**The Official Guide to Special Masters Programs**

[Davnport]

Hello, I am interested in applying to med school first thing next June. That will, however, leave me with the dreaded "1 year" waiting period in which I will be trying to fill in as productively as possible.

I graduated in 2004 from UC Berkeley with a degree in Molecular and Cellular biology. My cum GPA was 3.4, upper div GPA 3.6 (all UD classes were science/major related) my MCAT was 30Q (11PS, 9VR, 10BS). I have been working in labs since graduation, but I feel like medicine is definitely my calling. I have shadowed doctors, and I will be volunteering in various areas of medicine over the next year.

I feel like I could set up an application that will get me into at least one medical school; definitely not top tier, but I am not really concerned with the prestige of the school so much as the teacher-student interaction. My biggest question is whether or not the gap year program would be beneficial for me. I am not going to say that money is not a problem for me, but as far as education goes, I am willing to accrue debt since the end result will be a career path for which I have a passion. Since I have been out of school for 3 years, it seems like attending one of the SMPs would show schools that I have what it takes to still succeed in an academic setting - yet it almost seems like this board believes that the SMPs are better for lower GPAs (which I definitely feel like my gpa is on the low end, and if I am off in my recap of "SMP for lower grades", I apologize).

I am really interested in a one year program (I'd prefer to stay away from a 2yr plan) and Georgetown and U. Cinn seem to fit the bill. Does any one else have SMP program suggestions that they absolutely felt were fantastic indicators of Med School, that had a one year program (thesis or not), and that you would recommend others attend?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions that you all have! This is a fantastic thread that has been super helpful.

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[drizzt3117]

Your stats are sufficiently good that you can probably get into a US school without a SMP, at least IMO. Certainly success at a SMP would be helpful but I would just as soon apply broadly with your scores which are very close to average for applicants. It sounds like your ECs are fairly strong and I think you would get quite a bit of interest from allo schools.

 

[halekulani]

davnport - don't do an smp just to 'fill the time'. that's just about the WORST thing you can do. SMP is a high risk - if you don't do well you're screwed.

 

[Davnport]

davnport - don't do an smp just to 'fill the time'. that's just about the WORST thing you can do. SMP is a high risk - if you don't do well you're screwed.

First and foremost, thank you for your responses. All help is much appreciated and I know how valuable every one's time is here on this forum.

Next, forgive me for being so loose with my words in my original post. I am not simply looking to "fill the time". My intent is to use my time "productively". I definitely understand that medical school is competitive and I have no intention of taking its curriculum lightly. To the same extent, since an SMP is designed to offer med school classes, I view SMPs with the same seriousness as med school.

The pith of my question lies in whether or not, given my stats, applying to an SMP would help me get into more medical schools (I realize that I just need one school to accept me, but I am looking for the "right" one for me). I have eaten up 3 years already since my graduation and therefore I do not feel as though I can risk anymore of my time dawdling. Next spring I will be applying to a broad range of medical schools. What I am wondering is whether or not an SMP will help someone who is so "middle of the road" as I am? Remember too, I am not concerned with the tuition costs as much as I am concerned with boosting my chances of getting into a medical school of my choice (with the reality that I don't really have the stats to get into a top-tier school firmly planted in my head). Here are some of the schools I am interested in (none of my choices being in any particular order):

Thomas Jefferson
NYMC
George Washington
MC of Wisconsin
Michigan State
Oregon Health & Science Univ
Penn State
Rosalind Franklin
SUNY upstate
U of Illinois
U of Kansas
U of Miami
U of Michigan
U of Vermont
U of Toledo (I think it was MC of OH)
U of Wisconsin Madison
Albert Eistein

Dream choices:
UCD
UCI
Stanford (I want to teach)
U of Rochester
Tufts
USC

I am also considering some Osteopathics as well.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[Jericho1057]

I graduated from undergrad with a 3.27 GPA and a 3.1 science GPA. Every semester I was at school my CUM improved. Nonetheless, I knew I didn't stand a chance of getting into med school so I went to the Georgetown SMP in 2007. I graduated from this program with a 3.7.

I took the MCATs twice
Verbal 8 Biological 9 Physical 13
Verbal 8 Biological 11 Physical 13

This year I am volunteering at my local fire department and getting certified as an EMT. I am also conducting research at a local laboratory on breast cancer.

I am applying to a bunch of med schools (29) for 2008. I have devoted a lot into getting into to med school and I am getting a little gunshy. Does anyone have an idea of what my chances actually are?

 

[marie14]

So I have applied (broadly) for Fall 2008 and have yet to get an interview. i've gotten a few rejections (and a weird phobia of small, skinny envelopes in the mail). I'm thinking if things don't start get rolling here soon, I'll be looking at a SMP application this winter. Here are my stats:

-UC Irvine, bio major, BCPM 3.2
-MCAT
Jan 2007 Bio 11, Ver 9 Phys 9 (I was one of the lucky people with a "defective" verbal test), 29 Q
May 2007
Bio 9 Ver 11 Phys 10, 30Q
-All-Amer Div-1 athlete, part-time job all 4 yrs.
-lotsa volunteering, shadowing, and undergrad research exp
-NIH IRTA fellowship with 3 publications pending

My question is, what are my chances of getting into a SMP program, specifically Georgetown? I know my GPA frankly sucks and that the SMP program acceptances can be very competitive. I'm worried about my chances!

Any thoughts or advice would be great! thanks!

 

[Naomi119]

I am kind of in a similar situation with marie14. I need to look into SMP's now that i've been getting a few of those rejections in the mail and I just decided not to reply to the automated secondaries.

I have a 3.3 overall GPA and a 3.5 BCPM, mostly because of research units. I took the MCAT twice so far the first time I got a 22 and the second time I did even worse (20) probably because I pushed myself to take it while I was sick. I would have cancelled or rescheduled but I didn't think I was going to get ill the week of the test when it was too late to change. Now i plan on retaking the MCAT a third time in Aprill 2008.

Anyway, I noticed that some SMP's have minimum entrance requirements. I'm not to worried about my GPA to get into an SMP, but I AM worried about my MCAT status thus far. Are they really strict with the MCAT scores?

 

[drizzt3117]

First and foremost, thank you for your responses. All help is much appreciated and I know how valuable every one's time is here on this forum.

Next, forgive me for being so loose with my words in my original post. I am not simply looking to "fill the time". My intent is to use my time "productively". I definitely understand that medical school is competitive and I have no intention of taking its curriculum lightly. To the same extent, since an SMP is designed to offer med school classes, I view SMPs with the same seriousness as med school.

The pith of my question lies in whether or not, given my stats, applying to an SMP would help me get into more medical schools (I realize that I just need one school to accept me, but I am looking for the "right" one for me). I have eaten up 3 years already since my graduation and therefore I do not feel as though I can risk anymore of my time dawdling. Next spring I will be applying to a broad range of medical schools. What I am wondering is whether or not an SMP will help someone who is so "middle of the road" as I am? Remember too, I am not concerned with the tuition costs as much as I am concerned with boosting my chances of getting into a medical school of my choice (with the reality that I don't really have the stats to get into a top-tier school firmly planted in my head). Here are some of the schools I am interested in (none of my choices being in any particular order):

Thomas Jefferson
NYMC
George Washington
MC of Wisconsin
Michigan State
Oregon Health & Science Univ
Penn State
Rosalind Franklin
SUNY upstate
U of Illinois
U of Kansas
U of Miami
U of Michigan
U of Vermont
U of Toledo (I think it was MC of OH)
U of Wisconsin Madison
Albert Eistein

Dream choices:
UCD
UCI
Stanford (I want to teach)
U of Rochester
Tufts
USC

I am also considering some Osteopathics as well.

Thanks again for all your help!

This question will get more play in the pre-allo what are my chances thread. IMO, again, you should be be applying to allo (and maybe a few osteo) schools and continue to work on research, volunteering, and community service jobs during your gap year.

As far as your list goes, I would apply to the UCs, Rochester, Tufts, SC, AE, Jefferson, GW, RFU, Toledo, and pick some other mid tier private or OOS friendly schools. I wouldn't apply to UW (they are decreasing their amount of OOS interviews and OOS acceptance percentage), OHSU (not really competitive being OOS), Michigan (unless it's just for the hell of it), or Miami (3.6 OOS GPA requirement). You can apply to the other state schools if you feel like it but just be aware you might get rejected for being OOS. Your MCAT is decent but if you feel you can improve it, it would certainly help your chances.

 

[drizzt3117]

So I have applied (broadly) for Fall 2008 and have yet to get an interview. i've gotten a few rejections (and a weird phobia of small, skinny envelopes in the mail). I'm thinking if things don't start get rolling here soon, I'll be looking at a SMP application this winter. Here are my stats:

-UC Irvine, bio major, BCPM 3.2
-MCAT
Jan 2007 Bio 11, Ver 9 Phys 9 (I was one of the lucky people with a "defective" verbal test), 29 Q
May 2007
Bio 9 Ver 11 Phys 10, 30Q
-All-Amer Div-1 athlete, part-time job all 4 yrs.
-lotsa volunteering, shadowing, and undergrad research exp
-NIH IRTA fellowship with 3 publications pending

My question is, what are my chances of getting into a SMP program, specifically Georgetown? I know my GPA frankly sucks and that the SMP program acceptances can be very competitive. I'm worried about my chances!

Any thoughts or advice would be great! thanks!

What is your overall GPA? I think you have a good chance at a SMP and an outside chance at some MD programs if you applied broadly, although some people would say taking that shot is a waste of money. Schools that take the best score from each MCAT section will see your score as 3.2. SMP or postbac work may be your best option, depending on how much risk you are willing to take.

 

[drizzt3117]

I am kind of in a similar situation with marie14. I need to look into SMP's now that i've been getting a few of those rejections in the mail and I just decided not to reply to the automated secondaries.

I have a 3.3 overall GPA and a 3.5 BCPM, mostly because of research units. I took the MCAT twice so far the first time I got a 22 and the second time I did even worse (20) probably because I pushed myself to take it while I was sick. I would have cancelled or rescheduled but I didn't think I was going to get ill the week of the test when it was too late to change. Now i plan on retaking the MCAT a third time in Aprill 2008.

Anyway, I noticed that some SMP's have minimum entrance requirements. I'm not to worried about my GPA to get into an SMP, but I AM worried about my MCAT status thus far. Are they really strict with the MCAT scores?

I think its going to be tough for you to get into a SMP with those scores. Why not retake earlier (January) to give yourself a better chance to apply early for a SMP?

 

[dsfan]

guidance and opinions are greatly appreciated

I am applying to an smp program in January, I was wondering how many schools, which schools I should apply to and in general your opinion of my situation.

my situation: I have a 2.7 gpa, I took the mcat twice first time (28, 10,8,10) the second time I took it (this past june) 34 (11,9,14)

in regards to the disparity between my gpa and mcat score, I avg <2 through my first 2 years of college, this was due to issues that were beyond my control and I have been told by my prehealth/med counselors that most medical school will understand/take it into consideration.

Currently I m looking at drexel, upenn, georgetown, u cinn, indiana, loyola and dartmouth. How are the other less well known schools? Should I apply to as many as I feel capable of doing?

Lastly, I ve seen that avg gpa for these programs are at least a 3, will my mcat score and "situation" compensate for my 2.7?

 

[drizzt3117]

guidance and opinions are greatly appreciated

I am applying to an smp program in January, I was wondering how many schools, which schools I should apply to and in general your opinion of my situation.

my situation: I have a 2.7 gpa, I took the mcat twice first time (28, 10,8,10) the second time I took it (this past june) 34 (11,9,14)

in regards to the disparity between my gpa and mcat score, I avg <2 through my first 2 years of college, this was due to issues that were beyond my control and I have been told by my prehealth/med counselors that most medical school will understand/take it into consideration.

Currently I m looking at drexel, upenn, georgetown, u cinn, indiana, loyola and dartmouth. How are the other less well known schools? Should I apply to as many as I feel capable of doing?

Lastly, I ve seen that avg gpa for these programs are at least a 3, will my mcat score and "situation" compensate for my 2.7?

Are you taking classes now? The problem is that many medical schools are going to automatically screen you out because of that 2.7, without even reading your application, even with a SMP. You can apply for disadvantaged status, which may help with that, but I'm not entirely sure that's going to help that much. Raising your GPA above 3.0 if possible will make you much more competitive just because you will pass many initial screens.

You may be competitive for some of those SMPs, I'll defer to people with more knowledge on the subject though.

 

[marie14]

What is your overall GPA? I think you have a good chance at a SMP and an outside chance at some MD programs if you applied broadly, although some people would say taking that shot is a waste of money. Schools that take the best score from each MCAT section will see your score as 3.2. SMP or postbac work may be your best option, depending on how much risk you are willing to take.

My overall is just a bit higher that my BCPM, at 3.3. If I don't hear anything positive by December, I think I'm going to send in some SMP applications. I'm willing to take the risk especially since, this time around, I won't have to balance school with athletics practice and working. Any thoughts about GT's SMP program? That's my ideal spot.

 

[drizzt3117]

My overall is just a bit higher that my BCPM, at 3.3. If I don't hear anything positive by December, I think I'm going to send in some SMP applications. I'm willing to take the risk especially since, this time around, I won't have to balance school with athletics practice and working. Any thoughts about GT's SMP program? That's my ideal spot.

If you're talking about Georgetown, then you have a great shot at admission. As far as the program goes, my cousin goes there currently. She says its extremely hard but she seems to be doing well. It's expensive but if you do well in the program with your qualifications you will definitely get into a MD program, even w/o a retake. Just make sure that you're totally focused during your SMP because the coursework and load is very heavy and you are competing with medical students but are actually receiving a grade rather than pass/fail.

 

[dsfan]

Are you taking classes now? The problem is that many medical schools are going to automatically screen you out because of that 2.7, without even reading your application, even with a SMP. You can apply for disadvantaged status, which may help with that, but I'm not entirely sure that's going to help that much. Raising your GPA above 3.0 if possible will make you much more competitive just because you will pass many initial screens.

You may be competitive for some of those SMPs, I'll defer to people with more knowledge on the subject though.

yeah I m currently in my senior year, hopefully I m can get my gpa close to a 3 after this year. Any opinion on how many smp programs I should I apply to? should I also think about applying to some of the more rigorous post-bac programs?

 

[cannedhead325]

i was just wondering if i could get some help in determining what to do. i'm about to graduate from university (mcgill, but i'm american) and am as of now not qualified for med school.

i've got a 32P (10P 12V 10B), 3.2 gpa (2.7 bpcm - did really poorly in pre-med pre-reqs), and mediocre ecs.

as far as i know, these are my options:
- SMP (i dont know if id be able to find time for ecs though)
- MS (i like SUNY Buffalo's program b/c it involves cancer research, but don't know if it'd get me in -- this is my preference, all things being even)
- Special Science program (ie UPenn) -- i'd try to raise my bpcm and overall gpas

or maybe a combination of these (i was thinking UPenn and Georgetown SMP, but may be too expensive), as long as that doesn't take more than a couple of years. i guess my priority is getting in asap.

any feedback would be great!

 

[drizzt3117]

i was just wondering if i could get some help in determining what to do. i'm about to graduate from university (mcgill, but i'm american) and am as of now not qualified for med school.

i've got a 32P (10P 12V 10B), 3.2 gpa (2.7 bpcm - did really poorly in pre-med pre-reqs), and mediocre ecs.

as far as i know, these are my options:
- SMP (i dont know if id be able to find time for ecs though)
- MS (i like SUNY Buffalo's program b/c it involves cancer research, but don't know if it'd get me in -- this is my preference, all things being even)
- Special Science program (ie UPenn) -- i'd try to raise my bpcm and overall gpas

or maybe a combination of these (i was thinking UPenn and Georgetown SMP, but may be too expensive), as long as that doesn't take more than a couple of years. i guess my priority is getting in asap.

any feedback would be great!

I'd do a SMP, and try to do ECs while you're waiting to enter the SMP in fall 2008.

 

[Davnport]

This question will get more play in the pre-allo what are my chances thread. IMO, again, you should be be applying to allo (and maybe a few osteo) schools and continue to work on research, volunteering, and community service jobs during your gap year.

As far as your list goes, I would apply to the UCs, Rochester, Tufts, SC, AE, Jefferson, GW, RFU, Toledo, and pick some other mid tier private or OOS friendly schools. I wouldn't apply to UW (they are decreasing their amount of OOS interviews and OOS acceptance percentage), OHSU (not really competitive being OOS), Michigan (unless it's just for the hell of it), or Miami (3.6 OOS GPA requirement). You can apply to the other state schools if you feel like it but just be aware you might get rejected for being OOS. Your MCAT is decent but if you feel you can improve it, it would certainly help your chances.

I wanted to thank you for your response and apologize for not doing so earlier. I have been a bit busy, but that is still no excuse.

I will definitely be applying this June to a mixture of allo/osteo schools. To me, the end result of being accepted into either program will be the same, meaning I will be able to provide a patient with both medical and mental support once I graduate from either type of school.

I will, however, have to admit that I really really really like school. I miss learning on a set schedule. Not that I haven't continued to read on my own and try to grow as a person since I graduated, but there is something about the directed learning at a university that grabs me. So again I pose perhaps another somewhat overly asked question:

I want to focus the year in between application/"possible" acceptance on academia. I have been looking at one year masters programs and found Tulane's site. My primary question is, does this program count as an SMP? I mean it looks like it to me, but at this site: http://services.aamc.org/postbac/ it shows up as a traditional masters program. The reason I ask is because your response to my earlier post seemed like I should apply to med schools this next year and if I don't make it in anywhere, then I should apply to SMPs - this is because while an SMP is helpful to boosting chances, it acts as a double-edged sword in that if you don't achieve decent grades, your chances for med school might slip further away.

The reason I am unsure as to the classification of this program is because it seems to me that all the SMP programs offer classes along side or equivalent to first year medical classes. This program at Tulane doesn't seem to specify whether or not the classes are alongside medical students. It does state: "The program provides opportunities for experiential learning in programs we have established with local hospitals." and it is most definite that this program is geared towards placing the graduates into further graduate programs.

So, back on point, do you think this program classifies closely enough to an SMP program that you would suggest I avoid it until I have to? Or would it be a good area to look into for someone like me who WANTs to go back to school while waiting for a possible med school acceptance.

Thank you again for your time and energy. I really do appreciate any input given.

Davnport

 

[surftb15]

I think I am going to go the SMP route in a year.

Question though; on the application, how is the GPA calculated? If I retake a class, will they average the two, or only use the better score?

On the AMCAS Application, they average both grades together. Because of this, I am faced with significant problems.

When I was in high school, I decided to take some classes at a CC (Community College). Only I never finished these classes because finals for such classes were around prom time, and I was more focused on prom, graduation, parties, and trying to "get laid" versus taking finals at CC (Was already accepted into a 4 year). Therefore, 3 I's turned to an F, D-, and 2 C-'s.

Anyway, I went to a competitive 4 year college, was majoring in Economics, but ended up hating it. My father passed away due to a brain tumor, so I came home, and changed my goals. I already have shadowing experience, have volunteered in therapy for children whose parents have brain tumors, and have 100 hours of hospital volunteer experience. I did all of these things to make sure I would enjoy going the medical route, and I fell in love.

Now I am at U Pitt, at their honors college, and majoring in Neuroscience. I am starting doing research this summer, but am going to retake some classes from my first "college" experience as well.

I am working on retaking each class, which should be done this summer. Without these grades being calculated, my GPA is a 3.7+, science GPA around a 3.4. With these grades calculated, it is around a 2.9 or so.

So, when applying to SMP, how do they calculate the GPA? Would I be competitive? I have not taken the MCAT's yet, but have averaged around the 27 mark a few times.

Also, what would happen with those grades? If I do well in the SMP, how competitve am I for Med School?

Thanks

 

[drizzt3117]

I think I am going to go the SMP route in a year.

Question though; on the application, how is the GPA calculated? If I retake a class, will they average the two, or only use the better score?

On the AMCAS Application, they average both grades together. Because of this, I am faced with significant problems.

When I was in high school, I decided to take some classes at a CC (Community College). Only I never finished these classes because finals for such classes were around prom time, and I was more focused on prom, graduation, parties, and trying to "get laid" versus taking finals at CC (Was already accepted into a 4 year). Therefore, 3 I's turned to an F, D-, and 2 C-'s.

Anyway, I went to a competitive 4 year college, was majoring in Economics, but ended up hating it. My father passed away due to a brain tumor, so I came home, and changed my goals. I already have shadowing experience, have volunteered in therapy for children whose parents have brain tumors, and have 100 hours of hospital volunteer experience. I did all of these things to make sure I would enjoy going the medical route, and I fell in love.

Now I am at U Pitt, at their honors college, and majoring in Neuroscience. I am starting doing research this summer, but am going to retake some classes from my first "college" experience as well.

I am working on retaking each class, which should be done this summer. Without these grades being calculated, my GPA is a 3.7+, science GPA around a 3.4. With these grades calculated, it is around a 2.9 or so.

So, when applying to SMP, how do they calculate the GPA? Would I be competitive? I have not taken the MCAT's yet, but have averaged around the 27 mark a few times.

Also, what would happen with those grades? If I do well in the SMP, how competitve am I for Med School?

Thanks

If you want to go to a MD program, then you're going to have to go the SMP route and probably score > 30 on the MCAT to have a solid chance at the good programs. That said, if you score around 30 (+/- 2-3 pts) with your current stats you can get into DO programs w/o a SMP, and that would probably be my recommendation. DO schools only count the newest grade for classes that are retaken.

 

[surftb15]

If you want to go to a MD program, then you're going to have to go the SMP route and probably score > 30 on the MCAT to have a solid chance at the good programs. That said, if you score around 30 (+/- 2-3 pts) with your current stats you can get into DO programs w/o a SMP, and that would probably be my recommendation. DO schools only count the newest grade for classes that are retaken.

yes I want to go the MD route moreso then the DO route. Reason being is I believe more in the MD philosophy behind med school versus the DO philosophy.

So, would I have a good shot at SMP? Also, do some SMP's offer guaranteed acceptance into their med school?

 

[drizzt3117]

yes I want to go the MD route moreso then the DO route. Reason being is I believe more in the MD philosophy behind med school versus the DO philosophy.

So, would I have a good shot at SMP? Also, do some SMP's offer guaranteed acceptance into their med school?

You'd probably want to have >30 and >3.0 to have a shot at the more competitive SMPs. No SMPs offer guaranteed acceptance (except OSU Medpath but I believe that's only for URM, and Georgetown GEMS is like 90% in their med school but also for URM/disadvantaged) EVMS offers a lot of people that do well in their SMP acceptance in their med school but it's really hard to get into their SMP, they accept like 15 people a year.

 

[DrZeke]

HEY PEOPLE,

Just started a thread in here about the Barry University Master's program. If you want to know about it, please post your questions in there and I'll reply to all.

Good luck.

 

[Crt428]

Any comments/advice on this little dilemma I'm having would be much appreciated....

I'm currently in the process of applying to allo schools (3.4 gpa, 3.35 bcpm, 30R mcat), and have gotten little love thus far. One interview from Drexel, which went very well, but haven't heard from them yet and want to have some backup options in case that doesn't work out. I started getting paranoid and applied to 3 osteo schools, already got an interview invite for 1 of them (AZCOM).

Anyway, if Drexel/other allo schools don't work out, I'd like to have a good plan going forward. I'm pretty confident I'll get an acceptance to at least one of the osteo schools (out of AZCOM, PCOM, CCOM), and definitely buy in to their philosophy, but I do want to specialize, and most likely in one of the more competitive fields such as radiology. An MD I talked to said I'd be better off giving it one more shot next year as opposed to going DO, although he may be biased. I also realize though if I get accepted to the osteo school(s) and don't matriculate because I want to try MD's again, my chances are slim to none next year.

So given these facts, if allo schools don't work out this year (and I'm still cautiously optimistic about Drexel), would I be better off just going with one of the DO schools or trying to improve my GPA with an SMP?

 

[drizzt3117]

You can still go into allo residencies as a DO, you just need to excel on your USMLE etc...

Personally, I think 3.4/30 is not an uncompetitive set of stats for allo, if backed up with good ECs/LORs etc... so don't lose hope yet.

 

[rose786]

Does anyone know of an SMP with linkages to a dental school?

 

[godzilla0120]

I have a 3.16 undergrad GPA.
Planning to go to one of SMP programs.
my MCAT score is 25, which is way below average.
This is actually my third time taking it.
the previous two had expired.

I worked in a clinic for one year.
currently volunteering
Published my undergrad research paper.
and currently working as a lab technician

My question is do I have a shot for SMP.
Or I need to retake my MCAT????

 

[dogsnme2]

Hello, I am interested in applying to med school first thing next June. That will, however, leave me with the dreaded "1 year" waiting period in which I will be trying to fill in as productively as possible.

I graduated in 2004 from UC Berkeley with a degree in Molecular and Cellular biology. My cum GPA was 3.4, upper div GPA 3.6 (all UD classes were science/major related) my MCAT was 30Q (11PS, 9VR, 10BS). I have been working in labs since graduation, but I feel like medicine is definitely my calling. I have shadowed doctors, and I will be volunteering in various areas of medicine over the next year.

I feel like I could set up an application that will get me into at least one medical school; definitely not top tier, but I am not really concerned with the prestige of the school so much as the teacher-student interaction. My biggest question is whether or not the gap year program would be beneficial for me. I am not going to say that money is not a problem for me, but as far as education goes, I am willing to accrue debt since the end result will be a career path for which I have a passion. Since I have been out of school for 3 years, it seems like attending one of the SMPs would show schools that I have what it takes to still succeed in an academic setting - yet it almost seems like this board believes that the SMPs are better for lower GPAs (which I definitely feel like my gpa is on the low end, and if I am off in my recap of "SMP for lower grades", I apologize).

I am really interested in a one year program (I'd prefer to stay away from a 2yr plan) and Georgetown and U. Cinn seem to fit the bill. Does any one else have SMP program suggestions that they absolutely felt were fantastic indicators of Med School, that had a one year program (thesis or not), and that you would recommend others attend?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions that you all have! This is a fantastic thread that has been super helpful.

Hi,

I conduct interviews for my US MD medical school. I agree with the other poster (I forgot who) re: SMPs--if you are going to do one, you had better do well. Your stats are decent enough to get into an MD school. My stats were 3.4 from an Ivy League school, and a 30P on the MCAT. You would be fine applying next year. Just check that your MCAT scores have not expired (depending on when you took it). My best advice would be to do some research if you are interested, or perhaps get a science/healthcare-related job.

In general, if you can get an SMP that is linked to a med school, those are probably preferable to those that are not. SMPs though, are not for everyone, especially for someone with those stats.

 

[DrZeke]

Does anyone know of an SMP with linkages to a dental school?

Nova Southeastern has a pretty good link from their grad program to the dent program. Also, lots of people from Barry University end up at Nova Dentistry school...

 

[REL]

I have a 3.16 undergrad GPA.
Planning to go to one of SMP programs.
my MCAT score is 25, which is way below average.
This is actually my third time taking it.
the previous two had expired.

I worked in a clinic for one year.
currently volunteering
Published my undergrad research paper.
and currently working as a lab technician

My question is do I have a shot for SMP.
Or I need to retake my MCAT????

I post this from time-to-time, so I'll repeat here. SMP's, the ones which are pseudo Med-I programs can be dangerous -- do very well and you are a viable candidate, do average or less and you have probably hurt your chances significantly. From what little information that you posted here, I am not convinced your chances are good. You will have to do an extremely good job in an SMP and then probably come on with a stronger MCAT to increase your chances significantly. If you do an average or less job in an SMP, your chances wouldnt be much better than now. I would suggest that you undertake a 1 year full-time MS in a basic science area, do well, and then retake the MCAT and apply. If that doesnt work then do the SMP as a final gambit. While it is a longer route, you are strengthening your basic science foundation and thus increasing your candidacy.

 

[DrZeke]

I agree with REL on this one. I don't judge you based on your GPA, because mine was similar, but your MCAT score is a bit concerning considering you've taken it 3 times. And, I'm assuming you tried. Definitely take REL's advice, because an SMP could really hurt you if it goes wrong.

Good luck.

 

[dogsnme2]

Any comments/advice on this little dilemma I'm having would be much appreciated....

I'm currently in the process of applying to allo schools (3.4 gpa, 3.35 bcpm, 30R mcat), and have gotten little love thus far. One interview from Drexel, which went very well, but haven't heard from them yet and want to have some backup options in case that doesn't work out. I started getting paranoid and applied to 3 osteo schools, already got an interview invite for 1 of them (AZCOM).

Anyway, if Drexel/other allo schools don't work out, I'd like to have a good plan going forward. I'm pretty confident I'll get an acceptance to at least one of the osteo schools (out of AZCOM, PCOM, CCOM), and definitely buy in to their philosophy, but I do want to specialize, and most likely in one of the more competitive fields such as radiology. An MD I talked to said I'd be better off giving it one more shot next year as opposed to going DO, although he may be biased. I also realize though if I get accepted to the osteo school(s) and don't matriculate because I want to try MD's again, my chances are slim to none next year.

So given these facts, if allo schools don't work out this year (and I'm still cautiously optimistic about Drexel), would I be better off just going with one of the DO schools or trying to improve my GPA with an SMP?

CRT428--It depends--do you want to be a doctor, or an MD? Yes, Radiology is hard, but if you want to be a doctor, then go for whatever happens. DO=MD for the most part. Yes, it's a bit harder to get a competitive speciality if you are DO than if you are MD, but if you rock the step 1's and do really well in your classes at your DO school, then it's definitely better than if you went to an MD school and didn't do so great in your classes and the boards. Your call, though.

 

[kstreet]

So, it's nearing the end of December and the long wait with nary a peep from med schools (mostly rejections) has made me consider the benefits of an SMP program.

GPA: 3.33
BCPM: 3.22
MCAT #1 April 2006: 10V 7PS 10BS P
MCAT #2 June 2007: 14V 10PS 11BS S

Graduated 2006
Decent EC's, but done in college
Decent LOR's, likely nothing spectacular
Working full time now and waiting on current app cycle, for which I applied to somewhat late (complete by the end of Sept)

Would my app benefit from an SMP? Do the benefits outweigh the cons?

 

[drizzt3117]

So, it's nearing the end of December and the long wait with nary a peep from med schools (mostly rejections) has made me consider the benefits of an SMP program.

GPA: 3.33
BCPM: 3.22
MCAT #1 April 2006: 10V 7PS 10BS P
MCAT #2 June 2007: 14V 10PS 11BS S

Graduated 2006
Decent EC's, but done in college
Decent LOR's, likely nothing spectacular
Working full time now and waiting on current app cycle, for which I applied to somewhat late (complete by the end of Sept)

Would my app benefit from an SMP? Do the benefits outweigh the cons?

I'd wait and see how this cycle went. Have you finished all the upper division coursework? You might benefit more from informal postbac and strengthening ECs/LORs than SMP. Your GPA isn't that low and you have a strong MCAT.

 

[edrn867]

I am in my senior year and have a 3.3 GPA with 3.2 science GPA. I got a 33Q on my MCAT and I am an underrepresented minority. I didn't apply after my Junior year because I had problems to figure out and I wanted to work on my grades. I was planning on doing a service program within the US for a year. Probably something health related in which I could help out disadvantaged communities and use my knowledge of Spanish language to help.

But this semester the problems have continued and I am going to medically withdraw from the semester completely. Now I am strongly considering SMPs to strengthen my application and show that I can do well in tough science classes. Is this a good idea and will it help my application much if I still plan on applying this coming year to enter medical school Fall 2009? If so, are there any particularly competitive SMPs that will make it worthwhile (I know they are expensive). Also, any knowledge of post-bac programs for minorities? (I know Wake Forest has one). Thanks.

 

[hkloser15]

OKay, so here's the situation. I'm a senior at a state school and my gpa for both overall & bcpm is around 3.5ish but I think it is going to go down to a 3.4 after this semester. Here are my grades for the prereqs:
bio I-C
bio II-probably a C
college physics I= B
college physics II= haven't taken
chem I= B
chem II=A-
orgo I=B+
orgo II= A
orgo lab= B

I haven't taken many upper level science courses. I'm going to take biochemistry, human physio, and another upper level bio class next semester though. I transferred from basically a no name private school where I had a 4.0. When I transferred to state it went down to a 3.20 ish. Since then I've had a downward trend (remained in the 3.xx zone) which picked up for a semester but went back down last semester because of a family emergency. Due to that emergency I had to withdraw my semester. I came back this semester with the issue semi-resolved, I still had to deal with it though. The only reason I came back was because if i didn't i would lose my scholarship. So my current semester grades aren't too hot. A,B,C,W.

Okay, so the question is should I apply to a SMP program after graduation or should I stay another year? Also am I competitive enough for a SMP. I really really don't want to stay at my current school because I need a change of pace/scenery.

I also plan on applying to med school this summer. I haven't taken the MCATs but plan to in April. So do you think I can get into a MD program this upcoming cycle if I enroll in a SMP?

ps- i have solid extracurriculars.


thanks in advance!!! sorry if my post is so wordy!

 

[REL]

I am in my senior year and have a 3.3 GPA with 3.2 science GPA. I got a 33Q on my MCAT and I am an underrepresented minority. I didn't apply after my Junior year because I had problems to figure out and I wanted to work on my grades. I was planning on doing a service program within the US for a year. Probably something health related in which I could help out disadvantaged communities and use my knowledge of Spanish language to help.

But this semester the problems have continued and I am going to medically withdraw from the semester completely. Now I am strongly considering SMPs to strengthen my application and show that I can do well in tough science classes. Is this a good idea and will it help my application much if I still plan on applying this coming year to enter medical school Fall 2009? If so, are there any particularly competitive SMPs that will make it worthwhile (I know they are expensive). Also, any knowledge of post-bac programs for minorities? (I know Wake Forest has one). Thanks.

Do not do an SMP ---- yet. IMO they are end game options that you need to do very well to have a shot. I recommend a 1 year MS in a basic science area doing full-time work and doing well. Before you start anything make sure that you have resolved your problems. Also make sure you show motivation for medicine and helping others by showing a consistent history of med and comm svc volunteering, then also do some physician shadowing, demonstrate teamwork/leadership, and also some basic science lab research if possible. If you struggle in the MS, then evaluate and possibly go to a SMP. Baseline: you need to show 2-3 semesters of full-time basic science academics with great outcomes, and tend to the EC's, to get interviews at the programs you most desire.

 

[EMH]

... However, what makes a select few SMPs unique, and especially valuable, are those that require students to take classes alongside medical students. Not only does this offer medical school admissions committees a direct comparison of your abilities with already accepted medical students, it also demonstrates that (contingent upon doing well in those courses) despite having a lower GPA or longer period of time since graduating, you can stack up against medical students and give them a run for their money.

OMG, so you'd have to take some of this stuff twice? I'm not sure I could do that.

In all seriousness, good post.

 

[neural84]

Hi,

-B.S. Psychology Honors + Bio Minor
-3.43. Overall; 2.76 BCPM (horrible first 2 years; finished with a 4.0)
-5 years neuroscience research; 3 years medical assistant volunteer; 2 years nursing home volunteer
- NIH fellow; Battelle Research Fellow; Duke University summer intern program; US Department of Energy
- Awards: University Undergraduate Researcher of the Month; Undergraduate Award in Excellence (denotes place in top 1% of students in terms of academics, research, and EC's); Psych Department Leadership & Service
- Presented at 5 national conferences; published in American Journal of Medical Genetics

I took the MCAT in September and got a 19P.... I have decided to dedicate the next few months to getting ready for the April MCAT.

Would I be competitive for SMPs? I've been looking @ UMDNJ, NW Neurobiology and Physiology, Rosalind Franklin, Barry, Cincinnati, and G Town.

Do you think I should take the MCAT before April to apply to these schools?

I'm basically hoping for admittance into DO schools and lower tier allopathic programs.

 

[EMH]

Hi,

-B.S. Psychology Honors + Bio Minor
-3.43. Overall; 2.76 BCPM (horrible first 2 years; finished with a 4.0)
-5 years neuroscience research; 3 years medical assistant volunteer; 2 years nursing home volunteer
- NIH fellow; Battelle Research Fellow; Duke University summer intern program; US Department of Energy
- Awards: University Undergraduate Researcher of the Month; Undergraduate Award in Excellence (denotes place in top 1% of students in terms of academics, research, and EC's); Psych Department Leadership & Service
- Presented at 5 national conferences; published in American Journal of Medical Genetics

I took the MCAT in September and got a 19P.... I have decided to dedicate the next few months to getting ready for the April MCAT.

Would I be competitive for SMPs? I've been looking @ UMDNJ, NW Neurobiology and Physiology, Rosalind Franklin, Barry, Cincinnati, and G Town.

Do you think I should take the MCAT before April to apply to these schools?

I'm basically hoping for admittance into DO schools and lower tier allopathic programs.

I should preface by saying I know nothing about these programs except what I read here and I am just commenting on your situation in general.

I'd say that your GPA wouldn't hurt you that bad if you address it in an interview or personal statement. I was much the same situation with a just passing GPA for the first 3 years and then finished out the last 3 with almost straight A's. When you address it don't make excuses, instead use it as a background to tell the story of what you figured out that caused your marked turn around. Also, I'm curious if you studied for the MCAT the first time or took any practice tests.

 

[neural84]

Thanks for your reply, EMH

I have finished my personal statement and have addressed my poor academic performance in way that highlights my potential.

As for my first MCAT preparation, I took 1 practice test and did not put any study time into it (approximately 10 hours total...ick)

 

[EMH]

Thanks for your reply, EMH

I have finished my personal statement and have addressed my poor academic performance in way that highlights my potential.

As for my first MCAT preparation, I took 1 practice test and did not put any study time into it (approximately 10 hours total...ick)

Being that you are not a bio major I'm guessing you've had a minimal # of biology classes. Combine that with lack of preparation for the MCAT and that explains your score. The good news is that with preparation I'd bet you can raise your score 10 points.

Personally I went a bit on the heavy side for prep and spent about 30 hours a week for about 10 weeks studying or taking practice exams. I took about 10 or 12 full length practice exams and went over every one of them question by question to see why I got it wrong or why it was right. Do not take the MCAT again until you are prepared. Jump into the MCAT forum on these boards and there is plenty of threads on preparation techniques.

I'd say that the MCAT is not as much about content as it is about reasoning but you have to have a good science knowledge to reason through the stuff.

 

[neural84]

EMH,

I was actually a few more classes away from completing the bio major. As you can probably surmise, it was a bit tough for me to balance research, classes, and my clinical experiences. My premed advisor told me that the stellar aspects of my resume are what would distinguish me among the applicant pool; however, he said the MCAT and classwork are the portions that I need to bolster. I want to do one of the SMPs to prove that I can do the course work.

When I actually did review for the MCAT, I spent most of my time prepping for the verbal section.


I will definitely check out the MCAT forums. Thanks!

 

[edrn867]

Do not do an SMP ---- yet. IMO they are end game options that you need to do very well to have a shot. I recommend a 1 year MS in a basic science area doing full-time work and doing well. Before you start anything make sure that you have resolved your problems. Also make sure you show motivation for medicine and helping others by showing a consistent history of med and comm svc volunteering, then also do some physician shadowing, demonstrate teamwork/leadership, and also some basic science lab research if possible. If you struggle in the MS, then evaluate and possibly go to a SMP. Baseline: you need to show 2-3 semesters of full-time basic science academics with great outcomes, and tend to the EC's, to get interviews at the programs you most desire.

Hey REL,

Thanks for your response and your opinion. I am just a little confused because I asked Braluk on AIM about my situations and he said it seemed like a good plan to do an SMP. I definitely see your point that SMPs are a last option and should only be attempted if one knows they can perform well. But I am guessing they can also be my best bet to help me get into medical school. Other than that, how would an SMP differ from a 1 year master's program in basic sciences? What are the differences between the class difficulties and how medical schools look upon grad school work? I am looking at all options now over Christmas break since I have the time. I am just hoping I can narrow down my options quick and decide what is ultimately best for me. I welcome input from anyone. My original post is from a week ago or so. Thanks.

 

[REL]

Hey REL,

Thanks for your response and your opinion. I am just a little confused because I asked Braluk on AIM about my situations and he said it seemed like a good plan to do an SMP. I definitely see your point that SMPs are a last option and should only be attempted if one knows they can perform well. But I am guessing they can also be my best bet to help me get into medical school. Other than that, how would an SMP differ from a 1 year master's program in basic sciences? What are the differences between the class difficulties and how medical schools look upon grad school work? I am looking at all options now over Christmas break since I have the time. I am just hoping I can narrow down my options quick and decide what is ultimately best for me. I welcome input from anyone. My original post is from a week ago or so. Thanks.

The basic science MS allows you to do heavy loads of good science work and builds on your UG record which, if I recall correctly, did not show consistent enough strength to convince me that you had the foundation to really knock out an SMP. I think that you need the additional basic science work to strengthen your knowledge base. That in itself, if done with a basic science MS might be all that you need. If you still need more then you have the SMP option with a much stronger foundation increasing your chance to do much better. It also shows what you can do when your problems no longer hinder you. Please forgive me if I didnt recall your UG work correctly.

 

[djherse]

I have a question in regard to the nature of the rolling admissions policys. I have not taken the MCAT yet. I plan on taking it sometime in April/May contingent upon time constraints due to the completion of my honors thesis. Applying early is always best, so should I submit my application ASAP and then forward my MCAT scores, or are only completed applications reviewed?

 

[neural84]

Random MCAT question for the readers of this thread:

Would taking the August test (theoretically at the same time as starting an SMP or post-bac) be too late for adcoms if you wanted to enter med school the following academic year? I.e., if I take the August '08 test and complete my masters during 08-09, would I be less competitive for Fall '09 acceptance? Would you recommend taking the May test first, then only the August one if necessary?

Thanks in advance!

 

[dogsnme2]

Random MCAT question for the readers of this thread:

Would taking the August test (theoretically at the same time as starting an SMP or post-bac) be too late for adcoms if you wanted to enter med school the following academic year? I.e., if I take the August '08 test and complete my masters during 08-09, would I be less competitive for Fall '09 acceptance? Would you recommend taking the May test first, then only the August one if necessary?

Thanks in advance!

The problem with taking the MCAT in August is that your application will not be considered complete until that score arrives, even if you've completed all your other materials (i.e. application itself, recommendations, etc). On the other hand, I don't think I got any of my applications in before August, and I'm in medical school now. Another thing you should realize is that if you will be doing a Master's program during 08-09, the schools will most likely want to see how you performed during your first semester in the graduate program. When you put all of that together, it does not seem like waiting until August to take the MCAT will be all that detrimental to your application.

Hope that helps.

 

[dogsnme2]

I have a question in regard to the nature of the rolling admissions policys. I have not taken the MCAT yet. I plan on taking it sometime in April/May contingent upon time constraints due to the completion of my honors thesis. Applying early is always best, so should I submit my application ASAP and then forward my MCAT scores, or are only completed applications reviewed?

Your application will not be considered without the MCAT scores. You should do your best to complete all the other components of your application before your scores are available. That way, as soon as the schools have your scores, the sooner your application can be processed. You are right though, applying early *IS* always best. However, it is not the only thing that you need to worry about. I did not get my applications completely processed until late Aug or early Sept, and I still got into medical school. So do not worry about the timing all that much.

One other thing--if you are taking the MCAT in April/May of the year in which you plan to apply, your scores should be available by the time the AMCAS comes available in July, so this really should not affect you very much.

 

[dogsnme2]

The basic science MS allows you to do heavy loads of good science work and builds on your UG record which, if I recall correctly, did not show consistent enough strength to convince me that you had the foundation to really knock out an SMP. I think that you need the additional basic science work to strengthen your knowledge base. That in itself, if done with a basic science MS might be all that you need. If you still need more then you have the SMP option with a much stronger foundation increasing your chance to do much better. It also shows what you can do when your problems no longer hinder you. Please forgive me if I didnt recall your UG work correctly.

I agree with REL--SMPs are a double-edged sword. They can be a great boon to your application--or, they can really hurt you. Every SMP is different, but in general, if you meet their performance threshold (e.g. at DUCOM's IMS program, I think it is a B average), then you are guaranteed an interview with the university's medical school. However, if you don't make that cut-off you are inadvertently "proving" that you are not as good as their medical students, and therefore, why should they admit you? If at all possible, unless you are absolutely sure that you will do very well, I would not recommend an SMP.