The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

[Andres Ponce]

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[EagerBeaver]

Here are my stats:

Canadian Applicant

Physiology-UG CGPA 3.07
Last two years - CGPA was higher just the first year was rock bottom (1.53 😱 but I do show a consistent improvement each semester after that)

MCAT 29 O - 9 vr 9 ps 11 bs <--- Going to retake that, as that score is the same score I got on my first diagnostic test without studying (Was working approx 80 hrs/week in the lab during the summer, didn't get to study for it, well not more than 2 days) I know I can do much better with studying.

Research experience in a lab (didn't get a publication as data didn't make it into the paper, project took a different direction after I left the lab) + Shadowing (Scrubbed in for neurosurgery (2007) / Observed Colonoscopies Prof performed(2009)) + Volunteering in clinics overseas + Volunteer experience teaching mentally handicapped children + Exec positions in UG Clubs + TA for courses + Private Tutoring

I am wondering if I should do a second UG or a Masters Degree (MPH or MSC in Biostats etc) to make-up for the low GPA? Any advice on what else I should be doing to improve my chances?

 

[deleted248403]

Beaver - assuming you've done the pre-reqs, which it sounds like you have, you should do any SMP that will take you.

Tho you might need some more UG classes to raise your GPA to get into the better ones. Tho you'll have a shot at some of the lower SMPs

 

[EagerBeaver]

If you are going to do a MS then do an SMP!!! Otherwise more ugrad classes. you can also look into postbac ugrad course options like the Upenn SSP program too. But you sound ideal for SMPs. May get waitlisted at a few before getting in one but apply broadly and one will pan out sooner or later. EVMS, BU MAMS, Gtown SMP though they would prefer a 32+ MCAT I tend to think, Tufts MBS, UCincy MS in Physio, RFU BMS are the ones I'd look into. Good luck. Do reconsider retaking the MCAT if you can especially for canadian schools. Good luck.

The only issue is that I can do a Second UG for the cost of $6000 tuition for the two years while and SMP is close to $40K for a year. A MSc as canadian resident would still be cheaper in Canada than an SMP also...plus staying in canada for another year makes me eligible for Canadian citizenship which will help out when it comes to loans for med school.

 

[Macktasty]

Hello everyone. I just graduated from Penn State in May with a 2.65 GPA, dual majoring in Econ and Health Policy. Currently, I work for a health care advocacy firm. I have close to 500 hours of volunteering at University of Pennsylvania hospital. I've taken very few science classes. From what I gather, my grades are not strong enough for a formal post bacc. I believe that it may be more difficult for me to go MD, and should perhaps focus on DO instead? Any one know anything about PCOM admissions for someone with my background?

What is the best way to go about doing this.. take the pre-reqs at a community college, or at a local Penn State branch campus?

From what I understand, I need to take my pre-reqs and get 4.0s. Then I need to shadow a physician and get some clinical volunteering experience. Any advice?

 

[somedaydoc13]

Ok, here's my story: I'm grateful for any help anyone can give...

Graduated in 3.5 years (after switching out of the Engineering school) with a BS in Neuroscience and BA in Anthropology

Ugrad cum GPA-3.2, BCPM-2.8 or 2.9
Since graduation I've been taking a few upper level bio's and gotten nearly a 4.0, but my undergrad trend is a complete rollercoaster (I have had some major family difficulties, but I feel I've resolved these issues and can now get the grades I've always known I'm capable of!)

MCAT- 29O (8PS, 11BS, 20V) and then 30P (8PS, 10BS, 12V)

I think my EC's are good: 2 years of ugrad research, full time research tech since graduating (1 year so far), clinical experience in an artificial heart program at my university's hospital, high school lacrosse coach, 2 hospital volunteer experiences, lots of other non-medical volunteering/fundraising, I think my only EC thats lacking is shadowing

I've applied to the last MD app cycle and I'm still waiting to hear back from some schools but I applied kind of late so I'm not exactly expecting good news. Soooooo, what next? SMP, Post-Bacc, Retake the MCAT for a third time (I'll admit that I've hardly studied for it in the past due to other commitments and poor timing on my part)??? If I go the post bacc or SMP route, when should I reapply to med school? Ok, thats it, thanks in advance for the help!

 

[somedaydoc13]

Ok, here's my story: I'm grateful for any help anyone can give...

Graduated in 3.5 years (after switching out of the Engineering school) with a BS in Neuroscience and BA in Anthropology

Ugrad cum GPA-3.2, BCPM-2.8 or 2.9
Since graduation I've been taking a few upper level bio's and gotten nearly a 4.0, but my undergrad trend is a complete rollercoaster (I have had some major family difficulties, but I feel I've resolved these issues and can now get the grades I've always known I'm capable of!)

MCAT- 29O (8PS, 11BS, 20V) and then 30P (8PS, 10BS, 12V)

I think my EC's are good: 2 years of ugrad research, full time research tech since graduating (1 year so far), clinical experience in an artificial heart program at my university's hospital, high school lacrosse coach, 2 hospital volunteer experiences, lots of other non-medical volunteering/fundraising, I think my only EC thats lacking is shadowing

I've applied to the last MD app cycle and I'm still waiting to hear back from some schools but I applied kind of late so I'm not exactly expecting good news. Soooooo, what next? SMP, Post-Bacc, Retake the MCAT for a third time (I'll admit that I've hardly studied for it in the past due to other commitments and poor timing on my part)??? If I go the post bacc or SMP route, when should I reapply to med school? Ok, thats it, thanks in advance for the help!

oh, and I'm from Pennsylvania, so I'm pretty much screwed as far as the in-state advantage goes haha

 

[deleted248403]

Someday - your next step would be an SMP. Your stats are too low to be competitive for MD, and you are still a long show for a DO. However, with a good year of SMP grades under your belt - you'd be in a much better position.

Macktasty - You'll need to do a year or so of classes, and then apply to an SMP. With a 2.65 GPA, you arent competitive for any US-based med school and probably not decent foreign ones either. Have you taken the pre-preqs? If not, then I suggest you take them at a 4-yr institution and get north of a 3.7. Then consider applying for an SMP as your very poor GPA will hold you back. You'll need a good year of pre-reqs and an SMP and you'd have a shot

 

[Macktasty]

Someday - your next step would be an SMP. Your stats are too low to be competitive for MD, and you are still a long show for a DO. However, with a good year of SMP grades under your belt - you'd be in a much better position.

Macktasty - You'll need to do a year or so of classes, and then apply to an SMP. With a 2.65 GPA, you arent competitive for any US-based med school and probably not decent foreign ones either. Have you taken the pre-preqs? If not, then I suggest you take them at a 4-yr institution and get north of a 3.7. Then consider applying for an SMP as your very poor GPA will hold you back. You'll need a good year of pre-reqs and an SMP and you'd have a shot

From what I understand, DO schools count the grades of your retakes when calculating GPA. If that is the case, I have a 2.85. Still not great, but a lot better than a 2.65. Does this help me at all?
If I take all the pre-reqs and get straight A's.. my cum gpa will be a 3.02. If I retake a single math class, we're talking a 3.1!
Would I still need an SMP in that instance for a osteopathic schooling?

Also, how about taking some courses online? I know I need labwork, but if I could take physics or something online through Penn State? Any insight on online classes?

 

[deleted248403]

Yes you will still need an SMP. The avg GPA for DO is a 3.45 i believe (definitely north of 3.4) and you'd be a looong way from the avg GPA. You'd have a chance, but i wouldn't like your odds. This is all assuming you get straight As in the pre-reqs, which is no easy accomplishment, and no offense but your existing GPA doesn't indicate you'll get it.

Online classes won't really help unless you've got a damn good reason for taking them. I.e. - you are abroad, you live in the middle of nowhere, you are sick and cannot leave bed, etc etc.

You need a year or two of pre-reqs and rock them, then you need an SMP, and then you might have a shot at DO

 

[Macktasty]

Yes you will still need an SMP. The avg GPA for DO is a 3.45 i believe (definitely north of 3.4) and you'd be a looong way from the avg GPA. You'd have a chance, but i wouldn't like your odds. This is all assuming you get straight As in the pre-reqs, which is no easy accomplishment, and no offense but your existing GPA doesn't indicate you'll get it.

Online classes won't really help unless you've got a damn good reason for taking them. I.e. - you are abroad, you live in the middle of nowhere, you are sick and cannot leave bed, etc etc.

You need a year or two of pre-reqs and rock them, then you need an SMP, and then you might have a shot at DO

Thanks for the insight. It is appreciated. I guess I'm still a long way off. Getting straight A's in the pre-reqs is definitely no easy task, and no offense taken.

So I suppose that having strong EC's is no substitute for a lower GPA?
What about a higher MCAT
It's just hard to make this plunge.. stop working, full time classes, special masters program... all to STILL not have a shot..

 

[Macktasty]

Thanks for the insight. It is appreciated. I guess I'm still a long way off. Getting straight A's in the pre-reqs is definitely no easy task, and no offense taken.

So I suppose that having strong EC's is no substitute for a lower GPA?
What about a higher MCAT
It's just hard to make this plunge.. stop working, full time classes, special masters program... all to STILL not have a shot..

Also, what about
http://www.brandywine.psu.edu/CE/29766.htm?cn21D
PSU's "mostly online" postbacc cert?

 

[deleted248403]

Great ECs will make up for being slightly lower than the avg GPA - but not a substantial distance.

A high MCAT would certainly help but again its not a easy test. Not many people have a B- average and then get a 30+ on the MCAT. Just statistically doesn't happen very often - you see it on here sometimes but again this is a skewed sample, you dont see the kids with 2.7 GPAs return when they get a 25-26 MCAT.

If you want this bad enough, you'll do what you have to do to get there. Sounds like you might want to sit down and really think about this. Its no small committment.

I left work and returned for a full year of classes to improve my app. A lot of people are in a similar boat.

You can try applying abroad after you've down the pre-reqs and MCAT, and assuming you do ok you might be able to skip the SMP providing you are ok going abroad. But if you want the U.S. - you've got 2+ years of excellent academic work, and probably a glide year

 

[deleted248403]

Also, what about
http://www.brandywine.psu.edu/CE/29766.htm?cn21D
PSU's "mostly online" postbacc cert?

Sorry missed this when i last posted. So sorry for the double post.

Wouldn't touch it with a pole unless you've got a good reason. And it doesn't sound like you do - not wanting to quit your job isnt a good reason

 

[Macktasty]

Sorry missed this when i last posted. So sorry for the double post.

Wouldn't touch it with a pole unless you've got a good reason. And it doesn't sound like you do - not wanting to quit your job isnt a good reason

So let me review here.
Since, realistically, my best shot is for an osteopathic school.. will they consider my cumulative GPA, or will it be my GPA with re-taken courses factored in and eliminating previous attempts..

If that is in fact the case, having a 2.9 does not put me in such terrible position to make an attempt here in my opinion.

Consider my EC's. They include 500 hours of volunteering at HUP, starting and running a fundraiser for a children's orphanage in Africa, volunteering in planning and running a health fair, working as a Health Advocate, and majoring in Health Policy (Should I consider these EC's). How do they look?

I'm researching physician shadowing and more clinical volunteering at a local hospital, as well as Penn's pre-med volunteering program to bolster my resume.

Plans for the spring and summer:
Shadowing, clinical volunteering and take a course or two of additional math at a local CC
Fall: start my pre-reqs full time.

This is a serious commitment and I am hoping I am on the right track, and if not, someone will tell me hey, you really don't stand a chance here.

 

[deleted248403]

Mactasty - they will look at both your cumulative grades which for DO will incorporate your retaken grades. 2.9 is a terrible position if you are applying to DO school - the average GPA is 3.45 and you are significantly below that.
You have good ECs but not good enough to make up 0.55 in GPA difference.

You are several years away from truly being competitive. If you are seriously about wnating to be an MD/DO, you'll take the years and do it. But you are certainly not competitive to apply right now. Your grades arent good enough to get into SMPs either.

 

[Macktasty]

Mactasty - they will look at both your cumulative grades which for DO will incorporate your retaken grades. 2.9 is a terrible position if you are applying to DO school - the average GPA is 3.45 and you are significantly below that.
You have good ECs but not good enough to make up 0.55 in GPA difference.

You are several years away from truly being competitive. If you are seriously about wnating to be an MD/DO, you'll take the years and do it. But you are certainly not competitive to apply right now. Your grades arent good enough to get into SMPs either.

Rob, I hear ya.. I'm not aiming to apply to med school right now. I realize this is a process. I have taken no pre-reqs, and obviously not the mcat either.

Just looking for more insight if the plans that I'm laying out are in fact going to give me the best shot.

I'm going to add to my volunteering, I'm going to re-take a few classes, take all the pre-reqs on my own and then see where I'm at. Any advice is appreciated, of course...

 

[DrMidlife]

It's just hard to make this plunge.. stop working, full time classes, special masters program..

Hi. I'm your competition. And that's exactly what I did.

all to STILL not have a shot..

Nobody's going to offer you a guarantee, not even if you have a 4.0 and a high MCAT.

So let me review here.
Since, realistically, my best shot is for an osteopathic school.. will they consider my cumulative GPA, or will it be my GPA with re-taken courses factored in and eliminating previous attempts..

Retakes erase former grades from cumulative GPA calculations for DO schools. Old grades are still reported and visible to med schools evaluating you. Expect to need to explain every grade less than B you ever got, yep, at DO school interviews.

If that is in fact the case, having a 2.9 does not put me in such terrible position to make an attempt here in my opinion.

Please do more research. A 2.9 is not competitive for DO schools. As with MD schools, about 60% of well-qualified applicants are rejected every year.

Consider my EC's.

ECs are interesting after you make it past GPA and MCAT autoscreens. Most GPA autoscreens are 3.0. DMU rejected me for having a 2.98 science GPA; their science GPA cutoff is 3.0.

This is a serious commitment and I am hoping I am on the right track, and if not, someone will tell me hey, you really don't stand a chance here.

I recommend that you look for somebody you've worked for to tell you whether you're physician material or not. Your grades say you're not (mine did too). If you can get multiple faculty members and/or employers to recommend you for med school, AND you can improve your GPA, AND you can get a competitive MCAT score (none of this <30 bullcrap, be serious), then you have as good a chance as anyone.

In your shoes, I'd take a night class, at a community college, in as hard a science class as you can find. Maybe biochem or physics, whatever you have the prereqs to do. If you can 4.0 this class, then take the next step. If not, or if you withdraw, then reevaluate your goals.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Macktasty]

Hi. I'm your competition. And that's exactly what I did.

Nobody's going to offer you a guarantee, not even if you have a 4.0 and a high MCAT.

Retakes erase former grades from cumulative GPA calculations for DO schools. Old grades are still reported and visible to med schools evaluating you. Expect to need to explain every grade less than B you ever got, yep, at DO school interviews.

Please do more research. A 2.9 is not competitive for DO schools. As with MD schools, about 60% of well-qualified applicants are rejected every year.


ECs are interesting after you make it past GPA and MCAT autoscreens. Most GPA autoscreens are 3.0. DMU rejected me for having a 2.98 science GPA; their science GPA cutoff is 3.0.


I recommend that you look for somebody you've worked for to tell you whether you're physician material or not. Your grades say you're not (mine did too). If you can get multiple faculty members and/or employers to recommend you for med school, AND you can improve your GPA, AND you can get a competitive MCAT score (none of this <30 bullcrap, be serious), then you have as good a chance as anyone.

In your shoes, I'd take a night class, at a community college, in as hard a science class as you can find. Maybe biochem or physics, whatever you have the prereqs to do. If you can 4.0 this class, then take the next step. If not, or if you withdraw, then reevaluate your goals.

Best of luck to you.

Not sure how to split up the post into fancy separate quotes and responses.

Thanks for the advice.

How far along are you in the process?

Did not mean to imply that a 2.9 was competitive or would give me a shot. Only that I'll have to raise it less than if retakes did not remove previous attempts at the course. Not saying it won't be extremely difficult, either..

I actually work with 4 physicians now.. I'll have to discuss this with one of them at some point.

It's good to know that my EC's are at least "interesting" 🙂

So I'll try to do more volunteering and I'll take a science and math course this summer at a CC, and I'll re-evaluate my position.

 

[mdwanabe]

OK I realize I will probably get a million negative comments back about this post but I'd just like to see if my personal reasoning is biased or not.

Do med schools even care if you've gone through a really crappy, disadvantaged life and you use this to explain your below average GPA? In reading many posts regarding post bac programs and SMPs, it seems that if I have any chances of getting into med school, I'll have to raise my sub 3.0 cGPA to a 3.0 or better, apply to a SMP/post bac, apply then to med school.

I don't want to come across as a martyr or oppressed-like; however, I have gone through some harrowing life experiences that cause most people to stare at my face in disbelief when I explain just a tenth of the full story. Yes, I know life is not fair, but I would have thought that people with a 'story' would be cut some type of break. I am not asking for a med school acceptance with a 2.0 and 20 MCAT...I mean, am I seriously *not* even going to be taken seriously with a 2.99 and a 30 MCAT (if I apply with these stats)? I am willing to put in reasonable amounts of hard work to show that I am capable of the work required by me as a physician, but does anyone else concur when I say I think it's a little unfair for one to have to jump through a million more hoops than the 'average' Joe because life dealt you a bad hand??

I want to reiterate that I am not trying to offend anyone, I know that everyone has problems, to put things into perspective, my college counselor (psychiatric, not academic) often said: "I really don't know how you have managed to stay in school despite everything you've gone through."

I'd appreciate feedback...just please don't bite off my head!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[deleted248403]

mdwanabe - most MD schools have an automatic 3.0 cutoff in which you application doesnt even leave the computer. Thus, stories about your life can't be heard. Interesting stories can make up for a lower GPA - but not as much as you want.

 

[DbDan]

Alright so I did this a year ago (i think) but I figured it would be good to try to check out what you all think.

Male
Ca Resident
Not a URM

GPA:
UCLA 2009 Grad in Physiological Science
cGPA: MD 2.73 // DO 2.77
sGPA: MD 2.67 // DO 2.76

Did a summer at UCI with 2 classes and got a 4.0 in those two classes (1 psych because i needed a LOR and 1 retake of a chem class)
Current GPA:
cGPA: MD 2.78 // DO 2.82
sGPA: MD 2.70 // DO 2.80
ao GPA: MD 2.98 // DO 2.83 (not sure how this is lower than MD but whatever its off my apps from this cycle)

MCAT: 33N (11,11,11)

Extracirriculars:
1yr Volunteer Microbiology Research (no publications, project was continued when I graduated by other people in lab and was submitted as an investigational new drug to FDA)
2.5yrs working as a manager as a student
5yrs fraternity w/ multiple positions including many community service projects
Currently working at a Hospital in a tech position involving direct patient contact (~30hrs/wk)
4months working at a Dr.'s office with a DO (28 hrs/wk)
2yrs Church HS small group leader
Various conference attendances through major
All together I have about 1000hrs and counting of direct patient contact and I'm not sure how to quantify shadowing since I work closely with the doctors

LORs:
1 Stellar LOR from the PI of my lab
3x Science LORs (1 of which I know is great from professor I knew from work, outside of class/school, etc.)
1 Non-science LOR from my psych professor who did not know me very well, can't be fantastic but I have no way of knowing and I haven't taken a humanities course in 3+ years.

Story
I started at UCLA as an electrical engineering major and was subsequently stuck in the Physics/Chemistry series that are designed for engineers, heavily calculus based physics and chemistry that has little to know life science correlation and is almost entirely form this molecule for organic chemistry (something I was not good at, obviously). My 3rd year I switched to Physiological Science and my GPA improved fairly significantly. It was a cut throat major and prepared me well (IMO) for med school with a curriculum based heavily in systems anatomy and physiology. Getting to take courses in biomechanics of injury as well as work with prosected cadavers is something that I really valued. Despite this, I graduated with a very sub-par GPA. It took me 4 years and 2 quarters to graduate with my GPA each year being: c2.43/s2.03, c1.8/s2.0, c2.93/s2.58, c3.18/s3.1, c3.24/s3.24.

My problem now is that I have 219 units of work and to even qualify for SMPs (most of which have a 3.0 GPA requirement) it would take me 50 units of 4.0 work on top of what I have already done. Since I have to work full time to support myself as well, I am looking at another 2 years (already out 1) of 4.0 work to even qualify to spend another year and boatload of money on an SMP to then MAYBE get admitted to med school with a low GPA.

I did apply this year and my MDapplicants profile can be seen under my name. With 10 schools left to hear from, fairly late in the cycle at this point and 2 interviews with 2 wait lists it is looking like I am going to be re-applying next year and potentially the following in that event.

So basically my question is this. How would you all approach this? I have an opportunity to possibly get my master's degree in physiological science at UCLA (requirements for masters is >3.0 for last 90 quarter units, I have a 3.2xx) but I've been told that a masters degree will almost definitely not help in your pursuit of medical school acceptance. Am I pretty much SOL at this point for MDs (especially due to my Ca residency) and should I resign myself to going the DO route? Are there any SMPs that you would suggest that perhaps do not have the 3.0 GPA requirement and still have a good record of placing med students? In all honesty I slacked off in undergrad and I'm confident that I can succeed in med school. I wanted to specialize and the fact that DOs are fairly pidgeon-holed to primary care is frustrating to me, despite the fact that I like their philosophy.

 

[DrMidlife]

So basically my question is this. How would you all approach this?

SMP. Definitely. I'm in the same undergrad GPA boat.

I have an opportunity to possibly get my master's degree in physiological science at UCLA (requirements for masters is >3.0 for last 90 quarter units, I have a 3.2xx) but I've been told that a masters degree will almost definitely not help in your pursuit of medical school acceptance.

True. If med school is your goal, traditional grad work won't help you at all. In cases where two candidates have similar competitive undergrad GPAs, then it might make a difference.

Am I pretty much SOL at this point for MDs (especially due to my Ca residency) and should I resign myself to going the DO route?

Not necessarily, but it depends on how much more you want to invest in a maybe.

Are there any SMPs that you would suggest that perhaps do not have the 3.0 GPA requirement and still have a good record of placing med students?

EVMS. Definitely. But apply widely and broadly and see what happens. You might do fine at RFU or Drexel or NYMC. In your shoes I would spend this weekend applying to all the MD SMPs and a few DO SMPs.

I wanted to specialize and the fact that DOs are fairly pidgeon-holed to primary care is frustrating to me, despite the fact that I like their philosophy.

OK, you're totally off the planet here. DO has its problems, but specialization and philosophy are myths. DOs match into fancy-pants specialties, all the ROADEs, plastics, ortho, neurosurg etc. The "DO philosophy" is marketing bullcrap; the only thing osteo manipulation is going to do for you, realistically, is help you get through anatomy. DOs get on surgery faculty at places like Dartmouth Northwestern UWash and Vermont. The only legitimate reason to avoid doing DO is to avoid stigma, and that would be a lame reason to give up on medicine.

If you can make friends with DO, then do some thorough research on which DO schools have stronger reputations, and plan on doing a DO SMP if you don't get into an MD SMP.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DbDan]

OK, you're totally off the planet here. DO has its problems, but specialization and philosophy are myths. DOs match into fancy-pants specialties, all the ROADEs, plastics, ortho, neurosurg etc. The "DO philosophy" is marketing bullcrap; the only thing osteo manipulation is going to do for you, realistically, is help you get through anatomy. DOs get on surgery faculty at places like Dartmouth Northwestern UWash and Vermont. The only legitimate reason to avoid doing DO is to avoid stigma, and that would be a lame reason to give up on medicine.

If you can make friends with DO, then do some thorough research on which DO schools have stronger reputations, and plan on doing a DO SMP if you don't get into an MD SMP.

Best of luck to you.

This is just what I have observed by looking at match rates, etc. I have applied DO and I would be more than willing to go to one and work my ass off to get the specialty I wanted. I'm far from throwing away my desire to be a physician just to have the letters MD at the end of my name. I'm just saying I haven't seen any Plastics, Neuro, Anesthesiology matches at most places and for the most part the percentage of specialties are far lower in comparison to MD schools.

I got an interesting experience working in the Dr's office since the owner was top of his class at georgetown and was a neurosurgeon, the main Dr. was a DO and the weekend Dr was a FMG. I got to speak with all of them. I'm still trying to figure out if DOs place such a high percentage of family practice because thats what the students there want or simply because they aren't nearly as competitive for specialized fields.

Thank you for your advice about the SMPs, I likely will spend the rest of the week/weekend applying to them. It just seemed like a lost cause considering the stringent 3.0 cutoff for the majority of the major ones.

 

[TyrKinase]

With 10 schools left to hear from, fairly late in the cycle at this point and 2 interviews with 2 wait lists it is looking like I am going to be re-applying next year and potentially the following in that event.

So basically my question is this. How would you all approach this?

If you're set on being an MD and you're interested in attending Tulane SOM, you may want to consider applying to the Tulane Anatomy Certification Program (ACP). The only requirement is a waitlist letter (MD or DO). Practically all (~95%) of ACP students are accepted into Tulane the following year. Also, it's (relatively) cheap: $12,500 vs ~$24,000 for lots of other 'full' SMPs.

More info: http://www.som.tulane.edu/scb/acpinfo.htm

 

[DbDan]

If you're set on being an MD and you're interested in attending Tulane SOM, you may want to consider applying to the Tulane Anatomy Certification Program (ACP). The only requirement is a waitlist letter (MD or DO). Practically all (~95%) of ACP students are accepted into Tulane the following year. Also, it's (relatively) cheap: $12,500 vs ~$24,000 for lots of other 'full' SMPs.

More info: http://www.som.tulane.edu/scb/acpinfo.htm

Thanks! I actually just finished drafting an e-mail to the contact on the bottom asking if there was more information than what was on the website since it seems outdated and asking if osteopathic qualified. I will definitely be applying to the program this week knowing that they do accept DO as the wait list.

Looking I think I may also apply to EVMS and Drexel. I just have problems spending 36k a year for RFU before I ever get to med school and NYMC is 3.0 req. Price I have to pay I guess though 😳

 

[DbDan]

I would go to RFU far before I'd go to Drexel. Drexel is cheaper but it doesn't have the same success rates as EVMS or RFU. Choose one of those two if you don't do Tulane ACP or Gtown or BU or Tufts programs or Cincy.

Those are all of the better programs. I don't particularly hear good things about Drexel from people on here. RFU is like EVMS in that it has high linkage rate. I have a friend there who loved it and made it to med school post the program.

Thanks, I haven't heard the greatest things about Drexel either. I hadn't really heard much about RFU before the suggestions in here. Unfortunately I don't qualify for Gtown, BU, Tufts or Cincy as all of them require a 3.0GPA and like I said, I don't have that and it would take another 1-2 years of 4.0 work to even qualify to apply to one of them.

I think i'm going to spend my day today doing EVMS and RFU applications, possibly Drexel but I need to do some research. I e-mailed about Tulane's ACP but they haven't updated the info yet. Shannon said she will save my e-mail and hopefully send me one in a couple weeks with the updated information.

Thanks for your help

EDIT: Went ahead and called around to some schools about GPA requirements and such to check on what the SMP thread said. I was encouraged to apply by both Tufts and Cincy with my 2.8GPA and 33MCAT so I will be applying there. I sent out e-mails to Georgetown to check on their GPA requirement and admission standards as well as inquire about their new Certificate program that opens this year and is running with George Mason. I'll likely be applying to EVMS, RFU, Tulane, Tufts and Cincy perhaps Georgetown depending on what I hear back from them

 

[itrancynger]

So I graduated last Spring with a 3.33 from Wesleyan University, a liberal arts college which receives more funding than all others, with PhD programs in the natural sciences. I double majored in Neuroscience and their Science in Society program (philosophy, sociology and history of scientific theory and practice), and to my regret, I didn't do a thesis. I had no clue what I wanted to do after graduation, and I have been working odd jobs and volunteering ever since. At some point in the last month, I decided it was time to get serious about my life, which meant sucking it up and getting ready for the inevitable. (I always knew in the back of my head that I wanted to go to med school, its just difficult for someone as indecisive as me)

I took all the pre-med requirements and right now I'm studying for the April MCAT. My gpa is not terrible, but I want to be as competitive as possible when I apply to med school. I was lazy as hell as an undergraduate up until my last semester (gpa = 3.85), when I finally hit my stride ad learned how to use my time wisely. My only other great semester was one in which I took Bio (w/lab), O.Chem (w/inorg. lab), and Intro to Neuro and pulled off a 3.8. (I was depressed and less social than normal). Now, here comes the question: Should I do a post-bacc or should I take courses as a non-degree student? Here are my pre-med course grades:

Bio: B+, A-
Chem/O.Chem: A-,B+ / A-,B+
Phys: B (w/calc), C+ (w/o calc)...(yes you read that correctly)
Calc: C (my worst grade in ugrad...though i got an A in psych stats)

As I said, I'm studying for the MCAT, so by the time I'm ready for them I'll have already gone over most the material for a second time, so I want to spend the least amount of money possible during the third go. That being said, I'm a Massachusetts resident who does not like Boston all that much, and am currently residing in NYC. For non-residents, 1,200 dollars per course at CUNY is a lot. However, compared to med school tuition 1200 is nothing and I don't have too much of a problem riding out the debt train until I'm 45.

Should I try to do a full program or should I just take 4-6 courses, get A's (I'm taking this seriously now), and apply? With a 3.33, and a medium level of extracurricular experience, what score on the MCATs would make me competitive?

 

[DrMidlife]

So I graduated last Spring...

This pretty much covers it: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9172632&postcount=955

 

[Psych3]

Hi, this thread is great.

I just graduated with a B.S in Psychology with a 3.1 GPA
The only science classes I took were General & Environmental Biology (B's)
Math: B in Stats/C in Calculus
No experience (research, volunteer...)

My plan is to
-Find a Postbacc program to take the prereqs
-Volunteer/Shadow/Research experience
-MCAT

Any advice on my chances and how long before I can apply to Med school?

Thank you!

 

[DrMidlife]

The only problem is that the state they are a resident of is a place with 3 out of the 4 schools there being competitive schools so a lot would depend on the MCAT score too and where you are applying.

I'd say 4 out of 4 are competitive in MA, but UMass does have a powerful instate bias.

I wouldn't try for the good NY schools with a sub-3.5 GPA, regardless of MCAT.

 

[deleted248403]

UMass med doesnt accept out-of-state unless its for their MD-PhD program

 

[DrMidlife]

I'm sure their aim is not Columbia, NY, Mt. Sinai so much as could be SUNYs as well which are more in state focused though do take out of staters to some degree.

Coming from Wellesley, the thought of going to a SUNY or NYMC will be appalling. How do you feel about Buffalo, itrancynger?

Doesn't matter, he/she stated MA residency.

 

[deleted248403]

Ah missed that DrMidlife - sorry

 

[jmkgoll]

I'm desperatly looking for a formal post bac that would take me (preferably at DO schools).
Does anyone know how programs like PCOM or LECOM look at repeated grades for post bac admission. I've unfortunately repeated several C and D grades and excluding the old grades my GPA is ~3, otherwise around 2.5 🙁 also my MCAT is 29. Anyone with similar stats got in a formal post bac?
I appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks

 

[DrHillerStyle]

Thank you gujuDoc, Dr. Midlife, and others for providing helpful answers here. I've been following threads like this for the past few months as I await responses for med interviews (and have been getting a whole slew of rejections). My hopes weren't high, to say the least, but still hoping to get a shot somewhere.

Still, it's not surprising considering I have a sub 3.0 GPA. In fact, it's:

MD-2.58 cGPA; 2.81 BCPM
DO-2.68 cGPA; 3.07 BCPM
MCAT: 32S (first try was 27R, one month prior to this one)

My story: I graduated from UCSB, and after a rocky time there due to multiple reasons, I decided never to pursue further education. Went to France. Came back, took a sales job. Then, I had a passing in my family, a young family member, and it frustrated me how helpless I felt. Took classes at a cc and went through growing pains with applying good studying habits. I only was able to establish good habits in my final year, and the months leading up to my MCAT. I have no doubt I will get all As or nearly all As in whatever program I'm in, considering I was always working 30 hours per week with ECs that took up 10+ hours per week. At the very least, I can be sure that I can devote 40 hours outside of class to study.

My plan: take undergrad classes in advanced science courses for 1-2 years then apply to SMP and be there for a year. Then, apply to DO schools.

My question: which programs would provide formal advanced science courses so I can boost up my undergrad GPA? I read UPenn has one. True? Most of the other programs I've seen made mention here are SMPs...

I figure I need to raise my GPA as close to 3.0 as much as possible, then apply to DO. To those who have had first-hand experience in these matters of planning and executing, what do you guys think?

Lastly, I am a CA resident, and my newlywed wife and I want to move to another state at end of 2010. Our hopeful long-term destinations are: Philly, other east coast states, Chicago, IL, or Arizona...if that's worth anything.

Thanks ahead of time for any feedback. If it's deemed I need to do more leg work in researching this, so be it.

 

[DrHillerStyle]

You don't necessarily need a formal program so if one doesn't take you I'd do it at any university where you can that is a 4 year university.

Harvard Extension is the only formal one I see that's not a formal postbac meant for career changers who've not done prereqs only. The others i see thrown around seem to be for people who have not done the prereqs.

Thanks! Will look into Harvard Extension.

How feasible is it to apply to a 4 year university, with the intent on taking only a year's worth of science classes? And the financial aid (if any) that comes with this? I'm going to look to apply to some place in Philly...

gujuDoc: would you recommend going to a pre-med formal post bacc program? I took all of my pre-reqs at a cc, though I re-took the one year of chemistry and one semester of ochem. I wonder if taking it at a formal program after having taken the whole complement at a cc would be frowned upon? You also spoke of "programs"...do you mean SMP programs?

Any others with advice?

Thanks again...I'd really like a destination for this fall semester.

 

[deleted248403]

If you've done the pre-reqs than HES isn't a good option as its not truly geared for upper level science courses. They regularly call and explain this and off your application fee back if you want it.

So I wouldnt do HES.

I also don't consider CC as having done the pre-reqs and would re-do them at a 4yr university. But thas just me

 

[DrHillerStyle]

If you've done the pre-reqs than HES isn't a good option as its not truly geared for upper level science courses. They regularly call and explain this and off your application fee back if you want it.

So I wouldnt do HES.

I also don't consider CC as having done the pre-reqs and would re-do them at a 4yr university. But thas just me

Would anyone else second what robflanker is saying here? Because if it's commonly accepted, especially with adcoms, maybe I can go with a straight up pre-med post bacc program. Thoughts?

To be honest, this would be a very clean and neat solution for me, in theory. Since, it would boost my undergrad GPA...and I may even be able to opt out of having to do an SMP, by doing really well in the post bacc program and then applying to DO schools. Thoughts?

Thanks robflanker!

 

[deleted248403]

DrMidlife feels relatively the same as I do about CC - you are just going to have a hard time convincing an adcom (in my mind, and if i were on the adcom) that your A from CC is equivalent to an A from someone in my program here at UPenn. They just aren't equal in mind.

So you are in a tricky situation where you've technically done the pre-reqs and thus may not qualify for one of the true post-bacs. Ideally, you should retake them but I don't think you'll get into a formal program. You should consider trying to take them at a state university near where you end up living. That way it will be cheap and you get to have done them at a "respectable" place.

Not sure how it'll affect your GPA seen as you repeating the same classes but if you retook them all and rocked them 3.7+; then i think you'll leave little doubt in an adcom's mind that you can handle rudimentary science

 

[DrHillerStyle]

DrMidlife feels relatively the same as I do about CC - you are just going to have a hard time convincing an adcom (in my mind, and if i were on the adcom) that your A from CC is equivalent to an A from someone in my program here at UPenn. They just aren't equal in mind.

So you are in a tricky situation where you've technically done the pre-reqs and thus may not qualify for one of the true post-bacs. Ideally, you should retake them but I don't think you'll get into a formal program. You should consider trying to take them at a state university near where you end up living. That way it will be cheap and you get to have done them at a "respectable" place.

Not sure how it'll affect your GPA seen as you repeating the same classes but if you retook them all and rocked them 3.7+; then i think you'll leave little doubt in an adcom's mind that you can handle rudimentary science

robflanker, I truly appreciate your lengthy reply there. It was very, very helpful. I have another for you: since Philly is at the top of the destinations for my wife and I, could you recommend several state schools in and around Philly that you'd recommend? Specifically, ones that may be kind to new students...as in, I won't be at much of a risk to fight/petition for every pre-req course.

Thanks! If this is too much work, I'd also appreciate a point in the right direction.

 

[DrMidlife]

I grew up in walking distance from UCSB. Halloween in Isla Vista right after they burned the Bank of America down in the 1970's was unbelievable.

I also don't consider CC as having done the pre-reqs and would re-do them at a 4yr university. But thas just me

Depends imho. If you start at a CC, and do your prereqs there, and go on to do upper div science at a 4yr university, and your cumulative GPA is solid (as in 3.5+), then who cares where you took the prereqs.

In a GPA comeback you have to take the high road the rest of the way. CC is the low road.

Would anyone else second what robflanker is saying here?

Seconded.

Because if it's commonly accepted, especially with adcoms, maybe I can go with a straight up pre-med post bacc program. Thoughts?

With your GPA you can't get into a good premed postbac program unless you're URM. But look at the UC postbacs anyway. See the GPA enhancement program list stickied at the top of the forum.

DrMidlife feels relatively the same as I do about CC - you are just going to have a hard time convincing an adcom (in my mind, and if i were on the adcom) that your A from CC is equivalent to an A from someone in my program here at UPenn. They just aren't equal in mind.

Yep, but in the case where there's no GPA damage, CC transcripts are neutral. The point is whether your package of academic records and test scores proves that you're ready for medical school or not. A CC record won't pull down an app; it just doesn't do anything to lift it up. In a GPA comeback, you can't ever get a competitive GPA, so you have to do something academically impressive to counter your damage. CC is not going to get this done.

So you are in a tricky situation where you've technically done the pre-reqs and thus may not qualify for one of the true post-bacs. Ideally, you should retake them but I don't think you'll get into a formal program. You should consider trying to take them at a state university near where you end up living. That way it will be cheap and you get to have done them at a "respectable" place.

I disagree that retaking the prereqs is mandatory, if you got C's or better, because you have a decent MCAT. But you absolutely have to get that GPA up over 3.0 and show 3.7 or better work in upper div science, in addition to possibly doing an SMP.

Note that your MCAT score will be expired by the time your GPA is a 3.0.

My advice: apply for a 2nd bachelors degree at a public school so that you have financial aid, registration priority and access to prehealth activities. If you do this, you are responsible to finish the bachelors degree or get permission from your future SMP or med school to not finish it. It doesn't matter what you get the 2nd BS in as long as you take plenty of upper div science.

Also, call some of the DO schools that have sort-of-SMPs. If you can get some decent advising from one of these programs (which means you have to fight past whoever answers the phone, they don't have the answer, get faculty to talk to you) you might be able to use this as a shortcut. Start with PCOM. I think Western has a program too.

Best of luck to you.

 

[deleted248403]

Good responses by DrMidlife. I do enjoy going back and forth lol

Anyways, DrHillerStyle - what grades did you get in the pre-reqs at CC? Your GPA is below 3.0 you say, so did you get Cs at CC? This should be clarified before we go much further.

As for state schools around Philly, i'm not really aware of any. They are all private schools. Have a look if Penn State has a satellite campus out this way. If you live on the NJ-side of the river, you can take classes at Rutgers-Camden but then you'd be living in Camden...

 

[deleted248403]

Guju - HES does have some upper level, just not a lot from what the assistant director told me.
Definitely agreed the cheapest way to go is public 4-yr and is just as effective as formal (minus linkage options)

 

[DrHillerStyle]

Thanks again for everyone who chimed in here guys. I've been able to cull one more option I did not seriously think about (second bachelors), and have been able to get a clearer picture of what lays before me.

DrMidLife: That's cool that you were born near UCSB. I miss Santa Barbara. I wish I had all my eggs more in a row so I could have made more use of my time there. At any rate, nostalgia is still sweet. Haha, I do remember the t-shirts sold at our campus bookstore, referencing our undefeated football team (because it was non-existent).

Info on my CC experience: I had a 3.4 sGPA...I stupidly took calc, physics, and ochem in one year...and got a C, B, B. One thing I did benefit from that initial act of stupidity was nailing down my study habits...but I did not reap the benefits from it fully, at least grades-wise, until the following 6 classes with As, and then the MCAT. I went from studying 10 hours per week to 30-50 hours per week...not including work and time in class.

More questions (I ask these because I do not believe I can answer these myself without hours of leg work): 1) why are you guys certain that a 4 year stint at a second bachelors would be cheaper than going SMP or pre-med post bacc (if I get in)? I would be OOS and wouldn't that rachet up my tuition fees? 2) DrMidLife: what's the success rate, or at least, how common is it for a med school applicant to be excused from a four year bachelor's commitment?

So far, I will look into the second bachelors after seeing if these questions can be answered...and focus on osteopathic SMPs.

Again, thank you to everyone that's helped. You guys seem highly knowledgeable, and obviously very forthcoming with that info, so I greatly appreciate. I hope very good things are happening for each of you.

 

[DrMidlife]

1) why are you guys certain that a 4 year stint at a second bachelors would be cheaper than going SMP or pre-med post bacc (if I get in)? I would be OOS and wouldn't that rachet up my tuition fees?

A 2nd bachelors should take about 2 years. In your shoes I'd be looking at majors that fit that schedule (unless you're passionate about baroque harpsichord or whatnot)

You'll be in debt for about a quarter million after med school, which could easily grow to about a half million during residency, so prioritize accordingly.

With a low GPA you should assume that financial responsibility isn't a real option on the way to med school. You can make good small choices, but in the end it's a ridiculous financial decision to go to med school on a GPA comeback.

2) DrMidLife: what's the success rate, or at least, how common is it for a med school applicant to be excused from a four year bachelor's commitment?

I have no idea. Take the 4 year part out of it, anyway.

If you go down the 2nd bachelors path, you should do so with an understanding of some key points in time and how they line up, and be responsible about starting something that you can reasonably finish. When will your GPA be in competitive range and/or when will you be able to apply? When will you need to retake the MCAT? When would a theoretical acceptance from an SMP or med school arrive and where will you be along the path of that bachelors?

Also look at academic fresh start in Texas.

Best of luck to you.

 

[nphara]

My advice: apply for a 2nd bachelors degree at a public school so that you have financial aid, registration priority and access to prehealth activities. If you do this, you are responsible to finish the bachelors degree or get permission from your future SMP or med school to not finish it. It doesn't matter what you get the 2nd BS in as long as you take plenty of upper div science.

Hello everyone. Long time lurker on this forum but never made an account. I have a question for you DrMidlife, if you do not mind answering. Anyone else who has any input is more than welcome to join the discussion.

Q: If you enroll at a public university for a 2nd bachelors, is it necessary for you to complete the 2nd degree?

I ask only because in my situation, I graduated with a ~2.8 GPA (cum. and BSPM). I intended on enrolling as a 2nd bachelors student at a public university for the aforementioned reasons (priority registration, financial aid, pre-health ec's). Ideally, I planned on taking as many upper division science courses needed to reach a 3.0, stop continuing the 2nd degree, and just apply/enter an SMP. I had no intentions on finishing the 2nd degree, until now.

So, do SMP's expect me to complete the 2nd degree? I already have a bachelors degree, so initially I thought it wasn't necessary. I just want to take advantage of the 2nd degree student perks. Of course, if it is required of me to finish the 2nd degree, I will do it. I just would like some opinion on this matter so that I can plan the next few years accordingly. Thank you all for your advice.

 

[DrMidlife]

Q: If you enroll at a public university for a 2nd bachelors, is it necessary for you to complete the 2nd degree?

In applying to med schools or SMPs, you have to list any programs in which you're currently enrolled. The expectation, generally, is that you'll finish what you've started. Usually your acceptance letter specifically says that you're required to finish your current program.

If you want to not complete a program, then you have to get the med school or SMP to allow you to not complete it. In addition you have to get the current school to understand that you're not completing your program and you need to understand how that will show up on your transcript. And you can expect to have to explain, forever, why you didn't finish it. Think residency.

Do people do it? Yes. Should you start a 2nd bachelors without the intent to finish? No.

Best of luck to you.

 

[hisean17]

Hi, I'm looking at applying to DO schools next year. I will be graduating this year and my cumulative GPA will be 3.05, I have already taken the MCAT and received a 31Q. Right now I would like to apply to a SMP for Fall 2010 admission and apply to DO schools while I am in my first year of the SMP. Do I have a decent shot of getting into a DO school for the entering class of 2011 with this plan? Which SMPs would be good for me? I have identified Philadelphia College's program, but I'm having trouble finding info about it on this site. Thanks for the help!

 

[TyrKinase]

If you enroll at a public university for a 2nd bachelors, is it necessary for you to complete the 2nd degree?

With great deference to DrMidlife, I have to toss my two cents in.

I studied at SFSU after earning a BA in the humanities at a different school. It was well understood by both the administration and the professors at SFSU that most post-bacc students at this school enrolled as second degree students were not actually going to complete their degree but instead use the benefits of the program (priority registration, lower fees, etc) to get their credentials up to par and move on. They have since closed down this particular program but only due to the financial constraints facing the Great State of California.

While my GPA situation wasn't recoverable short of about a decade of undergrad work, many of my classmates were able to successfully move from their half-finished second degree and into medical school without any problems whatsoever.