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Or you could do some reading and probably answer most of them with some good old fashioned reading
**The Official Guide to Special Masters Programs**
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Is there ANYTHING that I can do if my SMP GPA is not that good? Or should I look into another profession? I've applied to 25 MD schools this year with no luck so far. Should I look into DO schools?
My undergraduate cGPA was 3.35 and sGPA of 3.02. My Georgetown SMP GPA was a 3.44. My MCAT is a 34 and I believe my other activities and things are more than enough. Thanks.
My undergraduate cGPA was 3.35 and sGPA of 3.02. My Georgetown SMP GPA was a 3.44. My MCAT is a 34 and I believe my other activities and things are more than enough. Thanks.
Hey Everyone,
I was just wondering if I could get some down and dirty feedback at my chances for Tufts SMP for the class entering in 2015. I submitted my app for MD and DO schools this cycle as well, but in case I don't get any love anywhere, I'd like to hopefully at least stand a chance with an SMP.
California Resident, Southeast Asian, Non-traditional
Undergrad cGPA - 3.18, sGPA 2.90 - Non-science major
MCAT - 25, 7ps/10vr/8bs
Disadvantaged status - Family income significantly below poverty line. Provider for family. 40+ hours throughout undergrad, 70+ hours now. Controlled ADHD.
Clinical Experience - All work has been either hands on patient care or patient care related. Total of over 6000 hours of patient care experience.
Philanthropy - Health care program founder, clinical director
Research - 2000 hours of clinical research experience.
If I'm leaving anything significant out let me know! Are there any other recommendations for SMPs that I may qualify for? A 25 disqualifies me from the ones at Georgetown and Ohio I believe 🙁 .
I was just wondering if I could get some down and dirty feedback at my chances for Tufts SMP for the class entering in 2015. I submitted my app for MD and DO schools this cycle as well, but in case I don't get any love anywhere, I'd like to hopefully at least stand a chance with an SMP.
California Resident, Southeast Asian, Non-traditional
Undergrad cGPA - 3.18, sGPA 2.90 - Non-science major
MCAT - 25, 7ps/10vr/8bs
Disadvantaged status - Family income significantly below poverty line. Provider for family. 40+ hours throughout undergrad, 70+ hours now. Controlled ADHD.
Clinical Experience - All work has been either hands on patient care or patient care related. Total of over 6000 hours of patient care experience.
Philanthropy - Health care program founder, clinical director
Research - 2000 hours of clinical research experience.
If I'm leaving anything significant out let me know! Are there any other recommendations for SMPs that I may qualify for? A 25 disqualifies me from the ones at Georgetown and Ohio I believe 🙁 .
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Nope.
Unfortunately with those numbers you are throwing time/money/effort away on med school apps. You're not ready for med school, and you shouldn't go to a med school or to an SMP that will let you in at this point. Not MD, not DO, not Carib.
Problem #1 is getting out from under the requirement to work 40-70 hours/wk instead of studying. There's no point in moving forward if you are going to continue to bear that kind of responsibility for your family. Get out of that house and get out of that town if you want to be a doctor. If your family guilts you into working then guilt them right back with their sabotage in preventing you from doing well in school. I assume you're the kid in this story, not the parent; if that's not the case then find the nontrad forum for advice.
Problem #2 is that you don't yet have an academic performance that will make anybody confident you can perform well in med school or in an SMP. You can't just say "I didn't have time to study until now and now I will magically be an A student - you'll see!" because nobody will buy that. You still have to produce a med-school-worthy performance, and you absolutely can't get it done in one year or part time. An MD SMP is a stupid place to try to start being an A student. Don't go to an MD SMP before you know how to get straight A's in mostly hard science classes. Don't go to an MD SMP until you've got a competitive MCAT score (>30 at least). You could look into the 2 year masters programs at DO schools, but I recommend against this until you have a rational basis to predict strong academic performance. Right now you have no such rational basis.
Problem #3 is that you don't seem to be aware of how bad your position is. To fix this, and to get a massive boatload of ideas on what to do next, spend a minimum of 10 hours, FOR STARTERS, reading posts in this forum. Start by reading THE ENTIRE low GPA thread, the one that has close to a million view now. Nobody but you is going to be the grownup in charge of making med school happen for you.
Best of luck to you.
Hello everyone
So most people seem to apply to these SMPs due to fear of not getting in to med school/actually not getting in. I'm in a similar position:
California resident, first in my family to go to college in the US
3.5 Cum GPA, 3.4 sGPA, 28 (10/10/8 verbal) MCAT. took it twice got the same score.
Applied to 40+ medical schools.
My questions are: Does anyone think I have a significant chance into getting into medial school in the US? I applied to Ross University out of fear, just in case.
If not, is the SMP route significantly helpful in my case? More importantly: do students in SMPs retake the MCAT if they have low scores? SMPs only help in increasing your sGPA, they do nothing for the MCAT so would my low MCAT still be a hinderance in my medical school application if I reapply?
Thank you in advance!
So most people seem to apply to these SMPs due to fear of not getting in to med school/actually not getting in. I'm in a similar position:
California resident, first in my family to go to college in the US
3.5 Cum GPA, 3.4 sGPA, 28 (10/10/8 verbal) MCAT. took it twice got the same score.
Applied to 40+ medical schools.
My questions are: Does anyone think I have a significant chance into getting into medial school in the US? I applied to Ross University out of fear, just in case.
If not, is the SMP route significantly helpful in my case? More importantly: do students in SMPs retake the MCAT if they have low scores? SMPs only help in increasing your sGPA, they do nothing for the MCAT so would my low MCAT still be a hinderance in my medical school application if I reapply?
Thank you in advance!
Yes, if the goal is to get an MD admission and not waste your SMP dollars.
Yes. In your situation, your MCAT score is a much more deterministic piece of your med school app than your SMP performance, because your GPA isn't too far below average (in California).
If you don't want to go at the MCAT again, then look at DO schools. Carib schools are much much much more risky. Don't be a marketing victim.
Also note that being enrolled in an SMP isn't much help for med school apps. Usually you have to complete the SMP before you apply, unless your prior attempt resulted in waitlists.
Hey guys I was hoping someone not related to me could help me figure out this med school stuff or point me in the right direction. So finished a 4yr college with a gpa of 2.53. I messed up and was immature and grades started goimg down omce I started working. Doing an extra year retaking some classes to raise that gpa a bit, having pretty good success expect for orgo 2. Also, took the mcat and got a 23 which I wasn't happy with so taking a kaplan class and planning to rake the mcat in april/may of 2015. Should I apply to smp's? Will I even have a chance? Already wasted a lot of money applying to med schools last year which was dumb since I wasn't beimg realistic with myself. Any advice will be helpful and greatly appreciated.
Have a few extracurricular and some great faculty and researchers to write LOR's so that's not a problem but haven't been published or anything!
Have a few extracurricular and some great faculty and researchers to write LOR's so that's not a problem but haven't been published or anything!
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Here you go: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/the-low-gpa-what-do-i-do-thread.827879/#post-11083370
Do NOT retake the MCAT at this point. Just don't. You can't get a good MCAT score from a 2.53. Get serious.
Hi everyone,
First timer posting in this thread. I'll get right to brass tacks...
Graduated in 2012: B.A. in neuroscience
3.45 cGPA
3.39 sGPA
B+/A- average in premed courses
First MCAT (2012): 32 (P/V/B: 10/11/11)
Second MCAT (2014): 37 (P/V/B: 14/11/12)
My story: since graduating, I have been working full-time as a lab tech. I applied to 25 schools in 2012. No interviews.
Applied to 20 schools this cycle. Two interviews, with one of them resulting in a rejection (so far).
It is true that I do have one more interview lined up, but I don't think preparing for the worst case scenario is a bad idea. Should I consider an SMP or not for next year?
Yes, my MCAT is high, but unfortunately it has not translated into many interviews. I know that there are people here with no interviews, so I may be at a decent place, relatively speaking, but the point is, I want to know if an SMP will help me in a significant way. At this point, I think my grades are hurting me a lot. I do not think that just working for another year will be helpful. I'm wondering if maybe a strong SMP GPA, coupled with more clinical experience/volunteer hours this upcoming year will help. What would you guys do?
Thanks!
First timer posting in this thread. I'll get right to brass tacks...
Graduated in 2012: B.A. in neuroscience
3.45 cGPA
3.39 sGPA
B+/A- average in premed courses
First MCAT (2012): 32 (P/V/B: 10/11/11)
Second MCAT (2014): 37 (P/V/B: 14/11/12)
My story: since graduating, I have been working full-time as a lab tech. I applied to 25 schools in 2012. No interviews.
Applied to 20 schools this cycle. Two interviews, with one of them resulting in a rejection (so far).
It is true that I do have one more interview lined up, but I don't think preparing for the worst case scenario is a bad idea. Should I consider an SMP or not for next year?
Yes, my MCAT is high, but unfortunately it has not translated into many interviews. I know that there are people here with no interviews, so I may be at a decent place, relatively speaking, but the point is, I want to know if an SMP will help me in a significant way. At this point, I think my grades are hurting me a lot. I do not think that just working for another year will be helpful. I'm wondering if maybe a strong SMP GPA, coupled with more clinical experience/volunteer hours this upcoming year will help. What would you guys do?
Thanks!
Your GPAs are probably not the problem, not with a 37. This sounds like you applied late and/or picked schools out of reach and/or had a bad letter and/or you're in California.
I think an SMP is overkill. See the reapplicant forum for common app mistakes.
Best of luck to you.
I think an SMP is overkill. See the reapplicant forum for common app mistakes.
Best of luck to you.
Hello,
I am currently looking to apply to SMP programs as a backup while applying to medical school this upcoming cycle. The following are my stats/circumstances and if anyone could give me advice, I would greatly appreciate it:
1. My undergrad gpa is a 3.3 with a science gpa of 3.4 from UC Berkeley/community college in California
2. My MCAT is a 31.
3. I have ~800 hours of volunteering work
4. I have 400 hours of shadowing (one in an urgent care for 200 hrs and other in a foreign country)
5. I am currently starting research this upcoming feb
6. I am 26 years old, and due to my father falling ill when I was young, I have worked full time through out my entire college career supporting my family financially (thus, the low gpa stats in addition to delay in applying)
7. I have 2 clubs in which i was in a leadership role in my undergrad which I finished last year
8. I am applying in the very beginning of the upcoming cycle to MD schools. I am also applying to 48 schools to ensure I am applying broadly to enhance my chances.
I am very aware of my GPA being low, however, I was encouraged to apply to medical school by my counselors at berkeley due to the fact that I was working full time. They seemed to believe this would reflect responsibility, and maturity to medical schools as I already have 8 years of work experience in addition to something which I believe isn't a total disastrous GPA. I am not an URM, but due to my family's situation, I did live live in the low income group for years until I had enough experience to start earning money in a managerial position which I am at now, though I believe with a family of three, I might be considered economically disadvantaged.
As far as SMP programs I am considering: EVMS, U Cinn, Temple ACMS, Drexel so far. Any other suggestions that will increase my chances of med school admission will be amazing.
I am truly wondering with this background if I will stand a decent chance for MD programs, as I am very passionate about medicine, and spent the few years saving money to apply to med school while most likely depending on loans for SMP.
Any advice is sincerely appreciated. Thank you so much for your time in advance 🙂
I am currently looking to apply to SMP programs as a backup while applying to medical school this upcoming cycle. The following are my stats/circumstances and if anyone could give me advice, I would greatly appreciate it:
1. My undergrad gpa is a 3.3 with a science gpa of 3.4 from UC Berkeley/community college in California
2. My MCAT is a 31.
3. I have ~800 hours of volunteering work
4. I have 400 hours of shadowing (one in an urgent care for 200 hrs and other in a foreign country)
5. I am currently starting research this upcoming feb
6. I am 26 years old, and due to my father falling ill when I was young, I have worked full time through out my entire college career supporting my family financially (thus, the low gpa stats in addition to delay in applying)
7. I have 2 clubs in which i was in a leadership role in my undergrad which I finished last year
8. I am applying in the very beginning of the upcoming cycle to MD schools. I am also applying to 48 schools to ensure I am applying broadly to enhance my chances.
I am very aware of my GPA being low, however, I was encouraged to apply to medical school by my counselors at berkeley due to the fact that I was working full time. They seemed to believe this would reflect responsibility, and maturity to medical schools as I already have 8 years of work experience in addition to something which I believe isn't a total disastrous GPA. I am not an URM, but due to my family's situation, I did live live in the low income group for years until I had enough experience to start earning money in a managerial position which I am at now, though I believe with a family of three, I might be considered economically disadvantaged.
As far as SMP programs I am considering: EVMS, U Cinn, Temple ACMS, Drexel so far. Any other suggestions that will increase my chances of med school admission will be amazing.
I am truly wondering with this background if I will stand a decent chance for MD programs, as I am very passionate about medicine, and spent the few years saving money to apply to med school while most likely depending on loans for SMP.
Any advice is sincerely appreciated. Thank you so much for your time in advance 🙂
Got some tough love for you.
It's premature for you to be applying MD, because you're in the most competitive state, with below average stats. "I was working full time so I couldn't get a good GPA" is going to be in the same pile as 1000 instances of "I was able to keep up my 3.7+ while working full time". Respect your competition and do more work before you apply. 3.3/3.4/31 is overwhemingly MEH.
If you want MD then start an academic enhancer program in Aug '15. My current favorites for Californians with your stats are Boston and Tufts, because you can apply during your 2nd year in the program and you get something tangible out of that 2nd year (research or an MPH). You can also seriously consider keeping your job, and take 2 classes per term through Berk Extension.
A better MCAT score would obviously help counter your undergrad numbers, but only retake if you have the time and money and focus to get more points.
Familiarize yourself with the matriculant averages at your schools of interest. National averages are lower than the numbers in California. The private schools that have lower matriculant averages (such as Drexel, Temple) are the schools that get the most applications, such as 15,000 for 150 seats.
This is all fine. If you're starting an SMP in Aug '15 that's only 6 months of research. You won't get published. Prioritize accordingly.
I'm sorry to hear about your dad. But there aren't any valid excuses for low GPA that hold up in med school admissions. You will have a side paragraph to explain any "academic anomalies" but that paragraph only gets read after a strong impression is made by your numbers.
I'm glad you're asking 6 months ahead, and I like the aggression. But you have no advantages that will help you instate or OOS with MD schools. If you are in a hurry, then you need to focus on DO.
I'm sorry to hear that you're getting such bad advice at such a good school.
I'm not impressed with your selection. There is a boatload of great information in this forum on all of these programs and several others, with deep commentary from current and former students.
In particular, you need to understand that in California you can't do what people in other states can do. You have to complete your academic enhancement before you apply to the UC's. If you do not prioritize the UC's, then you are very easily going to be in the $300k to $400k debt range after med school, vs. around $200k if you get into a UC. It sounds like you have a family in tow (husband? kids?) and if so then being where your relatives are is unbelievably important. Hopefully that's enough motivation for you to prioritize the UCs and other California schools.
tl;dr: you will be throwing money away if you apply MD in June. Do more work so that you have the best possible app before you apply MD, or focus on DO schools.
Best of luck to you.
Hello,
Any information would be greatly appreciated. I am a Canadian student with US citizenship though no home state. I am a graduate student and am applying to medical schools during this current cycle though am fairly certain it will prove to be unsuccessful. I have also applied to several SMPs which include Georgetown, Boston, Cincinnati, EVMS, Drexel, NYMC, UPenn.
My particulars are:
23 yo
Undergrad GPA: 2.8 in Physics. First two years were around 2.0 with the third year a 3.3 and the 4th a 3.6
Grad GPA: 4.0 in Engineering
MCAT: 34 (PS: 12, BS: 12, VR: 10)
600 hours shadowing and clinical
Many hours volunteering
Significant research with papers in reputable journals on the way.
Want an allo school. Not osteo nor offshore.
My questions are:
1) What is your overall impression?
2) Which SMPs of the above would you rank 1,2,3,4
3) Would doing well in a SMP fully/nearly fully rehabilitate a low undergrad GPA? I believe I read on here that SMPs help with GPA but not other things lacking in one's application. Or is the/my undergrad GPA just too low for allo schools?
4) Would it make any difference to do more undergrad work after finishing my current Masters and an SMP to get my undergrad GPA higher? Say, above 3.2? How about getting another undergrad degree, i.e start over?
5) What would be the maximum times one can apply to medical schools without being labelled as not worthy or tainted. I have heard 2-3 times is the max and then schools categorize you differently.
6) If this were you, what would you do?
Thank you very much in advance for your advice.
Any information would be greatly appreciated. I am a Canadian student with US citizenship though no home state. I am a graduate student and am applying to medical schools during this current cycle though am fairly certain it will prove to be unsuccessful. I have also applied to several SMPs which include Georgetown, Boston, Cincinnati, EVMS, Drexel, NYMC, UPenn.
My particulars are:
23 yo
Undergrad GPA: 2.8 in Physics. First two years were around 2.0 with the third year a 3.3 and the 4th a 3.6
Grad GPA: 4.0 in Engineering
MCAT: 34 (PS: 12, BS: 12, VR: 10)
600 hours shadowing and clinical
Many hours volunteering
Significant research with papers in reputable journals on the way.
Want an allo school. Not osteo nor offshore.
My questions are:
1) What is your overall impression?
2) Which SMPs of the above would you rank 1,2,3,4
3) Would doing well in a SMP fully/nearly fully rehabilitate a low undergrad GPA? I believe I read on here that SMPs help with GPA but not other things lacking in one's application. Or is the/my undergrad GPA just too low for allo schools?
4) Would it make any difference to do more undergrad work after finishing my current Masters and an SMP to get my undergrad GPA higher? Say, above 3.2? How about getting another undergrad degree, i.e start over?
5) What would be the maximum times one can apply to medical schools without being labelled as not worthy or tainted. I have heard 2-3 times is the max and then schools categorize you differently.
6) If this were you, what would you do?
Thank you very much in advance for your advice.
Hello! I'm new to SDN and am not sure if I can reply here asking about my options... but currently I'm an undergraduate going to be graduating this may. My MCAT score is terribly low and I have a below par GPA. I'm wondering which SMPs I should look into?
Stats:
MCAT: 5 PS/6 V/6 B
sGPA: 3.2 oGPA: 3.52
I have very strong EC's:
I've volunteered over 200 hours at Mt. Sinai Medical Center Children's Hospital
I've been recently published in Nanoscale journal
I've got a strong recommendation letter from an MD that i have 30+ hours of shadowing
I'm a registered EMT
My pre-health committee letter is somewhat strong as well, letter from my research mentor (strong), bio prof, physics prof and eng prof (strong).
Current treasurer of Global Brigades on my campus (an org that creates medical clinics in under-resourced communities around the world).
Does having EC's help in applying to SMPs?
Stats:
MCAT: 5 PS/6 V/6 B
sGPA: 3.2 oGPA: 3.52
I have very strong EC's:
I've volunteered over 200 hours at Mt. Sinai Medical Center Children's Hospital
I've been recently published in Nanoscale journal
I've got a strong recommendation letter from an MD that i have 30+ hours of shadowing
I'm a registered EMT
My pre-health committee letter is somewhat strong as well, letter from my research mentor (strong), bio prof, physics prof and eng prof (strong).
Current treasurer of Global Brigades on my campus (an org that creates medical clinics in under-resourced communities around the world).
Does having EC's help in applying to SMPs?
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Hi there DrMidlife,
I thought I would reply to your post since I am in the middle of debating what I should do after I graduate considering my not so great GPA. I did the math and for MD schools my cGPA is about a 3.2 right now, DO schools it would be about 3.3 since they do not take the course grade repeats (which I have for a few classes). My science/math GPA is what is really worrying me right now. For MD school its at a 2.6 and about 3.0 for DO schools. I am currently a senior in university (2 more quarters til I graduate). That means I already have a lot of science/math units...around 240 units.
I have considered post-bacc and smp's, but for an smp, I would need an applicable mcat score which I do not have.
So my question really is, in your honest opinion, what would be my best option?
1. Use the time after I graduate to study strictly for the mcat, get a high score, then apply to an smp?
2. Apply to post-bacc programs and just prep for the mcat through their program
3. something else to make my application stronger when I do apply
*I would do one of the above alongside continuing my extracurriulars and research*
I'm also thinking at this point I should just focus on getting into a DO school, just because they calculate the GPA differently and MD schools are less forgiving with grades. Some postbacc or smp's also have links to DO schools so thats also a plus.
Please be totally honest with me, I just need more opinions on this than my advisor at school. I am super stubborn and wont give up on becoming a doctor so no I wont consider a different career path. My strengths just don't in test-taking which I have always struggled with, along with other things throughout my life. I also have extensive extracurriculars, personal experience, and have been doing research.
Thank you! I really appreciate your help 🙂
Hi DrMidlife:
Would really appreciate your advice. Deciding between (A) retaking MCAT then attending an SMP (got accepted to BU MAMS and Drexel IMS) this summer 2015 or (B) continue working in research at Boston hospital, retake MCAT, skip SMP, and apply direct to med schools for matriculation Fall 2016. (I'd be a reapplicant)
Stats:
sGPA 3.3; cGPA 3.4 (2nd tier liberal arts); MPH GPA 3.7 (ivy league)
MCAT 26 (9, 11, 6); 3+ years clinical research; published; cofounded health startup; outstanding LORs
What do you think? Thanks!
Would really appreciate your advice. Deciding between (A) retaking MCAT then attending an SMP (got accepted to BU MAMS and Drexel IMS) this summer 2015 or (B) continue working in research at Boston hospital, retake MCAT, skip SMP, and apply direct to med schools for matriculation Fall 2016. (I'd be a reapplicant)
Stats:
sGPA 3.3; cGPA 3.4 (2nd tier liberal arts); MPH GPA 3.7 (ivy league)
MCAT 26 (9, 11, 6); 3+ years clinical research; published; cofounded health startup; outstanding LORs
What do you think? Thanks!
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To the last two posters, Midlife has a PM box - why not use that? This isnt like her personal thread
True. Well what do you think, robflanker? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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If you want MD, then you should do A. If you are ok with DO, then do B but you will most likely have to take MCAT over again anyways.
GPA in MPH doesn't count for anything just so you know.
Maybe others can benefit from the advice? It's all anonymous anyways.
In general:
1. Produce a multi-year undergraduate performance worthy of med school. If you don't do this in your first 4+ years of undergrad, then you have to do about 1 very successful (3.7+) full time year of mostly hard science per standard deviation below the matriculant average. I will leave it as an exercise for you to figure out what that means. Don't get all distracted by which GPA matters most or get all nickel and dime on exact AMCAS/AACOMAS/TMDSAS differences. There is no formula or accurate prediction for how your transcript damage will affect your chances. Just get to work.
2. Those who are not too badly damaged (say, 3.4+, or redemption complete per #1) can consider rigorous traditional grad work in a hard science such as biochem, with pubs, to counter cumulative GPA. I recommend this as an SMP alternative in ridiculously competitive states like California, because SMP+OOS=$400k range. MPH or similar work is an EC and will have no impact on your chances.
3. When you have mastered most of the content on the MCAT, start hard MCAT prep. There's an SDN MCAT forum with strategies and tips. Don't get too excited about how you do on practice exams. Be more excited about getting to where you can succeed on any random quiz question on any subject. My knowledge of how to assess your readiness on the MCAT is circa 2010, so go be the grownup about the 2015 changes.
4. It is not okay to use MCAT retakes to figure out how to get a good score. It does not look "good" to show MCAT improvement over multiple takes. Having a low score followed by a good score is a neutralized red flag on your app. Take the MCAT seriously and don't lie to yourself about your readiness to sit for the exam. Reread #3.
5. Do not expect to be taken seriously in your med school ambition until you have a good MCAT score.
6. My strong opinion is that you should not go to med school, MD or DO or Carib, URM or ORM, without an MCAT score over 30, because there are endless similar exams in med school and in residency and you don't get time to figure out how to succeed on them during med school. Some of those exams will absolutely determine your residency choice. Figure out how to succeed on multiple choice hours-long exams before med school. Med schools are not doing you a favor by accepting you with a sub-30. Break 30 for yourself and for your future residency chances.
7. Do not try to do an MD SMP to speed things up until after you have multiple years of 3.7+ work in undergrad hard science or you will get crushed like a bug. Do not get excited about an SMP acceptance unless that acceptance is Temple or Tulane ACP. The other MD SMPs bear no responsibility for what happens to you after you drop $50k+ on their program. You have to be the grownup in charge of what an SMP is going to add to your app. Your undergrad record will still dominate your app after you successfully complete an SMP. In other words, do #1 before thinking about an SMP.
8. You get no credit for being enrolled in an SMP. The only thing shown by enrollment is commitment. Commitment does not trump your numbers. People who can apply MD during an SMP are those who got interviews and waitlists in a prior cycle. You have to successfully complete an SMP for an SMP to help your app. And your undergrad numbers will always always always be a concern regardless of your SMP performance.
9. A DO SMP is a reasonable option after you have B's or better in all the prereqs.
10. With low stats, nothing else matters but getting better stats. You are not a special snowflake in the huge pile of 5000+ apps at each school. Your heartwarming story and work experience and how good you look in a suit will not save you from low stats. Yes, obviously, you need good EC's, but stop thinking about your EC's once you've reached a typical premed EC list. Yes, obviously, keep doing your ~4 hr/wk clinical volunteering gig or similar while you're working on academics.
11. If you struggle with communication and/or your verbal score is below 9, because English is your 2nd+ language or whatever, I strongly recommend delaying med school to aggressively work on your mastery of the language in which you will work, by taking a retail or customer service job, or similarly putting yourself in a lengthy uncomfortable immersive experience where your livelihood depends on the judgment of unfriendly strangers. If you live or spend the majority of your time with people who don't speak English, that's part of the problem. You will not find a warm and welcoming reception on the other side of a med school acceptance if you are difficult to understand, or if you miss subtleties in reading or writing English, or if your spelling and/or grammar sucks. You will forever face hostility during med school, during residency, during practice. Having an accent isn't a problem; not being easy to understand by the general public is a problem. The harder you work on your English, the less discrimination you will face, and the better your opportunities will be. Is this fair? No. Is the real world fair? Nope.
12. Don't go to a med school that will let you in before you've done the work to prepare for med school. The Carib schools and the new crappy DO schools are happy to fail you out when you struggle.
If you want better or more specific info than the above, you are quite frankly delusional. With bad stats you are not expected to want to go to med school. Premed advisers get paid to help the kids who are likely to succeed in a traditional sense. With bad stats you are too difficult for premed advisers or the people who answer the phone at med schools to understand, and no, you are not likely to succeed. Period.
If you are confused by the above, don't reply with questions about your specific situation. Just don't. Dig in. Read it again. Build your body of knowledge. Read and read and read. Use the Google. Suffer for knowledge. Be the grownup.
I'm in my 3rd year of MD school after recovering from a 2.69 sGPA. robflanker is in his 4th year of MD school after GPA redemption work. We did not get here by asking people to figure things out for us.
Best of luck to you.
1. Produce a multi-year undergraduate performance worthy of med school. If you don't do this in your first 4+ years of undergrad, then you have to do about 1 very successful (3.7+) full time year of mostly hard science per standard deviation below the matriculant average. I will leave it as an exercise for you to figure out what that means. Don't get all distracted by which GPA matters most or get all nickel and dime on exact AMCAS/AACOMAS/TMDSAS differences. There is no formula or accurate prediction for how your transcript damage will affect your chances. Just get to work.
2. Those who are not too badly damaged (say, 3.4+, or redemption complete per #1) can consider rigorous traditional grad work in a hard science such as biochem, with pubs, to counter cumulative GPA. I recommend this as an SMP alternative in ridiculously competitive states like California, because SMP+OOS=$400k range. MPH or similar work is an EC and will have no impact on your chances.
3. When you have mastered most of the content on the MCAT, start hard MCAT prep. There's an SDN MCAT forum with strategies and tips. Don't get too excited about how you do on practice exams. Be more excited about getting to where you can succeed on any random quiz question on any subject. My knowledge of how to assess your readiness on the MCAT is circa 2010, so go be the grownup about the 2015 changes.
4. It is not okay to use MCAT retakes to figure out how to get a good score. It does not look "good" to show MCAT improvement over multiple takes. Having a low score followed by a good score is a neutralized red flag on your app. Take the MCAT seriously and don't lie to yourself about your readiness to sit for the exam. Reread #3.
5. Do not expect to be taken seriously in your med school ambition until you have a good MCAT score.
6. My strong opinion is that you should not go to med school, MD or DO or Carib, URM or ORM, without an MCAT score over 30, because there are endless similar exams in med school and in residency and you don't get time to figure out how to succeed on them during med school. Some of those exams will absolutely determine your residency choice. Figure out how to succeed on multiple choice hours-long exams before med school. Med schools are not doing you a favor by accepting you with a sub-30. Break 30 for yourself and for your future residency chances.
7. Do not try to do an MD SMP to speed things up until after you have multiple years of 3.7+ work in undergrad hard science or you will get crushed like a bug. Do not get excited about an SMP acceptance unless that acceptance is Temple or Tulane ACP. The other MD SMPs bear no responsibility for what happens to you after you drop $50k+ on their program. You have to be the grownup in charge of what an SMP is going to add to your app. Your undergrad record will still dominate your app after you successfully complete an SMP. In other words, do #1 before thinking about an SMP.
8. You get no credit for being enrolled in an SMP. The only thing shown by enrollment is commitment. Commitment does not trump your numbers. People who can apply MD during an SMP are those who got interviews and waitlists in a prior cycle. You have to successfully complete an SMP for an SMP to help your app. And your undergrad numbers will always always always be a concern regardless of your SMP performance.
9. A DO SMP is a reasonable option after you have B's or better in all the prereqs.
10. With low stats, nothing else matters but getting better stats. You are not a special snowflake in the huge pile of 5000+ apps at each school. Your heartwarming story and work experience and how good you look in a suit will not save you from low stats. Yes, obviously, you need good EC's, but stop thinking about your EC's once you've reached a typical premed EC list. Yes, obviously, keep doing your ~4 hr/wk clinical volunteering gig or similar while you're working on academics.
11. If you struggle with communication and/or your verbal score is below 9, because English is your 2nd+ language or whatever, I strongly recommend delaying med school to aggressively work on your mastery of the language in which you will work, by taking a retail or customer service job, or similarly putting yourself in a lengthy uncomfortable immersive experience where your livelihood depends on the judgment of unfriendly strangers. If you live or spend the majority of your time with people who don't speak English, that's part of the problem. You will not find a warm and welcoming reception on the other side of a med school acceptance if you are difficult to understand, or if you miss subtleties in reading or writing English, or if your spelling and/or grammar sucks. You will forever face hostility during med school, during residency, during practice. Having an accent isn't a problem; not being easy to understand by the general public is a problem. The harder you work on your English, the less discrimination you will face, and the better your opportunities will be. Is this fair? No. Is the real world fair? Nope.
12. Don't go to a med school that will let you in before you've done the work to prepare for med school. The Carib schools and the new crappy DO schools are happy to fail you out when you struggle.
If you want better or more specific info than the above, you are quite frankly delusional. With bad stats you are not expected to want to go to med school. Premed advisers get paid to help the kids who are likely to succeed in a traditional sense. With bad stats you are too difficult for premed advisers or the people who answer the phone at med schools to understand, and no, you are not likely to succeed. Period.
If you are confused by the above, don't reply with questions about your specific situation. Just don't. Dig in. Read it again. Build your body of knowledge. Read and read and read. Use the Google. Suffer for knowledge. Be the grownup.
I'm in my 3rd year of MD school after recovering from a 2.69 sGPA. robflanker is in his 4th year of MD school after GPA redemption work. We did not get here by asking people to figure things out for us.
Best of luck to you.
D
deleted248403
This is pretty much the only career field where you will take exams for the rest of your life. In med school, you take exams constantly. You will probably take 10 standardized exams before med school is over. Then you get to residency and you have Step 3, in-service training exams, and licensing exams. Then you have exams every 10 years to maintain your license and board status.
So, with that being said, a career where you will constantly take very hard tests does not seem to be well aligned with someone who doesnt test well. Whether its fair or not, those are the apples.
Okay I shouldn't have said bad test taker rather than just struggled with time management. I think the only reason I said that is because I'm frustrated with my performance last quarter. I have done reasonably well with exams however time management is probably my issue. That is why I've decided that a post bacc is probably my best option.
I'm fully aware of how many exams I'll get in the future as a med student and as a physician. My father is 65 and studying to take a board exam (probably for the last time). I just need to spend more time with strengthening my test taking skills and time management to a competitive level.
Thanks for your insight though!
Does anyone know if there is a comprehensive list of SMPs that have ties or "promises" with their medical schools.
There are 2. Both start with T. One requires that you be waitlisted somewhere before you can apply. The other requires minimum 3.4. You're the 3rd person to ask so far this year, so the info shouldn't be hard to find.
God you're ruthless... I love it!!
Hi,
Biomedical Engineering Major
3.35 cGPA
3.64 sGPA
36 MCAT
500+ hours shadowing
300+ hours research (4 articles submitted for publication, 1 selected to be presented at conference on which I am second author)
350+ hours Special Olympics volunteering (coach)
Various leadership positions in community and university
One organized fundraising trip that donated raised funds to an eye camp/clinic in India. Went there myself, assisted in perioperative care
2 interviews so far this cycle (state schools -VA)
GPA low due to one semester freshman year - personal reasons. Without that semester I would be at a 3.5/3.8. Made this point in both interviews and luckily they had the transcripts on them so they were able to see the degree to which I screwed up and how abnormal that was when compared with the rest of my semesters. Took MCAT right after that semester, summer of freshman year, to sort of kick start myself and get back up from my fall. I was also only 18 at the time all of this happened.
Looking at Georgetown SMP but recently found out about Tulane. Difficult to find information on the Tulane program, but I'm expecting to at least get on the waitlist for one of the schools I've interviewed at (although I realize nothing is for sure) and SDN forums for the program are barely a page in length. Anyone here know if I would be competitive? Any other suggestions? I'm confident I should be able to get in the next cycle (unless i miraculously get in this round), since my cGPA will most likely break the 3.5 mark, but I will have to take the MCAT again since I took it so early in the first place. Not too worried though, test taking has always been a strength.
Biomedical Engineering Major
3.35 cGPA
3.64 sGPA
36 MCAT
500+ hours shadowing
300+ hours research (4 articles submitted for publication, 1 selected to be presented at conference on which I am second author)
350+ hours Special Olympics volunteering (coach)
Various leadership positions in community and university
One organized fundraising trip that donated raised funds to an eye camp/clinic in India. Went there myself, assisted in perioperative care
2 interviews so far this cycle (state schools -VA)
GPA low due to one semester freshman year - personal reasons. Without that semester I would be at a 3.5/3.8. Made this point in both interviews and luckily they had the transcripts on them so they were able to see the degree to which I screwed up and how abnormal that was when compared with the rest of my semesters. Took MCAT right after that semester, summer of freshman year, to sort of kick start myself and get back up from my fall. I was also only 18 at the time all of this happened.
Looking at Georgetown SMP but recently found out about Tulane. Difficult to find information on the Tulane program, but I'm expecting to at least get on the waitlist for one of the schools I've interviewed at (although I realize nothing is for sure) and SDN forums for the program are barely a page in length. Anyone here know if I would be competitive? Any other suggestions? I'm confident I should be able to get in the next cycle (unless i miraculously get in this round), since my cGPA will most likely break the 3.5 mark, but I will have to take the MCAT again since I took it so early in the first place. Not too worried though, test taking has always been a strength.
this looks to me like a classic "didn't know i was supposed to apply early & broadly" story. when did you submit amcas (should be june 1) when was amcas complete (should be june) when were you complete with secondaries (should be <2 wks after getting them).
bio eng is a well known difficult major, well countered by your sGPA & strong MCAT. more to the point, your GPAs don't explain your lack of success, and they don't justify spending $50k+ on an SMP or moving several states away.
But your MCAT score is old, and that's going to be a problem next time. Get started on a retake right now and get your score back before the end of june.
see the reapplicant forum to get a better understanding of common mistakes.
best of luck to you.
bio eng is a well known difficult major, well countered by your sGPA & strong MCAT. more to the point, your GPAs don't explain your lack of success, and they don't justify spending $50k+ on an SMP or moving several states away.
But your MCAT score is old, and that's going to be a problem next time. Get started on a retake right now and get your score back before the end of june.
see the reapplicant forum to get a better understanding of common mistakes.
best of luck to you.
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Thank you for your advice.
I applied to 39 schools, keeping them mostly middle to low tier schools. I submitted AMCAS June 3, complete late June, and most of my secondaries were done by August although I will admit I slacked on a few - taking a month or so to complete them. I just think I was quickly sorted out during the preliminary screening because of my GPA, if that could have been reason enough. For example, I know my secondary for Tulane (medical school) was completed the very day I got it, but I ended up receiving a rejection just as quickly. But that could also be because of their insane number of applications every year.
This is why I am planning on going to an SMP. Tulane's seems like a good opportunity not only because the tuition is low (13,500) but also because the chance of getting into their medical school the following year is upwards of 80%. If I dont get in this coming cycle, I will have grades from my post-bacc to boost my application even further. Just wanted to understand my chances for getting into Tulane's program. Thought you may had some advice there, you seem to be familiar with many of the programs. Im also going to try to contact their office again.
I applied to 39 schools, keeping them mostly middle to low tier schools. I submitted AMCAS June 3, complete late June, and most of my secondaries were done by August although I will admit I slacked on a few - taking a month or so to complete them. I just think I was quickly sorted out during the preliminary screening because of my GPA, if that could have been reason enough. For example, I know my secondary for Tulane (medical school) was completed the very day I got it, but I ended up receiving a rejection just as quickly. But that could also be because of their insane number of applications every year.
This is why I am planning on going to an SMP. Tulane's seems like a good opportunity not only because the tuition is low (13,500) but also because the chance of getting into their medical school the following year is upwards of 80%. If I dont get in this coming cycle, I will have grades from my post-bacc to boost my application even further. Just wanted to understand my chances for getting into Tulane's program. Thought you may had some advice there, you seem to be familiar with many of the programs. Im also going to try to contact their office again.
Has anyone done or heard of the University of South Florida's Masters of Medical Science/Health Science program? Would this be considered a true SMP program?
I haven't taken the MCAT yet, but will be taking it soon on April 17th. I guess I will soon get the other half of the picture of where I stand.
Another question, does one only get one shot to do well in their undergraduate work in 4 years if they had their heart set on going to one of the more "prestigious" medical schools?
Will they even look at a rehabilitated undergraduate record?
Right now I am about to finish a Bachelor's completion program with a 3.4-3.5, (Physiology I & II, Physics I & II, Anatomy I & II, Organic Chemistry I & II, Histology, Biochemistry, Pharmacology, Immunology, Cell Biology, and Neuroscience. Are these the mostly hard sciences you are talking about?) and about to apply into USF's MS in Health Science once I do the MCAT. I also have been working as a full time Histotechnologist for the past five years.
Even if one does the rehabilitation, how will these grades average into your AMCAS GPA? Will those low grades continue to hurt you forever?
Can the classes taken in a senior year/post-bachelor's clinical laboratory science program count towards this sort of rehabilitation?
Clinical Chemistry & Clinical Microbiology I & II, Clinical Hematology, Hemostasis, Immunology, Immunohematology, and Microscopy, along with Clinical Management and Education, and Molecular Diagnostics?
I haven't taken the MCAT yet, but will be taking it soon on April 17th. I guess I will soon get the other half of the picture of where I stand.
Another question, does one only get one shot to do well in their undergraduate work in 4 years if they had their heart set on going to one of the more "prestigious" medical schools?
Will they even look at a rehabilitated undergraduate record?
Right now I am about to finish a Bachelor's completion program with a 3.4-3.5, (Physiology I & II, Physics I & II, Anatomy I & II, Organic Chemistry I & II, Histology, Biochemistry, Pharmacology, Immunology, Cell Biology, and Neuroscience. Are these the mostly hard sciences you are talking about?) and about to apply into USF's MS in Health Science once I do the MCAT. I also have been working as a full time Histotechnologist for the past five years.
Even if one does the rehabilitation, how will these grades average into your AMCAS GPA? Will those low grades continue to hurt you forever?
Can the classes taken in a senior year/post-bachelor's clinical laboratory science program count towards this sort of rehabilitation?
Clinical Chemistry & Clinical Microbiology I & II, Clinical Hematology, Hemostasis, Immunology, Immunohematology, and Microscopy, along with Clinical Management and Education, and Molecular Diagnostics?
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if you have a 3.4 GPA, or you've been waitlisted at a med school, then keep looking for linkage SMPs. if you don't have a 3.4 or a waitlist, then you need to look at regular SMPs. And since it's almost April, you can look at starting an SMP in August 2016. Which means you have boatloads of time to do research the old fashioned way: by doing research.
Do SMPs help people with low MCAT score? I have a good GPA (3.8), but MCAT score of 27. I took the MCAT the second time and doesn't seem like I am able to crack it (Verbal). Will SMP help me getting into med school? Also, what are your guys' thoughts on Rosalind Franklin University? They directly offer interviews and have high acceptance chances for people who do their SMP and perform well (getting As and Bs consistently).
Thanks you.
Thanks you.
The general consensus (solely based on the research that I've done on sdn) seems to be that a SMP will not remediate a low MCAT. With a 3.8 gpa and 27 MCAT, the best courses of action (per advice that has been given to applicants in your situation) for you are
A.) Apply early and broadly to mostly DO schools, and your state public MD schools
B.) Spend more time, money, and effort on preparing for the MCAT, rock it (506-510+) and them apply early and broadly to some DO schools, your state MDs, and out of state private MD schools.
The problem with doing a SMP with a 3.8 gpa (aside from the cost) is that if you do not do well then you will severely diminish your chance of getting into medical school, and if you do well then you will have done nothing more than to reenforce a quality that is already being demonstrated by your great gpa. In other words, it would be a 50k lose-tie risk. But I'm not an expert, and I fully admit that I could be way off base.
Good luck to you!
3.5/30, FL resident, waitlisted at MD program
Good research, clinical exposure, volunteering
Have applied to Temple, and UC. Should I consider adding others at this point? Thinking about Tulane and EVMS. I'm just hoping I can get off the waitlist
Isn't there a Tulane program for wait-listed students?
Yeah ACP I believe. Gathering all documents to apply for it now. Is it worth applying to Tulane's other programs?
I've also been thinking about EVMS and Tufts. Changes to the EVMS program has me second guessing if it will be worth the cost. But I really love their med school. I'll do more research on Tufts program although most students opt for the 2yr option there, but I'm hoping to apply during my SMP year.
D
deleted248403
Not really
Generally not a good idea - the whole year of good grades will really help your app. And 1 year in the overall scheme of things isn't much. I took 2 years between my application cycles, and 1 of those was a glide year after my post bac work
I mean it seems like they're proud of the "83% of people accepted to Tulane in the past 5 years" at ACP (and you qualify for admissions). 83% at the host school is higher than people at Cincinnati's program getting into UC... I would gun for Temple, obviously. Temple and Tulane SMP would be better for getting into the host medical school during your SMP year.
Hello, I hope this would be the appropriate place to ask this question. I'm currently juggling between Georgetown, Boson, and Tufts SMP (have acceptances and need to decide).
I'm not planning on applying to medical school this summer, Georgetown really pushes for same year apps though, so I suppose I could shoot an app there or something if I decided to go. My numbers are really subpar, I know this already. With cGPA- 3.11, sGPA- 2.89, and MCAT 31. I've got decent/good volunteering and shadowing experience and I've been out of school this past year working in a research lab in NYC (I rather not name it but it's a good research center here and I'm pretty sure it helped me get into the SMPs in the first place). My PI is also pushing for me to finish this project I'm working on and get a first author paper on it soon-ish. Idk how likely that is but, that's what I'm working towards atm.
Anyway, considering all of that, I'm definitely going to way till I finish the SMP coursework year to apply broadly, and also retake the MCAT. NYC is competitive, so I don't care if I get into school here or not. Idk how residency status works but with my parents living in different states I was considered in-state in Wisconsin when I went to school there but am a NY resident with my mom too. I was just wondering which of these 3 schools would be best for my purposes in your opinions?
I've more or less settled on Boston due to the 2 year nature of the program, but if I look at realistically, Georgetown seems to be the "best" in terms of the purpose of the SMP which is take a bunch of med school classes. And I could still apply after finishing off the year in Georgetown. But I get the feeling this program is more suited to someone who is closer to getting admitted (a higher GPA and MCAT than mine).
I'm not planning on applying to medical school this summer, Georgetown really pushes for same year apps though, so I suppose I could shoot an app there or something if I decided to go. My numbers are really subpar, I know this already. With cGPA- 3.11, sGPA- 2.89, and MCAT 31. I've got decent/good volunteering and shadowing experience and I've been out of school this past year working in a research lab in NYC (I rather not name it but it's a good research center here and I'm pretty sure it helped me get into the SMPs in the first place). My PI is also pushing for me to finish this project I'm working on and get a first author paper on it soon-ish. Idk how likely that is but, that's what I'm working towards atm.
Anyway, considering all of that, I'm definitely going to way till I finish the SMP coursework year to apply broadly, and also retake the MCAT. NYC is competitive, so I don't care if I get into school here or not. Idk how residency status works but with my parents living in different states I was considered in-state in Wisconsin when I went to school there but am a NY resident with my mom too. I was just wondering which of these 3 schools would be best for my purposes in your opinions?
I've more or less settled on Boston due to the 2 year nature of the program, but if I look at realistically, Georgetown seems to be the "best" in terms of the purpose of the SMP which is take a bunch of med school classes. And I could still apply after finishing off the year in Georgetown. But I get the feeling this program is more suited to someone who is closer to getting admitted (a higher GPA and MCAT than mine).
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Hello!
I'm a rising Korean American senior at a small liberal arts school in Virginia. I've recently decided to take a gap year, and I am kind of at a loss of what to do. I am considering applying to SMPs, but I'm not sure if it would help.
I have finished my major in chemistry, and am just taking elective classes and classes to finish my minors in Studio art and math my final year of undergrad.
cGPA/sGPA 3.4
MCAT (from practice tests)-averaged 35-36
EMT (on campus EMT/EMT downtown)
scribe at a local free clinic
Research 1.5 years in an organic chem lab, but no publications
Head Resident Assistant on campus
I'm worried about my GPA because it is on the lower end of the spectrum. Would it be worth doing an SMP? or should I find some other way to supplement my application.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I'm a rising Korean American senior at a small liberal arts school in Virginia. I've recently decided to take a gap year, and I am kind of at a loss of what to do. I am considering applying to SMPs, but I'm not sure if it would help.
I have finished my major in chemistry, and am just taking elective classes and classes to finish my minors in Studio art and math my final year of undergrad.
cGPA/sGPA 3.4
MCAT (from practice tests)-averaged 35-36
EMT (on campus EMT/EMT downtown)
scribe at a local free clinic
Research 1.5 years in an organic chem lab, but no publications
Head Resident Assistant on campus
I'm worried about my GPA because it is on the lower end of the spectrum. Would it be worth doing an SMP? or should I find some other way to supplement my application.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Would the TCMC MBS program be considered a true SMP if they stressed during the interview day that the coursework closely mirrored that of the MD 1st year curriculum?
I'm guessing people here will likely tell you that taking a la carte undergrad classes to get your GPA to a 3.5 will probably be your best bet followed by an SMP (which I think is a bit of a gamble). I'd do the calculation and see whether you can make that push within a reasonable amount of time (i.e semesters). MBSs I think are aimed at your GPA range so I'd look at those before a true SMP.
From what I've learned, success in a true SMP( >3.7) will get you into MD school. But there's inherent risk as getting below a 3.7 isn't unlikely either.
If you succeed in a post bac kind of masters that's not a true SMP, it's going to help of course but it's unlikely that MD schools will disregard poor undergrad performance in favor of grad GPA, unless you're supported by an upward trend.
It's weird but I view it as if matriculating to an SMP makes succeeding a gamble while with matriculating to a post bac type masters (MBSs, etc.) you're gambling whether medical schools will view it with the same importance as your undergrad GPA.
FWIW, I had a friend with the same GPA as you (slightly lower sGPA) and (assuming your MCAT jives with your practice scores) a lower MCAT (33) from a top 15 university get into her state school on her first cycle after doing an MPH. Have you looked into doing something like that? Like the above poster said, an SMP is a risky venture, and it would be a shame to throw away what are pretty good stats with a less-than-stellar performance in an SMP. Your EC's look good -- continue doing clinical work, write solid essays, apply early and broadly, and I think you have a pretty good shot. Even if you end up on some waitlists, you can apply to a program like Tulane ACP which has essentially a 100% success rate of matriculating its students into Tulane SOM. Just my $0.02.
Good luck!
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