The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

[Perrotfish]

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I think you should take some additional undergraduate-level science classes and get that sciGPA to at least a 3.0. You're overall GPA is in great shape. Even if you do well on the MCAT, it's your sciGPA that is slightly holding you back.

Improving the sci gpa thing and the SMP are not mutually exclussive. SMPs start in the fall. You should be able to take enough sci courses your summer semester to get to a 3.0 by the time the SMP starts.

SMP odds: You have a great shot with a good MCAT, without an MCAT you still have a good shot, but only at the very limited range of programs that will accept another test in liu of the MCAT. With a 3.5 cumulative, of course, you might not necessarily want an SMP at all.

G'luck.

 

[KiwiBruin]

Hey guys. I remember reading about this somewhere, but I forgot where. I am sure one of you guys would know the answer to this. If we decide to goto a SMP, will we never be able to fix our undergraduate gpa if we decide to goto masters then undergrad classes?

 

[DrMidlife]

Hey guys. I remember reading about this somewhere, but I forgot where. I am sure one of you guys would know the answer to this. If we decide to goto a SMP, will we never be able to fix our undergraduate gpa if we decide to goto masters then undergrad classes?

SMP schools don't have any power over your undergrad GPA. You can go do more undergrad to your heart's content.

But that would be doing it backwards. An SMP should be your last ditch attempt to get into med school, not a step along the way. Everything in your app except should be in great shape before you start an SMP. If your undergrad GPA can be repaired, repair it first. Then you can skip the SMP, save yourself about $50k in student loans, and keep yourself from running into federal loan caps during med school.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Vanish007]

Well after lots of thought...I guess I'm brave enough to post my story here as well...apologies for the long post 😳

I graduated with a Cum:2.78 and a Sci:2.59. Terrible, awful, loathsome...I know...my problem was not really parties and neglect, but rather trying to overachieve, poor study habits, and test anxiety. What I mean by overachieving is doing a BS in Biochemistry with a Psych minor, volunteer EMT (amongst other volunteering activities), and a part-time job to help pay for the textbooks. Things I kick myself for doing, but hey, no regrets now...only lessons learned!

MCAT score was low: B:10, P:7, V:5 W:Q (22Q)
I sometimes struggle with test anxiety (I know many people don't believe in this...but I don't know how else to explain the A's and B's in my lab courses and then B-'s and C's in my lectures not to mention the over-thinking and unnecessary pressure I put on myself - ahhh! 🙄) Currently improving over this problem however with some major confidence boosts! (I scored decent, not spectacular, on my GREs V:600 A:710 Wrt:5.0)

Poor study habits means I would study for hours and hours giving up a lot of social time while trying to understand the material yet getting only B's and C's...umm this does not add up.😕

Currently I've been working as a Research Assistant II (going on my third year) at a state of the art Core Facility at a good university. Right now, my plan of attack is to look at my transcript and retake the core science courses with a C and take a few more upper level science classes to iron out the GPA and pull it UP. Also thinking to get a Master's while I do this since a Masters can always help my Job prospects should the med school option fail. I'm willing to apply to Medical schools all around.

Finally, I've considered the Caribbean option and it's something that I'm keeping as a final back-up due to the fact that I almost definitely will have to do a Post-Doc/Fellowship before I can obtain a residency match. I've spoken to many people that have gone that route and that is what they've had to do so I figured that those years can be put into fixing the GPA and getting into a U.S. school (MD's or DO's).

What do you think about my plan of attack/prospects? There are many days I just feel so lost and left behind while friends are moving onward, but I refuse to give up something I've worked hard - and am continuing to work hard for. Thank you all for your patience and time, I truly appreciate any and all answers, harsh criticism or not! =D

 

[mocha blanca]

Yep, you have to look at your cumulative numbers. That means it's time to make a spreadsheet. No whining: I had to do this for 24 years of undergrad coursework. 125 courses and counting.

Once you know your cumulative totals (overall and science), you're set to make some decisions. You can always take more undergrad coursework, and in my view it's always better to do more undergrad than an SMP as long as you can budge your average.

My personal thresholds:
- cumulative uGPAs must be over 3.1 for minimum comfort
- cuGPA 3.1+, MCAT 27+, apply to DO school only
- cuGPA 3.1+, MCAT 30+, apply to DO school and state MD schools
- cuGPA 3.4+, MCAT 27+, apply to DO school and state MD schools
- cuGPA 3.4+, MCAT 30+, apply anywhere you want
- if you can't get your cuGPA over 3.1, get it over 3.0, and get an MCAT well over 30, and do an SMP

Hope this helps. Best of luck to you.

Hey, so I'm a notorious lurker, but I just had to take the bait on this thread. I have a 3.1 cGPA, 2.9-3.0 sGPA, and 31S. Just got into Tufts MBS 2009-2010. I was planning on applying to a few schools this upcoming cycle just to see how lucky I get (would attempt state MD schools, but I'm a California resident). Any advice on where I should apply or if I should just wait until after my SMP?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Perrotfish]

What do you think about my plan of attack/prospects?

Your plan of attack: drop the masters degree or drop the plan to go to medical school. A masters degree is a 2 year program that does nothing to enhance your chances at medical school. It's not a backup, it's a different career path.

good plans of attack:

1) get your GPA up to a 3.0 (both sci and cum) by any means necessary, w/o grade replacement. Redo and rock the MCAT. Apply to an SMP and kill that. Go to medical school

2) Get your GPA up to a 3.4 (both sci and cum) with grade replcement. Redo and rock the MCAT. Apply to, and go to, a DO school.

3) Definitely redo the MCAT and maybe improve the GPA. Go to a top 4 Caribbean school. Feel free to contact their ADCOM about what you need to do to get in, they're friendly. Try not to be one of the legions of students that either fails out or fails to match.

Your prospects: Honestly? Dim. You've yet to demonstrate that you can get good grades and you have a demonstrated difficulty with the MCAT. Repairing your application for anything but a carribean medical school will take several years and if you can't get passed the MCAT hurdle it's never going to happen. If you skip the hurdles and go directly to the islands (if they would even take you) your stats predict you are going to fail right out, or at best fail boards 2 years down the line.


And every year that the problems you have don't get fixed you're going to be more burried under debt and your chances are going to get even worse. From the fact you were working to pay for books I'm guessing I'm not talking to a Trust Fund Baby. Maybe set an initial goal... the MCAT might be a good target. Spend a semester studying for just that, give it your all. If you hit 30 then don't give up, keep striving, and go with the SMP, or the caribbean, or whatever. If you can't pass, consider another career path. Maybe nursing? A few years as an RN followed by an upgade to an NP isn't so far off in terms of income, misery, and scope of practice from medical school. Anyway, that's my opinion, and I'm just some random medical student so take it for what it's worth.

You CAN do this, if you really want to and have fixed your academic problems, but it's a long and difficult road. Make sure it's what you really want.

 

[DrMidlife]

Hey, so I'm a notorious lurker, but I just had to take the bait on this thread. I have a 3.1 cGPA, 2.9-3.0 sGPA, and 31S. Just got into Tufts MBS 2009-2010. I was planning on applying to a few schools this upcoming cycle just to see how lucky I get (would attempt state MD schools, but I'm a California resident). Any advice on where I should apply or if I should just wait until after my SMP?

Thanks in advance!

Unfortunately, there is no point whatsoever in applying to CA state MD schools concurrently with SMP attendance. Save your money. I'm basing this statement on having read all 3800 posts in the Yahoo Gtown SMP group, where since 1999 the program director has been sharing anecdotal info on how CA residents get absolutely nowhere until the year AFTER doing the SMP. (If you read through this forum's SMP threads, you'll see this backed up again and again.) Gtown is the best known, most aggressively supportive SMP, but UCs give NO love. Tufts is an unknown, with no published stats, and according to the Tufts MBS threads, a rotten concurrent app record in its first two years.

So to balance this with some encouragement, I want you to know that NOT going to med school in a hurry means you're not squandering your glorious 20's in lecture and study halls. You could have some actual MEMORIES of your fabulous youth. You could avoid the pain of slamming through med school and finding out at age 32 with gray hair and crow's feet and $600k debt that medicine is NOT what makes you happy. In your shoes, I'd be looking at a Peace Corps gig, backpacking through Europe, biking through Vietnam, moving to New Orleans to work on recovery projects, and aiming for med school by age 28 or so (assuming you're, what, 22?).

So. If you can raise your undergrad GPAs by at least .2 apiece by taking another year of undergrad coursework, that's by FAR the best use of your time and money right now - much more valuable than an SMP, imho. If you spreadsheet it out, you can see what's possible. Even after killing an SMP, I would not apply to a UC with a sub-3.0 science GPA (unless I'm a disabled URM with first authorship, in which case I'd try for UCSF).

After that >= .2 improvement, then you're ready to go after a good SMP, and after the SMP, you're ready to apply to a CA MD school. I would pick an SMP that gets students into UCs. If Tufts can demonstrate that they've done this, great, otherwise get into Gtown or Cincinnati or another SMP that publishes its alumni record.

To save Perrotfish some time, his/her opinion contrasts with mine, in that his/her view is that doing an SMP negates the necessity to work on an undergrad GPA, within reason. I'm not sure he/she would bless a sub-3.0 science GPA, though.

Lastly, in your shoes, again, I'd slow it down, go live it up, change your state of residence, and make sure you can remember your 20's.

Best of luck to you.

 

[mocha blanca]

Unfortunately, there is no point whatsoever in applying to CA state MD schools concurrently with SMP attendance. Save your money. I'm basing this statement on having read all 3800 posts in the Yahoo Gtown SMP group, where since 1999 the program director has been sharing anecdotal info on how CA residents get absolutely nowhere until the year AFTER doing the SMP. (If you read through this forum's SMP threads, you'll see this backed up again and again.) Gtown is the best known, most aggressively supportive SMP, but UCs give NO love. Tufts is an unknown, with no published stats, and according to the Tufts MBS threads, a rotten concurrent app record in its first two years.

So to balance this with some encouragement, I want you to know that NOT going to med school in a hurry means you're not squandering your glorious 20's in lecture and study halls. You could have some actual MEMORIES of your fabulous youth. You could avoid the pain of slamming through med school and finding out at age 32 with gray hair and crow's feet and $600k debt that medicine is NOT what makes you happy. In your shoes, I'd be looking at a Peace Corps gig, backpacking through Europe, biking through Vietnam, moving to New Orleans to work on recovery projects, and aiming for med school by age 28 or so (assuming you're, what, 22?).

So. If you can raise your undergrad GPAs by at least .2 apiece by taking another year of undergrad coursework, that's by FAR the best use of your time and money right now - much more valuable than an SMP, imho. If you spreadsheet it out, you can see what's possible. Even after killing an SMP, I would not apply to a UC with a sub-3.0 science GPA (unless I'm a disabled URM with first authorship, in which case I'd try for UCSF).

After that >= .2 improvement, then you're ready to go after a good SMP, and after the SMP, you're ready to apply to a CA MD school. I would pick an SMP that gets students into UCs. If Tufts can demonstrate that they've done this, great, otherwise get into Gtown or Cincinnati or another SMP that publishes its alumni record.

To save Perrotfish some time, his/her opinion contrasts with mine, in that his/her view is that doing an SMP negates the necessity to work on an undergrad GPA, within reason. I'm not sure he/she would bless a sub-3.0 science GPA, though.

Lastly, in your shoes, again, I'd slow it down, go live it up, change your state of residence, and make sure you can remember your 20's.

Best of luck to you.

Awesome. Thank you so much for a quick and insightful answer. I've still got some time to think things over. I really don't want to waste my money in "applying broadly" this cycle since I know I've got no chance at what some people will call "upper tier" med schools (I really don't care where I go. Honestly. As long as I don't die of complete lack of civilization. And I'm trying to avoid Carib. Unless it comes down to it, then what the heck). I actually wasn't planning on applying to any CA schools (I've known that was a lost cause after my first semester or two of undergrad). I'll probably just change my state of residency and hope for the best from there.

Thanks again!

Edit: I know what you're saying about Tufts. Any opinions on U of Toledo MSBS? Apparently all of their SMP students get interviews, and 65% of them make it to their school. But I've barely found any info on SDN. Maybe that's a bad thing...?

 

[maikerbear]

cGPA = 3.40
sGPA = 3.40
FL resident.

I realize my GPA isn't that low but I'm in a situation that I think I absolutely have to do a post-bacc program of some sort. I would have to do this due to erratic performance in my undergrad so far. I have 42 credit hours left before I graduate, and if I ace these classes (hypothetically) my gpas would rise to: cgpa = 3.60 and sgpa = 3.66.

Here's my gpa breakdown by semester: 3.26, 3.64, 2.61, complete withdrawal (unhappy at college - 5 W's), 3 semester break working full time with no intention of returning, 4.0, 3.94, 2.83, complete withdrawal (fiancee became severely depressed- 2 W's).

I had a nice upward trend going into this fall, but now I just feel like even if I do raise my GPA no medical school would take me seriously.

1. Do I have any chance at all?
2. What would you guys/gals do in my situation after finishing my undergrad degree? Ideas I put together so far (unsure which is best): formal post-bacc, informal post-bacc, masters degree, SMP, and anything but give up 🙂.
3. Would a high MCAT score help compensate at all?

 

[Vanish007]

Your prospects: Honestly? Dim. You've yet to demonstrate that you can get good grades and you have a demonstrated difficulty with the MCAT. Repairing your application for anything but a carribean medical school will take several years and if you can't get passed the MCAT hurdle it's never going to happen. If you skip the hurdles and go directly to the islands (if they would even take you) your stats predict you are going to fail right out, or at best fail boards 2 years down the line.


And every year that the problems you have don't get fixed you're going to be more burried under debt and your chances are going to get even worse. From the fact you were working to pay for books I'm guessing I'm not talking to a Trust Fund Baby. Maybe set an initial goal... the MCAT might be a good target. Spend a semester studying for just that, give it your all. If you hit 30 then don't give up, keep striving, and go with the SMP, or the caribbean, or whatever. If you can't pass, consider another career path. Maybe nursing? A few years as an RN followed by an upgade to an NP isn't so far off in terms of income, misery, and scope of practice from medical school. Anyway, that's my opinion, and I'm just some random medical student so take it for what it's worth.

You CAN do this, if you really want to and have fixed your academic problems, but it's a long and difficult road. Make sure it's what you really want.

Thank you very much for the honest response, Perrot. To tell you the truth, I'm no where near ready to throw in the towel yet. I've lurked on these boards for some time and spoken with many doctors and students in the field and of course the road will be difficult, but no way near impossible. Obviously there are many like me and worse off than me that have made it after exhaustingly hard work. I'm a lot more mature and confident in what I have to accomplish from here on. Hard work has not been a stranger to me, but confidence in myself has.

On that note, I believe I will work to raise the GPA and MCATs scores and then finally apply everywhere. Optimism aside, and looking objectively at my stats of course I have other careers lined up as back-ups (I'm not interested in Nursing, but PA could be an option), however in the science field it looks like it's all about numbers so I'm concentrating on this first. It's dejecting and utterly deppressing, but so what...I know what I have to do and it's all in accomplishing this.

 

[Perrotfish]

Thank you very much for the honest response, Perrot. To tell you the truth, I'm no where near ready to throw in the towel yet. I've lurked on these boards for some time and spoken with many doctors and students in the field and of course the road will be difficult, but no way near impossible. Obviously there are many like me and worse off than me that have made it after exhaustingly hard work. I'm a lot more mature and confident in what I have to accomplish from here on. Hard work has not been a stranger to me, but confidence in myself has.

On that note, I believe I will work to raise the GPA and MCATs scores and then finally apply everywhere. Optimism aside, and looking objectively at my stats of course I have other careers lined up as back-ups (I'm not interested in Nursing, but PA could be an option), however in the science field it looks like it's all about numbers so I'm concentrating on this first. It's dejecting and utterly deppressing, but so what...I know what I have to do and it's all in accomplishing this.

Good luck

 

[Perrotfish]

1. Do I have any chance at all?
2. What would you guys/gals do in my situation after finishing my undergrad degree? Ideas I put together so far (unsure which is best): formal post-bacc, informal post-bacc, masters degree, SMP, and anything but give up 🙂.
3. Would a high MCAT score help compensate at all?

With a high MCAT score and a 3.6 I doubt you'd need any help at all to get into medical school, even with the Ws. Just apply as early and as broadly as possible and you'll probably land several interviews.

In terms of more detailed advice, come back and ask when you're finished with the classes and have an actual MCAT. When your GPA could end up as anything from a 3.2 to a 3.7 and your MCAT doesn't exist yet it's hard to give real specific advice. Until then, study hard.

 

[nycagirl]

So I used to lurk a long time ago and just recently rediscovered the forums.
I'm trying to get back on track and thought that going through the forums would be great to get any advice & would be greatly appreciated.

So I graduated from a Top 25 major public university in 2003.
I was pre med when I first started but ended up double majoring in Economics and Latin American Studies. Cumulative GPA is 3.232. Science GPA at the time of graduation was 2.99.

I started working full time after graduation at the medical center at taking remaining science classes through Extension, one class at a time. Science GPA from Extension 2.89. Working full time and taking classes was hard because I was self supporting at the time. Anyway, in one of the Extension classes that I took actually at the university during the day, I got a D but I retook the class and got an A-. Does the D have to be factored in? I was not sure.

So after a 2 year hiatus I started taking classes again and am finishing up at the local community college, the remaining science classes have a 3.3 GPA.

Seems as though Science GPA remains at 2.934.

I took the last paper MCAT in August 2006 and worked part time (but seemed to work more than that) and obtained an 18. The prep course I took said that people who took the last paper MCAT got skewed scores for 2 sites. I was getting above 25 in the practice tests. Meanwhile, people doing bad on the Practice tests did well on the actual exam (i.e practice score below 20 and actual 30+). Anyway, doesn't matter I did not do well.

My work experience includes both an Administrative Assistant & Research Assistant in Pediatrics and Family Medicine. I worked Full Time for about 5 years. I am now jobless.

I'm not sure at this point if MD should even be an option. But I don't want to lose hope.

I am looking to apply to Post Bacc programs this fall - majority of them in California to boost my science GPA. Am I on the right track? Should I just give up and do something else? I was even thinking of getting a M.A. degree before applying. 😕

 

[DO2Be2013]

Just wanted to share my low-GPA success story. Graduated in 2004 (major state university) with BS in Psychology, cumulative GPA 2.68. Three years ago started in on an informal piecemeal post-bac (whatever community college offered science classes at night) and took on the 32 science pre-reqs plus an additional 21 credits of math/science credits for extra measure with all A's/B's.

Overall GPA ended up at 3.09 and science GPA is 3.18.

Applied this year (D.O. only) with a 29S MCAT to three schools and netted interview offers from all three. Of that, I've got two acceptances and one waitlist. I'm going to medical school next fall!

 

[Perrotfish]

Just wanted to share my low-GPA success story. Graduated in 2004 (major state university) with BS in Psychology, cumulative GPA 2.68. Three years ago started in on an informal piecemeal post-bac (whatever community college offered science classes at night) and took on the 32 science pre-reqs plus an additional 21 credits of math/science credits for extra measure with all A's/B's.

Overall GPA ended up at 3.09 and science GPA is 3.18.

Applied this year (D.O. only) with a 29S MCAT to three schools and netted interview offers from all three. Of that, I've got two acceptances and one waitlist. I'm going to medical school next fall!

Congrats!

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm not sure at this point if MD should even be an option. But I don't want to lose hope.

I am looking to apply to Post Bacc programs this fall - majority of them in California to boost my science GPA. Am I on the right track? Should I just give up and do something else? I was even thinking of getting a M.A. degree before applying.

Hmm, I guess no one else replied. If you're still checking, no don't lose hope. A 3.3 isn't that bad and one bad MCAT is no reason to give up (if you screw up 3 or 4 times then you might have a problem). Get your science GPA over a 3.0, apply to SMPs and DO schools, and do your best.

Once again, doing a traditional MA doesn't seem to help your app much. It's not a bad path to a different career (also look into being a PA or NP) but it's not a good strategy to get into Med School.

 

[yoyoyoyoyoyo12]

so i'm torn. i have an opportunity to study abroad in africa doing volunteer internships while taking classes (history, sciences) as well. my gpa upon graduation if i go next semester will probably stand at a 3.2. if i dont go it could potentially be a 3.3. should i go or not go? the classes there im sure will factor in to the amcas but will this experience help me in the end get into medschool? (i realize i will still be doing an smp)

 

[yoyoyoyoyoyo12]

but would the 3.2 make the cutoff when actually applying to medschool after smp? I'm worried that my app will be overlooked. and how are science classes abroad looked at anyway?

 

[drizzt3117]

but would the 3.2 make the cutoff when actually applying to medschool after smp? I'm worried that my app will be overlooked. and how are science classes abroad looked at anyway?

I doubt it, your GPA is going to be pretty low regardless, so I doubt it will be more overlooked with 3.2 as opposed to 3.3

 

[Perrotfish]

but would the 3.2 make the cutoff when actually applying to medschool after smp? I'm worried that my app will be overlooked. and how are science classes abroad looked at anyway?

There shouldn't be any autoscreens for a 3.2 that wouldn't screen out an 3.3, no.

 

[naijachica]

Hi Everyone!

I am a newbie and very excited to have found this thread. Perrotfish you are awesome and I love your insight and honesty.

Anywho on to my story.....it's pretty typical

I am currently a senior at a highly regarded public university. Always had an interest in medicine but got brainwashed by my mom and lack of confidence into going the physical therapy route. Therefore I had to take bio, chem and anatomy at the same time my freshman year. Big mistake! I was overly confident having done so well in high school blah blah. To make a long story short I got a D in Intro to Bio I, D in Chem, retook Bio got a D+ , took chem II got a C, retook Chem I got a C. Got a B+ in calculus (only good thing) Decided to change my major to health promotion and got my gpa from a 2.2 to a 2.8.

Sooooo I have decided that I definitely need to finish my prerequisites so I am going to be taking them at the University of MD which is nearby. I will do kaplan and take the mcats in April and hopefully rock it. I do really well on standardized tests although this is obviously not the same as the SAT but hopefully I can rock the MCAT since the science will be fresh in my mind.

I have definitely addressed the academic issues that plagued me and have done well in upper level courses such as kinesiology and physiology and I know I can rock Bio, Physics, and Orgo if I take them. So with that said I was wondering if I take the pre reqs this year and get over a 30 on the mcat and get to a 3.0 overall and 2.9ish in science gpa (retaking bio 3 times is going to screw up my gpa big time since allopathic schools dont replace grades) can I still apply for an SMP program? If not what other steps should I take or consider. Please advise on how realistic this is and what else I can do to enhance my application. Be brutally honest. Thanks in advance!

 

[Perrotfish]

Please advise on how realistic this is and what else I can do to enhance my application. Be brutally honest. Thanks in advance!

Yes you have a realistic shot. If you end up with a very high MCAT and a 3.0 an SMP is an option. Try to get your sci GPA up to a 3.0 if possible (add some BS enviornmental sciences courses, one a semester, to your load while you're taking your prereqs, maybe). Your options, though, are going to vary alot based on the MCAT you actually get and the GPA you actually get.

Main advice: Right now there is only one path open to you: do as well as you can in your classes, study very hard for the MCAT so that you can say you got the best score you could get. After that, you will have a variety of different options, some better than others depending on the scores you get. For example if you only made it to a 2.8, but got a 38 on the MCAT, SMP all the way. On the other hand if you got straight As in your pre-reqs but only could manage a 27 on the MCAT despite your best efforts, focusing on improving your grades for DO school might be your best option. And of course there's the Caribbean. But you'll cross that bridge when you come to it. Right now, finish your pre-reqs, study for the MCAT, and in general just do your best.

Final bit of advice: don't plan on taking more than one class the semester where you study for the MCAT if you can possibly help it.

 

[72531]

hi everyone. I graduated from college 2 years ago with a B.S. in Microbiology. I got a fair amount of C's and a couple D's (Physics, Organic Chemistry) and ended up with a cumulative GPA of 2.8 and a BCPM of 2.5 🙁 I have been enrolled in a Master of Science program at a prestigious institution and am graduating in May. My GPA there is 3.5. I have volunteer & research experience. I know I need to shadow some doctors..I'm just trying to figure out what to do about the grades. It's gonna be hard and a ton of money to get my gpa higher than a 3.0 and if I do my science gpa will probably only go to a 2.8. I really want to be an infectious disease specialist.. I would really appreciate some advice. Thanks.

 

[naijachica]

Final bit of advice: don't plan on taking more than one class the semester where you study for the MCAT if you can possibly help it.

Thanks for that last bit. I know I had to focus my attention on the MCATs but had no idea that taking more than one class would be a bad idea. I will definitely keep that in mind. Which brings me to my next question:

Does any type of hospital job look good on the apps or does it need to be strictly direct patient care. For example, having a B.S. in health promotion there are not many hospital jobs I can qualify for except for admistrative things since I have 4 years of experience in clerical/office work I can do things such as being a unit clerk or administrative assistant. How would the adcoms look at something like that? I really wouldn't mind doing something like patient transporting which provides more patient care, but my mom is totally against that because she believes that I am overly qualified for that because I have a college degree. Please advise.

 

[Perrotfish]

Thanks for that last bit. I know I had to focus my attention on the MCATs but had no idea that taking more than one class would be a bad idea

That's just my advice, considering you're trying to dig yourself out of a hole anyway. It's not like a rule or anything. I know people out there have done it with full loads.

 

[72531]

hi everyone. I graduated from college 2 years ago with a B.S. in Microbiology. I got a fair amount of C's and a couple D's (Physics, Organic Chemistry) and ended up with a cumulative GPA of 2.8 and a BCPM of 2.5 🙁 I have been enrolled in a Master of Science program at a prestigious institution and am graduating in May. My GPA there is 3.5. I have volunteer & research experience. I know I need to shadow some doctors..I'm just trying to figure out what to do about the grades. It's gonna be hard and a ton of money to get my gpa higher than a 3.0 and if I do my science gpa will probably only go to a 2.8. I really want to be an infectious disease specialist.. I would really appreciate some advice. Thanks.

anyone???

 

[Ikonik]

Hey everyone,

I'm a senior, due to graduate in May. Unfortunately my GPA isn't so hot: I have a 3.3 overall, and a 3.0 science GPA. I'm considering postbacs; however I'm torn between them and SMP's. I'm a Molecular/Cell Biology major, if that helps...

I haven't taken my MCAT yet (probably will next year). I know SMP's require them. I have a fair amount of research experience. What should I do? Postbacs or SMPs?

 

[Perrotfish]

I haven't taken my MCAT yet (probably will next year). I know SMP's require them

Well, that settles it. You don't have an MCAT, and won't in time for SMP admissions for next year, so therefore you can't go to an SMP (or at least a good one, a few take the GRE). So I'd recommend you pick up an extra major and spend the enxt year in school to bring up your GPA to a 3.5 and at least a 3.3 in the sciences (if possible). That plus a good MCAT score will get you at least into DO schools and maybe into some allo schools as well. Then, the following year, send out an early and broad application (read through SDN to understand just how early and broad we're talking about) and you'll probably get in somewhere.

G'luck

 

[72531]

1)A normal Master of Science...... sorry I didn't think that had to be clarified. I did a M.S. in Microbio & Immunology @ Hopkins School of Public Health
2)I have 120 credits..about 90 in BCPM? Maybe not a TON of money but almost 10k I would think. I'd need to take at least 25 credits.
I am trying to go for MD and yes I am aware.
3) Yes I have finished pre-reqs considering I already got an undergraduate degree in microbiology and am getting another.
4) No MCAT
5) no Caribbean
6) Maryland
7) no, white female
8) yes, yes

Also:

I had to retake courses I got a D in anyway because they are part of the courses I needed to graduate.
I understand the amount of training that I would have to go through.

Questions:

1) What exactly is a 'Masters in science'? Was it any particular kind of science? Was it an SMP? What University?

2) Why should it take a 'ton of money' to get your GPA over a 3.0? How many undergrad credits do you have (both total and BCPM). Are you aware you can retake classes, and DO schools will only consider your most recent grade?

3) Have you finished you prereqs?

4) Have you taken the MCAT? If so what score? If not, do you have a score from a practice test?

5) Have you looked into the Caribbean?

6) What state are you a resident of?

7) Are you, by any chance, URM?

8) Do you know why you got the 2.8 in the first place? Do you have any reason to believe the problem is fixed now?

Preliminary advice:

1) If you got a D in any premed course (physics and Organic Chem) you have to retake it and get at least a C or you're not even eligible to apply.

2) Infectious Diseases is a competitive fellowship following an IM residency, usually favoring candidates with an MPH. To get in, you need to get into medical school, get a good IM residency, finish that, maybe get an MPH, and then match into the fellowship. Also I promise you your choice of specialty will have changed by then. So what I'm saying is that your goal right now is not ID, but Medical School.

 

[Perrotfish]

1)A normal Master of Science...... sorry I didn't think that had to be clarified. I did a M.S. in Microbio & Immunology @ Hopkins School of Public Health
2)I have 120 credits..about 90 in BCPM? Maybe not a TON of money but almost 10k I would think. I'd need to take at least 25 credits.
I am trying to go for MD and yes I am aware.
3) Yes I have finished pre-reqs considering I already got an undergraduate degree in microbiology and am getting another.
4) No MCAT
5) no Caribbean
6) Maryland
7) no, white female
8) yes, yes

Based on what we've seen on this board:

Well, sorry to say if you want this to happen, refuse to apply DO (No idea why you would refuse to apply to the schools that would probably accept you), then this is going to be a multiyear process. You'll at the very least need to drop the 10K and get up to a 3.0 in both cumulative and BCPM GPA or you'll just get autoscreened out: the only human that will even know you applied will be the clerk who deposits your application check. Then you'll probably need a good MCAT and an SMP (WAY more than 10K) to get you into medical school. Of course with the Hopkins name on your MA you might have shot at appling for the admissions cycle starting in the summer of 2010 if you have that 3.0s and a good MCAT, but it would need to be an early and broad application and you would need to do a stellar job on whatever interviews you landed.

Sorry, G'luck

 

[72531]

Based on what we've seen on this board:

Well, sorry to say if you want this to happen, refuse to apply DO (No idea why you would refuse to apply to the schools that would probably accept you), then this is going to be a multiyear process. You'll at the very least need to drop the 10K and get up to a 3.0 in both cumulative and BCPM GPA or you'll just get autoscreened out: the only human that will even know you applied will be the clerk who deposits your application check. Then you'll probably need a good MCAT and an SMP (WAY more than 10K) to get you into medical school. Of course with the Hopkins name on your MA you might have shot at appling for the admissions cycle starting in the summer of 2010 if you have that 3.0s and a good MCAT, but it would need to be an early and broad application and you would need to do a stellar job on whatever interviews you landed.

Sorry, G'luck

Maybe eventually apply to DO..I just feel that if I did the DO path I'd be settling and I'd also be at a disadvantage. I think right now I would just try to increase my GPA, take a MCAT course, and do well and try then. I understand a lot of people won't get in the first time and it may take several times. Just gotta stay strong. Thanks.

 

[mocha blanca]

Ok, so I've read multiple places that a "strong upward trend" might not necessarily make up for a low GPA, but it would help a lot. How strong is "strong?" I always thought that I never had enough of an upward trend to make a blip in any adcom's radar, but after plugging all my numbers in, I realized that my GPA has slowly crept up each year:

BCPM: 2.43 --- 2.75 --- 3.22 --- 3.6 (with my last semester being all BCPM and a 4.0... unless I somehow completely bomb my finals, but so far, things are looking good)

cGPA: 2.99 --- 3.37 --- 3.23 --- 3.45 (again, with a 4.0 final semester)

All those together and I have a 3.24 cGPA and a 3.04 BCPM (the only reason I filled my schedule with all bio classes this semester was to hope that I can somehow pull off a 4.0 and pull my BCPM over 3.0 -- if I get a B in one of them, it's not happening. Crossing my fingers!)

I know that everyone has been saying that you need to "ace the rest of your classes" to make up for a bad start, but this semester is the only time I've really pulled out a GPA above a 3.5 even (yeah, the whole motivation thing didn't kick in until relatively recently, and I decided to finally take this desire to be a doctor seriously)! Not strong enough of a trend to make a difference, huh?

I'll be applying to a handful of schools this year just to see where I stand, and I just put down the deposit for Tuft's SMP program this coming fall.



I can't help but freak out everytime I visit the Pre-Allo forums and see how great everyone's stats are...

 

[Perrotfish]

I'll be applying to a handful of schools this year just to see where I stand, and I just put down the deposit for Tuft's SMP program this coming fall.

Don't do this. Either apply early and broadly to a mix of about 10 MD and 10 DO schools (you might have a shot with a good MCAT) or do not apply. However you don't really want to have to check off 'reapplicant' on every application next year because you want to know where you stand. Doesn anyone else here have experience with how much being a reapplicant hurts your application?

Otherwise good plan, good improvement, and don't let SDN scare you too much. With a good MCAT and the SMP you should be very competitive.

 

[mocha blanca]

Thanks Perrotfish!

On that note, I got a 31S last August... thinking of retaking after my SMP. Good idea or bad? I only spent 2 weeks studying, and I think that if I put way more effort into it, my score could go up. My only concern is I don't think I'll have time to really study as much as I want to this time around until after I've done all my SMP coursework, and that would mean having to submit my MCAT scores later than I want to next year (I'm totally going to attempt to turn it in as soon as my clock changes to June 1).

 

[bschwingle]

Hello,

I have a few questions that I thought may be answered on this blog. First of all my undergrad GPA was a 2.6. This was largely due to partying and not being focused. Following undergrad, I decided chiropractic may be a good fit due to the fact I would get to treat patients and also learn some about medicine. Bad idea. The education was decent, but I hated practicing as a chiropractor once I graduated. Turns out that none of the classes I took there count for anything in any other institution!!! What a waste of money!!!

Now I am stuck with low undergrad grades and a chiropractic degree I wish I could have stricken from the record due to the amount of money I owe for it and what I actually got out of it. My girlfriend and family think I should get into nursing but I don't want to be a nurse. I finally came to the conclusion that I really truly want to become a doctor. This is where I need help. I need to know where to begin to take the steps necessary to fulfill my dream. I am 32 going on 33 years old and I am a bartender with a lot of time on my hands. I am volunteering as an EMT and thats about it. What can I do to get into medical school? I graduated in 1999 from undergrad and 2004 from chiropractic college. Can someone please give me some advice? Maybe point me in the right direction? Any help would be greatly appreciated🙂

 

[Perrotfish]

I have a few questions that I thought may be answered on this blog. First of all my undergrad GPA was a 2.6. This was largely due to partying and not being focused. Following undergrad, I decided chiropractic may be a good fit due to the fact I would get to treat patients and also learn some about medicine. Bad idea. The education was decent, but I hated practicing as a chiropractor once I graduated. Turns out that none of the classes I took there count for anything in any other institution!!! What a waste of money!!!

Now I am stuck with low undergrad grades and a chiropractic degree I wish I could have stricken from the record due to the amount of money I owe for it and what I actually got out of it. My girlfriend and family think I should get into nursing but I don't want to be a nurse. I finally came to the conclusion that I really truly want to become a doctor. This is where I need help. I need to know where to begin to take the steps necessary to fulfill my dream. I am 32 going on 33 years old and I am a bartender with a lot of time on my hands. I am volunteering as an EMT and thats about it. What can I do to get into medical school? I graduated in 1999 from undergrad and 2004 from chiropractic college. Can someone please give me some advice? Maybe point me in the right direction? Any help would be greatly appreciated

First, your GF may have a point. 'Nursing' doesn't necessarily meaning being an RN, wiping patients asses for the rest of your life. You could pursue an NP degree (or a Physician's assistant degree, if you don't like the stigma of being a male nurse) in much less time and get a similar scope of practice pretty fast.

Now as for how to start, part of that depends on:

1) What science prereqs (if any) did you take to get into chiro school.

2) What is your BCPM GPA

and

3) What were your grades IN chiropractic school?

Now I'll tell you in advance that your 2.6 is going to need to go to a 3.0 before you can even think of getting into medical school, so you're going to be looking at more undergrad. Also, in advance, I'll tell you your best shot is probably goiing to be DO schools: both because their grade replacement policy will let you repair your GPA faster and because I imagine they'd be more sympathetic to the whole chiro thing.

Also, out of curiosity, what didn't you like about being a chiro?

 

[RockSteady08]

Hey everyone,
I am wondering if anyone has any good ideas for me. I am in my junior year of undergrad majoring in Psychology. My current overall gpa is 3.04 and my Psych gpa is 3.02. I understand these are less than desirable for most graduate programs but I am wondering if anyone knows of any accredited Masters programs in psychology in the ny/nj area that would accept my gpa. I also have some research experience in a lab under a professor. So I am wondering if that will help. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

 

[zclm62]

Hello! This is my first post but I have been reading the forum for a while now hoping to find answers to my questions. Here are my stats:
BA in music 3.35 overall GPA
2.8 science GPA (lots of retakes)
Clinical experience as a phlebotomist for 2 years
Volunteer experience but not health-related (mostly tutoring kids, Big Bros Big Sis)

Here is my dilemma: I started a second bachelor’s program as a bio major to finish up the pre-reqs. (as a music major I only had bio 1 chem1 and 1 Calc) Before I finished the degree I decided to go into public health. Now, I am in my last semester as an MPH and should finish up with a 3.6 GPA. I applied to a few SMP (Drexel DPMS, Temple, Wake-Forest for URM, EVMS, Georgetown GEMS, and VCU certificate program.) So far, I have been rejected from Drexel, Temple, and Wake. I have been waitlisted at EVMS, and have not heard yet from Georgetown GEMS or VCU. Drexel recommended their IHS program but it seems to be a waste of time because this program is to explore health fields other than medicine. I would not be taking medical school courses like real SMPs.
My question is what should I do if I do not get into an SMP this year? I will graduate this August after I return from my epidemiology field experience in South Africa working with orphans of AIDS and TB victims. Any suggestions?
Hello!

 

[Perrotfish]

My question is what should I do if I do not get into an SMP this year?

Options:

1) More undergrad

2) Caribbean

3) DO SMPs (you didn't apply to any, there's still time)

4) Maybe retake the MCAT (depending on MCAT)

5) Consider other careers/work

6) Apply DO anyway and hope for the best (if your MCAT is high enough you might make it)

Things you need to clarify:

1) MCAT score

2) Actual current undergrad cumulative GPA and BCPM GPA

3) Does this:

2.8 science GPA (lots of retakes)

Mean you have a 2.8 GPA counting only your most recent grade in the course, or averaging each retake into your GPA as a seperate course? For example if you got an A in Bio, and an F and a C in calc 1, would you calculate your BCPM as a 3.0 or a 2.0? What is your cumGPA and BCPM using both methods for calculating your GPA?

 

[zclm62]

I have a 2.8 science GPA that includes the original grades and the retakes. My over all GPA is 3.35. I have a 26L on the MCAT and have only taken it once.

 

[Perrotfish]

I have a 2.8 science GPA that includes the original grades and the retakes. My over all GPA is 3.35. I have a 26L on the MCAT and have only taken it once.

In that case, my recommendation is to apply DO, broadly, this coming cycle. Taking only your most recent grades for the retake courses, I'm guessing you have over a 3.0 sci GPA and over a 3.4 BCPM? That means both your GPA and your MCAT will be only slightly below the DO matriculant average (maybe even above, for schools like LECOM and VTech). Also I'd recommend applying to DO SMPs and shadowing a DO (if you can manage it) before the fall program starts. If you don't get into a DO SMP do more undergrad, but otherwise the same advice still applies.

As for allo SMPs, your stats just aren't right. SMPs are generally designed for people whose applications don't quite match up: normally a high MCAT and a low GPA (though occasionally you'll see a non-native english speaker with the reverse problem). If you want to go that route, maybe you'll get lucky and get of EVMS's waiting list (it does move quite a bit), but otherwise you probably want to retake the MCAT and break a 30.

 

[Perrotfish]

I have a 2.8 science GPA that includes the original grades and the retakes. My over all GPA is 3.35. I have a 26L on the MCAT and have only taken it once.

In that case, my recommendation is to apply DO, broadly, this coming cycle. Taking only your most recent grades for the retake courses, I'm guessing you have over a 3.0 sci GPA and over a 3.4 BCPM? That means both your GPA and your MCAT will be only slightly below the DO matriculant average (maybe even above, for schools like LECOM and VTech). Also I'd recommend applying to DO SMPs and shadowing a DO (if you can manage it) before the fall program starts. If you don't get into a DO SMP do more undergrad, but otherwise the same advice still applies.

As for allo SMPs, your stats just aren't right. SMPs are generally designed for people whose applications don't quite match up: normally a high MCAT and a low GPA (though occasionally you'll see a non-native english speaker with the reverse problem). If you want to go that route, maybe you'll get lucky and get of EVMS's waiting list (it does move quite a bit), but otherwise you probably want to retake the MCAT and break a 30.

 

[zclm62]

Thanks so much! I am looking into DO SMP now! Any suggestions as to which schools?

 

[Perrotfish]

As with allo SMPs, apply to all of them. If you have to choose, as with all things DO I tend to think of PCOM as the best of the best. But I probably have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm sure there's people with more expereience with DO SMPs that can comment.

 

[klassicBeauty]

1

 

[Perrotfish]

Good evening to ALL! First time POSTING; longtime viewer...but let me GET to it!!!!!


Graduated May 2008 with BS in Biology-pre-med conc. Overall gpa is 3.15 and science gpa of 3.03....had 141 hours..for some odd reason.

Anyway, applied to state school; (live in southeast...with a few top 20 schools) and D.O. school. Of course I did not even get secondaries for MOST schools let alone an interview!!!!

I took the MCAT in August 2008-1st time; and had not finished the pre-reqs and did not study a day so of course I bummed it with a 18Q---hey at least I know I can write!!! LOL

Anyway, I have read the pompous fight about DO is for ppl who cant get into MD and etc...clearly to me these insidious ppl have no idea of facts because last time I checked..the stats werent that different for MD/DO avg and even if it was..at the end of the day...they are both still doctors

It brings me to my present....I'm 23....I applaud the ppl who are 25+ applying and ppl who do not min crafting another 2-4yrs trying to get into MD school....we all have our own opinion but if YOU really want to be an doc..why do you all down the DO route which could be quicker but rather u sit out 2-4yrs just to get MD? Is it the MD u want? or to be a doctor?

Ok...let me get on subject..I just had to say that rant..b/c I just dont get it....So, Im 23/no kid/no job... I should not have taken MCAT when I did and I should not have applied to Med school when I did..I was NOT ready..taking 20-22hrs a semster to graduate on time was enough

However, I am not discouraged by my MCAT...I know I did not study and had not finished pre-reqs until my last semster of senior year!!! Yeah really!

Our southern institution did not have a pre-med coordinator/program until then so that is why my pre-reqs were done late and in same semester which made my ugrad lower.

However, I am not discouraged by my gpa..and I do not agree w/posters that say just go caribbean route! You go that route! Dont believe in bad advice!!!!

I thought of the 1yr Second Degree BSN--the pros would be I could work a year and earn some money and save some but the cons to that would be I wouldnt have time to study for MCAT which is my 1st priority.....

I thought of doing EMT/nurse aide to get more clinical exposure..volunteer..etc..and EARN money rather than SPEND through loans on what I do not have!!!!

Ive applied to WashU Post-bacc Pre-medical Program but do not see if it'll help me or not...but either way...I havent got accepted..YET!!!🙂

I hear a lot of talk about the SMP....but I think I need to re-take my org chm II--i got a D--my only n 1st D...b4 I do a SMP....

If I transcribed to you all's theory...I'd need 3yrs....2yr post-bacc and 1yr SMP...just to roll dice on med school again-----I so do not want to be 26---just trying to start out my career---👎--if I can HELP it...just my opinion

Some others prescribe to the notion of taking ugrad classes and upper level science courses to try to raise gpa...but I have 141 hrs already...is there a limit?

I recently looked upon Emory--in ATL--top 20 med school--considered a "new Ivy" by Newsweek---and it'll be GR8T--I would love to go there---its close enough but far enough from home----but its pretty much in same league as my hometown state---they are both in Top 20...both have a avg gpa for med students @ 3.6-3.7 and MCAT 30-33. I looked @ Emory for a post-bacc or SMP---but they didnt have it neither does my hometown school of UAB. Emory does have this awesome B.S. program of Neuroscience and Behavioral Biology and I emailed them hoping I could transfer and do that option in 2-2 1/2 years---they have awesome clinical practium class within ER dept--you interact w/patients--do clinical trials--etc; program also help cater to ur need if pre-med u can take upper level science classes in addition to the major--etc--have research and study abroad opportunites too--etc; In essence--it has everything I NEED and MORE---HOWeVER, the sad PART is Emory does not ALLOW ppl to get a second bachelor degree...so I would have to get a Master's..yet they do not have a science/medical based masters' program!!!!😡

I empathize w/poster anachr--sp; bc med schools love to sell the BS that its the "whole app" they look @ but they screen more ppl than govt!!!!! No pun intended!!! 🙁

So If anyone can give me some GOOD advice---b/c everyone does not fit same MOLD---dont give me any cookie-cutter advice...b/c despite the low gpa; the --science-- was not hard 2 me---I just took 2 many demanding classes at same time---the only hard classes truly was Physics😱

So, I said all this to say this...if I could avoid 3yrs...I'd pay A MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!😀... I would like advice on the BEST way someone in my shoes should go about revamping herself to get into medical school........

All POSITIVE feedback welcomed

1) That was one of the worst written statements I have ever read in my entire life and did not improve my opinion of your chances. Throwing in the MD vs. DO thing makes me suspect a troll, but I'll give a straight answer anyway.

2) Min tim to get in could have been 1 year, with a high MCAT, followed by an SMP. Unfortunately it is now too late to take the MCAT for this cycle, so in your case you're probably looking at a 1 year postbac (during which time you'll take the MCAT) followed by a 1 year SMP. And then, yes, there's a good chancee you'll have a 'gap' year, so that would make 3 years. You also have the option of taking the MCAT this fall and starting at the Caribbean this spring. There's a very good chance you'll either fail out or not match, though.

3) Your various other career plans are just that: other career plans. It won't particularly help you get into medical school to be a nurse, or EMT, or whatever. If the program to do that makes you ace a lot of undergrad courses, that WILL help, but no more than if you had picked up a biochem minor.

4) You don't want this to take a long time. That's a shame. If it helps, at my medical school the average matriiculant is 24, and the oldest is 36. You wouldn't feel at all out of place at 26.

5) I have no idea what Emory has to do with any of this, but you're not going there. You're next chance to attend Emory will be when you apply for residencies.

Advice:

Honestly? With an 18Q? Focus on the MCAT first. Not just because you want to get it over with, but also because you need to fiind out if you can pass it at all. Take a formal review course, devote 6 hours a day minimum to studying, and generally give it both barrels. If you can get a good MCAT great, plan on starting an SMP a year from this coming august. If not, consider that this might not be the career for you. This is a standardized tested profession and if you can't pass standardized tests it's hard to see how this is going to work.

In any event, G'luck.

 

[IowaDoc2B]

I would agree... the MCAT seems to be a cornerstone to medical school placement. AND, it's not only crucial to have a solid score to get into medical school, but you need a good/decent score just to get into most post-baccs and SMPs. So... start with the MCAT and work from there.

 

[klassicBeauty]

1

 

[DrMidlife]

LOL

Sweetie, you just sassed some good, solid, free advice from somebody who made it into MD school from where you are now. Get over yourself.

And for the love of all that's holy, lose the IM speak. It makes you come across as a 13 year old. If you want to be taken seriously, act like an adult.

 

[hung]

I applaud her optimism. She is going to need it to climb out of the hole she is in.