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Agree w/drizzt. The URM programs are competitive too, and a high MCAT gives schools more confidence in you as a candidate.
The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...
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DO schools will forgive an old grade on a retake. MD schools will not. I haven't seen any info on what SMPs do, even though this question gets asked plenty.
But don't get too focused on what gets you into an SMP. Unless you do Temple, you don't have any guarantee that you'll get into the SMP's host med school (and even Temple doesn't exactly guarantee it). Before you start an SMP, you should have a complete, compelling MD or DO app, with the most maximized undergrad GPA and MCAT possible. And you should be emotionally prepared to need more than one app year, even at a good SMP (particularly Gtown or Boston).
At EVMS in particular, the SMP gives you a leg up by guaranteeing you an interview, but that's just an interview, and you can blow it. With EVMS going from private to public you might not have the same chance folks had in the past. What I'm trying to tell you is that on a GPA comeback you never get to relax. (Edit: the following is untrue in general: Residency program directors will question your undergrad numbers too.)
I'm seriously skeptical that the age of your MCAT score kept you out. There are just too many 3.0/30 candidates to choose from.
Such as?
Those are great EC's.
Depending on your state of residence, you might have some luck applying MD at public schools. See my 2007 app for what similar numbers did for me.
Let go of your retakes: you're a 3.1/2.9 unless you go DO.
I don't think EVMS cares about the age of your MCAT. EVMS admits SMP students that they want to send into their med school. Getting waitlisted means you didn't make the sale - and keep in mind there are only 20 seats for 500 apps. If your numbers are below other SMP applicants, you have to win by having a more compelling story. You might want to think about hiring a consultant to help you with your app package, like Judy Colwell or MedEdits. They don't specialize in getting folks into SMPs, but your SMP app is a superset of an MD app.
If you're not going to substantially improve your score, then don't take the test. Prepping for the MCAT repeatedly is an insanely inefficient way to get a good score. Now, you'll need a fresh MCAT regardless, because MD apps will expire your score at 3 years. If you can get a better fresh score in May, sure, that could help you with waitlists, but given your workload that's not going to happen, right?
When you have multiple practice scores above your target, you're ready to take the test. Again, take the test again only ONCE with an eye for possibly multiple app cycles.
Drexel's easy to get into because it doesn't help you very much. I know you want to get going, but if you wait a year and get into a good SMP it'll be worth it.
Again, be ready to need multiple app years. Making plans around avoiding a gap year would not be smart. If you want to go down this path with a low undergrad GPA, you have to take what you can get.
And definitely think about DO.
Best of luck to you.
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No they don't... this is what you submit on ERAS.
Documents from Designated Dean's Office to Program Directors
You may need to obtain these documents and send them to your designated Dean's Office to be scanned and uploaded.
* Medical School Transcripts
* MSPE
* Letters of Recommendation - LoRs
* Wallet-Sized Color Photo (optional)
* ECFMG Status Report (for IMGs only)
* California Application Status Letter (for IMGs only)
* USMLE Transcripts (for IMGs only)
The MSPE, or Dean's letter, has the following pieces for evaluation of the student...
Narrative information regarding the students
overall (rather than course-specific) performance
in the preclinical/basic science curriculum.
Narrative information regarding the students
overall performance on each core clinical clerkship
and elective rotation completed to date, with
a focus on summative, rather than formative,
comments by clerkship/elective directors. This
information should be provided in the chronological
order in which the student completed
each core clinical clerkship and elective rotation.
Information should be provided about the location
of any away elective rotations.
Narrative information about the students level
of initiative, enthusiasm, and ability to self-start
in all curricular components.
An assessment of the students compatibility
with faculty members, peers, other members of
the health care team, and patients during all
curricular components.
Residency directors have plenty to evaluate you on without looking at what you did in UG.
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Awesome to see this. When I started investigating medicine in '05, I saw a whole lot of ug transcript requirements on residency sites. I just looked again at a few and I see a whole lot of "ERAS" now. Whoo hoo!
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Yeah, there's plenty to worry about between doing well in school, boards (3 of em), research, ECs, and some semblance of a life!
Newbie here. Read a lot of posts in this thread and wanted some feedback for myself.
I recently, as in last couple days, have decided I want to go to med school. I started at community college and transferred to upenn. Have a 3.85 from cc and 2.98 (with and incomplete hoping to change to at least a B) from penn. From what I've been reading to get my cum undergrad gpa I have to average all grades together which gives me around a 3.35. I know that's not so low for this thread but I don't think it looks good that I did so poorly after transfering to penn. I got a B- in oceanography and a W and a C in statistics. Other than that no science or math.
I've been looking into the post bac pre health program at penn since they have this penn alumni program that I can take classes through. I'm waiting to here back from them if I can use the penn alumni program admissions process (which is free and no LORs or other bull) to matriculate into the pre health program. I emailed and called them friday afternoon so hopefully I'll know the answer to that by tomorrow.
It'd be awesome if I could get into a linkage with local schools and start next year. Since I didn't have to take the SATs and I was in the 50th percentile in the LSAT I don't know or think i'm that good of a standardized test taker. So I'm a little worried about doing well in the MCATs. I'm really good at memorizing and regurgitating but I can't take a diagnostic exam until I know some science.
My real questions: What do you think my chances are at being admitted in the next year or two? What suggestions do you have for a plan of action? I want to stay in or around philly.
Thanks much 🙂
Damn I just realized I wrote a dissertation. Sorry for that.
I recently, as in last couple days, have decided I want to go to med school. I started at community college and transferred to upenn. Have a 3.85 from cc and 2.98 (with and incomplete hoping to change to at least a B) from penn. From what I've been reading to get my cum undergrad gpa I have to average all grades together which gives me around a 3.35. I know that's not so low for this thread but I don't think it looks good that I did so poorly after transfering to penn. I got a B- in oceanography and a W and a C in statistics. Other than that no science or math.
I've been looking into the post bac pre health program at penn since they have this penn alumni program that I can take classes through. I'm waiting to here back from them if I can use the penn alumni program admissions process (which is free and no LORs or other bull) to matriculate into the pre health program. I emailed and called them friday afternoon so hopefully I'll know the answer to that by tomorrow.
It'd be awesome if I could get into a linkage with local schools and start next year. Since I didn't have to take the SATs and I was in the 50th percentile in the LSAT I don't know or think i'm that good of a standardized test taker. So I'm a little worried about doing well in the MCATs. I'm really good at memorizing and regurgitating but I can't take a diagnostic exam until I know some science.
My real questions: What do you think my chances are at being admitted in the next year or two? What suggestions do you have for a plan of action? I want to stay in or around philly.
Thanks much 🙂
Damn I just realized I wrote a dissertation. Sorry for that.
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It's basically impossible to gague your chances: You have none of the prereqs, let alone an MCAT score. Basically if you're good at science your chances are pretty good, if you're bad at this your chances are bad, but you don't know which you are yet. Being in medical school 2 years from this fall is possible but a long shot since that would involve you getting all your prereqs and the MCAT done in the next 4 semesters. 3 years is more likely, and even that's assuming no major bumps in the road along the way.
Plan of action: either sign up for a formal post-bac program (the one at Penn sounds good) or just find a 4 year college that will let you start taking prereqs. In a couple of semesters you'll have a good idea about whether like the subjects involved in this. While you're doing that shadow a few different kinds of physician (including at least one DO) and start volunteering at a hospital, that will give you an idea idea if you like the profession while completing another necessary part of your application. When you're done with all that you're going to need to take the MCAT (plan to study for a full semester with a minimum of other commitments) followed by a year long application process. BTW, get straight As. That 3.35 should ideally be a 3.5 by the time you're done taking classes.
The important things in this process are to work hard, and to be honest about how much you like what you see. Work hard because with a 3.35 a few terrible grades is going to make the process much longer and harder. Be honest because, well, you don't really know if you'd enjoy this profession yet, and it's a long road. Ask yourself if you might be happier as a PA, a psychologist, or something that isn't related to healthcare at all. This may or may not be the best option for you.
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Thanks, Perrotfish.
I just called penn back and basically I can enroll in the core requirements classes a la carte this summer through the penn alumni without the hassel of the pre health application. However, to benefit from the linkages, committee letter, and mcat prep classes I'd have to apply to the program. I don't remember where I read in this thread that admission was closed for the summer start - that's not true according to the recruiter I spoke with.
Basically I'm going to apply through Penn Alumni and register for classes so I can guarantee a summer 1 start and then apply to the pre health program. I don't have a lot of time to get LORs and stuff, I have a month old baby. I'm also going to apply for jobs at Penn and try to benefit from the tuition assistance. Best case I'll get accepted and still have time to make the May 1 linkage agreement deadline for next year. I won't work and take out a heap of loans to pay for everything. Second best I get a penn job and take the 2 year route with part time classes and sept 11 mcat. Third best same as second but take mcat in jan or april 12 and then apply.
Someone please tell me what penn's mcat prep is like or if it even exists. I don't recall anyone mentioning it in here. But the recruiter said there is one.
I just called penn back and basically I can enroll in the core requirements classes a la carte this summer through the penn alumni without the hassel of the pre health application. However, to benefit from the linkages, committee letter, and mcat prep classes I'd have to apply to the program. I don't remember where I read in this thread that admission was closed for the summer start - that's not true according to the recruiter I spoke with.
Basically I'm going to apply through Penn Alumni and register for classes so I can guarantee a summer 1 start and then apply to the pre health program. I don't have a lot of time to get LORs and stuff, I have a month old baby. I'm also going to apply for jobs at Penn and try to benefit from the tuition assistance. Best case I'll get accepted and still have time to make the May 1 linkage agreement deadline for next year. I won't work and take out a heap of loans to pay for everything. Second best I get a penn job and take the 2 year route with part time classes and sept 11 mcat. Third best same as second but take mcat in jan or april 12 and then apply.
Someone please tell me what penn's mcat prep is like or if it even exists. I don't recall anyone mentioning it in here. But the recruiter said there is one.
D
deleted248403
You read that in the Penn thread. It seems there are some conflicting stories regarding that - whom did you speak with? suppose this discussion would be better in the upenn thread.
upenn's mcat prep is ok but i wouldnt count on it being the mainstay of my prep. its a nice addition but not a main stay IMO
upenn's mcat prep is ok but i wouldnt count on it being the mainstay of my prep. its a nice addition but not a main stay IMO
hey all,
I am looking for some advice. I graduated last june (2009) with a 2.7 bcpm 2.997 cum gpa, 30o mcat. I am wondering if it would be more effective to retake the classes I got c's in through a post bacc or if I should be applying to a masters program.
I am looking for some advice. I graduated last june (2009) with a 2.7 bcpm 2.997 cum gpa, 30o mcat. I am wondering if it would be more effective to retake the classes I got c's in through a post bacc or if I should be applying to a masters program.
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Retakes are no better than new coursework for MD schools.
Retakes will get you somewhere if you want to be a DO (same pay, same practice rights as an MD, retakes forgive old grades).
Graduate work doesn't help the cumulative undergrad GPA that med schools consider. Generally you can't overcome a low undergrad GPA by doing a traditional masters. There are special masters programs (SMPs) where you do the first year of med school to prove you can handle med school - and with these you typically still need a cumulative undergrad GPA above 3.0.
Read some more in this forum (especially this thread) and you'll get a feel for the GPA comeback protocol.
Best of luck to you.
So if md schools don't really consider retakes or new coursework how would I go about raising my gpa.
I am seriously considering an smp, but I don't feel that my gpa would be considered competitive. Would the smp take into account retaken or new coursework?
D
deleted248403
SMPs will differ how they interpret your retaken classes I imagine.
But breaking 3.0 will be enough to give you a shot at some places.
But breaking 3.0 will be enough to give you a shot at some places.
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Not sure how you got to "don't really consider" from "no better than."
MD schools do consider new coursework. MD schools don't forgive old bad grades if you retake a course.
Seriously, read more in this thread. All we do here is share our GPA comeback strategies. So far there's nothing unique about your situation.
I'd suggest you take a look near the end of the Tufts MBS thread for QofQimbica's response seeing that she's had experience as an Adcom because there is a person with a similar situation with a similar question, deciding between a true SMP in Tufts and taking a Masters at UCLA. Admittedly that one was for physican science and yours is graduate bio science related, the basic principle is the same.
The advantages of an SMP in the pure sense is a program that allows you to take medical school courses with medical school students as sort of an "audition" if you will for Adcoms to see how you might truly perform if admitted into medical school. Most traditional masters programs do NOT have this as part of their curriculum which would be what I would respond on reflex to your post. However as I don't know the specifics or anything about your program besides the field of study, I can't judge whether the Masters will be appropriate for your situation. If you look at the curriculum and it provides graduate level science courses, I suppose this would act as a rough equivalent. Another positive would be if you do research and can formulate an abstract or a publication on the graduate level. This will undoubtedly reflect very positively on your application.
The point is with any graduate degree, SMP or MS, it goes under graduate coursework and not on your undergraduate GPA. If you feel that your uGPA is too tarnished to really repair than having a "clean slate" to work with in graduate GPA may be a good solution. I think I can safely say w/e program that you've gotten into won't have the same academic influence that a true SMP will have, but if it has enough graduate level science courses, good research papers, and other positives such as cost/location, I don't see any problem with having one. Just remember it's not the Masters itself that sets you apart, it's how well you do in the program and what you make of it ie. publications, LOR, etc.
The advantages of an SMP in the pure sense is a program that allows you to take medical school courses with medical school students as sort of an "audition" if you will for Adcoms to see how you might truly perform if admitted into medical school. Most traditional masters programs do NOT have this as part of their curriculum which would be what I would respond on reflex to your post. However as I don't know the specifics or anything about your program besides the field of study, I can't judge whether the Masters will be appropriate for your situation. If you look at the curriculum and it provides graduate level science courses, I suppose this would act as a rough equivalent. Another positive would be if you do research and can formulate an abstract or a publication on the graduate level. This will undoubtedly reflect very positively on your application.
The point is with any graduate degree, SMP or MS, it goes under graduate coursework and not on your undergraduate GPA. If you feel that your uGPA is too tarnished to really repair than having a "clean slate" to work with in graduate GPA may be a good solution. I think I can safely say w/e program that you've gotten into won't have the same academic influence that a true SMP will have, but if it has enough graduate level science courses, good research papers, and other positives such as cost/location, I don't see any problem with having one. Just remember it's not the Masters itself that sets you apart, it's how well you do in the program and what you make of it ie. publications, LOR, etc.
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+1 👍
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To disagree with the previous poster: the experience of most of the posters on this board and most of my IRL friends is that ADCOMs consider three things when evaluating your academic performance: your cumulative undergraduate GPA, your BCPM undergrad GPA, and your grades in an SMP program if you attended one. They don't really seem to consider anything else: not masters programs, not doctoral programs,not your rising trend, not your very compelling personal story about why all your bad grades happened during one horrible semester, and not even the relative difficulty of your undergraduate coursework vs. the applicant who majored in Gameboy at Liberty University. ADCOM will of course adamantly deny this when asked directly ("we look at the whole applicant") in much the same way that every fat person will protest that they eat the same ammount as everyone else but actions speak louder than words and the only deviations I've seen from the very homogenous matriculant GPA statistics are students who attended an SMP.
BTW, while there are some of us that got in with an SMP and a sub 3.0 GPA, there aren't 'a lot'. The best plan of action would be to bring those GPAs up to a 3.0 before starting an SMP. You're very close and you have a semester an a half before med school starts to start working on it. Most community colleges offer classes during just the second half of a semester: get working.
I don't think we're really disagreeing on a whole lot in advising the OP. Adcoms (forgive me if i'm wrong) are often unfamiliar with all the "SMP" or MBS programs out there and often what they do see is a graduate degree Masters of such and such from such and such university and then the coursework is on display. This may and probably is not the case for well known SMPs such as Georgetown but for many of the other programs I would say this is probably the case, possibly having a Masters of Biomedical Science might trigger off some other flags that this was a "SMP" oriented program.
I was simply letting him know that what they do consider as you had so pointed out was that there was a different category for consideration by Adcoms of graduate coursework. I felt I was pretty clear in providing the distinction that though w/e his graduate coursework would include, it would probably not reflect as strongly to Adcoms as say Medical Microbiology or Infectious Diseases taken with the MS1s but that it would be displayed on the graduate coursework done and not the undergrad. In the initial screening process, they will almost exclusively screen for those three things that you mentioned and MCAT as well. If you pass that, they make look at other aspects of your application to see if there are any aspects of your application that make you stand out. I of course may be wrong as alot of this is stipulation and from my own experience during open file interviews (I have no Adcom friends =X).
That said, there are often alot of things into consideration for the individual which often may be they can't afford an additional 40K for an expensive elite program or they need to take care of their family or w/e. I don't know and I'm not going to ask, it has just been a common problem for previous members on SDN so I just felt it would be pertinent to quickly address it just in case. Anyway in closing, agree with Perrotfish that if you could simply raise that GPA to a 3.0, it would open alot more doors to SMP programs. You can find alot of MBS programs that include medical school courses as well as a year of research if you're really into that.
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I don't think there's much disagreement that someone with a sub 3.0 GPA will benefit more from a SMP than a traditional masters. I mentioned before that I would choose the MS because I think it has higher benefit for someone with a 3.55 but certainly someone with a sub 3.0 needs a SMP.
** Would appreciate advice because I am completely lost as to what to do right now**
Hey everyone! I'm glad to see I am not the only one with the low GPA problem. First off I am long winded in this explanation but I wanted to make sure I include all info that could be relevant. So... I started out in a biology degree in undergrad... I then changed to history my junior year. I ended up spending 6 years taking different classes to try to bring up my GPA. I ended up graduating with a 3.0 which is not great but I am sure the science GPA (if I wasn't to scared to calculate it) is lower. To be specific:
General Bio- B
General Chem I- C
General Chem II - C
Physics I- C (A in lab)
Physics II- B (A in lab)
Stats- C
I also took Invertebrate Zoology (C) but other than that I switched to history because I was aware I had already messed up. I just didn't really try and I had a few other problems that I didn't know how to deal with at the time. Anyways, I went to a MS program in Psychology and have a 3.9 from that. I did apply to a few programs for the PhD and PsyD for Clinical but I was turned down by most because of (I assume) poor GRE scores V-510 Q550 (also taken when I did not really study). Anyways, I was accepted to Argosy Hawaii for Fall. Should I go? I know what people already say about it.. but b/c of my poor undergrad GPA I am not sure I can get into another program. I had excellent references, experience, and GPA. Anyways, I have that choice or try a Postbaccalaureate Program (which I didn't even know existed until yesterday). I am a first generation college student and from a lower socioeconomic status. Is it worth it to go to this program? I had always heard that retaking a course doesn't really do much. Also, what about the rules for financial aid? Can I sort of go backward to that since I will have an MS degree in April? I do not have Organic also. I am thinking about maybe Anesthesiologist Assistant, Optometry, or Dentistry I don't really have many people that can give me advice on this subject. I would really appreciate it if someone could give me an opinion on the matter. My parents are telling me just to take the psych but I just am unsure about that school and feel stress about it and that maybe I gave up on biology and medicine to soon. Also does anyone know of programs in the Pittsburgh PA or surrounding area??
Hey everyone! I'm glad to see I am not the only one with the low GPA problem. First off I am long winded in this explanation but I wanted to make sure I include all info that could be relevant. So... I started out in a biology degree in undergrad... I then changed to history my junior year. I ended up spending 6 years taking different classes to try to bring up my GPA. I ended up graduating with a 3.0 which is not great but I am sure the science GPA (if I wasn't to scared to calculate it) is lower. To be specific:
General Bio- B
General Chem I- C
General Chem II - C
Physics I- C (A in lab)
Physics II- B (A in lab)
Stats- C
I also took Invertebrate Zoology (C) but other than that I switched to history because I was aware I had already messed up. I just didn't really try and I had a few other problems that I didn't know how to deal with at the time. Anyways, I went to a MS program in Psychology and have a 3.9 from that. I did apply to a few programs for the PhD and PsyD for Clinical but I was turned down by most because of (I assume) poor GRE scores V-510 Q550 (also taken when I did not really study). Anyways, I was accepted to Argosy Hawaii for Fall. Should I go? I know what people already say about it.. but b/c of my poor undergrad GPA I am not sure I can get into another program. I had excellent references, experience, and GPA. Anyways, I have that choice or try a Postbaccalaureate Program (which I didn't even know existed until yesterday). I am a first generation college student and from a lower socioeconomic status. Is it worth it to go to this program? I had always heard that retaking a course doesn't really do much. Also, what about the rules for financial aid? Can I sort of go backward to that since I will have an MS degree in April? I do not have Organic also. I am thinking about maybe Anesthesiologist Assistant, Optometry, or Dentistry I don't really have many people that can give me advice on this subject. I would really appreciate it if someone could give me an opinion on the matter. My parents are telling me just to take the psych but I just am unsure about that school and feel stress about it and that maybe I gave up on biology and medicine to soon. Also does anyone know of programs in the Pittsburgh PA or surrounding area??
Hi TC83. Couple questions before I start. Was the institution from where you graduated a semester or a quarter based college. I'm just looking at what you've taken so far and if semester based, you have completed gen chem and physics but lack the second semester of biology right? You also lack two semesters of organic chemistry with lab too it would seem. Calculus courses too maybe? I'm just guessing since you listed Stats but not any other pre-req courses.
Anyway from your post it sounds like you're undecided of which way you want to go with this and I'm really not going to point you in any which direction. You seem to have had a more extensive experience in the psychology field and the Masters won't hurt you in applying to dentistry or medicine but it also won't help you at all. It's rather irrelevant except perhaps to the potential interviewer/Adcom who might wonder why you suddenly decided to pick back up science courses again and also to yourself for having committed a period of time and money in one direction only to switch gears.
Retaking courses depends mainly on which route you take. For allopathic schools (MD) they won't help you at all if you retake a bad grade and will actually hurt you far more if you perform just as poorly or get any grade other than an A. Admissions advisers will usually tell potential applicants (my experience) that you should take some upper division science courses (ie. microbiology, biochemistry, physiology, etc.) and show a strong upward trend. For osteopathic schools (DO) they will count the retake grade as your final grade for repeated classes on AACOMAS during the GPA calculation. They are traditionally more forgiving towards past troubled academic history on retakes. For dentistry I would assume that whatever applies for allopathic schools applies for it as well since AADSAS doesn't have the repeat feature that AACOMAS does for GPA calculation. If you wanted to go into dentistry, you need to take Anatomy and Physiology with lab as well as the other medical school prerequisites. I believe microbiology and biochemistry are also preferred but not required.
Since you didn't have much luck with the GRE, I would make sure if you either choose medicine or dental, that you study long and hard for the MCAT or DAT before applying to prevent the same mistake from occurring. If you choose to do a post-bacc, most programs require scores from all standardized tests that you have taken and it would look unfavorably if you did poorly on one of the respective tests as well as the GRE which would prompt the thought that you do poorly on standardized tests in general.
If you wanted to do a post-bacc, I would opt for an informal one in the beginning to complete the rest of your pre-requisites and then apply to an SMP if you feel ready to tackle on an intense course load of medical school classes. Most formal post-bacc programs (Goucher, Scripps, etc.) won't take an applicant like you who has completed some of the pre-reqs already and they're rather expensive. Just attend a local university and enroll as a post bacc student (non-degree seeking student with a major) and take the classes that you need. It might be a good idea to retake some of the classes that you obtained a bad grade in previously if you want to consider the osteopathic route. Then look for SMPs (special masters programs) that you feel would be appropriate for you as the next step.
I'm actually a Psychology major as well, but I have a Bachelors of Science in it. If you chose to get a PhD or a PsyD, you can undoubtedly have a successful career in teaching or a licensed psychologist respectively. Just ask yourself if it's really something you like doing, something you're good at, and whether it is realistic in the future to see yourself committing the rest of your life to it. You can also probably find jobs in the business world as a consultant in advising companies as well, I've had professors that took this route and taught part time on the side.
Whatever you do, make sure you really want to do it. Otherwise you're really just wasting time and second guessing yourself on what you might have chosen or if something else was right for you instead. Do some research into each field, do some shadowing and find the right people to talk to before coming up with a final decision and then formulate a plan of how to realistically get yourself there. Good luck.
jslo85, Thanks for your reply! I have not taken organic (and labs) or calculus. I was really confused with the post bacc. info originally but that helped clear things up! I was just wondering how many were successful after trying to overcome the original low GPAs. I was mainly stressing a bit over all of the decisions. I appreciate the help with that! 🙂
Honestly, I have no clue how many really are successful but my guess is probably relatively few in comparison to the more traditional applicants who have a strong GPA and MCAT going in. But if you look closely enough and dig around this forum, especially in the beginning of this thread you will see a small number including the creator of this thread who are currently medical students and have rather low stats as well.
Nothing is impossible, just depends how badly you want it and your unwillingness/stubbornness (are these even words? X_X) to settle for anything less.
Nothing is impossible, just depends how badly you want it and your unwillingness/stubbornness (are these even words? X_X) to settle for anything less.
also to add to the post that dr.midlife quoted, a traditional MS does not do much in terms of course work compared to a SMP. In an SMP you are taking 32 credit hours of pure science or so. In a real MS you are doing more research then med school coursework kind of info. Also, some MS programs don't share the same level of intensity in coursework as a SMP MS program. So you gotta keep all that in mind.
I would agree that SMPs with real reputations like BU MAMS and Gtown SMP or even with up rising programs like Tufts MBS and UCincy MS in physio or with strong linkage will look beyond and consider an SMP differently then a non SMP MS. I also think how different schools interpret even a non SMP program is different too. But then it depends on if that non SMP meant taking hardcore science classes and spending most of it doing research, which is the main flaw with using any regular old MS as a route for getting into med school.
I disagree that all schools see SMPs as any old MS. Most schools that accept SMP kids have seen the reputation of these kids and know what these programs are about. if you have ever attended one, then you know that the advisors and faculty of SMP programs are also faculty and admissions officers in many cases in MD programs at their given school and since they'v seen both sides of the fence they will make it clear and act aggresively on your part at good SMPs by writing strong advisor letters explaining what the program is about, that you have taken medical school level courses, etc. It does make a difference but not so at the top 20 schools perhaps. Although, a few have gotten into even some top 20 schools with such. But at schools which are more forgiving it will help.
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I'm having a little trouble understanding how medical research (I.e a masters in neuroscience or another hard science) is unrelated to medicine.
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Actually Wayne State does. I emailed the admissions office a while ago asking about being able to speak with someone about my application since I didn't get in there this year and the secretary told me to do a little self evaluation first and happened to mention this: "If an applicant has 20 credits of didactic science (in other words BCPM) coursework in a graduate program on their application when they apply, the Committee will consider that as the science GPA instead of the undergraduate science GPA. You may want to consider graduate science coursework." 👍
I was actually wondering about Wayne State some time, so THANK YOU FOR THIS! I know that I got that impression about them, i.e. that they didn't consider only ugrad stuff when i applied there last year. I know Miami is also the same way for state residents only. They look at your grad work or postbac work to have a 3.5 or better or something like that.
I just noticed this and was wondering. If I have a sGPA of about 2.0 now with a cGPA of around 2.9 and I complete over 20 credits of BCPM work in an informal post bacc would I be competitive enough to apply to Wayne State?
I don't know if you really read the post drumfreek, but the post specifically says graduate science coursework and that it needs to be done in a graduate program. You first need to get into a M.S or MBS program to complete these requirements so an informal post bacc like you were suggesting won't be even viewed under this light at all. What you need to do is go retake all of your bad grades at an informal post bacc and see if you can get into a graduate program/SMP before applying through this route.
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You may wish to contact the admissions office at [email protected]. I believe this policy only applies to graduate courses, so if you take 20 or more credits at the 500+ level (or whatever level is considered graduate at your school) I think that will definitely help you out. However, I am not sure if it would have any effect on the 2.9 since you'd be taking grad courses. I think if you're not enrolled as a graduate at your institution then it would help you raise that 2.9, and I think Wayne would probably take your 20+ credits from your grad classes as your science GPA, but again, email the admissions office and they'll let you know for sure what the rules are as far as getting your sGPA replaced. But I would think you'll need to be enrolled in a graduate program.
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so clearly alot of ppl in this thread are applying to multiple SMPs.
I'm about to go out of town for a couple days and wanted to at least get my transcripts sent to a couple of these places to get my file started, but wasnt sure if i should wait till i have the actual application done. Obviously i have a pretty crappy gpa and didnt wanna get excluded because of that right away.
so does it matter if i just sent my transcripts now where i was interested and then followed up with everything else in the next two weeks?
thanks
I'm about to go out of town for a couple days and wanted to at least get my transcripts sent to a couple of these places to get my file started, but wasnt sure if i should wait till i have the actual application done. Obviously i have a pretty crappy gpa and didnt wanna get excluded because of that right away.
so does it matter if i just sent my transcripts now where i was interested and then followed up with everything else in the next two weeks?
thanks
FYI, they won't "exclude/reject" you until you send in the rest of your materials. You seem to have a more unorthodox procedure than normal. Students usually submit the online application where they have all the necessary information (name, SSN, DOB etc) to create a file for you with which if any of your other information arrive (LOR through interfolio, transcripts etc.) it's easy to look you up to add your information to the correct (yours) file.
Just imagine this scenario where you haven't sent any material to this university before and out of nowhere they receive a bundle of transcripts for a certain "manonthemoon" from such and such university. All searches for such an individual in the database fails. What would you do with those papers then? Maybe the person will be an overachiever and not shred them but instead create a random file for you (chose the right one from 1590889058 other graduate programs). It's possible but I wouldn't stake my life on it.
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good point- thats exactly what i was wondering
thanks alot
thanks alot
Hi everyone, new here and am in the same boat as most posters in this thread, so I'm in desperate need of advice. 
I'm graduating this spring and I currently have a gpa of 2.94. I'm hoping to raise it up to 3.0 by the end of spring so I can apply to Berkeley's Post Bacc program. What do you guys think?
Do you guys know of any post-bacc programs in California that take less than a 3.0? I went through the post-bacc threads, but all of them are out of state and that's a very, very last resort for me.
Thank you guys.
I'm graduating this spring and I currently have a gpa of 2.94. I'm hoping to raise it up to 3.0 by the end of spring so I can apply to Berkeley's Post Bacc program. What do you guys think?
Do you guys know of any post-bacc programs in California that take less than a 3.0? I went through the post-bacc threads, but all of them are out of state and that's a very, very last resort for me.
Thank you guys.
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With a low GPA you'll need to leave CA anyway...Hi everyone, new here and am in the same boat as most posters in this thread, so I'm in desperate need of advice.
I'm graduating this spring and I currently have a gpa of 2.94. I'm hoping to raise it up to 3.0 by the end of spring so I can apply to Berkeley's Post Bacc program. What do you guys think?
Do you guys know of any post-bacc programs in California that take less than a 3.0? I went through the post-bacc threads, but all of them are out of state and that's a very, very last resort for me.
Thank you guys.
Apply to Mills & Scripps & the UCs & USC regardless of their requirements. Can't hurt.
Berkeley extension has a good reputation around here.
Consider adding a year to your degree program (add a 2nd major or 1+ minors) so that you can improve your GPA and take the prereqs without changing schools. By FAR the cheapest & easiest & fastest way to do it.
Best of luck to you.
Hi everyone, new here and am in the same boat as most posters in this thread, so I'm in desperate need of advice.
I'm graduating this spring and I currently have a gpa of 2.94. I'm hoping to raise it up to 3.0 by the end of spring so I can apply to Berkeley's Post Bacc program. What do you guys think?
Do you guys know of any post-bacc programs in California that take less than a 3.0? I went through the post-bacc threads, but all of them are out of state and that's a very, very last resort for me.
Thank you guys.
Well my question is if that is your GPA at this very minute without your spring grades which will come in when you graduate will you break a 3.0? Some programs will cut you if you don't make a 3.0, some will be more flexible and consider other factors in your application. (waitttt, did you graduate with a science major ie. taken most of the prereqs if no all?)
But then again if you're adamant on staying in CA, your choices are severely limited. You apparently found the UC Extension programs and I think the only other one that I know of (read very very recently) was another thread on this board of some accelerated program in southern cal called ISP. I'm going to step out on a limb and say no to that option because it sounds extraordinarily sketchy due to several reasons so probably UCB extension for you. Besides you live in the bay right? Probably near Albany/SF/Oakland if Berkeley is the UC you chose. you can also take courses at SFSU, they have two tracks, AET and the pre-med track. I am pretty sure they conduct interviews for either and are introducing many new courses.
Do I think that's the best choice? Well no not really. But if you refuse to go anywhere else (Dr. Midlife is right, you are probably going to leave CA anyway) and CA offers no other post-bacc/SMP options there really isn't that much else to consider. Take upper division courses (skimming the website right now like anatomy, physiology, immunology, biochemistry etc) and if you can get your uGPA/sGPA close to 3.5 each with a 30+ MCAT. I would say you are competitive for D.O. and may have a shot at some interviews for allopathic schools should you apply early and have a solid CV with LORs. By doing an informal post-bacc like this you should have more than ample time to buff up your E.Cs and to spend time with clinical activities. But do consider SFSU as well
Could you clarify if you need a post-bacc for boosting your GPA? Or you have none of the pre-reqs taken. Scripps and Mills are both in CA and if you haven't taken pre-reqs at all, you should take this route if you can raise your GPA to become competitive for them. If not, SFSU is another option outside of UC Extension for academic enhancer to boost your GPA.
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Honestly I wouldn't bother applying for the formals in CA, especially Scripps. They accept 10% of applicants and the average entering GPA is 3.65. I would, however, consider CSULA's postbac, which has pretty low requirements and I know a number of people who have been successful there.
Hey Everyone!
You all seem to be a knowledgeable bunch, so I thought I'd ask for some input. Currently, I'm a senior who will be graduating with a cum gpa 3.05 and science gpa 2.98. I'm coming off a science major at a top 20 school known for grade deflation (not that that's going to cut me any slack with adcom). I realize I need to do something to improve my chances, but I'm not sure which route is best. Here's what I'm considering.
1. Take a couple years back home at state school to bring up my undergrad gpa. If I did this I could be around a 3.5 cum and sci gpa and it'd cost about $8,000/year.
2. Enroll in a graduate certificate program at my state school that allows me to take classes in the anatomy department which unfortunately aren't graded against med students but are taught by the same professors. It'd be a year long program running about $10,000.
3.Enroll in the grad certificate program and then follow it up with an SMP. I'm concerned that while many of the schools in the certificate program are the same in content to the first year med school classes, med schools won't take it seriously because it's not a reputable program like Loyola, Tufts, etc. The thing with this is that it'd cost a fortune.
To give a more complete picture: I'm the first person in my family to graduate from high school let alone a four year university. I've been actively involved in service and have held leadership positions in one organization I've been involved in my full four years. I have completed some shadowing, about a year of research, volunteered at a free clinic, and I'm a URM.
My question is, where do I go from here? Will medical schools respect a 4.0 gpa from a virtually unknown program? Is it better to focus on undergrad gpa or go straight into some kind of grad program? Is an SMP really the best option in my predicament? It costs a whole lot more than two years of undergrad or the grad certificate...
Thanks so much for your input!
PS I take the MCAT in a couple weeks, but I've been getting in the 32-35 range depending on the day!
You all seem to be a knowledgeable bunch, so I thought I'd ask for some input. Currently, I'm a senior who will be graduating with a cum gpa 3.05 and science gpa 2.98. I'm coming off a science major at a top 20 school known for grade deflation (not that that's going to cut me any slack with adcom). I realize I need to do something to improve my chances, but I'm not sure which route is best. Here's what I'm considering.
1. Take a couple years back home at state school to bring up my undergrad gpa. If I did this I could be around a 3.5 cum and sci gpa and it'd cost about $8,000/year.
2. Enroll in a graduate certificate program at my state school that allows me to take classes in the anatomy department which unfortunately aren't graded against med students but are taught by the same professors. It'd be a year long program running about $10,000.
3.Enroll in the grad certificate program and then follow it up with an SMP. I'm concerned that while many of the schools in the certificate program are the same in content to the first year med school classes, med schools won't take it seriously because it's not a reputable program like Loyola, Tufts, etc. The thing with this is that it'd cost a fortune.
To give a more complete picture: I'm the first person in my family to graduate from high school let alone a four year university. I've been actively involved in service and have held leadership positions in one organization I've been involved in my full four years. I have completed some shadowing, about a year of research, volunteered at a free clinic, and I'm a URM.
My question is, where do I go from here? Will medical schools respect a 4.0 gpa from a virtually unknown program? Is it better to focus on undergrad gpa or go straight into some kind of grad program? Is an SMP really the best option in my predicament? It costs a whole lot more than two years of undergrad or the grad certificate...
Thanks so much for your input!
PS I take the MCAT in a couple weeks, but I've been getting in the 32-35 range depending on the day!
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Drizzt, would you happen to know the average gpa and GRE of the people that enter CSULA's program? I'm applying to there right now and just finished up my PS, but I have yet to take a GRE (just discovered I need that, luckily there's time to squeeze one in.)
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Also, if anyone could possibly guide my chances at SFSU or CSULA, my school gpa is 3.3, however I may have closer to a 3.4 gpa when converted to a letter grade system. If it helps, my gpa trend is as follows:
end of freshman year I had a 3.45
had a very very bad sophomore fall quarter (2.6 quarter gpa) which dropped my overall gpa down to 3.1
Slowly raised it to 3.3 by the end of junior year.
Didn't do too hot this year's fall quarter, where my biochem grade was a C+, but I should be doing much better in biochem this quarter.
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The person had a gpa in the low 3s, idk what it was exactly.
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I was in a similar situation last year -- I had a 3.1 and a BCPM < 3.0.
I ended up going back to my home state and I've been taking science classes at a local university. Granted, I wasn't a science major, so there were lots of science classes available.
If I were you, I'd one year of undergrad science classes (formally or informally) so that your BCPM is at least 3.0. Then apply to an SMP after that. Two years of post-bacc classes wouldn't be that bad either, but you need to know if you can get your cumGPA to a 3.4-3.5 in two years. If you can, maybe apply early and broadly, given other aspects of your application are in good shape (ECs, letters, etc.)
Maybe someone else can chime in?
I have an interview at SFSU and am thinking about applying to the CSU-LA program but I am a bit concerned now. I am originally from the midwest so I am not as familiar with CA post baccs but I applied anyway because it would be nice to be closer to my family and bf. But of course, I will go anywhere that is the best program for me (URM, GPA 2.9, sGPA 2.6, MCAT 21P). I wish I could apply to the UCs post bacc but I need to be a legal CA resident. Can anyone give me some feedback on SFSU and CSU-LA? Thanks!
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I would not bank on applying to a top tier school because while you might still somehow get a chance as happened with some, it will be tough due to your GPA. Apply wisely for med school. if you don't get in do an SMP. Good luck. And congrats on the awesome MCAT.
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I've been following your posts here and in nontrad, and in particular I've just been made aware of vc777's story (2.87, 38S, CCLCM full ride).
Be very careful in assuming that one anecdote applies to you. Read carefully through his/her mdapps and see how his/her state school (and quite a lot of schools) autoscreened him/her out. We don't get to know how good his/her package is: LORs, essays, interview.
Also note that even with a 2.87, premeds have a wicked sense of entitlement and think they're the only important app out of 5000 and that they should be handled professionally and personally by every school based on a $100 check and an essay. Really? I mean, really?
All that said, I'm suddenly more motivated to retake the MCAT...