The ultimate reality of pharmacy profession 2014. Read here if you want to know the truth!!!

[lisinopril]

Let me introduce my background before writing about the pharmacy career. I am a working clinical pharmacist at a hospital. I started pharmacy school in 2000. I graduated my Pharm.D in 2004 and it's been a big change in this profession since the day I started working as a pharmacist. I have been working in both community (retails) and hospital settings, as well as teaching/preceptoring students over the years. Here is the reality:

1. Nobody will ever call/address you as "Dr" even though you earn the tittle and the degree (Pharm.D)
2. Expect to be yelled/screamed at by a lowlife drug seekers, old farts (if you work in retail), and by nurses (if you work in hospital).
3. Expect to be looked down by MDs/PAs ("what do you know? Just fill my script and don't call me every 5 mins for a stupid drug interaction! "click*)
4. Expect to be disgraced by stupid people who you try to save their lives when the doc wrote a prescription with 100 times dosage higher than the legit dosage.
5. Expect "Why my medication takes so long to fill?" everyday, every hour, everytime
6. Expect to get robbed.
7. Expect to ring up tampon, milk, cheese, etc...

I am here to give a cold reality of future job market:

1. Currently supersarturated in most areas.
2. Pharmacy schools cranks up 12,000 new grads every year now...and projects to shoot up 16,000 per year....Meanwhile jobs are shrinking and cannot keep up with number of new grads. Do the math and you will see #grads>#jobs.

Read this :http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687123/ (" A looming joblessness crisis for new pharmacy graduates").
3. A lot of applications for 1 job. I've seen one part time openning at my friend's place and he, as a director, reviewed 35 applications.
4. Pharmacy school tuition keeps rising up. Bet on unemployed with heavy student debt.
5. Call around your local area and pretend you are a pharmacist looking for work...see how they answer. If they give u a general answer like this "Please contact district manager at XXX-XXX-XXXX" then you know there is no job.
6. Don't rely on jobs posting online. Those are already filled/gone before being posted. Posting online is just a form to show equalness in labor act. In reality, those jobs have already been reserved by others.

I am here to inform you a cold reality of down trending in terms of respect. Everything here is the truth.

1. Pharmacists are no longer respected by other healthcare professionals as before since they are aware of the super saturation in our profession.
2. Most people don't know it takes 7-8 years to become pharmacists. When you tell them about it, they usually ask, "Why does it take so long to be able to count pills?"
3. In hospital settings, pharmacists are far inferior to mid level practitioners (NP,PA). Usually RNs feel inferior to PA, NP, MD, but not to PharmD. (In fact, RNs , even LVN and CNA yell at pharmacists are relatively common).
4. PA/NP get free lunches/dinners at hospital everyday and pharmacists have to pay. PA/NP don't have to wait in line to get food. They get served before the pharmacists or anyone else.
5. PA/NP can park at "DOCTOR PARKING ONLY" spots in a hospital vs pharmacists have to fight parking with EVS workers.
***PA/NP often get called "DR" from idiotic food server , such as "What you like to eat today, Doctor?" .
6. EVS (clean up people) don't even respect pharmacists.

I am here to give a cold reality of the so called "Obamacare"

With the Obamacare, people commonly think there will be a massive amount of prescription drugs to be filled....Yes, this is a very possible projection. However, with technology and with the number of influx of new graduates, this increase amount of Rx number won't help much.

Why pharmacy schools open left and right? Because it's a lucrative business. Think about it...A pharmacy class usually has 100 students (it can be more or less...but let's say average is 100). Average tuition for pharmacy per year is around 40K (could be more or less at some schools...but let's just be happy with this average). 40K x100 = 4 millions/year. A pharmacy school has at least 3 classes (p1, p2, p3). So every year, the school has an income of 4x3 = 12 millions/year. That's a SWEET income. This is why schools are open left and right. They don't care if students can get job or not in future!!!!! Just get their money first....

Students are so naive to get into pharmacy schools with the hope of landing a 6 figure income...without knowing that they won't be able to find jobs (OR at least scramble to find one) after graduation. Most students have no clue what they get themselves into.

If I am a student at this moment, I will not pursue a career in pharmacy. I'm too late for this. The risk is way heavier than the reward. I would likely consider some other alternatives.

Just my 2 cents....I am not receiving any money or any kind of compensation to write this. However, I just want to warn pre-pharm students ahead so that they can have a better understanding of what they get themselves into. The real picture is a lot uglier than most people think. You don't have to believe in what I said above....DO your own dd research. Want more proof? Here are some links:

1. http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/pharmacist/is-there-shortage-jobs-pharmacists/t302705
2. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/cant-find-a-job.896092/
3. http://www.post-gazette.com/local/r...rning-out-too-many-grads/stories/201310270094
4. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/omg-finding-a-pharmacy-job.967563/
5. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/omg-finding-a-pharmacy-job.967563/
6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3748292/
7. http://www.pharmacytimes.com/blogs/...rsupply-and-Lessons-From-the-Legal-Profession
8. http://www.marketplace.org/topics/life/overdose-pharmacy-students
9. http://exclusive.multibriefs.com/content/is-pharmacy-a-smart-career-choice/pharmaceutical
10. http://www.pharmacypracticenews.com/ViewArticle.aspx?d=Operations & Management&d_id=53&i=October 2013&i_id=1006&a_id=24255

11. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/is-the-field-really-over-saturated.1074545/
12. http://www.post-gazette.com/local/r...rning-out-too-many-grads/stories/201310270094

Want more? Just google "too many pharmacists" keyword in GOOGLE box. You'll hit at least 2 million hits...

Updated: 6/11/14:

Per requests, I am going to list the advantages/benefits of being a pharmacist:

1. You don't have to deal with blood, urine, smelly people.
2. You don't have to worry about being on call carrying a pager everyday (Most pharmacists are not on call, except some...like me...)
3. You don't bring work to home.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[NejixRockS]

Someone went thru a bad experience in a hospital... I'm a tech at a hospital atm and things are not this bad for pharmacists. There is no "looking-down" on anyone, that's unprofessional. Pharmacists get their own parking spaces... Nurses come into the pharmacy when they need something and they say "please", even doctors do the same. Respect is not something you demand, its something you earn...

 

[lesi7556]

Completely agree! I have been working at a pharmacy for 8 months and all of the pharmacists who supervise me are very respected around the hospital. I bet this is another student trying to scare other people away. It won't work man.

 

[demihope]

kinda makes me laugh that a lot of these are super petty and have to do with the cafeteria and parking spaces

 

[Irelia]

kinda makes me laugh that a lot of these are super petty and have to do with the cafeteria and parking spaces

Free lunches and designated parking...I think I should become PA/NP instead!!! XD

 

[vasoolraja]

Let me introduce my background before writing about the pharmacy career. I am a working clinical pharmacist at a hospital. I started pharmacy school in 2000. I graduated my Pharm.D in 2004 and it's been a big change in this profession since the day I started working as a pharmacist. I have been working in both community (retails) and hospital settings, as well as teaching/preceptoring students over the years. Here is the reality:

1. Nobody will ever call/address you as "Dr" even though you earn the tittle and the degree (Pharm.D)
2. Expect to be yelled/screamed at by a lowlife drug seekers, old farts (if you work in retail), and by nurses (if you work in hospital).
3. Expect to be looked down by MDs/PAs ("what do you know? Just fill my script and don't call me every 5 mins for a stupid drug interaction! "click*)
4. Expect to be disgraced by stupid people who you try to save their lives when the doc wrote a prescription with 100 times dosage higher than the legit dosage.
5. Expect "Why my medication takes so long to fill?" everyday, every hour, everytime
6. Expect to get robbed.
7. Expect to ring up tampon, milk, cheese, etc...

I am here to give a cold reality of future job market:

1. Currently supersarturated in most areas.
2. Pharmacy schools cranks up 12,000 new grads every year now...and projects to shoot up 16,000 per year....Meanwhile jobs are shrinking and cannot keep up with number of new grads. Do the math and you will see #grads>#jobs.

Read this :http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687123/ (" A looming joblessness crisis for new pharmacy graduates").
3. A lot of applications for 1 job. I've seen one part time openning at my friend's place and he, as a director, reviewed 35 applications.
4. Pharmacy school tuition keeps rising up. Bet on unemployed with heavy student debt.
5. Call around your local area and pretend you are a pharmacist looking for work...see how they answer. If they give u a general answer like this "Please contact district manager at XXX-XXX-XXXX" then you know there is no job.
6. Don't rely on jobs posting online. Those are already filled/gone before being posted. Posting online is just a form to show equalness in labor act. In reality, those jobs have already been reserved by others.

I am here to inform you a cold reality of down trending in terms of respect. Everything here is the truth.

1. Pharmacists are no longer respected by other healthcare professionals as before since they are aware of the super saturation in our profession.
2. Most people don't know it takes 7-8 years to become pharmacists. When you tell them about it, they usually ask, "Why does it take so long to be able to count pills?"
3. In hospital settings, pharmacists are far inferior to mid level practitioners (NP,PA). Usually RNs feel inferior to PA, NP, MD, but not to PharmD. (In fact, RNs , even LVN and CNA yell at pharmacists are relatively common).
4. PA/NP get free lunches/dinners at hospital everyday and pharmacists have to pay. PA/NP don't have to wait in line to get food. They get served before the pharmacists or anyone else.
5. PA/NP can park at "DOCTOR PARKING ONLY" spots in a hospital vs pharmacists have to fight parking with EVS workers.
***PA/NP often get called "DR" from idiotic food server , such as "What you like to eat today, Doctor?" .
6. EVS (clean up people) don't even respect pharmacists.

I am here to give a cold reality of the so called "Obamacare"

With the Obamacare, people commonly think there will be a massive amount of prescription drugs to be filled....Yes, this is a very possible projection. However, with technology and with the number of influx of new graduates, this increase amount of Rx number won't help much.

Why pharmacy schools open left and right? Because it's a lucrative business. Think about it...A pharmacy class usually has 100 students (it can be more or less...but let's say average is 100). Average tuition for pharmacy per year is around 40K (could be more or less at some schools...but let's just be happy with this average). 40K x100 = 4 millions/year. A pharmacy school has at least 3 classes (p1, p2, p3). So every year, the school has an income of 4x3 = 12 millions/year. That's a SWEET income. This is why schools are open left and right. They don't care if students can get job or not in future!!!!! Just get their money first....

Students are so naive to get into pharmacy schools with the hope of landing a 6 figure income...without knowing that they won't be able to find jobs (OR at least scramble to find one) after graduation. Most students have no clue what they get themselves into.

If I am a student at this moment, I will not pursue a career in pharmacy. I'm too late for this. The risk is way heavier than the reward. I would likely consider some other alternatives.

Just my 2 cents....

If a pharmacist does not do his/her duty properly, then everyone will look down and probably yelled at!

 

[oldstock]

Let me introduce my background before writing about the pharmacy career. I am a working clinical pharmacist at a hospital. I started pharmacy school in 2000. I graduated my Pharm.D in 2004 and it's been a big change in this profession since the day I started working as a pharmacist. I have been working in both community (retails) and hospital settings, as well as teaching/preceptoring students over the years. Here is the reality:

1. Nobody will ever call/address you as "Dr" even though you earn the tittle and the degree (Pharm.D)
2. Expect to be yelled/screamed at by a lowlife drug seekers, old farts (if you work in retail), and by nurses (if you work in hospital).
3. Expect to be looked down by MDs/PAs ("what do you know? Just fill my script and don't call me every 5 mins for a stupid drug interaction! "click*)
4. Expect to be disgraced by stupid people who you try to save their lives when the doc wrote a prescription with 100 times dosage higher than the legit dosage.
5. Expect "Why my medication takes so long to fill?" everyday, every hour, everytime
6. Expect to get robbed.
7. Expect to ring up tampon, milk, cheese, etc...

I am here to give a cold reality of future job market:

1. Currently supersarturated in most areas.
2. Pharmacy schools cranks up 12,000 new grads every year now...and projects to shoot up 16,000 per year....Meanwhile jobs are shrinking and cannot keep up with number of new grads. Do the math and you will see #grads>#jobs.

Read this :http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687123/ (" A looming joblessness crisis for new pharmacy graduates").
3. A lot of applications for 1 job. I've seen one part time openning at my friend's place and he, as a director, reviewed 35 applications.
4. Pharmacy school tuition keeps rising up. Bet on unemployed with heavy student debt.
5. Call around your local area and pretend you are a pharmacist looking for work...see how they answer. If they give u a general answer like this "Please contact district manager at XXX-XXX-XXXX" then you know there is no job.
6. Don't rely on jobs posting online. Those are already filled/gone before being posted. Posting online is just a form to show equalness in labor act. In reality, those jobs have already been reserved by others.

I am here to inform you a cold reality of down trending in terms of respect. Everything here is the truth.

1. Pharmacists are no longer respected by other healthcare professionals as before since they are aware of the super saturation in our profession.
2. Most people don't know it takes 7-8 years to become pharmacists. When you tell them about it, they usually ask, "Why does it take so long to be able to count pills?"
3. In hospital settings, pharmacists are far inferior to mid level practitioners (NP,PA). Usually RNs feel inferior to PA, NP, MD, but not to PharmD. (In fact, RNs , even LVN and CNA yell at pharmacists are relatively common).
4. PA/NP get free lunches/dinners at hospital everyday and pharmacists have to pay. PA/NP don't have to wait in line to get food. They get served before the pharmacists or anyone else.
5. PA/NP can park at "DOCTOR PARKING ONLY" spots in a hospital vs pharmacists have to fight parking with EVS workers.
***PA/NP often get called "DR" from idiotic food server , such as "What you like to eat today, Doctor?" .
6. EVS (clean up people) don't even respect pharmacists.

I am here to give a cold reality of the so called "Obamacare"

With the Obamacare, people commonly think there will be a massive amount of prescription drugs to be filled....Yes, this is a very possible projection. However, with technology and with the number of influx of new graduates, this increase amount of Rx number won't help much.

Why pharmacy schools open left and right? Because it's a lucrative business. Think about it...A pharmacy class usually has 100 students (it can be more or less...but let's say average is 100). Average tuition for pharmacy per year is around 40K (could be more or less at some schools...but let's just be happy with this average). 40K x100 = 4 millions/year. A pharmacy school has at least 3 classes (p1, p2, p3). So every year, the school has an income of 4x3 = 12 millions/year. That's a SWEET income. This is why schools are open left and right. They don't care if students can get job or not in future!!!!! Just get their money first....

Students are so naive to get into pharmacy schools with the hope of landing a 6 figure income...without knowing that they won't be able to find jobs (OR at least scramble to find one) after graduation. Most students have no clue what they get themselves into.

If I am a student at this moment, I will not pursue a career in pharmacy. I'm too late for this. The risk is way heavier than the reward. I would likely consider some other alternatives.

Just my 2 cents....

To the OP: everything in life has both sides: romantic and reality sides. You are brave to speak the truth about the reality !!

to my fellow students, ask yourself this, if the supply side is greater than the demand side, what would happen ??

I am not discouraging anyone to go into pharmacy if that is the thing you want to do and have a plan to prepare yourself for the reality.

check more of this in the pharmacy forum,

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...and-future-pharmacy-profession.1026244/page-2

 

[houston068]

Thank you for sharing!

I have done way too much online research lately & I am reconsidering my attempts to pursue a Pharm.D program. Everything you have posted is 110% on point.

I have been a Pharmacy Tech for 7 years. I also have my Bachelor's degree in Biology.
The lack of respect towards Pharmacists is quite disturbing. Corporate greed has negatively impacted the profession. These bigwigs at retail chains are oblivious to what actually occurs inside a pharmacy on a day-to-day basis. Pharmacists are expected to work busy, stressful, 12-hour shifts with no required lunch breaks. It also has become more about numbers ($$$) and less about preventing misfills.

If you have never worked in a pharmacy -- please mentally prepare yourself to face constant disrespect & undergo a lot of stress on a daily basis. Although with time, I'm sure you will develop thicker skin.

I have looked into getting a graduate degree in Pharmacology. I've always wanted to go into drug research & believe this may be a better route to pursue.

The perks: Many schools will provide an annual stipend of 23-30K and will waive tuition + provide health insurance.

Getting paid to go to school vs. 200K debt. I shall ponder on...

 

[demihope]

Free lunches and designated parking...I think I should become PA/NP instead!!! XD

Because when i deiced on pharmacy i really just wanted the respect of the burger king employees

 

[DruggieDoRight]

This the ultimate reality of ultimate destiny. (I forgot "!!" and "")

BTW: At OP and oldstock

 

[oldstock]

This the ultimate reality of ultimate destiny. (I forgot "!!" and "")

BTW: At OP and oldstock

hey Druggie,

I think I should let you know that I am going ignore your posts from now on. You have been antagonizing and picking on me for the sake of antagonizing. Do have something to add to the discussion.

I wish you had a life !!

 

[DruggieDoRight]

There's not really much to add to this discussion other than WOE IS ME which you can find in just about every thread like this.

 

[slimcutt]

5. PA/NP can park at "DOCTOR PARKING ONLY" spots in a hospital vs pharmacists have to fight parking with EVS workers.

The other day and EVS worker parked RIGHT NEXT TO ME! I am so for reals you guys. It was terrible. This car was like at '96 or '97 civic with some serious rear quarter panel damage and a giant spoiler bolted to the trunk. It was damn clean though, inside and out, but still...

*said with heavy sarcasm, in case it's not obvious.

 

[DruggieDoRight]

The other day and EVS worker parked RIGHT NEXT TO ME! I am so for reals you guys. It was terrible. This car was like at '96 or '97 civic with some serious rear quarter panel damage and a giant spoiler bolted to the trunk. It was damn clean though, inside and out, but still...

*said with heavy sarcasm, in case it's not obvious.

Damn those uppity underlings.

 

[vasoolraja]

Looks like the intention of some people on this forum is to scare away aspiring pharmacists. However, it is interesting to note that these people want to be pharmacists. That is very contradictory. The hidden intention behind the facade of altruism is clear!

 

[houston068]

Looks like the intention of some people on this forum is to scare away aspiring pharmacists. However, it is interesting to note that these people want to be pharmacists. That is very contradictory. The hidden intention behind the facade of altruism is clear!

I disagree! I think the rationale behind this post is to provide some insight to real-world challenges future Pharmacists may face.

You shouldn't go into anything blindly -- without considering all the pros & cons. "All that glitters is not gold."


Nobody is discouraging you from pursuing pharmacy. Don't be too extreme & jump to harsh conclusions. Good luck to you!

 

[lisinopril]

Someone went thru a bad experience in a hospital... I'm a tech at a hospital atm and things are not this bad for pharmacists. There is no "looking-down" on anyone, that's unprofessional. Pharmacists get their own parking spaces... Nurses come into the pharmacy when they need something and they say "please", even doctors do the same. Respect is not something you demand, its something you earn...

"Bad experience in hospital.." huh? I am working in a hospital. I am fine with my job. Pointing out the reality instead of painting a rosy picture is considered as "bad experience"?

I've been working a 4 different hospitals and none of them have parking for pharmacists only. But all of them have parking reserved for MD/PA.

Respect is earned...That's true. But if you have an MD, PA Degree...you don't need to earn...people automatically bow down to you...Pharm.D<<<----nobody cares.

 

[vasoolraja]

If pharmacy profession in the real-world is as brutal as portrayed by some people here, why would these people still want to be pharmacists? Who would want to knowingly jump from a cliff that is certain to kill you? Why would these folks still want to pursue the pharmacy profession when they are fully aware about the bleak future of this profession? That sounds fishy! It is high time that such people withdraw their applications from pharmacy schools and prove us that they really mean what they say.

What I really like about these folks is they add a disclaimer in the end of their comment saying that their posts are not meant to discourage others.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

If pharmacy profession in the real-world is as brutal as portrayed by some people here, why would these people still want to be pharmacists? Who would want to knowingly jump from a cliff that is certain to kill you? Why would these folks still want to pursue the pharmacy profession when they are fully aware about the bleak future of this profession?

The response to this thread is basically the answer to that question.

 

[sunshao]

in all honesty, this is for any job atm. Even ppl in med school are worried about this same situation, but they have more to lose imho because they have to specialize after they finish med school or they are looking at competing with other roles who can do the same labor, but cheaper.

 

[lisinopril]

If pharmacy profession in the real-world is as brutal as portrayed by some people here, why would these people still want to be pharmacists? Who would want to knowingly jump from a cliff that is certain to kill you? Why would these folks still want to pursue the pharmacy profession when they are fully aware about the bleak future of this profession? That sounds fishy! It is high time that such people withdraw their applications from pharmacy schools and prove us that they really mean what they say.

What I really like about these folks is they add a disclaimer in the end of their comment saying that their posts are not meant to discourage others.

Need proof? Check out the links I posted above. How about you go to pharmacy school...graduate...get a job..then come back and tell me that I am wrong.

 

[houston068]

If pharmacy profession in the real-world is as brutal as portrayed by some people here, why would these people still want to be pharmacists? Who would want to knowingly jump from a cliff that is certain to kill you? Why would these folks still want to pursue the pharmacy profession when they are fully aware about the bleak future of this profession? That sounds fishy! It is high time that such people withdraw their applications from pharmacy schools and prove us that they really mean what they say.

What I really like about these folks is they add a disclaimer in the end of their comment saying that their posts are not meant to discourage others.

I'm sure that the OP has a family to provide for. Changing career paths may be too complicated at this point of time. Clearly, your post is directed towards me. I was speaking from my personal experience working in a retail pharmacy. You must not have read correctly, I stated I wanted to pursue drug research. Since there are many fields of pharmacy besides retail -- I thought that the only way to do research is to obtain a Pharm.D & complete a year of residency. The post was relevant to the current dilemma I am facing. When I applied this cycle, I really did not pay much attention to how high the tuition is. Until recently, I was not aware of the future over-saturation of Pharmacists. I will be honest and admit that I did not pay attention to any additional "cons". I discovered the option of obtaining a graduate degree in pharmacology + toxicology with the perks of having no debt -- only a few days ago. I said I am reconsidering MY career path. Never did I discourage anybody from pursuing pharmacy. The fact that you even think some of us may have a hidden agenda is quite pathetic in all honesty. Go on with your life & stop jumping to conclusions (once again).

 

[vasoolraja]

I'm sure that the OP has a family to provide for. Changing career paths may be too complicated at this point of time. Clearly, your post is directed towards me. I was speaking from my personal experience working in a retail pharmacy. You must not have read correctly, I stated I wanted to pursue drug research. Since there are many fields of pharmacy besides retail -- I thought that the only way to do research is to obtain a Pharm.D & complete a year of residency. The post was relevant to the current dilemma I am facing. When I applied this cycle, I really did not pay much attention to how high the tuition is. Until recently, I was not aware of the future over-saturation of Pharmacists. I will be honest and admit that I did not pay attention to any additional "cons". I discovered the option of obtaining a graduate degree in pharmacology + toxicology with the perks of having no debt -- only a few days ago. I said I am reconsidering MY career path. Never did I discourage anybody from pursuing pharmacy. The fact that you even think some of us may have a hidden agenda is quite pathetic in all honesty. Go on with your life & stop jumping to conclusions (once again).

There are some others too who support your views, so my post is not aimed at you in particular. My intention is not to offend you, but to know why some of you pursue pharmacy if you know for sure it is going to make you bankrupt. However, it makes sense that you are changing your career path by going for a graduate program in pharmacology/toxicology. I am still skeptical about the intention of some others.

On the other hand, it is sad to note some pharmacy aspirants indulging in complaining and wasting all our valuable energy. Instead of complaining why not we unite and find out ways to tackle the problems we are facing. If we complain and take a passive role, nothing changes. On the other hand facing the problems squarely and taking actions would alleviate at least part of our problems.

 

[vasoolraja]

Need proof? Check out the links I posted above. How about you go to pharmacy school...graduate...get a job..then come back and tell me that I am wrong.

Hi, I read some of the references cited by you. I agree that the authors make some valid predictions about the bleak future of the profession. However, these articles do not definitively state that most of the new graduates in future will be unemployed. Further, they provide some hints regarding what actions need to be taken to tackle the problems.

 

[womp]

in all honesty, this is for any job atm. Even ppl in med school are worried about this same situation, but they have more to lose imho because they have to specialize after they finish med school or they are looking at competing with other roles who can do the same labor, but cheaper.

Uh no. Primary care physicians right now get 15 emails a day trying to recruit them in the coastal metro areas with loan forgiveness packages. Sure there are NPs/PAs, but we have a real shortage in primary care, and NPs aren't much cheaper than the PCPs (and given the choice, who would you hire?). Primary care isn't sexy and has a lot of problems, but job security is not one of them.

The main medical fields that are suffering right now are pathology, radiology and anesthesiology. Do you know what they have in common? They are back office fields, with no patient base, easily commoditized and act essentially as cost centers. Sound familiar?

(My wife is family med doc, I'm ortho resident.)

 

[lisinopril]

Supply is way >>>>> than demand now....

 

[demihope]

Uh no. Primary care physicians right now get 15 emails a day trying to recruit them in the coastal metro areas with loan forgiveness packages. Sure there are NPs/PAs, but we have a real shortage in primary care, and NPs aren't much cheaper than the PCPs (and given the choice, who would you hire?). Primary care isn't sexy and has a lot of problems, but job security is not one of them.

The main medical fields that are suffering right now are pathology, radiology and anesthesiology. Do you know what they have in common? They are back office fields, with no patient base, easily commoditized and act essentially as cost centers. Sound familiar?

(My wife is family med doc, I'm ortho resident.)

From almost every MD I have ever worked with it seems like Family Med/General Practice is the least desirable field in medicine. I think these back office fields are more desirable therefore more competitive.

 

[womp]

From almost every MD I have ever worked with it seems like Family Med/General Practice is the least desirable field in medicine. I think these back office fields are more desirable therefore more competitive.

They may have problems, but job security isn't one of them, which was the point of my original comment. You will have no trouble finding an FM job in any city in America.

Most MDs don't know what other specialties are like once they are in their track, and often go by hearsay and perceptions while they were deciding on a field. I know family medicine is a pretty good gig because my wife is one. This country actually needs more PCPs, not more radiologists. Just look at the VA scandal lately. Radiology had 81 unfilled spots in the match this year, so clearly people are noticing and its desirability is tanking.

 

[THE MTL]

Let me introduce my background before writing about the pharmacy career. I am a working clinical pharmacist at a hospital. I started pharmacy school in 2000. I graduated my Pharm.D in 2004 and it's been a big change in this profession since the day I started working as a pharmacist. I have been working in both community (retails) and hospital settings, as well as teaching/preceptoring students over the years. Here is the reality:

1. Nobody will ever call/address you as "Dr" even though you earn the tittle and the degree (Pharm.D)
2. Expect to be yelled/screamed at by a lowlife drug seekers, old farts (if you work in retail), and by nurses (if you work in hospital).
3. Expect to be looked down by MDs/PAs ("what do you know? Just fill my script and don't call me every 5 mins for a stupid drug interaction! "click*)
4. Expect to be disgraced by stupid people who you try to save their lives when the doc wrote a prescription with 100 times dosage higher than the legit dosage.
5. Expect "Why my medication takes so long to fill?" everyday, every hour, everytime
6. Expect to get robbed.
7. Expect to ring up tampon, milk, cheese, etc...

I am here to give a cold reality of future job market:

1. Currently supersarturated in most areas.
2. Pharmacy schools cranks up 12,000 new grads every year now...and projects to shoot up 16,000 per year....Meanwhile jobs are shrinking and cannot keep up with number of new grads. Do the math and you will see #grads>#jobs.

Read this :http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687123/ (" A looming joblessness crisis for new pharmacy graduates").
3. A lot of applications for 1 job. I've seen one part time openning at my friend's place and he, as a director, reviewed 35 applications.
4. Pharmacy school tuition keeps rising up. Bet on unemployed with heavy student debt.
5. Call around your local area and pretend you are a pharmacist looking for work...see how they answer. If they give u a general answer like this "Please contact district manager at XXX-XXX-XXXX" then you know there is no job.
6. Don't rely on jobs posting online. Those are already filled/gone before being posted. Posting online is just a form to show equalness in labor act. In reality, those jobs have already been reserved by others.

I am here to inform you a cold reality of down trending in terms of respect. Everything here is the truth.

1. Pharmacists are no longer respected by other healthcare professionals as before since they are aware of the super saturation in our profession.
2. Most people don't know it takes 7-8 years to become pharmacists. When you tell them about it, they usually ask, "Why does it take so long to be able to count pills?"
3. In hospital settings, pharmacists are far inferior to mid level practitioners (NP,PA). Usually RNs feel inferior to PA, NP, MD, but not to PharmD. (In fact, RNs , even LVN and CNA yell at pharmacists are relatively common).
4. PA/NP get free lunches/dinners at hospital everyday and pharmacists have to pay. PA/NP don't have to wait in line to get food. They get served before the pharmacists or anyone else.
5. PA/NP can park at "DOCTOR PARKING ONLY" spots in a hospital vs pharmacists have to fight parking with EVS workers.
***PA/NP often get called "DR" from idiotic food server , such as "What you like to eat today, Doctor?" .
6. EVS (clean up people) don't even respect pharmacists.

I am here to give a cold reality of the so called "Obamacare"

With the Obamacare, people commonly think there will be a massive amount of prescription drugs to be filled....Yes, this is a very possible projection. However, with technology and with the number of influx of new graduates, this increase amount of Rx number won't help much.

Why pharmacy schools open left and right? Because it's a lucrative business. Think about it...A pharmacy class usually has 100 students (it can be more or less...but let's say average is 100). Average tuition for pharmacy per year is around 40K (could be more or less at some schools...but let's just be happy with this average). 40K x100 = 4 millions/year. A pharmacy school has at least 3 classes (p1, p2, p3). So every year, the school has an income of 4x3 = 12 millions/year. That's a SWEET income. This is why schools are open left and right. They don't care if students can get job or not in future!!!!! Just get their money first....

Students are so naive to get into pharmacy schools with the hope of landing a 6 figure income...without knowing that they won't be able to find jobs (OR at least scramble to find one) after graduation. Most students have no clue what they get themselves into.

If I am a student at this moment, I will not pursue a career in pharmacy. I'm too late for this. The risk is way heavier than the reward. I would likely consider some other alternatives.

Just my 2 cents....I am not receiving any money or any kind of compensation to write this. However, I just want to warn pre-pharm students ahead so that they can have a better understanding of what they get themselves into. The real picture is a lot uglier than most people think. You don't have to believe in what I said above....DO your own dd research. Want more proof? Here are some links:

1. http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/pharmacist/is-there-shortage-jobs-pharmacists/t302705
2. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/cant-find-a-job.896092/
3. http://www.post-gazette.com/local/r...rning-out-too-many-grads/stories/201310270094
4. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/omg-finding-a-pharmacy-job.967563/
5. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/omg-finding-a-pharmacy-job.967563/
6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3748292/
7. http://www.pharmacytimes.com/blogs/...rsupply-and-Lessons-From-the-Legal-Profession
8. http://www.marketplace.org/topics/life/overdose-pharmacy-students
9. http://exclusive.multibriefs.com/content/is-pharmacy-a-smart-career-choice/pharmaceutical
10. http://www.pharmacypracticenews.com/ViewArticle.aspx?d=Operations & Management&d_id=53&i=October 2013&i_id=1006&a_id=24255

Want more? Just google "too many pharmacists" keyword in GOOGLE box. You'll hit at least 2 million hits...

I'm NOT wasting my time responding to this foolishness. That is NOT the reality of pharmacy. It is your reality. While some of your points are valid....you didnt list ONE single positive, which shows that you are bias. Speak for yourself next time before you want to say anything about my profession as whole! And I seriously mean that.

Seriously, the profession of pharmacy sucks cause we dont get free lunches, or reserved parking spaces! And the clean up crew thinks they are better than us. Lets not forget I might have to ring up some cheese with the prescriptions. Is this a freaking joke?

New grads if you want REAL UNBIAS answers, please inbox me. I am someone who graduated this year.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Students DONT listen t


I'm NOT wasting my time responding to this foolishness. That is NOT the reality of pharmacy. It is your reality.

New grads if you want REAL UNBIAS answers, please inbox me. I am someone who graduated this year.

I mean seriously, the profession of pharmacy sucks cause we dont get free lunches or reserved parking spaces! And the clean up crew thinks they are better than us. Is this a freaking joke?

You aren't biased by your own experiences?

 

[THE MTL]

You aren't biased by your own experiences?

You missed my point. I was referring to the overall negativity of the poster. If you want to speak on reality you must have both sides told. Good and Bad. not just bad and worse

 

[lisinopril]

You missed my point. I was referring to the overall negativity of the poster. If you want to speak on reality you must have both sides told. Good and Bad. not just bad and worse

I just updated the list of advantages/pro of being a pharmacist. I was gonna list "job security" and "high pay" in there too...but I soon realize these two things are no longer valid in pharmacy profession.

 

[houston068]

So in the past week, 2 different Pharmacists dropped by the pharmacy seeking employment. Out of curiosity -- I struck up a convo with one. He was recently laid off by Express Scripts & has been desperately trying to land a job for over a month now. The company decided to shutdown 2 facilities out here in Dallas, TX. [~148 Pharmacists left w/out jobs.]

Had to share since I've been dwelling on this....

 

[buttfrogs]

1. Nobody will ever call/address you as "Dr" even though you earn the tittle and the degree (Pharm.D)

Wouldn't this be pretty confusing in a hospital though? In a clinical setting, "doctor" is used to mean "physician" (MD/DO), not "person with a doctoral degree". I've never heard of a physical therapist or DNP being called "doctor" in a hospital either.

 

[KidPharmD]

Just was going to offer some counterpoints.

1. On the first day my students call me Dr., after which I immediately tell them not to. It's my choice, and it would be confusing if anyone else call me Dr. in the hospital. A few people do call the pharmacists "doc."
2. When I worked retail, I was yelled at but took it in stride, I was also regularly brought brownies by a lady whose life I probably saved by noticing an interaction that the computer did not catch. I was only yelled at once by a nurse who accused me of not caring for my patients. Once we were slower I took her the drug myself (wasn't urgent at all) and calmly explained life at our hospital. I then proceded to go see the patient in question, who hugged me on site. The nurse and I are good friends now, and she is one of our best new grad hires.
3. I have a great relationship with many of our physicians (residents and attendings). Some of them have my cell phone number because they know I am willing to help.
4. Ringing up milk and bread and cheese is a great time to offer advice, counsel, or build report with your patients.
5. Our PA's and NP's eat with us in the cafeteria. As do the residents and fellows. Only the attendings eat in the medical staff lunchroom.
6. I regularly park next to both the medical director of our ICU and the medical residency director. I believe our only inpatient physicians with parking spaces are the ED docs.
7. Our EVS people are great and a lot of fun when they come into the pharmacy. They are also really helpful when I need something that they can provide.

Here is my advice....
Your clinical knowledge is but one of your tools that you will use in a pharmacy career.
Much more importantly is your ability to build relationships... with doctors, residents, nurses, secretaries, lab workers, biomedical engineers, and EVS. AND YOUR PATIENTS.
The over used saying "they won't care how much you know until they know how much you care" is overused because it is true.

I would shorten it even further. "It is all about relationships."

 

[DruggieDoRight]

Just was going to offer some counterpoints.

1. On the first day my students call me Dr., after which I immediately tell them not to. It's my choice, and it would be confusing if anyone else call me Dr. in the hospital. A few people do call the pharmacists "doc."
2. When I worked retail, I was yelled at but took it in stride, I was also regularly brought brownies by a lady whose life I probably saved by noticing an interaction that the computer did not catch. I was only yelled at once by a nurse who accused me of not caring for my patients. Once we were slower I took her the drug myself (wasn't urgent at all) and calmly explained life at our hospital. I then proceded to go see the patient in question, who hugged me on site. The nurse and I are good friends now, and she is one of our best new grad hires.
3. I have a great relationship with many of our physicians (residents and attendings). Some of them have my cell phone number because they know I am willing to help.
4. Ringing up milk and bread and cheese is a great time to offer advice, counsel, or build report with your patients.
5. Our PA's and NP's eat with us in the cafeteria. As do the residents and fellows. Only the attendings eat in the medical staff lunchroom.
6. I regularly park next to both the medical director of our ICU and the medical residency director. I believe our only inpatient physicians with parking spaces are the ED docs.
7. Our EVS people are great and a lot of fun when they come into the pharmacy. They are also really helpful when I need something that they can provide.

Here is my advice....
Your clinical knowledge is but one of your tools that you will use in a pharmacy career.
Much more importantly is your ability to build relationships... with doctors, residents, nurses, secretaries, lab workers, biomedical engineers, and EVS. AND YOUR PATIENTS.
The over used saying "they won't care how much you know until they know how much you care" is overused because it is true.

I would shorten it even further. "It is all about relationships."

I think the biggest part you left out, and the reason to not become a pharmacists, is that you don't have a nice parking spot. I mean everything you listed is great, but what's the point if you can't park at the front of the hospital?!

 

[PhaseIII]

This MUST be a sticky.
No, more than that, it should be MANDATORY for every pre-pharm student to read this. Why? Because its all 100% true
How I wish something or somebody woke me up a few years ago. Like many students still right now, I was stuck in my ways and wanted to be a pharmacist. The harsh truth of what a 2014 pharmacist is a tough pill to swallow. Sad part is there is no correction in sight.

 

[oldstock]

This MUST be a sticky.
No, more than that, it should be MANDATORY for every pre-pharm student to read this. Why? Because its all 100% true
How I wish something or somebody woke me up a few years ago. Like many students still right now, I was stuck in my ways and wanted to be a pharmacist. The harsh truth of what a 2014 pharmacist is a tough pill to swallow. Sad part is there is no correction in sight.

and there are "only" 128 schools for now (on way to 131 by the end of 2014). Wait until it hit 200-300 mark. K-A-B-O-O-M !!

 

[pulathomas51]

What a terrible way to scare people who have the potential to contribute positively to society. Also, nurses and doctors call our pharmacy asking the pharmacists what to prescribe AT LEAST five times a day.

 

[lisinopril]

What a terrible way to scare people who have the potential to contribute positively to society. Also, nurses and doctors call our pharmacy asking the pharmacists what to prescribe AT LEAST five times a day.

What do you really know? So a pre-pharm have more experience in real life than a pharmacist who's been in this profession more than 8 years? hm....interesting

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

What do you really know? So a pre-pharm have more experience in real life than a pharmacist who's been in this profession more than 8 years? hm....interesting

Bro, do you not realize how many time nurses and physicians call his pharmacy!? AT LEAST 5 TIMES

 

[lisinopril]

Another new week..This should be sticky.

 

[Jibby321]

Another new week..This should be sticky.

What happened to your signature listing your armory?

 

[lisinopril]

An article back in 2013 about how saturated pharmacy is...still valid today.


http://www.post-gazette.com/local/r...rning-out-too-many-grads/stories/201310270094

 

[FarmACollegeE]

The field is ever-developing and growing. I won't lie, my own family members still think pharmacy school is "my second bachelors degree program" and laugh at any insinuation that a pharmacist knows more about meds than a GP/NP/PA/and even specialists.

It's a stigma built due to years of under-utilization and lack of integration of the pharmacist into a patient's health care regimen. Part of this is d/t pharmacists themselves.

It all comes down to YOU. Do you want to do this so you can stick your nose up and feel superior to others? Do you want to be called "Dr.So&so"? Do you want all your friends and family to see you as a braniac health-care work that demands respect?

I won't lie, when reality hit and I finally accepted health care in GENERAL ain't what you see on Grey's Anatomy or SCRUBS, I began to see the real benefit and satisfaction in this career path. I often help improve patient lives, health care regimens, and work to pin-point problems primary docs, NPs, PAs, and specialists working together couldn't figure out.

Do some patients laugh at me? Scoff at my "expertise"? Brush me off as a pill-counter? Am I disrespected by a wide array of individuals more than I ever expected? YES to all of the above. Guess what, that's called life. You can take nearly any career path and that is something you will see on a consistent basis, regardless of the letters preceding your name. However, when I can spend more time speaking with a patient, discuss their medications, or counsel on side-effects more than all of the afore-mentioned professionals combined and receive genuine thanks and gratitude for helping improve their level of care, that is enough for me. You can go home and try and tell mommy and daddy what nice things you did, they probably won't care, believe, or understand you and it doesn't matter. That's the real truth. Ask anyone who works in the field that isn't blinded by disappointment that no one calls them Mr.McSteamy on the reg and they'll tell you the same my friends.

Now, I won't sugarcoat anything here. Pharmacist professionals are increasing in number and the quality of said professionals is decreasing (acceptance rates/stats lead me to this conclusion).

When I made the decision to attend pharmacy school, I weighed a ton of variables. School/education quality, sub-field interest, cost of attendance (and loan repayment), distance, future relocation plans, realistic assessment of salary/income in various specialties of pharmacy, how I would measure up against other candidates as well as skills I feel I can offer that few others in my field cannot (cultural, social, personal, regional advantages), etc etc etc.

You also know yourself. Do you think you are someone who would make a good professional? Do you just want to get into pharmacy w/the sole purpose of impressing those around you? Just a very small selection of topics you should entertain.

My take: If you are someone who thrives in any setting, if you have the social skills or academic prowess (at least capably), and if you are flexible, you can do whatever you set out to do, pharmacy school included. Just be real with yourself.

 

[oldstock]

The field is ever-developing and growing. I won't lie, my own family members still think pharmacy school is "my second bachelors degree program" and laugh at any insinuation that a pharmacist knows more about meds than a GP/NP/PA/and even specialists.

It's a stigma built due to years of under-utilization and lack of integration of the pharmacist into a patient's health care regimen. Part of this is d/t pharmacists themselves.

It all comes down to YOU. Do you want to do this so you can stick your nose up and feel superior to others? Do you want to be called "Dr.So&so"? Do you want all your friends and family to see you as a braniac health-care work that demands respect?

I won't lie, when reality hit and I finally accepted health care in GENERAL ain't what you see on Grey's Anatomy or SCRUBS, I began to see the real benefit and satisfaction in this career path. I often help improve patient lives, health care regimens, and work to pin-point problems primary docs, NPs, PAs, and specialists working together couldn't figure out.

Do some patients laugh at me? Scoff at my "expertise"? Brush me off as a pill-counter? Am I disrespected by a wide array of individuals more than I ever expected? YES to all of the above. Guess what, that's called life. You can take nearly any career path and that is something you will see on a consistent basis, regardless of the letters preceding your name. However, when I can spend more time speaking with a patient, discuss their medications, or counsel on side-effects more than all of the afore-mentioned professionals combined and receive genuine thanks and gratitude for helping improve their level of care, that is enough for me. You can go home and try and tell mommy and daddy what nice things you did, they probably won't care, believe, or understand you and it doesn't matter. That's the real truth. Ask anyone who works in the field that isn't blinded by disappointment that no one calls them Mr.McSteamy on the reg and they'll tell you the same my friends.

Now, I won't sugarcoat anything here. Pharmacist professionals are increasing in number and the quality of said professionals is decreasing (acceptance rates/stats lead me to this conclusion).

When I made the decision to attend pharmacy school, I weighed a ton of variables. School/education quality, sub-field interest, cost of attendance (and loan repayment), distance, future relocation plans, realistic assessment of salary/income in various specialties of pharmacy, how I would measure up against other candidates as well as skills I feel I can offer that few others in my field cannot (cultural, social, personal, regional advantages), etc etc etc.

You also know yourself. Do you think you are someone who would make a good professional? Do you just want to get into pharmacy w/the sole purpose of impressing those around you? Just a very small selection of topics you should entertain.

My take: If you are someone who thrives in any setting, if you have the social skills or academic prowess (at least capably), and if you are flexible, you can do whatever you set out to do, pharmacy school included. Just be real with yourself.

I understand what you are saying here. A lot of things that the OP mentioned above, I witness with my own eyes.

But the OP has a point about schools popping up left and right. This needs to be corrected !! However I do not have much hope. Realistically, I expect 15-20 years pass before we see any correction.

 

[FarmACollegeE]

I understand what you are saying here. A lot of things that the OP mentioned above, I witness with my own eyes.

But the OP has a point about schools popping up left and right. This needs to be corrected !! However I do not have much hope. Realistically, I expect 15-20 years pass before we see any correction.

Sure, I won't deny that. I laugh at some of these schools and anyone foolish enough to attend. Prestige and perception does play a role, BUT so does your ability and performance. I would absolutely have not even considered attending 50% of the schools out there based on that alone, let alone cost, distance, education quality, etc.

And that correction your talking about is known as free-market growth and eventually regression. Not sure why this is so hard for some here to grasp. I truly question anyone who screams "STOP ALL THE PHARM MILLS" as the response to increased production of pharmacist professionals. What kind of "educated" person truly lobbies for the federal government and/or oversight committees to forcefully stop/close pharm schools? Weird...

 

[oldstock]

Sure, I won't deny that. I laugh at some of these schools and anyone foolish enough to attend. Prestige and perception does play a role, BUT so does your ability and performance. I would absolutely have not even considered attending 50% of the schools out there based on that alone, let alone cost, distance, education quality, etc.

And that correction your talking about is known as free-market growth and eventually regression. Not sure why this is so hard for some here to grasp. I truly question anyone who screams "STOP ALL THE PHARM MILLS" as the response to increased production of pharmacist professionals. What kind of "educated" person truly lobbies for the federal government and/or oversight committees to forcefully stop/close pharm schools? Weird...

I found the one sentence of yours that I put in bold weird instead !!

well, you are saying that we should let the force of free market to correct this crazy school expansion? Remember the old US of A is no free market by strict definition (e.g. we bailed out the stock market/banks just in the recent market crash, many more examples). Thus here in the US we have rules, laws, regulations to put the incentives or correct market trends to lead to where they will benefit the society as a whole. You are educated obviously and if you are smart, you should join the effort to stop this madness.

But you are laughing at this effort because you probably do not think this uncontrolled and irresponsible expansion of schools will affect you, do you ?? I agree that sitting here and screaming or complaining will not do a thing to stop it, but if we get together and be a force, this could be solved. Waiting for Mother Market to correct this situation will come with expensive and unmeasurable costs for the damages in terms of money, time and people's lives this crazy expansion of schools causes/destroys. But then again, I do not expect to see that many to stand up and take on the responsibility to do things for themselves. Most would assume the attitude that "everyone for themselves", have their heads in the sand, and think that they are better than everyone else in the field (therefore will find a job with good pay and be able to keep that job for a long time, so who cares about pharmacy as a whole or anybody else?) Now that is what I find hilarious

 

[lisinopril]

The problem is we have too many naive pre-pharm students assume that they will be able to find jobs after graduation. The truth is far beyond this. I am here to alarm people the real situation. It's their own decisions to make, not mine.

 

[JakeSill]

What about RNs looking for jobs? Isn't there a surplus of RNs? There are a lot of RN schools, most community colleges, if not all, 4 year colleges, and even Ivy leagues have nursing program. Isn't Nursing worse than Pharmacy in terms of job outlook? My friend still got a job as a nurse. This is a bad economy. People just need to network and be passionate about what they do to get the job they want. Having good grades doesn't hurt either.