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The spirit of PBA

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by GatorRomp, Dec 1, 2008.

  1. GatorRomp

    GatorRomp PharmD Student
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    Having interviewed at other schools, having spoken to their students, I have come to really appreciate what Palm Beach Atlantic is trying to do with building the "moral character" of each student, as Pharmboi so eloquently put it.

    As recently as two weeks ago, I hadn't fully appreciate the significance of this and have come to realize that I was cocky, prideful and selfish.

    During my interviews, I had a chance to see the schools and their students. One NOVA student commented that UF & PBA assign irrelevant work that needlessly complicate things for the student. During a UF orientation, one 2PD student commented he's heard NOVA & PBA students have too much time on their hands, and that UF students are busy. At LECOM, one student claimed that she thought LECOM was harder than PBA (even though it appeared I had more mastery of physiology than she, upon which she commented: we should have been classmates!). FAMU has produced many summa cum laude who are current residents and doing important work at the VA hospital (despite some bad publicity of higher personnels).

    PBA has opened a residency program and conducted important work in the community with the underserved and uninsured. It is interesting that this type of work is expressed in my personal statement, yet I lost the value of it somewhere in the hype of interviews and expectations. The lack of PBA threads on SDN did not escape me either. Perhaps, they lack the zeal-- the kind that transcends cockyness--or perhaps, they are just a humble bunch.


    I'm so excited to be a part of this institution as it will make me a competent pharmacist as well as feed me the 'moral character' that is so vital to any individual. When I feel the need to be cocky and smarter by the significance of the white coat I'll wear during my rotations, I hope it keeps me in check. Good luck to all, wherever you are accepted!
     
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    #1 GatorRomp, Dec 1, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2008
  2. aboveliquidice

    aboveliquidice No sacrifice - No victory
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    Very interesting post. There is a lot to be said for practicing pharmacy with moral character and empathy.

    I wouldn't be so quick to look at the lack of moral fiber found at other institutions (no one student represents a norm of an entire institution) - but I am happy you are content with the curriculum you will be receiving.

    Congrats and good luck.

    ~above~
     
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  3. OP
    OP
    GatorRomp

    GatorRomp PharmD Student
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    Dear future colleague,

    Thank you for your comment. I can't argue that I have a confidence level that will yield the true student representation of PBA's ideology. I wasn't really trying to convince SDN populace that PBA was a moral compass whose students never breached our society's agreed upon ethics. Rather, for those who seek to apply its principles, it could serve as an added bonus and the opportunity to morph into a pharmacist who displays much needed empathy.

    Each school offers something unique. As such, as long as there exists a melting pot of diversity and thus, ideas, our patients will be the ultimate winners.
     
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  4. WhiteSnows

    WhiteSnows Think Right and Grow Rich
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    I like PBA a lot too. However, I do not have enough money to to go PBA tuition + living expenses. I want to go to Nova because of that. I live close to Nova, which helps me to save not only cheaper tuition, but also living expenses. Still, PBA gives me a unique environment. I love to be there.
     
  5. Pharmpills

    Pharmpills Accepted Pharmacy Student
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    "ideology, moral compass, breached our society upon ethics, morph, empathy, melting pot" NEVER have i heard someone on this forum spoken so eloquently lol but with that comes suspicion that you could work for them to encourage more students to apply. Sorry but that's what i believe.

    PBA is a good school but morals come from within and what you believe meaning if most of ur life u didn't have morals then going to a religious school isn't going to change you much. What i don't like about PBA is the insane tuition but as u said it has good things but i would look into other schools within FL rather than coughing up 30,000 just for tuition plus books, room, insurance, etc.
     
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  6. OP
    OP
    GatorRomp

    GatorRomp PharmD Student
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    Wow! Thanks for your comments. I must say that I'm surprised by your response though. Do a history on my comments and see for yourself if I've spoken much about PBA. In fact here is a recent comment to Pharmboi and perhaps it will convince you that your hunch is in fact, incorrect:

    "Moral character can be learned individually and religion as a medium to the latter is controversial. To me a set of accepted principles that is not counter-intuitive seem the way to go. I'm much more appreciative that my hard work earned me a pharmacy spot (and possibly more)."

    You essentially wrote a view I expressed more than two weeks ago!! And here's something more, Pharmboi is headed to LECOM-B and you are essentially expressing the positives he mentioned about the school. But kudos to you my friend. Please take time to read prior comments before posting something so blatantly incorrect. Why should I not be proud to talk about my school? I must somehow be employed by them? Also, good writing should not be sacrificed even on an internet forum.

    Ok... This is not the spirit of SDN.
     
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  7. litetigre

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    thoughtful post. PBA has a unique vision that is built into the curriculum. I am glad that I come to their interview. PBA really put healh professional ethics its first priority.
     
  8. JackTran

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    So do the other pharmacy schools.
     
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  9. aboveliquidice

    aboveliquidice No sacrifice - No victory
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    True - but PBA does take its own spin on it... God doesn't really have much of a role at my program.

    Curious - most people still say "God help me" or "Goddamn it" or "Pray to God I pass this test"... It happens with alarming frequency on test Fridays.

    While I do worry about the christian version of ethics being blurred with the Pharmacist's Code of Ethics - I also am all for people with a high moral compass practicing pharmacy - That sort of thing makes us better.

    ~above~
     
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  10. calisoca

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    Disclaimer: I'm not trying to test the boundaries of religious faith here, and such talk of this should be considered as healthy, but:

    You're walking straight into the debate that morality comes from a superior diety by implying as such. I agree that 'High moral compass' is a highly desirable trait throghout pharmaceutical practice, but there is no reason to think that this trait is specific to those who believe in 5th century fiction.
     
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  11. aboveliquidice

    aboveliquidice No sacrifice - No victory
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    Discussions of this type are healthy - as long as the participants maintain a level of respect and objectivity.

    I do feel that perhaps you misinterpreted my intent. There are laws that are written that do not coincide with certain religious beliefs. Case in point is Oregon's Death with Dignity law.

    The Christian faith has very stated and well understood beliefs concerning suicide. While we should all respect a person's right to religious freedom - in this case it directly contradicts the law we are duty bound to uphold. When a pharmacist decides to not treat due to moral conflict - you will find the "blurred ethics" that I am referring to.

    I in no way, shape, or form claim to have answers to these issues - but I do recognize their existence.

    ~above~
     
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  12. OP
    OP
    GatorRomp

    GatorRomp PharmD Student
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    Well... when I started the thread, my intent was not at all geared towards spawning a religious debate. Plato's allegory of the cave can be summed up this way: People will hear and believe what they want to hear and believe.

    In short, a religious debate often falls on deaf ears and is such a subjective topic that any debate on its merits is a waste of time. If you go back to my posts in this thread, at no time did I mention 'religious moral compass'. In fact, the word religion is not suggested at all. I mentioned words like cocky, selfish to describe a potential character flaw that should be nipped in the bud or controlled. An individual can learn to be humble on his/her own. Being in an environment, however, that recognizes these detriments certainly can go a long way in developing pharmacists who are reminded of these shortcomings.

    I'd much rather debate the state of retail pharmacy and the drive-thru phenomena to feed my inquisitive mind. Yet, the implications of ethical issues in healthcare cannot be underestimated (and an ethical dilemma is posted above). Hence, the debate will continue...
     
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  13. calisoca

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    I wasn't referring to your post, hence why I quoted aboveliquidice and not you.
     
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  14. medicalCPA

    medicalCPA Actually, it's medicalCPA, PhD now
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    "Christians" or "religious people" would have sufficed. And while I strongly disagree with the bolded, it is true that there are people with a "high moral compass" who are non-Christian, just as there are professed Christians whose moral standards are abysmal.
     
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  15. OP
    OP
    GatorRomp

    GatorRomp PharmD Student
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    Lol. I know that... which is why I did not quote your message! I just did a quick reply. :p The message is for our current and future posters... but really is food for thoughts. Hehe.
     
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  16. aboveliquidice

    aboveliquidice No sacrifice - No victory
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    My bad... How bout dem Gators!!!
     
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  17. Pharmdapp87

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    Hahaha! Can't wait for the Championship game!
     
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  18. Chillz87

    Chillz87 YouTuber
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    You already know UF is going to win :D

    Go Gators!!
     
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  19. aboveliquidice

    aboveliquidice No sacrifice - No victory
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    The only thing I miss about undergrad was the sports... O-Dome and the Swamp :( My brother & former roommate went to Atlanta for the SEC championship - They're also going to be in Miami come the 7th (or is it the 8th)...

    :mad: Pacific = great pharmacy school = non existant football team

    ~above~
     
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  20. Chillz87

    Chillz87 YouTuber
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    The sports are seriously something. I've been here at UF for 3 years and this will be my 4th. Sadly, this is my first time I have been to a football game, and it was because I was doing concessions lol.

    The spirit and feeling you get in the Swamp is amazing with 90k ppl.
     
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  21. LoKoTe

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    I did part of my undergrad at PBA and got accepted to their pharmacy program as well but decided to go to Nova instead. The school and the professors look really good from the outside, but once you're inside everything changes dramatically.

    Students are not allowed to drink alcohol outside of school. Many do this, but if you get caught and tested by anyone who works for the school you are in big trouble. I have some friends who are in Pharmacy School at PBA and they say most students ( 21+ ) drink socially on weekends with no problems, but you never know. Plus WHO are they to prohibit what I do on my own time.

    Tuition is crazy, the Dean explicitly say in his interview speech that the school is private ( obvious ) and for-profit. AND they make you pay $2000 in your first semester to get a tablet pc that they WANT you to have. The tablet pc they offer is really outdated, WAY overpriced, and they don't care if you have your own laptop or even if you but the same model some place else.

    Students, including pharmacy students, have to go to chapel (1 hour every time) 12 times a semester. If they think they can educate/transform students to acquire good morals then why not trust them instead of making them swipe IDs to confirm 12 attendances per semester?? Think about this when studying time comes, or if it's the last chance for a chapel that semester and turns out you were actually really busy studying on the previous occasions, and you just happen to have a test right after chapel.

    Students, including pharmacy students once again, have to DO 45 hours of community service per academic year. I don't mind volunteering and helping people on my free time, but it turned out in my last semester I didn't have time for anything else except studying and preparing stuff for interviews, so I didn't complete my 45 hours and oh boy, it was a mess to "trick them" so that they would send my transcript to others schools without CHARGING me $40 per every hour I didn't complete.

    The school is accredited and from my experience, the pharmacy professors I met while I was in undergrad are very nice and knowledgeable, but the curriculum has changed 3 times already; and you have to take a religion class in your first semester of P1 year. I had taken the same class in undergrad there, and I'd have had to re-take it again. Nonsense.

    I'm not anybody to tell anyone where to go or where not to go. Just some advise, make sure you really like everything about it, or you'll have a horrible time for 4 years.
     
  22. OP
    OP
    GatorRomp

    GatorRomp PharmD Student
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    Thank you for contributing to this thread! I especially appreciate your insights about your alma mater.

    I don't know why you chose PBA for your undergrad especially if there are FAU, UM, FIU, FAMU, UF, USF, UCF, NOVA as major universities in Florida. I'm guessing at some point in your life, you had to make certain decisions at that point in time. Or perhaps, you calculated that PBA does offer preference to its students for pharmacy spots. During the four years, you did not transfer to other schools because you adapted and no doubt, perhaps, it was the right thing to do at the time.

    You stated that you were admitted to their pharmacy program. You were so unhappy in your undergrad (and you knew their rules), that you decided to apply there anyways. I'm guessing, in the competitive pharmacy admssions field, you decided to play it safe:

    1) PBA offers spots to its students.
    2) If you were not admitted to NSU, chances are you'd attend PBA (since you disagree so strongly about their criteria, it seems a bit odd).

    What then, do you tell the pharmacy students who applied there?

    I live close to both NSU and PBA. My first choice is UF (Gainesville). In my opinion, I prefer to be in class with live professors. Even UF, have had changes in their curriculum (what does that make them?). On their website, you'll see curriculum after 2005 (for current students).

    That being said, I probably would attend NSU (Gardens even if it's satellite because it is cheaper and yes also no religious criteria).

    I'm not leaning toward PBA (I'm still in the application pool at NSU, UF, Bradenton) because I'm a hardcore Christian. In fact, I'm not. However, there are certain things I appreciate. My significant other convinced me that being a Christian was right and I'm still feeling my way around it. PBA, at this time, revolves around my shifting Christian views and I see its positives in people's lives. However, science is still predominantly the competing view at this point. I'm a local and as such, I'd be willing to attend PBA. At some point, you grow old. Alcohol, clubbing, smoking are just not the way of life anymore. By then, if you are married and have children... you'd want to make sure that they wont be with drunk friends and God forbid... caught drunk driving. I guess, I appreciate PBA for all the non-Christian values.

    But for you... why did you apply to PBA Pharmacy school?

    I'm guessing you made a calculated move. A bold one at that dear SDNer.

    Again, your insights are appreciated. And of course... no hard feelings. I just like to be open minded and objective.
     
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  23. LoKoTe

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    I didn't take all my undergrad courses at PBA, only my last 3 semesters. I learned about PBA at a College Fair and learned they had a Pharmacy School and a guaranteed acceptance program. That alone did not convinced me, since I didn't like the religious part that much. I did go in several occasions to the school to take tours and see if I liked it. From the outside, it looks like a great school. Once I was inside, I started to dislike it tremendously, but I was already there and I had already taken loans to pay for it.

    PBA was my last choice after being admitted in undergrad. I got accepted to Nova and I currently go to Pharmacy School there, even though I got accepted to others schools as well, including PBA. I respectfully declined my spot there. I have some friends who attend there and I'm in constant communication with them. I also spent considerable time in the building, since out Anatomy courses were there. I also liked to go and meet with one of the admissions counselors and ask questions.

    For me UF and Nova have the best academic programs in the state, but this is my personal opinion and of course I haven't been in every pharmacy program to support my claim, so again, it is only my opinion.

    What I'd recommend any future applicant, is that if money is not an issue and that person is religious, attend PBA. If you don't have the money, if you're not religious, and if you don't wanna risk being in a new school with a changing curriculum don't go. I guess what bothered me the most, personally, was being told what to do and when to do it, when this is a free country. I do have to add though, that I didn't think I was going to get accepted anywhere and I was really happy when I got accepted there because it was something at least.

    Regarding Nova, there are things I don't like about the school as well. Nothing is perfect and of course I'm not either; but these are very minor details I'd say. I'm very happy and grateful to be at NSU though, and I'd personally recommend it to anybody. I'm at the Davie campus though, and I agree with you about the live professor thing. I don't think I could stand a live feed. I also have some friends at the WPB campus and they really like it, except for the fact that they take attendance at the start of every class and that might be annoying to some people. Anyhow, good luck with your admission.
     
  24. JackFruitLover

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    I agree, being a pharmacist does take a lot of humility.
     
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