The Prestigious School Vs. The Average Joe School: The Poll Edition

Started by deleted659902
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

What the title says

  • prestigious school

    Votes: 22 25.6%
  • less prestigious school

    Votes: 64 74.4%

  • Total voters
    86
D

deleted659902

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Scenario: your family member asks where he/she should go for college after receiving admission offers from a highly selective school (e.g. Ivy League, Duke, Johns Hopkins etc) and a four year state school. Where would you advise the person to go given the person intends to apply to dental school later on?
 
Go to a four year state school... It's cheaper, still well regarded and probably closer to home.

There's no need to go to a prestigious school since that is only going to tank your GPA (unless you want to work way harder than necessary). If you want to be a dentist, you should think twice before taking such a huge risk in undergrad. Go to a state school, have fun and get good grades then kill D-school.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Not all Ivy League schools are harder. Some are actually easier, it's just hard to get in. That saying. 4 year school. @DentalDoge is right. going to an Ivy league will only boost your ego, other than that. meh. 4 year school.

4year: 3 points
Iv league: 0 points
 
I'm not quite sure why you think some Ivy League schools are easier. Clearly, an average student attending an Ivy League school is smarter and harder working (note the relativity plz). So if a professor at an Ivy writes test questions at a level where an average state school student can get a B/C range, then almost every Ivy League student would be getting A's on the test, which clearly is not what's happening at those schools. This can only mean one thing: that their tests are harder. By extension, their schools are definitely harder.

I guess I've just talked to a couple friends from Ivy leagues and when comparing certain courses such as biology and organic chemistry, I felt like some of my courses went more in-depth then theirs. Talking from kids in Standford and Johns Hopkins that is.
 
I'm not quite sure why you think some Ivy League schools are easier. Clearly, an average student attending an Ivy League school is smarter and harder working (note the relativity plz). So if a professor at an Ivy writes test questions at a level where an average state school student can get a B/C range, then almost every Ivy League student would be getting A's on the test, which clearly is not what's happening at those schools. This can only mean one thing: that their tests are harder. By extension, their schools are definitely harder.

Hey I wouldnt say their smarter or harder working.Maybe they just put more work in high school and SAT, while some people decided a 4-year is still good enough and laid back during high school.That does not make someone smarter. I would think the "smarter" person would not go to ivy league school for undergrad. Also that B/C range is highly subjective to an individual, anyone can put time,work, and effort in a class even if its ivy league school or a state school. Also most people, including me, do not realize how self efficient they are or how smart they are until they attend college. A person who attends ivy league probably knew since their freshmen year and probably had some help from their upbringing, while some people do not have that luxury nor have that drive in high school.
Short story, it doesn't make you smarter if you attend ivy league school during undergrad. There are plenty of smart people, even smarter than those who attend ivy league schools, that attend a 4-year state school.
To OP, if its to satisfy your ego go ahead, but keep in mind you also then have to put more time in grad school. The "smarter person" would pick attending a state school because cost is cheap,near family, you learn the same information through lecture and textbooks, and you aren't freaking about minutiae details of ivy league professors. Then you can freak out during grad school, than both undergrad and grad school.
 
(true story)

had a brilliant and cocky friend from high school, went to a very good ivy league undergrad...ended up with <3.0 gpa. was pre-med. applied to med school one cycle..didn't get in. worked as an emt the year after and applied to medical school and got into 1 D.O. school off of a WAITLIST only because he got a 38 on his mcat. he definitely spent 200k at least for that degree btw.

had another friend who went to a state school, graduated with a 3.9 but only had a 29 on his mcat. ended up getting into 4 medical schools right out of college (3 MD, 1 DO). this friend also commuted so his total undergrad schools costs couldn't have been more than 60k.

moral of the story: it doesn't matter where you go. just do well wherever you go, and save as much $$ as you can.
 
I'm not quite sure why you think some Ivy League schools are easier. Clearly, an average student attending an Ivy League school is smarter and harder working (note the relativity plz). So if a professor at an Ivy writes test questions at a level where an average state school student can get a B/C range, then almost every Ivy League student would be getting A's on the test, which clearly is not what's happening at those schools. This can only mean one thing: that their tests are harder. By extension, their schools are definitely harder.

Grade Inflation....and it is very common knowledge that A's are handed out like candy at the Ivys....

Not to mention, many, many, many well qualified Ivy candidates either do not get into an Ivy because of a roll of the dice and are taking those same classes at other colleges, or they just don't apply because they don't want to go there. I know many students that have turned down Ivy acceptances for full rides at state schools. It's not as cut and dried as you want to make it. Keep in mind that the Bio 100 students at Harvard are taking the same course material as the Bio 100 students at Huge U. There are Bio majors in those courses but also a lot of non-science students taking that class for a graduation requirement so the average student in that class is still just average.
 
If I were afforded an opportunity for Ivy I would probably do it, but only Ivy, not just a good private school. John's Hopkins being the exception, maybe Penn too. But get ready for a bunch of over privledged kids at some of them. What it boils down to is where you'll get the highest quality education, this must defined by one's own self. Personally I like small classes and one on one ability. Most of these schools aren't always harder, and actually inflate their grades (according to stuff I've read), can not testify if this is true though. On the other hand, many state schools have very very hard undergraduate grading scales for premed type programs to weed out some people.
 
I was bummed when I didn't get into the Ivy's for undergrad and ended up going to my "safety school" instead, which was a small private school. I can't tell you the pay off it has had! Small class size allowed me to stand out to my professors, take multiple classes with them, and form relationships that transitioned into great LOR. So many resources were right at my fingertips including great research opportunities. Ultimately being able to kick ass in undergrad (while also having fun) turned into a successful application cycle for me. Just my perspective.. although it has to be hard to turn down those prestigious schools.
 
It's not even a matter of that. Try to be as unbiased as possible and just think about it. Going to a more prestigious school will probably be tougher...consider who you're competing against.

If this was for any other field id say go for it. But with dentistry or even medicine...a bachelors is just a means to an end. if you're smart enough to get into an ivy/prestigious school, with proper motivation you can succeed at any less prestigious school.
 
Last edited:
I was bummed when I didn't get into the Ivy's for undergrad and ended up going to my "safety school" instead, which was a small private school. I can't tell you the pay off it has had! Small class size allowed me to stand out to my professors, take multiple classes with them, and form relationships that transitioned into great LOR. So many resources were right at my fingertips including great research opportunities. Ultimately being able to kick ass in undergrad (while also having fun) turned into a successful application cycle for me. Just my perspective.. although it has to be hard to turn down those prestigious schools.


Just like Pinklax, I had a very similar situation for myself. I wound up at my safety school and had small class sizes and very intimate relationships with my professors, which helped me learn better as well as helped me with getting LOR's as well. I wouldn't change my route I took, but everyone has a personalized taste of what is best.
 
The poll currently stands at ~24% for prestigious schools vs ~76% for less prestigious schools....

Considering only about 20% of applicants to these highly selective schools get accepted (at the most), it may just be that people who either went there or are currently a student there are voting for the prestigious schools while all the other folks who went to a state school are voting for the other.

Were you hoping for a different result?

My friend went to an Ivy league school and loved it. Even though it didn't add too much to his med school application, he enjoyed his time there and the friendships he made.

I personally have known plenty of people who went to state-schools and prestigious schools who then went directly into medical or dental school. I also know alot of people who went to state schools and prestigious schools who DIDN'T make it into medical or dental school. This is a pool of around 50 or so friends and acquaintances.

Your original question was, "Where would you advise the person to go given the person intends to apply to dental school later on?" And answer is that it doesn't matter where you go, as long as it's a 4-year institute. The admission cycle is a level playing field, where a student from a university in bum**** nowhere has the same opportunities as a student from Harvard.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Were you hoping for a different result?

My friend went to an Ivy league school and loved it. Even though it didn't add too much to his med school application, he enjoyed his time there and the friendships he made.

I personally have known plenty of people who went to state-schools and prestigious schools who then went directly into medical or dental school. I also know alot of people who went to state schools and prestigious schools who DIDN'T make it into medical or dental school. This is a pool of around 50 or so friends and acquaintances.

Your original question was, "Where would you advise the person to go given the person intends to apply to dental school later on?" And answer is that it doesn't matter where you go, as long as it's a 4-year institute. The admission cycle is a level playing field, where a student from a university in bum**** nowhere has the same opportunities as a student from Harvard.
This. As long as the school is accredited, it doesn't matter to dental schools. You should go where you will perform the best and enjoy your time the most. If you thrive in an ultra competitive atmosphere, go to an ultra competitive school and vice versa.
 
Dental school and undergrad are separate entities. In my opinion, it's good to leave home and' experience' college. Some of those highly ranked schools have great faculty and resources. They'll also have classmates who will motivate you (i.e you won't necessarily be the smartest in the class, which can be a good learning experience). Sure, you'll find kids who went ivy and became bums. But it appears you know what you want and what it'll take. If going to a great college won't leave you with significant debt, go. *College is more that just slogging through pre-reqs.
 
Last edited:
I'd say go to whichever college will best prepare you for your future career.

If you plan on going to professional school (med, dent, opto, etc.), don't bother going to an Ivy. It'll only put you in more debt.

If you plan on doing something like engineering, computer programming, etc. and an Ivy or other prestigious school (e.g. Stanford, MIT) accepts you, then go there.

The problem comes when you're not sure what you want to do. At that point I'd say go to a state college and knock it out of the park. You'd get the name recognition of a bigger school, affordable(ish) prices and the competition won't be insane.
 
Go to cheapest school, good education, and where u are able to do well. 99% of Patients don't care where u graduate from.
 
I would recommend OP attend the cheaper state program.

A bit about my educational background: I attended Stanford out of high school on a military scholarship. Although there were a lot of classes where grade inflation was rampant, most bottle-neck classes for large majors were pretty competitive (~top 15% get A's, next 20% get A-'s), particularly pre-med/dental classes (although I never met a single pre-dental student in my class at college). It may seem to some that a class where more than a third of the students get some form of an A is not that tough, but when the class is filled with really smart, driven people, you have to work hard for that A-. Anyway, I felt like I worked pretty hard but graduated with a 3.7 average. I had a good number of friends that had been valedictorians with 1500+ SAT scores drop out of the pre-med curriculum because they kept getting B's in the pre-reqs. Paradoxically, the algebra-based physics had a reputation for being more difficult than the calculus-based physics because the former was flooded with pre-meds while the latter was filled with less GPA-conscious engineers.

After about five years in the military, I decided to go to dental school. To fulfill the prereqs I had not completed in college, I did an informal post-bacc at Oregon State. OSU was a great experience for me and very different from Stanford. It was much easier; I didn't really feel like I had to work to get an A so I just focused on learning as much as I could. The professors were really great and committed to student learning. That is not to say that Stanford's professors were bad, I just didn't find them to be any better at teaching at an undergraduate level than the OSU professors. Just because a professor has written a bunch of highly cited articles on a highly specialized niche in their field does not mean they possess great teaching abilities. Some do, and some don't.

This also made getting strong letters of recommendation easier. I stood out a lot more from my peers at OSU than at Stanford. And they don't teach some sort of secret biochem at Stanford that public schools don't have access to, it's all the same material. However, you should realize that barely getting an A at a state school does not mean you have a sufficient understanding of the material. Learn as much as you can, not just what is required for an A.

The one thing I really think was valuable about my college experience was the people I met. My friends from college are some of the most intelligent, successful, and driven people I have ever met. However, I don't think rubbing shoulders with the soon to be rich and famous is worth $200K in debt. I was on a military scholarship so I didn't really care, but I would have chosen differently if I were paying.

In the end, I got a 4.0 in the pre-reqs, got into my first choice school (Harvard), and am really glad I did my pre-reqs at a state school and not a top-tier private school. I recently talked to a fellow non-trad in the medical class who graduated from Yale and then later went to a state school for pre-reqs about our experiences. We both couldn't believe how easy it was to get A's after leaving the hyper-competitive environments where we went to college.

In sum, state schools can give you an excellent education in a less competitive environment. The professors are highly qualified because getting tenure anywhere is very difficult. Any tenured or tenure-track professor will be more than competent in their field (although as an educator, that is hit or miss...). Many state colleges offer honors programs that allow you to be surrounded by similarly driven students in order to provide the sort of intellectual environment normally found in more selective private schools.
 
"We both couldn't believe how easy it was to get A's after leaving the hyper-competitive environments where we went to college."....


I would argue that your "ease" of getting an A had more to do with maturity vs the school.....
 
I would recommend OP attend the cheaper state program.

A bit about my educational background: I attended Stanford out of high school on a military scholarship. Although there were a lot of classes where grade inflation was rampant, most bottle-neck classes for large majors were pretty competitive (~top 15% get A's, next 20% get A-'s), particularly pre-med/dental classes (although I never met a single pre-dental student in my class at college). It may seem to some that a class where more than a third of the students get some form of an A is not that tough, but when the class is filled with really smart, driven people, you have to work hard for that A-. Anyway, I felt like I worked pretty hard but graduated with a 3.7 average. I had a good number of friends that had been valedictorians with 1500+ SAT scores drop out of the pre-med curriculum because they kept getting B's in the pre-reqs. Paradoxically, the algebra-based physics had a reputation for being more difficult than the calculus-based physics because the former was flooded with pre-meds while the latter was filled with less GPA-conscious engineers.

After about five years in the military, I decided to go to dental school. To fulfill the prereqs I had not completed in college, I did an informal post-bacc at Oregon State. OSU was a great experience for me and very different from Stanford. It was much easier; I didn't really feel like I had to work to get an A so I just focused on learning as much as I could. The professors were really great and committed to student learning. That is not to say that Stanford's professors were bad, I just didn't find them to be any better at teaching at an undergraduate level than the OSU professors. Just because a professor has written a bunch of highly cited articles on a highly specialized niche in their field does not mean they possess great teaching abilities. Some do, and some don't.

This also made getting strong letters of recommendation easier. I stood out a lot more from my peers at OSU than at Stanford. And they don't teach some sort of secret biochem at Stanford that public schools don't have access to, it's all the same material. However, you should realize that barely getting an A at a state school does not mean you have a sufficient understanding of the material. Learn as much as you can, not just what is required for an A.

The one thing I really think was valuable about my college experience was the people I met. My friends from college are some of the most intelligent, successful, and driven people I have ever met. However, I don't think rubbing shoulders with the soon to be rich and famous is worth $200K in debt. I was on a military scholarship so I didn't really care, but I would have chosen differently if I were paying.

In the end, I got a 4.0 in the pre-reqs, got into my first choice school (Harvard), and am really glad I did my pre-reqs at a state school and not a top-tier private school. I recently talked to a fellow non-trad in the medical class who graduated from Yale and then later went to a state school for pre-reqs about our experiences. We both couldn't believe how easy it was to get A's after leaving the hyper-competitive environments where we went to college.

In sum, state schools can give you an excellent education in a less competitive environment. The professors are highly qualified because getting tenure anywhere is very difficult. Any tenured or tenure-track professor will be more than competent in their field (although as an educator, that is hit or miss...). Many state colleges offer honors programs that allow you to be surrounded by similarly driven students in order to provide the sort of intellectual environment normally found in more selective private schools.

Just curious, what made you pursue Harvard if that was your opinion of undergrad?
 
State schools are usually less expensive. Try and get scholarships ect but do realize that not only is that interest collecting during undergrad, its collecting in grad school too and when you finally begin payments.
 
The only thing that matters the most is where you got your last degree and even that is a far-fetched statement cause some people say they don't care where their dentist went for dental school.
I'd go with the cheaper alternative.
 
To some, cost is not an issue as these highly selective schools are extremely well-endowed and can afford to award generous financial aid packages to those from less than well-off background.
 
I gave up and Ivy for my state school. I got a scholarship for my state school sdn knew I was going to go to either dental school or medical so I wanted to save as much money for undergrad as possible.