I am on the waitlist for a couple SMPs (RFU and Tufts). If I am accepted, what would I have to do to get a loan? How does the process work? I haven't filled out a FAFSA yet, should I go ahead and do that now in case I am accepted in June/July? Or, would you recommend waiting until I am accepted to fill out a FAFSA (until say... July)? It says the federal deadline to file a FAFSA is june 30th for this year. Does this mean that I will not be eligible to get a loan for this $50k program if I don't fill it out before that? If anyone knows the answers to these questions, please share your thoughts/responses...
**The Official Guide to Special Masters Programs**
- Thread starter braluk
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D
deleted248403
You should fill out FAFSA now unless you got $50k cash lying around
Are you saying that if I apply in July I wont be able to get into the program because I wont get a loan under any circumstance?
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deleted248403
If the deadline for FAFSA says June 30th, I would think its unlikely the federal government would give you a loan in July. You may be able to get one from there - but they also might say no, so you'd be SOL.
You can always get a personal loan whenever you want but thats not advisable if you can get FAFSA
Just do FAFSA, you don't have to know where you are going yet to submit the necessary info
hey I have a question. Say I got accepted into say an average postbac but I do well in it and can also apply as a state resident afterwards. The state has 6-7 public medschools which take show favor for in-state students. But, I also got accepted into a more rigorous post-bac like BU. While graduating from BU might give me a better opportunity to their medschool and others inside the state, there's less medical schools and they're more competitive compared to the other post-bacc's. Should I just go for the average post-bac? Seems like that's my best chance of getting into medschool.
Hello! Just a quick question!
Lets say I graduate with a cgpa of 3.45 and a sgpa of 3.2 with a 36 MCAT and a strong upward trend (4.0 in the last two semesters of my senior year).
I didnt do well in most of my prereqs mostly Bs and Cs (freshamn and sophomore year mainly) but when I took upper level science courses I got As (junior and senior)
I am thinking of taking a gap year and applying to Med schools. However, I am a not sure whether I should go for a SMP or a post bac to retake some classes where I got Cs and take upper level science courses to improve my ugpa since my gpa is borderline.
Based on what I read so far SMPs seem more appropriate for people with gpa below 3.0. So is this really not a good idea? Or in my case would it be better to apply to a masters program like JHU, Duke MBS, U Mich MS Phys, or CWR MS in Phys or take some classes to ammend my ugpa as much as possible (i.e till 3.53)?
Lets say I graduate with a cgpa of 3.45 and a sgpa of 3.2 with a 36 MCAT and a strong upward trend (4.0 in the last two semesters of my senior year).
I didnt do well in most of my prereqs mostly Bs and Cs (freshamn and sophomore year mainly) but when I took upper level science courses I got As (junior and senior)
I am thinking of taking a gap year and applying to Med schools. However, I am a not sure whether I should go for a SMP or a post bac to retake some classes where I got Cs and take upper level science courses to improve my ugpa since my gpa is borderline.
Based on what I read so far SMPs seem more appropriate for people with gpa below 3.0. So is this really not a good idea? Or in my case would it be better to apply to a masters program like JHU, Duke MBS, U Mich MS Phys, or CWR MS in Phys or take some classes to ammend my ugpa as much as possible (i.e till 3.53)?
Many SMPs have gpa cutoffs at 3.0. In general, SMPs target ugpas in the range of 3.0-3.3 or 3.4. In your situation an SMP or post bac would not be a bad idea in my opinion. Your cgpa is borderline too high for an SMP, but your sgpa is very low and would benefit a great deal by a strong SMP performance. An upward tend of 2 semesters may not be enough to convince adcoms, so you are doing the right thing by considering a post bac.
I've been looking for consensus on this but there isn't one.
I think you'd benefit by raising your GPAs a bit with classes and then following it up with one of those not-so-SMP masters that you just mentioned or perhaps an SMP. I honestly don't think you're at all low enough (despite your bcpm GPA) to make an SMP worth the risk unless you're accepted to Temple (which has guaranteed admission after a year). How much can you raise your bcpmGPA with ~20-40 credits of 3.7-4.0 coursework?
Again, I'd recommend strongly against the SMP in your position because your GPA is fine even if your BCPM is lacking. If you do decide to go SMP though, and find success (gpa>3.6-3.7) you may open doors to more schools than you would with the non SMP masters.
The risk factor is the the deciding factor (imo) but if you're confident in your ability, either course of action would get you where you want to go.
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SMPs are becoming more and more popular with applicants with >3.5 GPAs as a way to boost their credentials. I suspect this will inevitably lead to SMPs becoming more and more competitive, but who knows.
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I agree with the overall idea. but with a cGPA of 3.5 right now, a program like UPenn SSP or even doing like an MPH is a better idea than an SMP
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I largely agree. The problem is my Ca brethren and I can testify to the immense amount of problems that a 3.5 MD OOS applicant has nowadays.
Hey, thank you so much for your quick response. And I apologize for my late response. I have an upward trend of 4 semesters total F: 3.2 S: 3.0 J: 3.5 S: 4.0 sorry for not clarifying earlier. I calculated my gpa assuming I am taking around 16-18 credits each semester during my gap year and taking a couple classes over summer and it will be around ~3.5-3.55 cgpa and around 3.35-3.4 sgpa (This of course assuming I do well in my classes).
If I do an SMP like program I would apply while doing the program, which means my grades won't get submitted until the fall. To my understanding programs like CWR MS in Phys. and BU MAMS have true value when you do their 2-year program instead of just their 1-year. Would you still recommend doing an SMP/SMP-like program over just an informal post-bac?
Hey, thank you for your response. And I am sorry I replied late.
Assuming I do an informal post-bac and take classes at a program like Harvard Extension or Berkeley Extension or just stay another year at my institution during my gap year + summer and do well I can raise my cgpa to ~3.5-3.55 and my sgpa to ~3.35-3.4.
I am planning to apply during the year I am doing the program so I won't be able to send my fall semester grades until I am done with that semester. Given this, if I do a program like BU MAMS or CWR MS in Phys. I would just do their 1-year program.
Hey ZedsDed,
what do you mean by this? I am an Asian-Hispanic that recently gained CA residency, how does being a CA resident applying OOS with a 3.5 pose an immense amount of problems.
my interpretation: means usually in-state people can have lower stats than OOS and have a decent chance at medschool. But in CA, the sheer quantity of qualified applicants doesn't give you much of an edge as it would in other states.
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Also, I am talking about MD applicants. DO applicants with a 3.5 should be fine (contingent on MCAT score.)
This isn't to say that a Ca 3.5 applicant can't get in anywhere, just that it will be an uphill battle.
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Hello Everyone!
I have been doing some research regarding SMP or Post Bacc program and I am hoping that someone might have an opinion on a good program for me. I am concerned because after reading it sounds like the best candidates are only concerned with low GPA and I have both a low GPA as well as low MCAT. I do have an upward trend in my uGPA, but I took the MCAT twice and achieved the same score. I knew I wasn't ready the second time and it was a poor choice on my part to take it anyway. Any way here are my stats:
cGPA: 3.02
sGPA: 2.9
MCAT: 25
I graduated from undergrad spring of 2014 and the first year after undergrad I worked in a psychology clinic in which the primary clientele was physicians who were reported for misconduct to their boards. I am currently working for a large state university medical center doing research. I have some conference presentations and I will have at least 2 but probably closer to 5 publications by the end of the year, one of which I am first author.
Any advice is appreciated, I am aware that my stats are low, so any opinion on the best way to remedy my situation would be great.
I have been doing some research regarding SMP or Post Bacc program and I am hoping that someone might have an opinion on a good program for me. I am concerned because after reading it sounds like the best candidates are only concerned with low GPA and I have both a low GPA as well as low MCAT. I do have an upward trend in my uGPA, but I took the MCAT twice and achieved the same score. I knew I wasn't ready the second time and it was a poor choice on my part to take it anyway. Any way here are my stats:
cGPA: 3.02
sGPA: 2.9
MCAT: 25
I graduated from undergrad spring of 2014 and the first year after undergrad I worked in a psychology clinic in which the primary clientele was physicians who were reported for misconduct to their boards. I am currently working for a large state university medical center doing research. I have some conference presentations and I will have at least 2 but probably closer to 5 publications by the end of the year, one of which I am first author.
Any advice is appreciated, I am aware that my stats are low, so any opinion on the best way to remedy my situation would be great.
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Please make your own thread so others can benefit, and you can get more advice.
Get your science GPA above a 3.0 with a diy post bac for a year (retake C's and below, otherwise upper level science) choose a reputable MCAT program to ride your ass to above a 508 MCAT, apply to an SMP (get above 3.6), apply broadly to DO, MD... profit!
If you're interested in what I mean about the MCAT prep, PM me. The only thing that sucks is that if your improve your MCAT dramatically, the ability of adcoms to compare your improvement between the old and new test might be limited.
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Thanks for the response ayylmao!
I was looking at my transcript for my general undergrad and it didn't take into account and transfer credits. I calculated my AMCAS GPA and BCPM GPA and its slightly lower with my transfer credits.
cGPA: 2.95
sGPA: 2.797
I have looked into retaking science courses that I received a C in, which were all during my freshman or sophomore years and even if I re-take all of the C's because I have 104 science credits I don't know that I can get my sGPA up to a 3.0 in a year. I have already done 5 years of undergrad with 2 majors so I would really prefer to not have more than 1 year of additional school if possible. Do you think that there are any SMP programs that I could get into with my stats? I do have good clinical experience and LOR if they take that into account as well.
Do the SMP programs consider your undergrad GPA from your school, which doesn't calculate transfer credits into GPA or the AMCAS GPA which calculates everything including courses which have been re-taken?
I appreciate the input! Thanks!
I was looking at my transcript for my general undergrad and it didn't take into account and transfer credits. I calculated my AMCAS GPA and BCPM GPA and its slightly lower with my transfer credits.
cGPA: 2.95
sGPA: 2.797
I have looked into retaking science courses that I received a C in, which were all during my freshman or sophomore years and even if I re-take all of the C's because I have 104 science credits I don't know that I can get my sGPA up to a 3.0 in a year. I have already done 5 years of undergrad with 2 majors so I would really prefer to not have more than 1 year of additional school if possible. Do you think that there are any SMP programs that I could get into with my stats? I do have good clinical experience and LOR if they take that into account as well.
Do the SMP programs consider your undergrad GPA from your school, which doesn't calculate transfer credits into GPA or the AMCAS GPA which calculates everything including courses which have been re-taken?
I appreciate the input! Thanks!
You could be a good candidate for EVMS SMP 2 year program with your statistics.
But even if you do get into a SMP, your sub 3.0 gpas could be a roadblock for you when you apply to medical school, depending on your state of residence and program that you attend.
And most, if not all, programs will look at all of your transcripts.
Hey, no problem! I think the advice you're going to hear around these parts is that you shouldn't apply to an SMP without your GPAs over a 3.0. There's no guarantee of admission after your smp and having a GPA below 3.0 will make medical school admissions a difficult venture (even with stellar SMP grades).
Have you calculated what your GPAs might be with grade replacement (for DO) rather than just averaging them in (for MD)? This might be a good alternative/backup if you're interested in less competitive residencies (I'm interested in psych/neuro personally, so while I'm gunning for the MD, getting into DO is far from the end of the world)
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My .02
Even if you have a significant upward trend (3.7+ senior year), it would be wise to try and get your GPA over a 3.0. People aren't saying this to be annoying, plenty of schools will auto screen a GPA that is <3.0.
I don't know what to tell you, I had 6.5 years of undergrad. SMPs that are legit are going to want to see at least one year of strong grades (3.7+) and a strong MCAT score (30+) before they take you. In your case, two more years of ug plus a successful SMP year might be necessary (for MD schools.) It's totally understandable to look at the massive amount of work that comes with GPA redemption (and, in your case, MCAT redemption) and get discouraged, just remember it's doable if you are willing to dedicate multiple years and give it your all.
BTW, EVMS will not save you here, and they are rapidly losing credibility anyway.
EC's are pretty irrelevant with your stats unfortunately. But, it's good to make sure you get in all clinical experience, non-clinical experience, shadowing, etc. Lack of EC's would be a stupid reason to keep you out of med school at this point.
My point is, if you go into an SMP now, with no upward grade trend, a <3.0 GPA, a poor MCAT score, and somehow manage to succeed in med school classes, AdCom's are liable to think your recent academic success is an exception to the rule. Your best bet, in my opinion, would be to shoot for one of the DO SMPs with linkage, and go from there. MD SMPs with linkage are largely a thing of the past, and you are unfortunately not competitive for the few that are left.
Even if you have a significant upward trend (3.7+ senior year), it would be wise to try and get your GPA over a 3.0. People aren't saying this to be annoying, plenty of schools will auto screen a GPA that is <3.0.
I don't know what to tell you, I had 6.5 years of undergrad. SMPs that are legit are going to want to see at least one year of strong grades (3.7+) and a strong MCAT score (30+) before they take you. In your case, two more years of ug plus a successful SMP year might be necessary (for MD schools.) It's totally understandable to look at the massive amount of work that comes with GPA redemption (and, in your case, MCAT redemption) and get discouraged, just remember it's doable if you are willing to dedicate multiple years and give it your all.
BTW, EVMS will not save you here, and they are rapidly losing credibility anyway.
EC's are pretty irrelevant with your stats unfortunately. But, it's good to make sure you get in all clinical experience, non-clinical experience, shadowing, etc. Lack of EC's would be a stupid reason to keep you out of med school at this point.
My point is, if you go into an SMP now, with no upward grade trend, a <3.0 GPA, a poor MCAT score, and somehow manage to succeed in med school classes, AdCom's are liable to think your recent academic success is an exception to the rule. Your best bet, in my opinion, would be to shoot for one of the DO SMPs with linkage, and go from there. MD SMPs with linkage are largely a thing of the past, and you are unfortunately not competitive for the few that are left.
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Thanks all for the advice!
So as far as a post-bacc were to go, do you all suggest I do a post-bacc on my own at the university I received my undergrad or would a post-bacc program like UC San Diego's Premedical Post-Bacc be a better choice. My understanding is that all post-bacc programs will go towards your uGPA, but I'd like to be certain of that.
Does anyone know if the certificate programs are considered post-bacc as well and will count towards a uGPA or just if they are designated as "post-bacc"? I know that there are a few certificate programs, which can lead straight into an SMP following the first year, but I don't know if the first year counts towards uGPA and the second year is grad GPA or how that works.
Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks again!
So as far as a post-bacc were to go, do you all suggest I do a post-bacc on my own at the university I received my undergrad or would a post-bacc program like UC San Diego's Premedical Post-Bacc be a better choice. My understanding is that all post-bacc programs will go towards your uGPA, but I'd like to be certain of that.
Does anyone know if the certificate programs are considered post-bacc as well and will count towards a uGPA or just if they are designated as "post-bacc"? I know that there are a few certificate programs, which can lead straight into an SMP following the first year, but I don't know if the first year counts towards uGPA and the second year is grad GPA or how that works.
Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks again!
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[personal info removed]
Got into a bunch of SMPs, I will be going with Georgetown.
With my numbers it is unlikely for me to see success this cycle, which brings me to a question -
Would doing a DIY post bacc GPA redemption in my hypothetical gap year after smp would benefit my application? I am concerned, since I don't think it is common to take undergrad postbacc classes after completing a master's program and frankly it seems like a step back, however I don't see what else can bring my uGPA to a more acceptable cutoff value. Additionally, from anecdotal evidence I started noticing a trend that only about top 10%-20% of any given program's student body succeeds with applications (and of those even fewer have such low incoming uGPA as I do).
Here's my earlier post.
Thank you.
Got into a bunch of SMPs, I will be going with Georgetown.
With my numbers it is unlikely for me to see success this cycle, which brings me to a question -
Would doing a DIY post bacc GPA redemption in my hypothetical gap year after smp would benefit my application? I am concerned, since I don't think it is common to take undergrad postbacc classes after completing a master's program and frankly it seems like a step back, however I don't see what else can bring my uGPA to a more acceptable cutoff value. Additionally, from anecdotal evidence I started noticing a trend that only about top 10%-20% of any given program's student body succeeds with applications (and of those even fewer have such low incoming uGPA as I do).
Here's my earlier post.
Thank you.
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Huh? This statistic is very off. Especially if we are talking about Georgetown.
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Hey! I'm in a similar situation as you (or going to be), so I just want to know what you decided to do and how that turns out. thanks!
I want to be clear on what constitutes a SMP. Would something like these count?
CSU Fort Collins:
Master of Science in Biomedical Sciences (1 year) with Choice of Option (human anatomy, animal anatomy, or neurobiology)
http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/academics/bms/Pages/one-year-master-science-biomedical-sciences.aspx
or
UNMC:
A one-year M.S. in Medical Anatomy
http://www.unmc.edu/genetics/education/degree-programs/master-science.html
CSU Fort Collins:
Master of Science in Biomedical Sciences (1 year) with Choice of Option (human anatomy, animal anatomy, or neurobiology)
http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/academics/bms/Pages/one-year-master-science-biomedical-sciences.aspx
or
UNMC:
A one-year M.S. in Medical Anatomy
http://www.unmc.edu/genetics/education/degree-programs/master-science.html
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Those are one-year terminal masters programs. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of one-year terminal masters programs. They aren't explicitly designed for the sole purpose of getting lowish GPA premeds a highly recognizable asset on a med school app. They might be helpful in getting you into med school.
An SMP, by contrast, is a year with the 1st year medical students at a medical school taking medical school classes and medical school exams. There are maybe 15 SMPs. These programs exist for the sole reason of getting lower GPA premeds a highly recognizable academic asset on a med school app. They might be helpful in getting you into med school. They don't exist west of the Mississippi.
You need info from alumni of those programs. We don't get alumni from those programs in this forum. Ask their admissions office to put you in touch with alumni.
Best of luck to you.
An SMP, by contrast, is a year with the 1st year medical students at a medical school taking medical school classes and medical school exams. There are maybe 15 SMPs. These programs exist for the sole reason of getting lower GPA premeds a highly recognizable academic asset on a med school app. They might be helpful in getting you into med school. They don't exist west of the Mississippi.
You need info from alumni of those programs. We don't get alumni from those programs in this forum. Ask their admissions office to put you in touch with alumni.
Best of luck to you.
Thank you for clarifying. My concern is a low undergraduate GPA in upper division courses/lack of upper division science coursework. I transferred from community college to Berkeley with a 3.9 but earned nearly straight Bs while there (I was a humanities major) bringing my undergrad GPA to 3.6. I attended a Master's in English and got a 3.6 as well. I then took all my med prereqs through cc and have a 4.0 but it's cc (I attempted extended studies through local universities but the classes were always impacted). I feel lack of upper div science courses/prereqs at a cc is my biggest weakness and some kind of masters in science would show I can take upper div science work, provided I do well.
The SMPs at 40-50k vs other one year masters at 20-30k I'm leaning toward the latter.
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Still reasonable. However I challenge you to look for options 3 & 4, motivated by a consideration of the total debt you'll have on the other side of med school. (There may or may not be cheap/flexible/effective options 3 & 4. Not looking for them doesn't mean they don't exist.)
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So I have a question!
I graduated with my degree in Exercise Science and I was pre-med in college. Unfortunately, I could not fit Biochemistry or genetics into my full course load, otherwise, all my other prereqs are done.
Here are my stats:
BCPM: 3.53
Overall: 3.7
MCAT: 491 <-- I plan on retaking the MCAT after taking biochemistry in Spring and taking a prep course since self-studying obviously did not work out for me.
I'm looking into SMPs for Summer/Fall 2016. I have looked into several SMP programs and I am unsure where to start. Please let me know your opinions!
I graduated with my degree in Exercise Science and I was pre-med in college. Unfortunately, I could not fit Biochemistry or genetics into my full course load, otherwise, all my other prereqs are done.
Here are my stats:
BCPM: 3.53
Overall: 3.7
MCAT: 491 <-- I plan on retaking the MCAT after taking biochemistry in Spring and taking a prep course since self-studying obviously did not work out for me.
I'm looking into SMPs for Summer/Fall 2016. I have looked into several SMP programs and I am unsure where to start. Please let me know your opinions!
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A 491 is about a 22 on the old MCAT. I would be very surprised if reputable SMPs were willing to take you without correcting that first (assuming we are talking about MD SMPs.) Also, you really don't need an SMP with a 3.53 sGPA and 3.7 cGPA, imo.
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Thanks for the response, ZedsDed.
I intended on applying to med school this year (AMCAS was basically filled out), but because of my low MCAT score I decided to pull and wait another year (I doubt that I would be able to pull my MCAT score 10-15 pts by Sept). I just did not want to not go to school for another year. I am taking biochemistry and genetics in Spring. What would you recommend for someone in my shoes?
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I can only tell you what I would do in your shoes. I would take whatever prereqs you need to do well on the MCAT. At the same time, I would review old concepts you are weak in. Then I would devote however much time it takes (at least 3 months) to get practice scores above what you are shooting for. The whole process may very well take a year, considering the distance you have to travel. Even though your GPA is decent, such a low MCAT score will raise concerns with AdCom's that you did not learn the material properly. In other words, your priority should be:
1.) MCAT
2.) MCAT
3.) MCAT
If you do all of the above and your MCAT score is not quite where you want it to be but still decent (~28), you should have your pick of quite a few DO schools.
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Like perhaps creating my own custom "program" of taking upper division science courses through open enrollment at my local universities?
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D
deleted602749
Hello,
I would appreciate your opinion 🙂
Non-traditional applicant.
cGPA 3.08
sGPA 3.03
200 cGPA hours and 153 sGPA hours.
To raise my sGPA to at-least 3.5 I need to take something like 80 4-credit classes.
Science Major (BS in Chemistry from Drexel U in 2007)
Do not have generally upwards curve, my GPA is all over the place with 3.3 in a senior year.
First attempt MCAT is 22, planning on retaking in Jan2016.
I think Post-Bacc is out of the question due to having all but one science prerequisite which I'm taking in Sep2015
With improved MCAT and completed science Prerequisite do I stand a chance of getting into at-least a Mid-tier MD-SMP in Fall2016?
Thank you
I would appreciate your opinion 🙂
Non-traditional applicant.
cGPA 3.08
sGPA 3.03
200 cGPA hours and 153 sGPA hours.
To raise my sGPA to at-least 3.5 I need to take something like 80 4-credit classes.
Science Major (BS in Chemistry from Drexel U in 2007)
Do not have generally upwards curve, my GPA is all over the place with 3.3 in a senior year.
First attempt MCAT is 22, planning on retaking in Jan2016.
I think Post-Bacc is out of the question due to having all but one science prerequisite which I'm taking in Sep2015
With improved MCAT and completed science Prerequisite do I stand a chance of getting into at-least a Mid-tier MD-SMP in Fall2016?
Thank you
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Hello,
Would appreciate your opinions 🙂
BS degree from UCLA
cGPA: 3.46
sGPA: 3.41
Mcat: 28 retaking in January
Done both clinical research and bench work. Volunteered abroad for a clinic. Publishing this year.
I'm looking into the Georgetown postbac, ucsd postbac, USC global medicine program, and recently the Rosalind Franklin prematriculation.
Thank you for all the help!
Would appreciate your opinions 🙂
BS degree from UCLA
cGPA: 3.46
sGPA: 3.41
Mcat: 28 retaking in January
Done both clinical research and bench work. Volunteered abroad for a clinic. Publishing this year.
I'm looking into the Georgetown postbac, ucsd postbac, USC global medicine program, and recently the Rosalind Franklin prematriculation.
Thank you for all the help!
Don't do an SMP with those stats. Look into increasing your GPA with some classes (if you feel like it) or doing a less intensive masters program (if you feel like it). And the mcat obviously. And apply DO as a backup.
The MCAT obviously. SMP is appropriate with your GPA or you can apply DO, maybe with some retakes (there was some drama regarding DO retakes on SDN that you should research unfortunately, if this is of interest). Apply to DO as a backup in either case.
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Hello Everyone!
I have been doing some research regarding SMPs and I am hoping to get some advice if SMP program is what I should do to help me as reapplicant next year and any suitable SMPs that I should look into. I applied to 50 medical schools this year throughout US, no interviews, and a lot of pre-interview rejections. Most secondaries were completed before the end of August. No obvious red flags. Here are my stats:
cGPA: 3.7
sGPA: 3.6
MCAT: 32
About 500 hours of research, and 400 hours of non-clinical volunteer work.
I have been doing some research regarding SMPs and I am hoping to get some advice if SMP program is what I should do to help me as reapplicant next year and any suitable SMPs that I should look into. I applied to 50 medical schools this year throughout US, no interviews, and a lot of pre-interview rejections. Most secondaries were completed before the end of August. No obvious red flags. Here are my stats:
cGPA: 3.7
sGPA: 3.6
MCAT: 32
About 500 hours of research, and 400 hours of non-clinical volunteer work.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
- Messages
- 9,272
- Reaction score
- 11,011
No clinical experience? Me thinks your stats are not what's keeping you out.
