The *REAL* Advantage to being a D.O. (True Story!)

[SawBones]

Recently, something hilarious happened on rotations that really opened my eyes to the TRUE advantage of being a D.O. (and I assure you it has nothing to do with "holism" or "OMM" stuff).

I was on the nephrology service and one night while on rounds with my attending (a D.O.) his pager goes off. Some other doc had consulted him on a case. This kind of sucked for me, being that it was about 9pm and I was more than ready to call it a day. Nevertheless, we needed to go see this new patient with new onset renal failure.

So we head to the patient's room and notice that the patient is uninsured. This is always a bummer for any physician! But, we had to see them anyway because someone had to take care of her kidney's, and it fell on us to do so.

So we head in to see the patient and once we enter the room she starts spitting at my attending and cursing. It turns out that she is borderline schizophrenic. I thought "Grrrrrrreat... I get to see her and get spit on each morning for the next week."

My attending introduces himself and starts inquiring about the patient's medical history. During the whole interview, she is being incredibly nasty -- spitting, cursing, and so forth. And here we are doing all of this for free! Finally, the following dialogue transpires between my attending and the patient:

Attending: "I see Dr. Jones is your primary care physician? Is that correct?"

Patient: *SPIT* "Not any more! He's a D.O.!! D.O.'s are DOGS!!! I will never use another D.O.!!"

(At this point, I start doing "The Happy Dance" behind my attending because I know what will happen next)

Attending: "Very well. In that case, you will need TWO new doctors, as I am a D.O. myself. Frankly, you have been insulting, rude, and downright disgusting. And now that you have verbally refused my care, I am going to leave you now. Good night."

So we both exit the room, and now we are both doing "The Happy Dance." My attending opens her chart and scribes a small note,

"Patient referred to me as 'a dog' and verbally refused to be seen by a D.O. Will need to transfer care to an M.D. nephrologist."

This is the first patient I have ever had that had negative feelings about D.O.s. However, according to similar experiences by my peers, it seems that the vast majority of such patients are unpleasant, uneducated, and uninsured... basically, they are not the kind of patient that anyone is going to complain about losing.

Personally, I think this is totally sweet! So when I'm in practice as a D.O. and I get consulted on an uninsured patient, I'm going to introduce myself as:

"Hi, I'm an osteopath. I didn't go to a 'college of medicine' -- is that going to be a problem for you? Or would you rather have an M.D.?" Hopefully at this point they are frightened out of their minds and thinking that I am a chiropractor or something. Then I will be free to move on to more important things... like actually getting paid for my services.

Heh heh! This just goes to show you that there is an upside to everything.... even ignorant prejudice.

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[H0mersimps0n]

In a hospital setting like that physicians don't literally get paid by each patient right?

Doesn't the hospital pay them salary?

So when you treate a non-paying patient the hospital loses out but you still get paid right?

that doesn't sound right...

this is of no concern to me however it is a curiosity...

 

[MrGreed]

Office visit: $210.00

Renal Consult: $535.00

Weekly Dialysis: $487.00

Refusing to care for a patient because you're a D.O.: priceless

There are some things a M.D. degree can't buy...for everything else visit your D.O.

 

[ckent]

Keep dumping all of your uninsured pts or pts who you consider "uneducated". It's pretty clear why you went to "medical" school. If most DO students are like you, those pt's will continue to receive better care, or the care that they deserve with an MD.

 

[deleted4401]

No way! That's kind of funny ...

Lucky you ... To the haters, there is enough underinsured people for all of us to take care of, and Sawbones is probably willing to take care of most of them. They don't deserve to be underinsured.

But no one deserves to be yelled at and spit on for doing their jobs. I would've tried for a few minutes, and probably walked away, too. Sick or not, there is a common decency when communicating with people. That patient definitely didn't know about it.

Simul

 

[rpames]

ckent,
Get over yourself!

 

[tkim]

Originally posted by SawBones
it turns out that she is borderline schizophrenic.

Perhaps this is the cause of her reaction?

I'm not sure that it's okay to use the confusion that stems from a psychiatric disorder to turf someone to another service or physician. Unless it was a psych consult.

- Tae

 

[DocWagner]

Welcome to medicine...next you may be spit on because you are male or female, tall or short, black or white or hispanic or Asian or Indian or a Hoosier, left handed or right handed, parting your hair on the left or right...or just because the patient is an absolute lunatic and the voices in her head told her you were the devil.

Just document your experience and go onto the next patient...because the next one may willingly wish to show you their testicles or breasts or prosthetic limb for absolutely no reason other than those stated above.

MEDICINE IS FUN and that is the bottom line!

 

[SawBones]

Homer, unless a physician is a hospitalist hired by a hospital then a physician is paid per hospitalized patient in the hospital by their respective insurance carrier. Basically, if you were my patient and I admitted you to the hospital then I would get your insurance information from your chart and bill them directly.

The problem, in my community, lies in that 60% of the patients being admitted to our hospital from our ER are uninsured. I don't know any physician that refuses to treat uninsured patients in need -- in fact, every physician I know does so daily. However, the large number of uninsured patients is putting a real stress on physicians, especially new ones. I, for example, will be entering practice in three years with a family to support, $200,000 in loans to pay off, and office overhead. I can't make ends meet if only 40% of my patients pay. If this makes me a no-good, greedy little b*stard, then so be it. Idealism is a beautiful thing, but it doesn't keep your electricity on or your family fed.

This brings up another point... I do not resent how much reimbursements are down and how I will never make the money that physicians made 10 to 15 years ago. Clearly, anyone that enters medicine with the expectation of making big money is an idiot and didn't do their homework. But what I do resent is how much people perceive that I make. I already get these attitudes as a medical student who makes nothing. Patients are already saying to me, "You are a rich doctor, how nice that must be." Ummm... no, nor will I ever be a "rich doctor." So as long as the public perceives that doctors are rolling in dough, then nobody will ever see matters like 60% of patients not paying (and only half of the remaining 40% actually paying their co-payments) as a serious problem. Furthermore, when we try to offer up solutions to these problems, the public perceives us "rich doctors" as being greedy. And we aren't being anything of the sort. We aren't trying to abuse the system or even milk the system, we just want to be paid for our work!

Tkim, we didn't turf anyone. We treated dozens of non-paying patients that month and they received as good care as our paying patients. This patient refused to be treated by a D.O. because "we are dogs." Schizophrenic patients are still considered competent individuals capable of making their own decisions until proven otherwise. This patient's refusal was completely within her rights to do so. If we continued to treat her despite her wishes, we would have been guilty of battery.

DocWagner, your comment is right on the money.

Ckent, you have the reading comprehension ability of mayonnaise. Please review the chapter on Sarcasm in Henderson's Literature and Ourselves: A Thematic Introduction for Readers and Writers (4th Edition) before our next meeting so that you can be caught up to the rest of the group. That's a good boy.

 

[H0mersimps0n]

Well put saw...

I've had people in the back of my ambulance make an "exception" to let me treat them because I was "some Italian boy" or "too young"...

thats a very low percentage but I've definitely been there.

screw riches, I just want to by a physician, roof over my head and a pot to piss in... lousy HMO's

 

[group_theory]

Life has a way of getting sweet revenge

Either during your clinical rotation or residency (if you get accepted into medical school and graduate)

one of these days - mother nature will throw a DO as your attending. Then your statement "sometimes get frightened out of my mind like that just seeing "D.O." on the white coat coming at me" will ring in your head.

Should you whip out your MCAT score and GPA and speak real slowly to your attending OR pretend that the DO doesn't bother you?

If it is during your clinical rotation, then it's one month of hell for you. If it is during your residency - then it will be HELL

Be careful - life always find a way to get sweet revenge

 

[metsn02]

Originally posted by group_theory
Life has a way of getting sweet revenge

Either during your clinical rotation or residency (if you get accepted into medical school and graduate)

one of these days - mother nature will throw a DO as your attending. Then your statement "sometimes get frightened out of my mind like that just seeing "D.O." on the white coat coming at me" will ring in your head.

Should you whip out your MCAT score and GPA and speak real slowly to your attending OR pretend that the DO doesn't bother you?

If it is during your clinical rotation, then it's one month of hell for you. If it is during your residency - then it will be HELL

Be careful - life always find a way to get sweet revenge

Group theory,
Pay no attention to this clown mdjd. He's the type of person that talks tough behind his cpu, but in real life he is a pathetic coward. Dude aren't you like in your mid 30s? And why if you are this old, do you continue to act like an immature high schooler trolling the osteo forums with your non-helpful nonsense? I guess I just don't get why a person would spend their free time doing this. Carry on clown

 

[group_theory]

Hehe

Most of the time, I don't respond to anti-DO bashing in this forum.

The ones that I do respond to, I calmly respond using clear and rational thought in a respectful manner.

When other people read our responses and see

antiDO guy: Man, DO is a waste of time. The guys have smaller members and the girls are unattractive.

ME: why do you hate DO? From what I've seen -- blah blah rational argument and being respectful to everyone, even the bashers blah blah blah

antiDO guy: Well, I know you are but what am I?


When people read this and see a DO student respond with manner, thought, rational, etc. and see the "MD superior DO bashing" student act immature - it shows them that the bashers are immature.

But I posted this time to point out that life has a way of getting justice. I'm sure mdjd will one day become a fine doctor and have respect for DOs. But the universe has a way of teaching him a lesson - whether it be by making his attending a DO, or having his life saved by a DO - the universe has a knack of getting sweet revenge.

Anyway, if mdjd is in his 30s - then his actions are indeed immature and not warrant for any medical/health profession.
Using the bait defense doesn't cut it either. It reminds me of the pedophile that goes "I didn't molest her. She seduced me." I assume you have enough self-control and manners to conduct yourself properly, whether in person or online.

metsn02, if you were referring to me, I'm in my early 20s, still finishing up my last year of undergrad. I hope that to you and others, my responses do not seem immature.

To everyone reading this post, especially SawBones - I apologize for going on a tangent and not staying on topic.


Group_theory (the point group of the day is C-infinity, like carbon monoxide)
_________________________________________-
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine
"My DO friends can beat up your MD friends"

 

[metsn02]

Originally posted by group_theory
metsn02, if you were referring to me, I'm in my early 20s, still finishing up my last year of undergrad. I hope that to you and others, my responses do not seem immature.

Sorry group theory, my post was not directed at you but instead to this clown mdjd. I'm also in my early 20s and am a first year med student, but I find it hilarious that somebody 10+ years my senior resorts to such weak tactics. I somehow always thought that with age comes wisdom and experience. Somehow this guy disproves this theory.

 

[Claymore]

MDJD:

I don't want to join this fight against you, but I am curious as to why you maintain such negative thoughts about osteopathic medicine. Have you had a bad experience with a D.O. in the past? Have you had any experience with a D.O. at all? Or are you basing your criticism on personal speculation? Perhaps if you have a specific concern, we may be able to educate you with the truth.

 

[jhug]

And hellbent on ensuring that these young ones don't make the same mistake you made

someone needs to get away from the computer and find some productive things to do--study, learn how to knit, take yoga...but please have a more noble goal in life than trying to save poor, mindless pre-meds!

i wonder why some just can't laugh and be laid back on these posts. I was laughing so hard until this stupid string of do vs md --can't just relax and be adults-- comments pop up.

group theory-- that is soooo true!!
sawbones-- i feel the EXACT same way...and i love the mayo comment

docwagner-- that is the underlying theme of what i am saying-- medicine is fun, it has to be or we will all end up schizophrenic and spitting on each other---look it is happening to some of us already!!!

 

[bigtony]

Sawbones your posting is extremely funny.
Thats a great example of overcomming adversity.

 

[metsn02]

Originally posted by mdjd
It's probably closer to 7-8 years, but wise enough not to fall for that osteopathy crap the first time around. And hellbent on ensuring that these young ones don't make the same mistake you made.

Here's what I don't understand about you. Why are you suddenly such a philanthrapist after all these years. I mean what are these magic truths that you somehow hold about the health care profession that would enlighten the "young ones". A quick look at your posts on this website reveals nothing but interest in bashing osteopaths and inquiring about which specialties have the best lifestyles and pay. So really why are you doing this?

I have my own psychological assumptions about why more than half of your posts are geared solely at bashing a profession you know nothing about....

Here goes..You made a horrible mistake 10 years ago for which you are paying the price at this very moment. Instead of practicing medicine, you are now in law school as a mid 30 year old. Let's do the math. 4 years med school + 3-4 years residency. That would put you around 8 years post acceptance. Man, you could be in your own practice right now making mad bank ($150,000 - $250,000 easy) and actually helping people to live healthier and better lives. Instead, you have been reduced to attending law school as a student in your 30s, no doubt paying around $20,000-30,000 for a degree you probably don't even want (see applying to med school now).

Enjoy the bitterness and the memories of missed opportunities. How pathetic and sad it is to see a supposed adult be reduced to such a state as to put down others so he can escape his own pain. WEAK

 

[H0mersimps0n]

Does something seem wrong when the people ruining lives (bottom-feeding lawyers) earn more than the people saving lives (DO's and MD's alike)...?*

*I realize not all lawyers are bottom feeding, but it would seem as though we have a grubby little worm amongst us...

It's all a joke till your life lands in the hands of a DO. I think thats pretty likely being a west-coaster.

Time to oust another useless troll...

 

[kpax18]

Originally posted by mdjd
It's probably closer to 7-8 years, but wise enough not to fall for that osteopathy crap the first time around. And hellbent on ensuring that these young ones don't make the same mistake you made.
Have fun at PCOM!

Man, mid-life crisis already ?!

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

Originally posted by mdjd
Ohh... soooo close. Freshly minted graduates of top 10 law schools start at 125K-135K in the Bay Area during their first year. Significant bumps are given for advanced degrees in science. By the seventh year that base salary amount is around 215K-230K. Did I mention bonuses? And then partnership kicks in. There's where you'll find your "mad bank." The average income for a primary care physician in this area, even after several years of practice, is approx. 135K. And let's knock that down a bit for the undesirables -- aka DO's. And that income doesn't rise at a rate that's even close to comparable to Biglaw. Is it even keeping up with inflation? Medicine is definitely not where the money is.

Keep guessing... (hint -- think of DO's as being third rate; that should get you on the right track).

So MDJD's true colors finally come out. He has no interest in being a practicing physician. He only wants to take up the spot of someone who truly deserves it so that he can make a stab at thickening his wallet a bit more.

Well, I personally hope you flunk out of law school and that the only med school you ever have a chance of getting into is UHSA in Antigua and end up a poor bitter old man, heavily in debt! The world could use one fewer lawyer and lets hope that 1 is you, MDJD.