The " Show No Weakness" culture of Medical school.

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Reading posts like this make me so happy I got into the school I did. They practically force academic support on everyone, and we're (mostly) all open about sharing our experiences, good and bad. There are some over-achievers and some under-achievers, like anywhere else, but the environment is a supportive one. It makes me sad to know that there are still schools like the one the OP attends which don't support their students adequately.

Then again, I feel like I'm so used to coming to a respectfully mutual understanding with people in positions of power (like normal people behave) that third/fourth year or residency might be a bit of a culture shock.
 
I used a tutor during first year for one of the classes that for whatever reason I was having a harder time with than others.

Second year I was a tutor myself; fourth year I was an anatomy TA.

It's not a scarlet letter.



Snoopy2006 said:
As an aside, there is a "Show No Weakness" mentality in medicine, but you usually see that more once you enter your clinical years. That's what I assumed this thread was going to be about when I saw the title. The culture of hiding sleep deprivation, personal misery, exhaustion - setting aside your own personal issues and completely devoting yourself to residency/practice. It's slowly phasing out and improving, but that culture of machismo is still present at many institutions.

It is not about avoiding tutors during your M1 year because you're afraid of being the dumb kid.
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Exactly. This was what I assumed the thread was going to be about as well.
 
southernIM said:
Exactly. This was what I assumed the thread was going to be about as well.
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Yeah, I should know better than to expect EMDO2018, to have a complaint of actual significance. I thought the "show no weakness culture of medical school" was going to be about the so-called "hidden curriculum" of medical school.
 
Like 3/4 of my class went to a tutor for anatomy by the last exam (head & neck). It was absolutely not a "scarlet letter". If anything, the kids who went to the tutor earliest ended up doing the best, because they figured out how and what to study for exams. I'm relatively certain the our future valedictorian was one of first people going to tutors in first year anatomy.

kirbymiester said:
I once sat near to a classmate I had never met at a Starbucks, around midnight before our class final. He was jokingly talking about how he was going to fail, and lightheardedly mentioned dropping out.

I never saw him again. The memory feels like a memory of a dead man.
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This is honestly upsetting, but I had 2 experiences like this. We also have at least a few people repeating MS1. It sucks, but I feel better for them than I do the people that just disappeared.

ortnakas said:
This is fair, but as a MS-1 looking at remediating anatomy, I think it's multi-factorial for a lot of people. For example, it's hard to prepare when you're coping with anxiety, but it's hard to cope with anxiety when you're preparing. I'm absolutely not trying to say my situation isn't my responsibility, just that it's not always easy to pinpoint a reason, especially when you're the one in the situation.
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This is true. In terms of being in your situation right now, if you can avoid what you mentioned, do it. Get extra help, study as much as you can, and get through this last exam. You're life is immensely better (not necessarily easier, but at least its more straightforward) after anatomy.
 
samuelp said:
the trick is, to not let anyone know you got help.
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Failing to get help (when needed) is a bigger sign of weakness or stupidity.

If anyone talks trash..... so what?! It's better to have one's MD on time and a few people talking trash than getting booted or repeating a semester. Perhaps someone unwilling to take help, or constantly worried about junior high nonsense isn't really that smart.

One of the benefits of attending a US school is access to resources. Why be immature and let ego get in the way of succeeding as a doctor?
 
I'm pretty open with my friends at school and most people in my class, perhaps a little too much, but I tend to tell it like it is. 😛 No issues or judgment here, if I mention feeling overwhelmed with a class or some other struggles, my classmate's are usually supportive or admits they're feeling the same way. I've seeked help and advice and given it too and it's worked out very well.

Of course I monitor what I say and to whom, that's basic social and professional etiquette, but I don't see any hostility to weakness. There's always a small handful of judgmental folks in a med school class, just avoid them. Most of the people in a med school class are human beings too and they're open to helping each other out. Just my personal experience from pre-clinical years so far. May vary once I'm on the floors and dealing with all kinds of people, but I've just concluded there's dinguses and nice people everywhere.
 
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I don't think intelligence has much to do with it. If you can do well on MCATs and have a great GPA and make it into med school then in a complete sterile/controlled enviornment I think the pass rate would be 100%

Problem is life isn't in a sterile environment..Sooo

-Poor preperation: had too much fun instead of studying, drank before the test, drunk DURING the test
-Relationships: establishing new ones, ending old ones, trying to find a new one.. Why would medicine be different than the rest of society?
-Depression: having no motivation, having no support system,"SIG E CAPS", suicide attempts, hospitalizations, successful suicides (See NYC schools this summer).
-Tragedy: Family/friends dying, people getting cancer/terminal disease, personal illness
 
styphon said:
I don't think intelligence has much to do with it. If you can do well on MCATs and have a great GPA and make it into med school then in a complete sterile/controlled enviornment I think the pass rate would be 100%

Problem is life isn't in a sterile environment..Sooo

-Poor preperation: had too much fun instead of studying, drank before the test, drunk DURING the test
-Relationships: establishing new ones, ending old ones, trying to find a new one.. Why would medicine be different than the rest of society?
-Depression: having no motivation, having no support system,"SIG E CAPS", suicide attempts, hospitalizations, successful suicides (See NYC schools this summer).
-Tragedy: Family/friends dying, people getting cancer/terminal disease, personal illness
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Those suicides happened after medical school was completed - during residency.
 
circulus vitios said:
This is more general than weakness in testing, but:

Administration: We're concerned about students' well-being.
*Constantly ***** with the curriculum and creates unnecessary stress with bull**** meetings that have mandatory attendance.*
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LOL I love this btw.
For us it's like

Adminstration: We are concerned about students' well-being
Sends out sassy emails for students who don't do well on exams. Seriously, IDGAF if you think my score is "marginal" it's a 13 percentage point increase from my previous, and it's passing. Suck it.
 
touchpause13 said:
LOL I love this btw.
For us it's like

Adminstration: We are concerned about students' well-being
Sends out sassy emails for students who don't do well on exams. Seriously, IDGAF if you think my score is "marginal" it's a 13 percentage point increase from my previous, and it's passing. Suck it.
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It's more bc medical students are WELL KNOWN not to go for help until it's too late. They let it fester and think they can handle it on their own when they can't.
 
DermViser said:
It's more bc medical students are WELL KNOWN not to go for help until it's too late. They let it fester and think they can handle it on their own when they can't.
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They can look up what I've done.

I have a tutor. I've gone student services, I've gone to my advisor, I've gone to the professor. I'm doing everything that I can, I end up significantly improving, and they still have to shet on me. F that man. Literally the only thing that is accomplishing is to make me feel bad about myself, about a score that I was proud of.
 
touchpause13 said:
LOL I love this btw.
For us it's like

Adminstration: We are concerned about students' well-being
Sends out sassy emails for students who don't do well on exams. Seriously, IDGAF if you think my score is "marginal" it's a 13 percentage point increase from my previous, and it's passing. Suck it.
Click to expand...

Oh so you chose that professor who is known to waste time, make 0 sense, and generally test on things that s/he didn't emphasize? Tell me more about how you care so much.
 
touchpause13 said:
LOL I love this btw.
For us it's like

Adminstration: We are concerned about students' well-being
Sends out sassy emails for students who don't do well on exams. Seriously, IDGAF if you think my score is "marginal" it's a 13 percentage point increase from my previous, and it's passing. Suck it.
Click to expand...
Whenever I see the administrators pop into our lecture hall I literally get angry because I know we're about to be bitched at or have a bunch of stupid **** thrown at us.
 
touchpause13 said:
They can look up what I've done.

I have a tutor. I've gone student services, I've gone to my advisor, I've gone to the professor. I'm doing everything that I can, I end up significantly improving, and they still have to shet on me. F that man. Literally the only thing that is accomplishing is to make me feel bad about myself, about a score that I was proud of.
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They definitely have your name on the "red" list.
 
My class shares study guides with each other and puts in the effort to help one another out on things so I don't think anyone feels like they can't ask for help even from fellow classmates. It's too bad not everyone feels like they can ask for help without being judged.
 
You'll be alright @touchpause13, screw the school and their snarky emails.

On a brighter note, admin at my school has been great about me having to miss some stuff and have worked with me a lot. Granted this was all "required" fluff stuff and not anything related to the actual courses, but hey it's nice to see them giving an inch for me when I asked for some leniency.
 
touchpause13 said:
They can look up what I've done.

I have a tutor. I've gone student services, I've gone to my advisor, I've gone to the professor. I'm doing everything that I can, I end up significantly improving, and they still have to shet on me. F that man. Literally the only thing that is accomplishing is to make me feel bad about myself, about a score that I was proud of.
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Don't sweat the emails, they're basically meaningless. There's a steep learning curve first semester, especially when people are still trying to figure out what works for them and with anatomy and all. If you're improving, just keep it up and work hard.

By the way, my school had a similar policy where if you were at like a low C/failing, they make you go to a meeting with your advisor. In MS1, I walked into the first "practical quiz" for anatomy completely unprepared (we had a handful of these and each was worth like 5 points out of the 800 or so for the class which was mostly made up of exams - so like less than 1% of my grade) and I got like a 2/5. Sure enough, I got an email from my advisor saying I had to meet with him. No joke, it was like a 5min meeting and he was like, yeah they force us to meet with anyone who's "failing" anything, so I get a ton of meeting early in the semester and then barely have to meet with anyone after anatomy.
 
hallowmann said:
Don't sweat the emails, they're basically meaningless. There's a steep learning curve first semester, especially when people are still trying to figure out what works for them and with anatomy and all. If you're improving, just keep it up and work hard.

By the way, my school had a similar policy where if you were at like a low C/failing, they make you go to a meeting with your advisor. In MS1, I walked into the first "practical quiz" for anatomy completely unprepared (we had a handful of these and each was worth like 5 points out of the 800 or so for the class which was mostly made up of exams - so like less than 1% of my grade) and I got like a 2/5. Sure enough, I got an email from my advisor saying I had to meet with him. No joke, it was like a 5min meeting and he was like, yeah they force us to meet with anyone who's "failing" anything, so I get a ton of meeting early in the semester and then barely have to meet with anyone after anatomy.
Click to expand...


So my school isn't the only school to do this crap. @touchpause13 I got one of those emails after the first exam too. I almost sent one back saying " don't worry about me I got this"
 
touchpause13 said:
They can look up what I've done.

I have a tutor. I've gone student services, I've gone to my advisor, I've gone to the professor. I'm doing everything that I can, I end up significantly improving, and they still have to shet on me. F that man. Literally the only thing that is accomplishing is to make me feel bad about myself, about a score that I was proud of.
Click to expand...
I have no idea what your average is but this is usually the way it works:

If you score below a certain number your professor automatically contacts you that you scored below yada yada. The school's job is to make sure you are using all the resources available and can even compel you to use them (not that you should need convincing). My guess if you vastly improved is they still want to put the heat on so you don't suddenly let up and think everything is hunky dory. I think part of the wrench in the whole thing is your school is letter graded as well not H/P/F for example.

Usually for students there are certain "administrators" who are the bad ones who are carrying out policy that are the issue. Just keep that in mind latter when they come to you for alumni donations - and you can tell them to go f' themselves.
 
med school is a bit more like real life, before was a utopia environment.

The truth is nobody cares anymore.
No amount tutoring is going to bring you back, unless you choose to, they will put a facade: in the real world if you are weak you will be given hints or advises, if you are too weak you will be pushed down further down with the very same feet of the people who were accompanying you.

I am more interested in the "hidden curriculum" discussion that is more aligned with the true "show no weakness" culture of medical education.
 
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