The Stigma...Is it only for Carribean med schools?

[inliner42]

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Wow guys, i've been terrified with the whole carribean stigma thing...

I'm currently in med school in Greece( 6 year European program) and i'm greek american born and raised here....

I WILL return for residency...

Will be a stigma for me as well as an IMG? competition for entering greek medical schools is cut-throating (my gpa in high school was like 18.962/20.000) 😛 ???????

 

[njbmd]

Wow guys, i've been terrified with the whole carribean stigma thing...

I'm currently in med school in Greece( 6 year European program) and i'm greek american born and raised here....

I WILL return for residency...

Will be a stigma for me as well as an IMG? competition for entering greek medical schools is cut-throating (my gpa in high school was like 18.962/20.000) 😛 ???????

Hi there,
As an FMG, you will face an up hill battle coming back to the US for residency. If you want to practice here, you get the board scores and learn what you need to get the job done. Will you have your choice of every residency? No, but you should spend some time going to national meetings (and doing audition rotations) in the specialty of your interest and make some contacts. Your chances of getting a good slot are more dependent on contacts and solid performance. Also be aware that the rules for FMGs are anything but static so keep up with what is going on and meet or exceed all deadlines.
njbmd 🙂

 

[Ramoray]

I feel bad for the IMGs , and i think its ridiculous that they have such a hard time getting to america. Its not like medschool in US is that great or you learn that much. I mean how much do you really know after 4 years of medschool that any IMG wouldnt know. I think us schools are overrated and im surprised residency directors do not know that. It seems to me that if someone has the step 1 scores than they shoul be competitive as the next person. If someone gets a 230 then they should be able to be compeitive for a residency the same as a US student who got a 230. anyway this is not true from what i have read and it IS hard for an IMG but all im saying is i feel for ya but im sure if you work hard youll have no probs

 

[Clin_Epi]

Wow guys, i've been terrified with the whole carribean stigma thing...

I'm currently in med school in Greece( 6 year European program) and i'm greek american born and raised here....

I WILL return for residency...

Will be a stigma for me as well as an IMG? competition for entering greek medical schools is cut-throating (my gpa in high school was like 18.962/20.000) 😛 ???????

Personally, I would not. It is difficult to be accepted to medical school in Europe (for EU citz.), Canada, HK, Japan or S. Africa...

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

it seems it's not so much the stigma as the little availability of residency spots for fmg's.

from what i've read, fmg's get last pick, unless they do really really well, in which case, they'll get first pick over a student from Meharry.

 

[Rzarecta]

Wow guys, i've been terrified with the whole carribean stigma thing...

I'm currently in med school in Greece( 6 year European program) and i'm greek american born and raised here....

I WILL return for residency...

Will be a stigma for me as well as an IMG? competition for entering greek medical schools is cut-throating (my gpa in high school was like 18.962/20.000) 😛 ???????

Obviously there is going to be some stigma attached to a foreign degree, especially if you were born in the US. However, it won't stop you from being a doctor, so just get some thick skin and you will be fine. Also, I think it will be only be annoying early on in your career, after that no one really cares or notices.

 

[dara678]

I don't know if it's a stigma (maybe it is), but I just thought that residency spots here are kind of "reserved" for US graduates. I mean people get all up in arms that FMGs have a reduced chance of gaining the residency of choice, but isn't it reasonable for the country to give its own citizens and graduates preference? I mean, it's even HARDER for US graduates to get residencies abroad than it is for FMG's to get residencies here.

I don't think med students or even physicians in general think that FMG's have a lower quality education or are worse physicians; medical knowledge is universal and of course everyone has to pass the same exam. It's just that I do think it is reasonable to prefer your own country's graduates to another.

 

[inliner42]

Well i was born and raised in greece... What i think is unfair is the fact that an IMG has to score really higher than an american grad only to be competitive for a residency spot...

 

[Ramoray]

Well i was born and raised in greece... What i think is unfair is the fact that an IMG has to score really higher than an american grad only to be competitive for a residency spot...

i actually didnt think about it that way, come to think of it of course it is more fair to give us grads a better shot at a us residency. I mean the money we pay goes to medschools which funds their programs for a variety of programs, taxes we pay etc etc. I think us grads shoul dget first crack. I dont think IMGs supposedly need a better score if a spot is available, i just think after you dish out spots to us grads that less places are available and then you are competing with all IMGs for those spots so to stand out you need a higher score since the ones applying are usually the smart ones with good scores. I mean im betting in greece they give a greek first dibs at a spot over an american right, so why not work both ways

 

[TripleDegree]

I feel bad for the IMGs , and i think its ridiculous that they have such a hard time getting to america. Its not like medschool in US is that great or you learn that much. I mean how much do you really know after 4 years of medschool that any IMG wouldnt know. I think us schools are overrated and im surprised residency directors do not know that. It seems to me that if someone has the step 1 scores than they shoul be competitive as the next person. If someone gets a 230 then they should be able to be compeitive for a residency the same as a US student who got a 230. anyway this is not true from what i have read and it IS hard for an IMG but all im saying is i feel for ya but im sure if you work hard youll have no probs

Just out of curiosity, is it as easy for American citizens to get into a Greek medical school as it for native born Greeks?

 

[inliner42]

Well it depends if you went in a greek high school in greece. If you are a foreign national (i think even eu national) and attended a greek high school then you have just to take the panhellenic exams which all the greeks take, the competition is huge (you have to score 18,75 and above just to get to a school near the borders with turkey! there are 7 schools in greece.) and there are no criteria other than the exams.

For greeks living abroad, there are different exams with less competition.

If you are a foreigner and went to a foreign high school in greece (eg. american community schools etc.) or outside greece, entering the greek university gets really easier. I think that you only have to take some (difficult but doable) language exams and maybe some other tests that they are not that difficult. But the barrier here is the language, very difficult for the average foreigner.

Then for residency there are no exams. Just a huge waiting list, for your spot to enter (0,5-12 years depends to the specialty)

 

[inliner42]

I went to a greek american school (chose the greek educational system though)
and i have both greek and american passports...

Chose to go to greek med school because there are NO TUITION and for a family living in greece (middle class) paying for college and med school in the states is extremely difficult...

 

[noncestvrai]

Pouo rey, I hope you don't live in Athens...but now with the EU, if you can just go anywhere, i.e. England for eg. I have several friends from Greece, some of them are staying (here in Canada), others are going back home.

In fact a good friend of mine is going tomorrow for 3 weeks, I wish I could go, but for me one trip is enough (read I'm broke) for the summer!

kala, plus life in the US compared to Greece...I mean, especially if you live in the country or on an Island...

noncestvrai

 

[oompaloompa]

While its unfortunate that FMGs may feel shafted in some ways while applying for a U.S. residency(and I'm not saying that they aren't), I don't think that they should feel that the US is scoffing at their abilities. With the exception of a few carib schools that are more like "doctor factories"(let's be honest here) many international med schools are excellent and produce fine physicians. The problem comes down to the usual reason--> money. It costs $250,000 to produce a physician from a US med school, and with that kind of investment, you want to make damn sure that doctor stays in the US and practices, so its only natural to make it a top priority to provide a residency spot for him/her. The same rationale applies within the states. Fortunately for FMGs, the US produces far fewer grads than are needed to fill the residency spots. There's a huge uproar about FMGs having to pass the USMLE, but is it really so unreasonable to ask for the same requirements that US students have? I am sure that a US grad seeking residency internationally would be asked the same. Every country in the world takes care of their own first, but when the US does it everyone thinks its some sort of horrible discrimination.

 

[inliner42]

Well my i didn't have any intention to complain about the competiveness of IMG's, but to find whether is a stigma for european IMG's (yes greece is a part of the EU) and especially for IMG's from greece (although i'm almost sure you don't know 😛 ) like the one for those who went to the carribean...

And i really understand the fact that the most spots are "reserved" for people who graduated in the states...

If this was happening in greece i would have been sooooooooo damn happy 🙁 but...

 

[skypilot]

Well my i didn't have any intention to complain about the competiveness of IMG's, but to find whether is a stigma for european IMG's (yes greece is a part of the EU) and especially for IMG's from greece (although i'm almost sure you don't know 😛 ) like the one for those who went to the carribean...

And i really understand the fact that the most spots are "reserved" for people who graduated in the states...

If this was happening in greece i would have been sooooooooo damn happy 🙁 but...

I think most of the stigma goes away after you have gotten into a residency. Once you have completed a U.S. residency you will be considered a U.S. doc and will face much less stigma especially if you go for fellowships and specialty training.

 

[frank51]

What i think is unfair is the fact that an IMG has to score really higher than an american grad only to be competitive for a residency spot...

Why is it unfair? Believe or not, some residencies (surgery seems to be one of them) still to this day discriminate against D.O graduates who are educated here in the U.S using the same exact rigorous curriculum (with the addition of OMM) as U.S M.D schools. So when U.S residencies can choose to discriminate against U.S applicants, is it so unfair for them to discriminate against foreign medical graduates from countries where the standards of education may or may not be equal to the standards of education here in the U.S?

 

[brightblueeyes]

I don't think there's any stigma against foreign grads so long as they attended a med school with high standards.

It sounds like PD's will choose an American grad over a foreign trained grad with similar USMLE scores...but I don't think this has anything to do with stigmatization and I don't think it's unfair. They are simply giving preference to local graduates, in much the same way as in many other countries.

American students with high GPA's and MCAT scores who choose to study in a foreign country (presumably at a good med school) should recognize that they will need higher USMLE scores than US graduates to be equally competitive. It's just something else they need to consider.

Also, as many people have noted before, foreign schools do not "teach to the USMLE". However, I don't think this matters much for strong students.