school in the US? would prefer to stay in IL

 

[Perrotfish]

Hey everyone, thought i'd throw my stats out here and see what you guys think:

Just graduated from undergrad with:

3.32 Cummulative GPA (last 44 credits: 3.75) => upward trend for last 3 semesters

3.27 Science GPA

100 hours of shadowing in ER, Surgery, Cardiology, Primary Care, etc.

1 year of nurse aide experience at nursing home(getting re-certified in the next couple weeks, eventually working again in hospital)

70 hours of volunteer for heart foundation/hospital(some hospice)

50 hours volunteering in radiology dept at hosiptal

Good Recommendation from committee at school as well as some doctors I shadowed

Taking the MCAT in April (1st time taken: 22 (8B/7V/7P, only had a month to study but I will rock it this time)

What are my chances of getting into A medical school in the US?

If you shadow a DO and drastically improve the MCAT you have a decent shot at a DO school. MD schools are probably out of reach without either a year of postbac work or an SMP. If you want to do the application improvment it should only take a year (and since you're too late for next year's class you might as well spend the year in an SMP anyway) Everything but the Caribbean is out of reach if the MCAT score doesn't improve by a lot.

would prefer to stay in IL

Hope that works out, but apply brodly and expect to have to move.

Good luck

 

[fried rice]

Hi, I'm new to this site and I figured I'd start things off by presenting my situation. I like to do so now and again on the internet because it's fairly anonymous and my situation is a source of embarrassment and worry for me; I find that typing everything out helps to keep things in perspective and allow my to better prioritize.

I'm currently a sophomore at Louisiana State University. When I entered college, I thought I was hot ****. I was a National Merit Scholar, I was one of the top students at my high school and I had always assumed (at least I'd been told) that college would be a better fit for me as far as a learning environment. I decided to major in Biochemistry, because I thought maybe if I decided I didn't want to be a physician, I would be interested in entering the pharmaceuticals industry.

Fast forward to the present, I'm currently sitting at a 2.87 GPA. After my first year in college, I had a 2.61 GPA, with an F in General Chemistry II. I've changed my major to Biological Sciences and there's a good chance I'll change again to Philosophy before I graduate. I've fallen far below my own expectations in each semester so far, and I'm probably headed for that same fate this semester. It's been a fitful struggle for me to develop the determination and study habits required for success in college; I've had a difficult time with any material that I don't find intuitive (Calculus and Inorganic/Organic Chemistry) as I fall miserably short in preparation for difficult exams. To this day, I often find myself reading forums such as this and worrying over my future plans when I should be focusing on impending schoolwork.

The good news is that I'm making a small bit of progress this semester. I've begun volunteering at a local hospital, and on top of my current campus job I've applied for a position at that hospital. I've willed myself to prepare a bit better for my more difficult classes this semester, and I find the other two classes to be very intuitive. Standardized tests have always been my strength, so I'm hopeful that with a fair amount of time spent practicing for the MCAT I'll be able to produce a competitive score eventually.

 

[KLR214]

Hi, I'm new to this site and I figured I'd start things off by presenting my situation. I like to do so now and again on the internet because it's fairly anonymous and my situation is a source of embarrassment and worry for me; I find that typing everything out helps to keep things in perspective and allow my to better prioritize.

I'm currently a sophomore at Louisiana State University. When I entered college, I thought I was hot ****. I was a National Merit Scholar, I was one of the top students at my high school and I had always assumed (at least I'd been told) that college would be a better fit for me as far as a learning environment. I decided to major in Biochemistry, because I thought maybe if I decided I didn't want to be a physician, I would be interested in entering the pharmaceuticals industry.

Fast forward to the present, I'm currently sitting at a 2.87 GPA. After my first year in college, I had a 2.61 GPA, with an F in General Chemistry II. I've changed my major to Biological Sciences and there's a good chance I'll change again to Philosophy before I graduate. I've fallen far below my own expectations in each semester so far, and I'm probably headed for that same fate this semester. It's been a fitful struggle for me to develop the determination and study habits required for success in college; I've had a difficult time with any material that I don't find intuitive (Calculus and Inorganic/Organic Chemistry) as I fall miserably short in preparation for difficult exams. To this day, I often find myself reading forums such as this and worrying over my future plans when I should be focusing on impending schoolwork.

The good news is that I'm making a small bit of progress this semester. I've begun volunteering at a local hospital, and on top of my current campus job I've applied for a position at that hospital. I've willed myself to prepare a bit better for my more difficult classes this semester, and I find the other two classes to be very intuitive. Standardized tests have always been my strength, so I'm hopeful that with a fair amount of time spent practicing for the MCAT I'll be able to produce a competitive score eventually.

The good news about your situation is that you are still in college and best of all you are only a sophomore. Most of the people here already graduated and are trying to fix their grades. You have a really good chance of correcting this issue. You know where your weaknesses lie and you should focus on how to make them better. Employing better study habits should be at the top of your list. With biology, its not just memorization, you need to understand the concepts of what you are studying. You have probably heard of these study tips but i guess it wont hurt to hear them again.
1. Take good and careful notes(listen for the main points/ideas)
2. Read over your notes after each class, make the necessary correction/clarify any scribbling.
3.Put the main ideas on note cards and simply take a quick look at them once or twice a week.
4. Study ahead of time. DO NOT CRAM. Give yourself a week or a week and a half before your exam. One thing I find useful is, looking over the prof's old exams.
Don't give up just yet . I am sure many of us here wish we were still sophomores(I'd correct a lot of mistakes). Like you said , you are making progress this semester and that's of course a very good thing, so keep up the good work and stay focus. With the volunteering and working try not to put too much hours into that, as you really need to focus on your classes. Your hours will accumulate by the time you graduate so put more time into getting A's and B's in your sciences. I also think you need to take organic chemistry II over again and you should do so soon enough while the little you learned is still fresh in your mind.
Good Luck.👍🙂

 

[fried rice]

The good news about your situation is that you are still in college and best of all you are only a sophomore. Most of the people here already graduated and are trying to fix their grades. You have a really good chance of correcting this issue. You know where your weaknesses lie and you should focus on how to make them better. Employing better study habits should be at the top of your list. With biology, its not just memorization, you need to understand the concepts of what you are studying. You have probably heard of these study tips but i guess it wont hurt to hear them again.
1. Take good and careful notes(listen for the main points/ideas)
2. Read over your notes after each class, make the necessary correction/clarify any scribbling.
3.Put the main ideas on note cards and simply take a quick look at them once or twice a week.
4. Study ahead of time. DO NOT CRAM. Give yourself a week or a week and a half before your exam. One thing I find useful is, looking over the prof's old exams.
Don't give up just yet . I am sure many of us here wish we were still sophomores(I'd correct a lot of mistakes). Like you said , you are making progress this semester and that's of course a very good thing, so keep up the good work and stay focus. With the volunteering and working try not to put too much hours into that, as you really need to focus on your classes. Your hours will accumulate by the time you graduate so put more time into getting A's and B's in your sciences. I also think you need to take organic chemistry II over again and you should do so soon enough while the little you learned is still fresh in your mind.
Good Luck.👍🙂

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I retook Gen Chem II last semester and got a B. I'm afraid I'll have to withdraw from Organic Chem this semester though, I didn't do as poorly as some people on the first test (I saw someone with a 13 in the stack of papers) with a 69 but there's no curve and I should've gotten a better start since it'll only get harder. Might re-take in the summer.

 

[geh926]

Hey guys, I've been going crazy lately trying to figure out what to do, so I thought I would ask for some advice if possible.

I'm set to graduate this May with a degree in physiology~3.3 cgpa., Solid ec's, but I have yet to take the MCAT. I really want to take it in April, but I'm taking 19 hours currently in order to finish my major/minor, so I don't really see when I could put some good hard studying in for it. So, I guess I'm just lost on what to do here. I really want to get my app. in for this cycle and plan on applying to 20 schools (do and md). But should I be trying to apply to some SMP, or MS, and when should I try to take the MCAT in order to still apply at some point this summer?😕

 

[wadda]

.

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm currently a senior at SUNY (State Uni. of NY) in Stony Brook, doing a double major in Biology and History. I also will be in school for an extra semester to finish up my majors.
Currently, I have a 3.09 cumulative gpa, but my science gpa is much lower, possibly ~2.6. I have not taken my MCAT's yet, but was planning on doing so this summer, since I'm not graduating this semester.
I've volunteered at NY Presbyterian Hospital/Cornell Med College for 2 summers in my freshman and sophomore years. Since junior year, I have been working in a pathology lab at my school, learning various lab techniques and observing mouse surgeries.
I know I need to boost up my undergrad gpa, but I can't decide whether a post-bacc or an SMP would be better. Any suggestions? I know I definitely do not want to a DO (I don't agree with the philosophy), but I am open to applying to the Carribean

With a double major I'm guessing you have at least 150 credit hours with a 3.09 average. Chances are an SMP is your only chance to get into an American school (DO or otherwise) in a reasonable amount of time. I'd recommend using the summer semester to correct your science GPA (You want at least a 2.8) and then start an SMP in the fall. If you can't get an MCAT in time for the SMP applications spend the year working on your undergrad GPA, then start next fall. Look at the SMPs at the top of this forum to determine their requirements and deadlines.

I'm not sure what you think the DO 'philosophy' is, but I don't think that 40 hours of OMM justifies ruling out the only category of US schools you're likely to get into. Honestly this is a technnical profession, there isn't a whole lot of philosophy at any school.

The Caribbean is definitely another option. You could start as early as this coming spring with a decent MCAT. Just be aware that a lot of the people who go either fail out or fail to get a residency. If you're one of them you'll be buried under a pile of debt you might never escape from. Don't go unless you're 100% sure you've corrected the problem that got you the 3.09

Good luck

 

[thes_hunter]

Sorry to post twice in a row, but I found some of my old transcripts and I thought I would post some words of encouragement for those of us trying to recover from low to mid 2 point GPAs.

When I graduated with my BFA I had a 2.494.

I have had a not so stellar Post Bac GPA of 3.18 over 61 credits. Even with these wonderfully crappy Post Bac numbers, I raised my GPA to 2.98. This with a failure in Mandarin, and C's in some Physics classes. Even with this crap GPA I have been waitlisted at Medical schools and accepted to a SMP, so I have high expectations that I will be accepted to a MD program within the next two years. Now this is partially due to the fact that I ave always been more concerned with how much I understand the material and not what Letter grade I have been assigned (Though my prespective on this is changing. 😉 ) because my understanding of the material scored me a decently good MCAT of 34.

So all this said, you peeps can totally raise your GPA even higher. So do not lament your low GPA as you go into your Post Bac. Work hard and you shall be rewarded. 😀

I want to spread some cheer and hope to my low GPA hommies.

I Going to Wayne State SOM!


Which means, you can do it. Never give up, never surrender. Take no prisoners on those MCATS, those Post-bacs, those secondary application essays. You can do it!

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~

 

[DrMidlife]

I know I definitely do not want to a DO (I don't agree with the philosophy)

That philosophy is marketing. Every good physician who isn't a walking lawsuit, MD or DO, effectively subscribes to the "philosophy." If the part you don't agree with is the practice of manipulation, or the view that all disease is based in spinal lesions, then you'd be among 95%+ of practicing DOs.

I don't think that 40 hours of OMM justifies ruling out the only category of US schools you're likely to get into.

It's not 40 hours, more like a few hundred. 20% of the M1/M2 curriculum is OPP (5 hours in lecture/lab per week), and usually there are required OPP rotations. There's pressure to salute the OPP flag throughout residency and practice, if you want to have any involvement with the AOA (the DO equivalent of the AMA).

All that said, at the risk of pissing off a whole demographic on SDN, the "O" in "DO" can be viewed as a necessary set of hoops you can choose to jump through on your way to becoming a practicing physician, if you find yourself without the credentials to get into an LCME med school, or if you find yourself unwilling to take on the risks of the Caribbean.

 

[faxncc]

what was the min. overall and science gpa that has been admitted to allo or osteo?

 

[DrMidlife]

what was the min. overall and science gpa that has been admitted to allo or osteo?

Quite a bit lower than a wise applicant would consider credible. Don't confuse an anecdote with a plan.

You can search mdapplicants.com for data. I recommend throwing out about 2/3 of the data as being bogus.

 

[Perrotfish]

what was the min. overall and science gpa that has been admitted to allo or osteo?

The minimum ever admitted is hard to verify and not a very useful piece of information.

The AVERAGE, which is useful, is about a 3.6 and 31 for allo and (I think) a 27 and 3.4 for osteo. GPA screens tend to start at 3.2 for allo and 3.0 for osteo.

It might be easier to just post your situation and ask for advice.

 

[anjelicad]

Hi Everyone,

First thank you all for giving feedback and amazing support to those of us who haven't had the best of luck in school. I've done some research on all the low GPA forums and post-baccalaureate programs, but none have really given me a straight answer on the best course of action for my situation.

I'm currently at senior at a large public university. I have a 2.6, probably will improve to 2.7 since I'm taking a full course load this semester. I've taken all of my pre-medical pre-req's but I did get some C's in a few courses, but I did not fail any of them. I did however fail one science course and Spanish, and received two D's in outside courses (philosophy).

I have not taken the MCAT yet because I plan on taking a Kaplan course. Plus I'm afraid I'd only score in the 20's if I took it now. I have plenty of research experience and publications, I've done shadowing, worked on Capitol Hill, and have lots of leadership and volunteering. So the problem is what is the best course for improving my GPA.

These are the options I'm currently looking at:

(1) Not graduating this year, and obtaining a second major/double degree in Biology. Working part-time in a lab.

(2) Graduate with a BA, and take a year of science courses. Than apply to an SMP. (However, its unclear which SMP's will take students with less than a 3.0 GPA...any sugguestions)

I'm pretty flexible in what path I need to take to get into medical school. I'm also very open to D.O. programs. Any guidance is greatly appreciated. Thanks. 👍

 

[Perrotfish]

How long would it take you to get to a double major in Bio? And why wouldn't an extra year of coursework get you up to a 3.0?

Anyway, yeah: don't graduate quite yet, get to a 3.0, get a good MCAT, and then go SMP. If you can pick up a double major along the way that's great. OR

1) Retake courses you screwed up until you have a 3.4 (with grade replacement) and go DO.

2) Get a decent MCAT, go caribbean next spring, and try your darndest to be in the minority that both graduates and get a resdiency.

 

[jmrunner87]

I just got my mcat score back and I am needing some advice. I am graduating in June with about a 3.3 gpa (strong upward trend). I got a 25Q on the mcat (first attempt). I am planning on retaking the mcat in July or August, and I know I can do better (I was scoring 30s on practice tests). I would like to start an SMP fall 2009, but with my mcat score I am not sure that will be possible. I have done a year and a half of research (will have my name on a paper or two once they are published), volunteering with kids with disabilities, hospital volunteering, DII athletics (for year), physician shadowing, and a few other extracurricular activities.
Should I wait on applying to an SMP? Or do I have a chance at getting into one like Tufts, Drexel, or VCU for fall 2009? Thanks.

 

[Perrotfish]

Should I wait on applying to an SMP? Or do I have a chance at getting into one like Tufts, Drexel, or VCU for fall 2009? Thanks.

Apply to every one you would want to go toand find out. Worst they can say is no. There is no 'reapplicant' box to check for SMPs, and there aren't enough application fees for it to make much a hole in your budget. Make sure you apply to all of them, not just your 'safties'. Who knows, GTown might like something they see in your app.

The real question is, would you go to a low quality SMP this fall (I'm thinking specifically of VCU) or hold out for a higher quality SMP that you could get into when you have your MCAT in hand. Really that's got to be your decision, but make sure you know the success rates of various programs before you commit yourself to one. For various reasons, expense not the least of them, you won't be able to do this twice.

 

[hung]

The VCU program is revamped for incoming Fall 09. It is now one program with a single program director. There is an added incentive of guarantee interivew at VCU SOM if you complete the program with 3.5 gpa and have at least 28 mcat and extracurriculars. Granted the VCU program doesn't compare to the bigger names, it is still a viable option. I wouldn't call it "low quality", it is more "mediocre". Unless you really want to goto VCU SOM, VCU certificate program should be backup.

 

[Perrotfish]

The VCU program is revamped for incoming Fall 09. It is now one program with a single program director. There is an added incentive of guarantee interivew at VCU SOM if you complete the program with 3.5 gpa and have at least 28 mcat and extracurriculars. Granted the VCU program doesn't compare to the bigger names, it is still a viable option. I wouldn't call it "low quality", it is more "mediocre". Unless you really want to goto VCU SOM, VCU certificate program should be backup.

I consider a program low quality if it gets less than (slightly arbitrary #s) 35% of its students into medical school, high quality if it gets more than 75% into med school, and everything else is mediocre. VCU is low quality.

 

[thes_hunter]

I gotta plug my SMP, (University of Cincinnati) since that program is definitely the edge I had that finally got me off the wait-list.

They now take 3 classes with the med students and you are ranked only against the med-students not your peers. The program directors and professors are very supportive and friendly.

The program is very tough because you are completing a masters degree in one year. Though I see no other substitute when you are trying to prove to an ad-com that you can 'hack' it.

Good luck everyone! You can do it!

 

[hung]

LOL. Your standard of 35% is about how many students get into med school. However, the 35% is of total students at the start of the program. About 2/3 of students finish the program and about 50% of that get into med school within 3 years of completion. I'm only defending the program because the program isn't that bad and it is opportunity to get into VCU SOM.

 

[wadda]

.

 

[jmrunner87]

Thanks for the advice Perrotfish. I've decided to stay another year as an undergrad (since I would have been graduating after just three years). Hopefully by next spring my gpa will be around a 3.5, and I'll do really well on the mcat in August or September.

 

[yadave]

I gotta plug my SMP, (University of Cincinnati) since that program is definitely the edge I had that finally got me off the wait-list.

They now take 3 classes with the med students and you are ranked only against the med-students not your peers. The program directors and professors are very supportive and friendly.

The program is very tough because you are completing a masters degree in one year. Though I see no other substitute when you are trying to prove to an ad-com that you can 'hack' it.

Good luck everyone! You can do it!

what were your stats when you applied to UC's SMP? That's where i wanna go for my SMP and I wanted to know what stats I should be aiming for to be competitive

 

[thes_hunter]

what were your stats when you applied to UC's SMP? That's where i wanna go for my SMP and I wanted to know what stats I should be aiming for to be competitive

I'll repeat what I said here in my PM in case anyone else was curious.

I had a 3.0 GPA and a 34 MCAT. I know when I got in my MCAT was an important factor.

Good luck everyone!

 

[pices394]

Here is my situation:
3.5 overall GPA from really good school
2.8-2.9 science (ugh)
Thinking about doing an SMP- what are my chances of getting into one? I haven't taken the MCAT yet.
Thanks!

 

[preDental8]

Hi,

I have just started taking post bac classes at a CUNY school. My goal is to get into dental school, however, Im worried that I dont even have a chance. Could someone please give me advice on how I should proceed given the information below

Undergrad: (top public school)
Major: Liberal Arts graduated '04
GPA: cum 2.69
D1 athlete

I took no science classes in undergrad besides an intro nutri sci class which i got a B+ in.

I took alot of honors science classes in high school and took ap bio, did really well in all of them. Love science.

Currently I work full time at a major corporation and go to school in the evenings, taking one class for now (bio) plan on taking two next semester.

Also, I plan on volunteering at a local dental clinic during the summer, as i dont have much time with work and school right now to do that.

I am getting an A in my bio class right now and study all the time, all wkend, after work etc.

I plan on eventually leaving work full and going to an accredited post bac program after next semester. That is if i can get in.

Since I have no science classes from undergrad and its been 5 years since i graduated, how badly will my poor gpa affect my chances? In addition, should I do a post bac, or get a masters degree in science?

Please let me know and thank you in advance for your help.

🙂

 

[yadave]

Hi,

I have just started taking post bac classes at a CUNY school. My goal is to get into dental school, however, Im worried that I dont even have a chance. Could someone please give me advice on how I should proceed given the information below

Undergrad: (top public school)
Major: Liberal Arts graduated '04
GPA: cum 2.69
D1 athlete

I took no science classes in undergrad besides an intro nutri sci class which i got a B+ in.

I took alot of honors science classes in high school and took ap bio, did really well in all of them. Love science.

Currently I work full time at a major corporation and go to school in the evenings, taking one class for now (bio) plan on taking two next semester.

Also, I plan on volunteering at a local dental clinic during the summer, as i dont have much time with work and school right now to do that.

I am getting an A in my bio class right now and study all the time, all wkend, after work etc.

I plan on eventually leaving work full and going to an accredited post bac program after next semester. That is if i can get in.

Since I have no science classes from undergrad and its been 5 years since i graduated, how badly will my poor gpa affect my chances? In addition, should I do a post bac, or get a masters degree in science?

Please let me know and thank you in advance for your help.

🙂

I dont know much about dental school so please someone correct me if im wrong. From what I have heard I think if its been more than 3 years since you've graduated that GPA is kinda looked over? Dont take my word for it though, do some research. If I were you I would take more than just two classes but ofcourse dont take something you cant handel. Get that GPA up and I think you;ll be ok. but again, i dont know much about dental school. best of luck to you.

 

[pices394]

3.5 overall GPA from really good school
2.8-2.9 science (ugh)
Thinking about doing an SMP- what are my chances of getting into one? I haven't taken the MCAT yet.
Thanks!

 

[Xcited392]

3.5 overall GPA from really good school
2.8-2.9 science (ugh)
Thinking about doing an SMP- what are my chances of getting into one? I haven't taken the MCAT yet.
Thanks!

I think you should take some additional undergraduate-level science classes and get that sciGPA to at least a 3.0. You're overall GPA is in great shape. Even if you do well on the MCAT, it's your sciGPA that is slightly holding you back.