The Truth About Prescribing Narcotics: Residents or Attendings Please Answer

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I went to my primary care today. He didn't yell at me, however he told me If I remained on Klonopin I would not survive med school. He also showed me two different prescription pads, one for normal drugs like cough medicine, and another for narcotics that's monitored by the FDA and controlled by the DEA. He claimed that the FDA monitors patients who use control substances and will cut them off if they find out that are they getting prescriptions all over the place. He mentioned that the DEA will come to the Physicians location and ask questions and if prescribing wasn't warranted they can have your medical license suspended. He told me to leave my Psychiatrist alone because she started getting antsy over increasing dosages. Is all this stuff true or was he just trying to get me to stop using the meds?
 
I went to my primary care today. He didn't yell at me, however he told me If I remained on Klonopin I would not survive med school. He also showed me two different prescription pads, one for normal drugs like cough medicine, and another for narcotics that's monitored by the FDA and controlled by the DEA. He claimed that the FDA monitors patients who use control substances and will cut them off if they find out that are they getting prescriptions all over the place. He mentioned that the DEA will come to the Physicians location and ask questions and if prescribing wasn't warranted they can have your medical license suspended. He told me to leave my Psychiatrist alone because she started getting antsy over increasing dosages. Is all this stuff true or was he just trying to get me to stop using the meds?

Well obviously the DEA does monitor those sorts of things... And he probably thinks that you're becoming dependent on them because it seems like you keep asking for higher doses?

What about this stuff did you find hard to believe?
 
Yep, totally true. I don't even write for Klonopin. It's addictive and hard to get off of. Most states now have a drug monitoring program we can look up online. It shows us when, where, and who you get controlled drugs from. It's helps us separate the shoppers from the legit folks. When I was in Montana the DEA regularly ran sting operations posing as travellers trying to get narcotics "just a few days worth" in order to get home. Many doctors went to jail for improper prescribing. Your PCP is absolutely correct.
 
Maybe this is a good opportunity to try to taper off the benzos with your doctor's monitoring and try to find an antidepressant that will control your symptoms before you start med school?
 
I honestly was hoping, the responses would be that he was lying. Now I am have a much more serious issue to deal with. I'm going to apologize to my Psychiatrist, I thought she was just being nasty and on a power trip. I know I sound somewhat misguided. I've had her raise the dose multiple time and then she freaked on me. No wonder.

] Many doctors went to jail for improper prescribing. Your PCP is absolutely correct.

I didn't think something like that was possible. Actually arrested just for improper prescribing.
 
I honestly was hoping, the responses would be that he was lying. Now I am have a much more serious issue to deal with. I'm going to apologize to my Psychiatrist, I thought she was just being nasty and on a power trip. I know I sound somewhat misguided. I've had her raise the dose multiple time and then she freaked on me. No wonder.



I didn't think something like that was possible. Actually arrested just for improper prescribing.
YES, this is the world we work in and patient's don't understand the repercussions. The DEA is a FEDERAL DEPT, worse than the IRS sometimes. Always have to watch your back. Being a physician is the only profession where you are guilty until proven innocent. It's not about being mean or trying to deny the patients, it's about protecting your license that took 10+ years to earn.
 
] Many doctors went to jail for improper prescribing. Your PCP is absolutely correct.
YES, this is the world we work in and patient's don't understand the repercussions. The DEA is a FEDERAL DEPT, worse than the IRS sometimes. Always have to watch your back. Being a physician is the only profession where you are guilty until proven innocent. It's not about being mean or trying to deny the patients, it's about protecting your license that took 10+ years to earn.

Well now I feel worst.
 
I only prescribe narcs post-op. For one time. 45 percs at discharge. 45 percs at first post op. After that? Sorry charlie.

I also work at an inner city hospital where Percysnack abuse is a major problem. 10$/pill is a snack for me but a big deal to them.
 
A lot physicians are hesitant to prescribe narcs these days. I have worked with an internist for 3 years and I have never seen him prescribe narcotics. He always refers patients who need narcs to psych or pain management docs.
 
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I wish I had never asked this question.
 
I wish I had never asked this question.
I think it's great that you asked this question. Not only are you helping other people in your current situation, but you also know exactly what you need to do in the future and can involve your PCP a team approach for finding an alternative. Don't confuse the posts here with negativity towards you-- everyone (mostly) is just trying to help.
 
I think it's good that you did.
I honestly didn't know this either

I agree I learned a lot in just these few posts. I am going to research it more also. I have two special needs children that may need meds soon. Good info to be aware of. And thank you for the link.
 
I agree I learned a lot in just these few posts. I am going to research it more also. I have two special needs children that may need meds soon. Good info to be aware of. And thank you for the link.
There is nothing wrong with needing meds. Some words of advice: If your kids need controlled meds then you will have to make monthly appointments with their PCP. That is how it is. Chronic pain patients also have to come monthly for narc refills. We do not write for refills on narcs or things like Ritalin or Concerta = don't ask for refills. ADD drugs are hot right now in the college scene and are sold regularly. Be sure you plan ahead when the meds are running out. You need to have them filled by the same provider every time. DO NOT GO TO URGENT CARE and expect to get ADD drugs refilled for your kids. It will not happen -EVER.
 
I went to my primary care today. He didn't yell at me, however he told me If I remained on Klonopin I would not survive med school. He also showed me two different prescription pads, one for normal drugs like cough medicine, and another for narcotics that's monitored by the FDA and controlled by the DEA. He claimed that the FDA monitors patients who use control substances and will cut them off if they find out that are they getting prescriptions all over the place. He mentioned that the DEA will come to the Physicians location and ask questions and if prescribing wasn't warranted they can have your medical license suspended. He told me to leave my Psychiatrist alone because she started getting antsy over increasing dosages. Is all this stuff true or was he just trying to get me to stop using the meds?

A few things.

One, it isn't impossible to survive med school on Klonopin. I have a lot of classmates that are on benzos, antidepressants, narcotics, you name it (the ones I know are legitimate, but I'm sure there are abusers out there, too). The problem is that they do make you sleepy and they do slow your thinking, and you can't afford that, and it becomes a balancing act. Your PCP is, in a way, correct, in that you will have to learn to deal with your symptoms without them. For example, it's Friday afternoon and you've got 30+ hours of material to get through for the exam Monday morning. You need to be awake, alert, and using your full mental capacities all day for the whole weekend, and you'd better believe there will be a source of anxiety hanging over your head the whole time.

If what you say is true about having your psychiatrist raise your doses repeatedly, it's not at all surprising that she freaked out. Benzos are amazing, in that they tame anxiety like nothing else, but they're awful in that they make your baseline anxiety without them worse and worse. Addiction Medicine people I've talked to have told me that benzos are hands down the hardest drugs to get off of. Again, you've got to learn to handle your symptoms without the meds, because otherwise you're going to continue building a tolerance and require doses that are going to make any doctor nervous. You may also find yourself using more than you're prescribed, and that NEVER goes over well when you're trying to get more at the end of the month, either with your PCP, your psychiatrist, or at the ER/Urgent care. Not saying you have to get completely off them, but you need to be able to say to your body, "okay, I hear what you want, and right now we can't do that. I will give you some meds in x hours when I'm done with this section." That's an oversimplification, but that's the idea. You need to tough it out, because if you can't handle that stress, then you can't handle being a medical student or physician.

I don't know your situation, and I apologize if this is a little much, but it seems like you're worrying about having trouble with things (e.g. getting prescriptions from multiple providers) that are used to monitor for patterns of abuse. If you're not actually in danger of triggering any of those, then relax. If you are engaging in those types of behaviors... be careful. Use it as a warning sign for yourself, and decide if it makes sense to seek help. Visiting a Narcotics Anonymous meeting may be helpful, if only to listen to their stories and see if any of them resonate with you. Whatever happens, just remember that nothing will torpedo your career at this stage more easily than substance abuse, so don't give anyone so much as a reason to suspect that this might be a problem.

Good luck to you, OP.
 
I wish I had never asked this question.
I read it. I get it, it's not a game. I feel like the Nazi's when they opened the ark. I would rather have not known. But too late, I'll learn from this. Probably more humility than anything else.

Is it just me or are these statements particularly bothersome?
You would rather have not known that narcotics are highly regulated so that you don't receive any sort of incentive to cut back? That is essentially choosing ignorance with a known negative consequence for the "benefit" of the short-term feeling. I don't know what your condition is or why a psychiatrist is giving you narcotics but you may want to do some reflection and think about the role these meds are playing in your life.
 
Is it just me or are these statements particularly bothersome?
You would rather have not known that narcotics are highly regulated so that you don't receive any sort of incentive to cut back? That is essentially choosing ignorance with a known negative consequence for the "benefit" of the short-term feeling. I don't know what your condition is or why a psychiatrist is giving you narcotics but you may want to do some reflection and think about the role these meds are playing in your life.


If you read JediZero's post, you would get it. Ignorance was bliss. Lets just say I'm wrong for asking my Psychiatrist for the meds in the first place and should have discussed other options. My thought process was, I am a sick, I need help its her job to help. My previous PCP dropped me as a patient for this same reason; no wonder. I was indirectly placing the liability on the Physician, I didn't know how any of this stuff was regulated. I'm in the wrong even though I had good intentions.
 
If you read JediZero's post, you would get it. Ignorance was bliss. Lets just say I'm wrong for asking my Psychiatrist for the meds in the first place and should have discussed other options. My thought process was, I am a sick, I need help its her job to help. My previous PCP dropped me as a patient for this same reason; no wonder. I was indirectly placing the liability on the Physician, I didn't know how any of this stuff was regulated. I'm in the wrong even though I had good intentions.
Unfortunately most patients think this way and it makes it very hard on our end to constantly say no. It's not that we really want to say no to our patients but we also know the DEA is always looming and the hard choices must be made. It's why it's so hard to find docs who do pain management. It can get ugly very quickly.
 
There is nothing wrong with needing meds. Some words of advice: If your kids need controlled meds then you will have to make monthly appointments with their PCP. That is how it is. Chronic pain patients also have to come monthly for narc refills. We do not write for refills on narcs or things like Ritalin or Concerta = don't ask for refills. ADD drugs are hot right now in the college scene and are sold regularly. Be sure you plan ahead when the meds are running out. You need to have them filled by the same provider every time. DO NOT GO TO URGENT CARE and expect to get ADD drugs refilled for your kids. It will not happen -EVER.

Thank you for this info! We are trying other therapies first. One child is my nephew who we are adopting and just got from California last week. He is over the top ADD with no prior assistance. The Urgent Care info is important to know also. Strattera was mentioned by one provider as it isn't at the level of Ritalin. People need to continue talking openly about this subject. Having ADD/Depression/Anxiety or any other unseen issue is the same as having diabetes. The stigma needs to be dropped.
 
There's a stigma with ADHD because it's over diagnosed and the reasoning is pseudoscience. I don't understand how Pediatricians are so quick to put kids on meds. Cabin do you know?
 
There's a stigma with ADHD because it's over diagnosed and the reasoning is pseudoscience. I don't understand how Pediatricians are so quick to put kids on meds. Cabin do you know?


I'm not a Doctor but as an insurance guy, the more medicated the fewer visits.
 
There's a stigma with ADHD because it's over diagnosed and the reasoning is pseudoscience. I don't understand how Pediatricians are so quick to put kids on meds. Cabin do you know?
Yes, it's called parents don't know how to parent anymore. They want a pill to fix everything. Most these kids just need discipline and things to do, physical activities, etc. I don't ever initiate medicine to children as their brains are still developing. I think most wild kids would do well being sent on a wilderness camp (I did this with my own son) where there is no electricity, video games, phone, etc. Where you have to work to survive and chores need to be done to maintain the camp.


Too much sugar, processed food, fast food, food dyes, etc. No one knows how to cook anymore either.

When my son was in Kindergarten he was wild. The teachers wanted me to put him on meds. He is not ADD, he has Asperger's and had anger issues due to frustration from speech diability. I refused to put him on meds.

What did we do?
1) My husband went to school and sat in class with him when needed.
2)We put him in karate 5 days a week.
3)He took anger management classes at age 5-6
4)He was in ROTC in junior high
5)I taught him to play saxophone at age 7, we played at home every night. He has been in band ever since, marching band in high school - every practice, every competition.
6) Music camp, wilderness camp in the summer. Time in Alaska with his dad.

He graduates this year, gets straight A's, and has never been on meds.
 
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Yes, it's called parents don't know how to parent anymore. They want a pill to fix everything. Most these kids just need discipline and things to do, physical activities, etc. I don't ever initiate medicine to children as their brains are still developing. I think most wild kids would do well being sent on a wilderness camp (I did this with my own son) where there is no electricity, video games, phone, etc. Where you have to work to survive and chores need to be done to maintain the camp.


Too much sugar, processed food, fast food, food dyes, etc. No one knows how to cook anymore either.

When my son was in Kindergarten he was wild. The teachers wanted me to put him on meds. He is not ADD, he has Asperger's and had anger issues due to frustration from speech diability. I refused to put him on meds.

What did we do?
1) My husband went to school and sat in class with him when needed.
2)We put him in karate 5 days a week.
3)He took anger management classes at age 5-6
4)He was in ROTC in junior high
5)I taught him to play saxophone at age 7, we played at home every night. He has been in band ever since, marching band in high school - every practice, every competition.
6) Music camp, wilderness camp in the summer. Time in Alaska with his dad.

He graduates this year, gets straight A's, and has never been on meds.

The teachers asked you to put him on meds? I didn't know they were pharmaceutical experts at the kindergarten level. But anyway, thanks for the awesome insight as always. I'm not a physician but I'm against putting kids on meds for simply being hyperactive. I thought that's how kids are supposed to be.

It pisses me off how much child issues are trivialized in this country.
 
There's a tremendous difference between taking an occasional dose of (properly prescribed) PRN Klonopin during sporadic high-anxiety situations, versus popping Klonopin around the clock like candy and spending every day in a sedated stupor.
 
First of all, there is a huge difference between benzos and narcotics. Yes, benzos are controlled substances but are safer than narcotics by orders of magnitude. If you have anxiety disorder or insomnia and are prescribed a benzo for a legitimate reason tell your PCP to leave you alone. You're not procuring your prescribed medication illegally. It's at your psychiatrists discretion as to what dosage suits you, and if the maximum dose isn't working you need a different drug.
 
This is a point of potential thread derailment but I wonder why OP wants to put themselves in a position that can potentially exassurbate your medical condition? Mental disorders are many times chronic conditions that the stress and lifestyle of medical school and residency can have a significant negative impact.

I don't think medical schools have the right or ethical standing to discriminate against anyone for a medical condition , be it physical or mental, and we can try to make reasonable accommodations, but what a risk you take. Medical education is not very friendly to students that need to take medical leaves of absences; they will often delay you a year or more. If you don't manage to make it through due to whatever reason you will have potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars of undischargable debt in your name.

Every medical student can name peers that have gone through serious mental stress and needed help. Some make it through and others do not. I think you PCP was giving you some good advice for medical school and really wants to spare you from the pain and stress of dealing with medical school with a medical disorder that seems to require higher and higher doses of medication. I think you would be wise to consider her/his words and consult with your psychiatrist as well about your concerns.
 
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