The Top 33 Medical Schools: The SDN User's Power Rankings

[Myuu]

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Go Hokies!

 

[IlDestriero]

This is a pretty amusing. What's more worthless than the US News rankings? The personal biases of a prestige rank list of premeds.
At least US News tries to use real data for their research rankings. Flawed as it may be.
All the ranking algorithms are flawed. Prestige matters, but the history of your school's residents at a particular residency program is more useful. Board scores are even better.

 

[rxlea]

Al didn't invent the internet, I did. I hacked a bunch of ataris and hooked them up creating my very own network. Then, I thought to myself, "What if ALL my friends could hook up their Ataris to my Atari network?" So, I hacked the phone lines, too. Before we knew it we had a giant Atari network where could play Space Invaders with people across the world and viola! The internet was born. Al gore stole my idea and had the resources to hook up a bunch of computers. That bastard didn't even give me any royalties for my idea.

 

[mmmcdowe]

This is a pretty amusing. What's more worthless than the US News rankings? The personal biases of a prestige rank list of premeds.
At least US News tries to use real data for their research rankings. Flawed as it may be.
All the ranking algorithms are flawed. Prestige matters, but the history of your school's residents at a particular residency program is more useful. Board scores are even better.

Id also point out that the top ten rankings really are basically the same 10 as most years in the usnwr. Coincidence?

 

[Myuu]

Al didn't invent the internet, I did. I hacked a bunch of ataris and hooked them up creating my very own network. Then, I thought to myself, "What if ALL my friends could hook up their Ataris to my Atari network?" So, I hacked the phone lines, too. Before we knew it we had a giant Atari network where could play Space Invaders with people across the world and viola! The internet was born. Al gore stole my idea and had the resources to hook up a bunch of computers. That bastard didn't even give me any royalties for my idea.

Have you met the Winklevoss twins?

 

[TooMuchResearch]

On top of all the other problems with this poll, if you wanted a "better" result, you probably should have randomized the school order.

 

[vickpick]

awesome thread!

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Al didn't invent the internet, I did. I hacked a bunch of ataris and hooked them up creating my very own network. Then, I thought to myself, "What if ALL my friends could hook up their Ataris to my Atari network?" So, I hacked the phone lines, too. Before we knew it we had a giant Atari network where could play Space Invaders with people across the world and viola! The internet was born. Al gore stole my idea and had the resources to hook up a bunch of computers. That bastard didn't even give me any royalties for my idea.

Color me impressed.

 

[dbeast]

Al didn't invent the internet, I did. I hacked a bunch of ataris and hooked them up creating my very own network. Then, I thought to myself, "What if ALL my friends could hook up their Ataris to my Atari network?" So, I hacked the phone lines, too. Before we knew it we had a giant Atari network where could play Space Invaders with people across the world and viola! The internet was born. Al gore stole my idea and had the resources to hook up a bunch of computers. That bastard didn't even give me any royalties for my idea.

Yet you can't add Mayo to our poll 🙁

 

[Evergrey]

This thread is about as useful as the vote for Homecoming King/Queen (which, thank god, my high school did not have).

 

[MCAT guy]

SDN Power Rankings
The Top 33 Medical Schools according to SDN users

Current Results and notable movement:

• The top 20 has pretty much been solidified
• Washington University moves past Duke!
• University of Washington moves up to 12th from 14th
• University of Chicago passes up UCLA!
• Mount Sinai up to 16th from 20th
• Dartmouth exits the list and welcomes in University of California--Davis

1. Harvard University
2. Johns Hopkins University
3. University of California--San Francisco
4. Stanford University
5. University of Pennsylvania
6. Yale University
7. Columbia University
8. Washington University in St. Louis
9. Duke University
10. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
11. University of Chicago
12. University of Washington
13. University of California--Los Angeles
14. Case Western Reserve University
15. Baylor College of Medicine
16. Mount Sinai School of Medicine
17. Cornell University
18. Vanderbilt University
19. University of Pittsburgh
20. University of California--San Diego
21. Emory University
22. University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center--Dallas
23. New York University
24. Northwestern
25. University University of North Carolina Chapel Hill
26. Oregon Health and Science University
27. University of Rochester
28. University of Miami
29. Ohio State University
30. University of Iowa
31. Brown University
32. University of Colorado
33. University of California--Davis

Honorable Mentions:
34. Boston University
35. Yeshiva University
36. Wake Forest University
37. University of Virginia
38. Dartmouth Medical School

 

[MCAT guy]

This is a pretty amusing. What's more worthless than the US News rankings? The personal biases of a prestige rank list of premeds.
At least US News tries to use real data for their research rankings. Flawed as it may be.
All the ranking algorithms are flawed. Prestige matters, but the history of your school's residents at a particular residency program is more useful. Board scores are even better.

This is an opinion poll. It serves its purpose to reflect the opinions of SDN users.

These rankings do not claim to do more than that. The problem with your line of thinking, calling this "worthless", is that you are expecting this list to do something other than reflect opinions of pre-med and med students that use SDN.

 

[MCAT guy]

On top of all the other problems with this poll, if you wanted a "better" result, you probably should have randomized the school order.

Agreed. When I was typing it out I wanted to sort alphabetically. Then I realized that would take more than the 3 minutes it took to create this thread.

Laziness reigns supreme.

 

[MCAT guy]

Id also point out that the top ten rankings really are basically the same 10 as most years in the usnwr. Coincidence?

Basically Stanford kicked out University of Washington and also upstaged some big players like Penn, Washington U in St. Louis, Duke, and Michigan.

Top 10 according to SDN Users:

1. Harvard University
2. Johns Hopkins University
3. University of California--San Francisco
4. Stanford University
5. University of Pennsylvania
6. Yale University
7. Columbia University
8. Washington University in St. Louis
9. Duke University
10. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor

Top 10 according to US News:

1. Harvard University
2. University of Pennsylvania
3. Johns Hopkins University
4. University of California--San Francisco
5. Washington University in St. Louis
6. Duke University
7. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
8. University of Washington
9. Yale University
10. Columbia University

 

[IlDestriero]

The problem with your line of thinking, calling this "worthless", is that you are expecting this list to do something other than reflect opinions of pre-med and med students that use SDN.

The problem with your line of thinking is that you think that a poll reflecting the opinions of SDN pre meds is not worthless.😉

 

[MCAT guy]

The problem with your line of thinking is that you think that a poll reflecting the opinions of SDN users is not worthless.😉

It is what it is.🙂

It definitely won't make any decisions for me, but I still find it somewhat interesting.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Basically Stanford kicked out University of Washington and also upstaged some big players like Penn, Washington U in St. Louis, Duke, and Michigan.

Top 10 according to SDN Users:

1. Harvard University
2. Johns Hopkins University
3. University of California--San Francisco
4. Stanford University
5. University of Pennsylvania
6. Yale University
7. Columbia University
8. Washington University in St. Louis
9. Duke University
10. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor

Top 10 according to US News:

1. Harvard University
2. University of Pennsylvania
3. Johns Hopkins University
4. University of California--San Francisco
5. Washington University in St. Louis
6. Duke University
7. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
8. University of Washington
9. Yale University
10. Columbia University

Yes, but I said MOST years. Stanford is typically well within the top 10. This year is the abnormality. The only school that isn't i our list that is typically in the top 10 is U Wash. I think that the reason it isn't is because of the admissions policies towards most OOS students, which makes a lot of SDN users less inclined to vote for it because it isn't really on the radar. Switch out U Wash for U Mich and you have the typical USNWR top 10 with meaningless variation in the order.

 

[Narmerguy]

There is also the very real possibility that this ranking does not differ from US News because both "evaluators" are basing their evaluations on the same criteria.

Also, for everyone that turns their nose at this ranking, do you have some other insightful view on a better evaluation? Clearly no ranking method will be perfect, so propose something better if you find this collection so laughable.

 

[nolookpass]

Why does USC never get any love. How's their med school? I've heard good things about it.

 

[getdown]

There is also the very real possibility that this ranking does not differ from US News because both "evaluators" are basing their evaluations on the same criteria.

Also, for everyone that turns their nose at this ranking, do you have some other insightful view on a better evaluation? Clearly no ranking method will be perfect, so propose something better if you find this collection so laughable.

A very interesting question... Why do we need rankings in the first place? Are not all doctors created to fulfill the same purpose? Are not medical education standardized in terms of LCME regulations? Are not all med students required to pass the boards regardless what schools they go to? It seems like rankings are only there to sell books for USWN and for people with egos to laud it over others.

 

[gettheleadout]

There is also the very real possibility that this ranking does not differ from US News because both "evaluators" are basing their evaluations on the same criteria.

Also, for everyone that turns their nose at this ranking, do you have some other insightful view on a better evaluation? Clearly no ranking method will be perfect, so propose something better if you find this collection so laughable.

I'm not one of those people, but does anyone know if data on the percentage of students matching to their desired residency field exists by school? I would think that would be a good indicator of the quality of the school on a personal level, at least better than a match list. What about a list of the schools by actual attendance cost, accounting for chance of receiving non-load aid/scholarships, etc... Maybe a plot of that vs student/teacher ratio or some other objective measure of quality of education (in a very basic sense, not specifically for how well you'll be prepared to match or specialize or whatever.)

 

[Evergrey]

Why does USC never get any love. How's their med school? I've heard good things about it.

Interviewed/accepted there, it's a great school! I'm seriously considering going there. I think it doesn't get any love because County means that it is not as research-oriented as other schools (despite the fact that they still have a lot of research going on there). It seems like they deliver an amazing clinical education! They are definitely expanding the research though, they just opened a new CIRM Center for Stem Cell/Regenerative Therapy (joining the ranks of UCSF and UCLA).

 

[WingedOx]

This thread is useless without a bracket style knockout tournament.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

This thread is useless without a bracket style knockout tournament.

sounds like an SDN march madness challenge to me

 

[IlDestriero]

There was only a single person in my class who didn't match in their desired field. When I tell you how epically stupid she is you will not believe me. But, it happened. I she interviewed at several top programs for plastics and some monster general surgery programs, absolutely annihilated the boards, was at the top of the class, true superstar, etc, etc. Her top 2 plastics programs both called her and said she was their number 1 choice shortly before the match list was due. She, in her ******ed overconfidence and sheltered innocence, ranked a whopping 2 programs, no back up GS programs, not even all the plastics programs she interviewed with. The result... Scramble city into general surgery. One other person didn't match, but scrambled into another anesthesia program. His rank list was also top heavy. Oddly enough he has a questionable job with a big anesthesia management company now. Those jobs tend to be over worked and under paid, and unstable.
I think the vast majority of people match into their desired field from most US allopathic schools.

 

[Narmerguy]

A very interesting question... Why do we need rankings in the first place? Are not all doctors created to fulfill the same purpose? Are not medical education standardized in terms of LCME regulations? Are not all med students required to pass the boards regardless what schools they go to? It seems like rankings are only there to sell books for USWN and for people with egos to laud it over others.

Whether or not ranking schools is needed is a great question. Nonetheless, the argument I was addressing was different posters' remarks on the quality of this ranking.

Personally, whether or not all medical educations attempt to deliver a standardized experience aimed at the same goals does not mean that they perform the same in achieving this goal. Similarly, many parts of medical school (i.e research opportunities, professors with connections in their field, professors who can speak intelligible English, students who are exciting and motivating, location, etc etc) have no part of LCME but very much have an impact on your educational experience and perhaps even what kind of doctor you become.

I think it's natural, and reasonable, for students to want to separate schools based on the characteristics that they find important. Most students do this already by creating their own "subjective" ranking of location and cost.

 

[aSagacious]

sounds like an SDN march madness challenge to me

I've got Wake Forest as the final four dark horse.

 

[Lccjblu]

Nah, Duke's overrated 😴. They play in a relatively weak conference. Being in the Big East is like playing in the NCAA tourney every game, they're battle tested. Plus Duke chokes a lot ... CHOKERS!!

Come on dukies (dookies?) let's see you defend your team!!

Duke won the national championship last year....

 

[RingTailedDoc]

Nah, Duke's overrated 😴. They play in a relatively weak conference. Being in the Big East is like playing in the NCAA tourney every game, they're battle tested. Plus Duke chokes a lot ... CHOKERS!!

Come on dukies (dookies?) let's see you defend your team!!

oh lawd, I can't help but bite. There is an error in your logic my friend if you're trying to make the argument that the team that's won the national championship 4 times in the past 20 years (more than any other team) is somehow "overrated". instead of the "dookies" defending our team with the endless list of stats, tournament appearances, win percentages, etc, why don't you craft an actual argument instead of "wah wah Big East is tough"? By that reasoning, why doesn't a big east team win the tourney every year? Is the ACC a pretty lame conference? Yes. But that doesn't make Duke overrated. Because when Duke plays your "battle-hardened" teams, we beat them. Not always of course, but pretty regularly.

do I think we're the best team in the country right now? No, certainly not with Irving out. And I somewhat agree with your "choking" statement in that we rely pretty heavily on key players for scoring, and when one has an off day it tends to hit us pretty hard. But all teams have weaknesses. Doesn't equate to Duke being overrated. Satisfied? 😉

 

[RogueUnicorn]

everything is cyclical, i remember a few years ago when the ACC was STACKED.

let's not forget, there used to be a time when schools like st john were considered powerhouses..

 

[getdown]

Duke won the national championship last year....

oh lawd, I can't help but bite. There is an error in your logic my friend if you're trying to make the argument that the team that's won the national championship 4 times in the past 20 years (more than any other team) is somehow "overrated". instead of the "dookies" defending our team with the endless list of stats, tournament appearances, win percentages, etc, why don't you craft an actual argument instead of "wah wah Big East is tough"? By that reasoning, why doesn't a big east team win the tourney every year? Is the ACC a pretty lame conference? Yes. But that doesn't make Duke overrated. Because when Duke plays your "battle-hardened" teams, we beat them. Not always of course, but pretty regularly.

do I think we're the best team in the country right now? No, certainly not with Irving out. And I somewhat agree with your "choking" statement in that we rely pretty heavily on key players for scoring, and when one has an off day it tends to hit us pretty hard. But all teams have weaknesses. Doesn't equate to Duke being overrated. Satisfied? 😉

Haha, well, to answer your challenge: a blind squirrel can find his nut every now and then 😉. But yeah, I actually don't support any Big East schools and you may find this hard to believe, but I do support Duke though not as a fan. So many people hate on Duke that I find it highly amusing to piss them off by feigning loyalty to that team and "cheer" when they win. Does that make me a bad person? Oh yeah, but is it fun? Damn strizzle it is. But you know, Duke does consistently well that they deserve all that hate they get, it's just justified really.

 

[RingTailedDoc]

everything is cyclical, i remember a few years ago when the ACC was STACKED.

let's not forget, there used to be a time when schools like st john were considered powerhouses..

good point. and St. John's has been slaying ranked teams this year, beating ND, Duke, UConn, Pitt, and Nova, and with the exception of Pitt, by pretty large margins. Nothing to sniff at.

 

[Geekchick921]

I thought members could edit their own polls.... maybe only donors?

You're just trying to get money out of him, aren't you? 😉

lol. Everyone keeps saying fail on not having Mayo. I've agreed multiple times and asked site administrators (mods/donors/Zeus/etc.) to do something to add it.

LOL!

Al didn't invent the internet, I did. I hacked a bunch of ataris and hooked them up creating my very own network. Then, I thought to myself, "What if ALL my friends could hook up their Ataris to my Atari network?" So, I hacked the phone lines, too. Before we knew it we had a giant Atari network where could play Space Invaders with people across the world and viola! The internet was born. Al gore stole my idea and had the resources to hook up a bunch of computers. That bastard didn't even give me any royalties for my idea.

 

[FlowRate]

ITT: Texas and California applicant bias. Still a pretty solid list overall.

 

[apumic]

Whether or not ranking schools is needed is a great question. Nonetheless, the argument I was addressing was different posters' remarks on the quality of this ranking.

Personally, whether or not all medical educations attempt to deliver a standardized experience aimed at the same goals does not mean that they perform the same in achieving this goal. Similarly, many parts of medical school (i.e research opportunities, professors with connections in their field, professors who can speak intelligible English, students who are exciting and motivating, location, etc etc) have no part of LCME but very much have an impact on your educational experience and perhaps even what kind of doctor you become.

I think it's natural, and reasonable, for students to want to separate schools based on the characteristics that they find important. Most students do this already by creating their own "subjective" ranking of location and cost.

You would be better served getting the opinions of faculty about other schools or by step scores or....just about anything. [Most] Pre-meds known next to **** about the schools they hope to apply to. Sure, after interviewing you might feel you know something but think of your UG. Do students that come and interview there have any real understanding of what makes your school unique? Do you find the same things appealing about your school now as when you first visited it? (Even if you believe this last question is a "yes," keep in mind that you may be falling for a self-serving bias here, since your memory of what it felt like to tour your UG when you first interviewed there is almost certainly tainted, to at least some degree, by your actual experience there.)

As for the results, they show a very conspicuous bias toward schools at the top of your list. While this may be due to the strength of some of these schools, this rule holds fairly consistently all the way down the list. The fact of the matter is that many people are probably simply selecting the first 7 schools they see as reasonable instead of the top 7 choices overall. The hidden gems are NOT likely to be found in the first 10 schools or so listed, which means this "ranking" is essentially useless if anyone wanted to actually utilize it for finding good schools. (What other value does a "ranking" have?)

 

[FlowRate]

You would be better served getting the opinions of faculty about other schools or by step scores or....just about anything. [Most] Pre-meds known next to **** about the schools they hope to apply to. Sure, after interviewing you might feel you know something but think of your UG. Do students that come and interview there have any real understanding of what makes your school unique? Do you find the same things appealing about your school now as when you first visited it? (Even if you believe this last question is a "yes," keep in mind that you may be falling for a self-serving bias here, since your memory of what it felt like to tour your UG when you first interviewed there is almost certainly tainted, to at least some degree, by your actual experience there.)

As for the results, they show a very conspicuous bias toward schools at the top of your list. While this may be due to the strength of some of these schools, this rule holds fairly consistently all the way down the list. The fact of the matter is that many people are probably simply selecting the first 7 schools they see as reasonable instead of the top 7 choices overall. The hidden gems are NOT likely to be found in the first 10 schools or so listed, which means this "ranking" is essentially useless if anyone wanted to actually utilize it for finding good schools. (What other value does a "ranking" have?)

I still think the ranking from your old spreadsheet is best. That is, in terms of selectivity and competitiveness of the applicant pool. It's a good indication of the quality of student. Obviously, nothing will be perfect.

 

[Narmerguy]

You would be better served getting the opinions of faculty about other schools or by step scores or....just about anything. [Most] Pre-meds known next to **** about the schools they hope to apply to. Sure, after interviewing you might feel you know something but think of your UG. Do students that come and interview there have any real understanding of what makes your school unique? Do you find the same things appealing about your school now as when you first visited it? (Even if you believe this last question is a "yes," keep in mind that you may be falling for a self-serving bias here, since your memory of what it felt like to tour your UG when you first interviewed there is almost certainly tainted, to at least some degree, by your actual experience there.)

As for the results, they show a very conspicuous bias toward schools at the top of your list. While this may be due to the strength of some of these schools, this rule holds fairly consistently all the way down the list. The fact of the matter is that many people are probably simply selecting the first 7 schools they see as reasonable instead of the top 7 choices overall. The hidden gems are NOT likely to be found in the first 10 schools or so listed, which means this "ranking" is essentially useless if anyone wanted to actually utilize it for finding good schools. (What other value does a "ranking" have?)

First of all, it's not my list. I just voted.

Second all, I challenge you to defend your claim that this ranking is useless to finding "good" schools.

For all the hoopla people sling at US News rankings (which this closely mirrors for the top schools), it's not their problem. US News is very good at ranking what they deem to be important. The issue is that everyone and their grandmother wants to challenge that these rankings actually capture that "good" quality of a school. Well what is it? If you're expecting the rank to tell you where you'll have the most fun, or where you're most likely to get laid, or where you're likely to meet your future wife..those are all different things that aren't their problem. The US News publishes its methodology and if you don't find their different measured attributes valuable, that's your problem not theirs.

In much the same way, this SDN poll is all the students ranking the schools that they believe to be the "best" in an even more elusive sense of the word since everyone is clearly interpreting this differently. But don't dare claim it's useless, because it's actually telling you something very clear about how students interpret schools and what makes them the "best". Don't throw a hissy fit because it doesn't address your specific needs or interests.

Don't mean to sound angry or belligerent but I'm so tired of everyone somehow claiming that the data US News collects is bad. In statistics, there is no "bad" data. Sometimes the data doesn't tell you what you were trying to find, but that's difficult to say unless you actually quantify what a "good" school is. Sometimes it's not possible to collect data to answer the question you're looking for...that's research. But at the end of the day your data is there and it is very likely telling you something even if it's not what you personally were looking for or care about. Many a big discovery has been found this way.

 

[apumic]

First of all, it's not my list. I just voted.

Second all, I challenge you to defend your claim that this ranking is useless to finding "good" schools.

For all the hoopla people sling at US News rankings (which this closely mirrors for the top schools), it's not their problem. US News is very good at ranking what they deem to be important. The issue is that everyone and their grandmother wants to challenge that these rankings actually capture that "good" quality of a school. Well what is it? If you're expecting the rank to tell you where you'll have the most fun, or where you're most likely to get laid, or where you're likely to meet your future wife..those are all different things that aren't their problem. The US News publishes its methodology and if you don't find their different measured attributes valuable, that's your problem not theirs.

In much the same way, this SDN poll is all the students ranking the schools that they believe to be the "best" in an even more elusive sense of the word since everyone is clearly interpreting this differently. But don't dare claim it's useless, because it's actually telling you something very clear about how students interpret schools and what makes them the "best". Don't throw a hissy fit because it doesn't address your specific needs or interests.

Don't mean to sound angry or belligerent but I'm so tired of everyone somehow claiming that the data US News collects is bad. In statistics, there is no "bad" data. Sometimes the data doesn't tell you what you were trying to find, but that's difficult to say unless you actually quantify what a "good" school is. Sometimes it's not possible to collect data to answer the question you're looking for...that's research. But at the end of the day your data is there and it is very likely telling you something even if it's not what you personally were looking for or care about. Many a big discovery has been found this way.

This response clearly misses the point. There are some very big fundamental flaws in this attempt at a "ranking." They involve such things as lack of randomization (w/ a bias toward the US News order of ranking); lack of a reliable source of information (the source of many of these opinions is most likely US News and similar sources; in other words, this "ranking" weights US News twice over); and "best" is never operationally defined and is, therefore, from a research standpoint (and really from any perspective) useless.

 

[MCAT guy]

UPDATE!

SDN Power Rankings
The Top 33 Medical Schools according to SDN users

Current Results and notable movement:

• Stanford you're a superstar! Moves past UCSF for 3rd overall
• UCLA passes up University of Chicago, making a comeback and itching for a top 10 spot
• Hopkins isn't too far behind Harvard... could there be a new #1?
• University of Virginia breaks into the party
• Emory enjoys top 20 status
• Brown is slipping off the list

1. Harvard University (181 votes)
   
2. Johns Hopkins University (174 votes)
   
3. Stanford University 👍
   
4. University of California--San Francisco 👎
   
5. University of Pennsylvania
6. Yale University
7. Columbia University
8. Washington University in St. Louis
9. Duke University
10. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
11. University of California--Los Angeles 👍
    
12. University of Chicago 👎
    
13. University of Washington
14. Baylor College of Medicine
15. Cornell University
16. Case Western Reserve University
17. Mount Sinai School of Medicine
18. University of Pittsburgh
19. University of California--San Diego
20. Emory University 👍
    
21. Vanderbilt University
22. University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center--DalLas
23. New York University
24. Oregon Health and Science University
25. Northwestern University
26. University of North Carolina Chapel Hill
27. University of Rochester
28. University of Miami
29. Ohio State University
30. University of Iowa
31. University of Virginia 👍
    
32. University of Colorado
33. Brown University 👎

honorable mentions:

34. Boston University
35. Dartmouth Medical School
36. Wake Forest University
37. University of Florida
38. University of California--Irvine

 

[MCAT guy]

You would be better served getting the opinions of faculty about other schools or by step scores or....just about anything. [Most] Pre-meds known next to **** about the schools they hope to apply to.

Yeah, I find that all the faculty at my interviews had a completely unbiased view of their school... oops, NOT!

And UG faculty (at my school at least) knew nothing about what med schools were best.

Sure, after interviewing you might feel you know something but think of your UG. Do students that come and interview there have any real understanding of what makes your school unique? Do you find the same things appealing about your school now as when you first visited it? (Even if you believe this last question is a "yes," keep in mind that you may be falling for a self-serving bias here, since your memory of what it felt like to tour your UG when you first interviewed there is almost certainly tainted, to at least some degree, by your actual experience there.)

As for the results, they show a very conspicuous bias toward schools at the top of your list. While this may be due to the strength of some of these schools, this rule holds fairly consistently all the way down the list. The fact of the matter is that many people are probably simply selecting the first 7 schools they see as reasonable instead of the top 7 choices overall. The hidden gems are NOT likely to be found in the first 10 schools or so listed, which means this "ranking" is essentially useless if anyone wanted to actually utilize it for finding good schools. (What other value does a "ranking" have?)

Are you really trying to generalize the logic of 250+ voters? Wow.

lol. People keep calling this rank list useless. It's a rank list dude, nothing more.

Obviously there are good and bad voters. Informed and uniformed. It's how we elect presidents too. It's called popular opinion.

 

[MCAT guy]

First of all, it's not my list. I just voted.

Second all, I challenge you to defend your claim that this ranking is useless to finding "good" schools.

For all the hoopla people sling at US News rankings (which this closely mirrors for the top schools), it's not their problem. US News is very good at ranking what they deem to be important. The issue is that everyone and their grandmother wants to challenge that these rankings actually capture that "good" quality of a school. Well what is it? If you're expecting the rank to tell you where you'll have the most fun, or where you're most likely to get laid, or where you're likely to meet your future wife..those are all different things that aren't their problem. The US News publishes its methodology and if you don't find their different measured attributes valuable, that's your problem not theirs.

In much the same way, this SDN poll is all the students ranking the schools that they believe to be the "best" in an even more elusive sense of the word since everyone is clearly interpreting this differently. But don't dare claim it's useless, because it's actually telling you something very clear about how students interpret schools and what makes them the "best". Don't throw a hissy fit because it doesn't address your specific needs or interests.

Don't mean to sound angry or belligerent but I'm so tired of everyone somehow claiming that the data US News collects is bad. In statistics, there is no "bad" data. Sometimes the data doesn't tell you what you were trying to find, but that's difficult to say unless you actually quantify what a "good" school is. Sometimes it's not possible to collect data to answer the question you're looking for...that's research. But at the end of the day your data is there and it is very likely telling you something even if it's not what you personally were looking for or care about. Many a big discovery has been found this way.

👍 Agreed.

 

[MCAT guy]

This response clearly misses the point. There are some very big fundamental flaws in this attempt at a "ranking." They involve such things as lack of randomization (w/ a bias toward the US News order of ranking); lack of a reliable source of information (the source of many of these opinions is most likely US News and similar sources; in other words, this "ranking" weights US News twice over); and "best" is never operationally defined and is, therefore, from a research standpoint (and really from any perspective) useless.

Lol! You are a dork, lighten up bro.

There are flaws in this random @$s SDN thread that I made up in 3 minutes..... Well, Yeah.

It weighs the US News so much but

• Stanford moved from out of the top 10 (USN) to #3 (SDN),
• Miami moved from 50th (USN) to 28th (SDN),
• Baylor 24th (USN) to 14th (SDN)

It's pretty clear people are voting for both school and location.

If all rank lists are worthless then they are all equivalent in value, which means this is the most valuable rank list on earth!

 

[maniacmath13]

I'm not one of those people, but does anyone know if data on the percentage of students matching to their desired residency field exists by school? I would think that would be a good indicator of the quality of the school on a personal level, at least better than a match list. What about a list of the schools by actual attendance cost, accounting for chance of receiving non-load aid/scholarships, etc... Maybe a plot of that vs student/teacher ratio or some other objective measure of quality of education (in a very basic sense, not specifically for how well you'll be prepared to match or specialize or whatever.)

Apparently it is possible to figure out what percentage of graduates get into one of their top 3 residency choices: http://www.medicalschoolrankings.net/

A list based on that stat alone would probably be the most useful ranking.

 

[dbeast]

Apparently it is possible to figure out what percentage of graduates get into one of their top 3 residency choices: http://www.medicalschoolrankings.net/

A list based on that stat alone would probably be the most useful ranking.

All that website does is make me sadder that I'm not applying with my same stats in 2004.

 

[apumic]

Yeah, I find that all the faculty at my interviews had a completely unbiased view of their school... oops, NOT!

This is why you interview faculty about OTHER schools or you check with residency directors, etc.

 

[MCAT guy]

Final Rankings:

1. Harvard University
2. Johns Hopkins University
3. Stanford University
4. University of California--San Francisco
5. University of Pennsylvania
6. Yale University
7. Columbia University
8. Washington University in St. Louis
9. Duke University
10. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
11. University of Washington
12. University of California--Los Angeles
13. University of Chicago
14. Baylor College of Medicine
15. Cornell University
16. Case Western Reserve University
17. University of California--San Diego
18. Emory University
19. University of Pittsburgh
20. Mount Sinai School of Medicine
21. Northwestern University
22. Oregon Health and Science
23. University Vanderbilt
24. University University of North Carolina Chapel Hill
25. University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center--Dallas
26. New York University
27. University of Rochester
28. University of Miami
29. Ohio State University
30. University of Iowa
31. Wake Forest University
32. University of Virginia
33. University of Colorado

Honrable mention:
Brown University
Boston University
Dartmouth Medical School
University of California--Irvine
University of California--Davis

 

[MCAT guy]

USNews comes out March 15th I believe... we can compare that to this list in a few weeks.

 

[slatermd]

some sketch schools made the list in place of Dartmouth. Laugh. Oh, I mean

 

[MCAT guy]

This is why you interview faculty about OTHER schools or you check with residency directors, etc.

Not a reality for most pre-medical students. I didn't know any med school faculty or residency directors before being accepted.

 

[MCAT guy]

some sketch schools made the list in place of Dartmouth. Laugh. Oh, I mean

All we can do it set up the poll.

SDN picks the schools 🙂