The Unauthorized LizzyM Score Revision

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cactusman

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Now that the MSAR has totally moved on from the old MCAT ranges, I think we need a new LizzyM score. Converting both the user's score and the school 10-90 range doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I propose the following:

Score = MCAT + 118*GPA

118 places almost the same weighting on GPA as the old form did, and sets the maximum score to 1,000. For someone who gets a C in every class and a 472 on the MCAT, the score would be a 708, so it does push all scores to the upper end of the range.

Of course, there's the option to instead divide the MCAT and add it to the original GPA value, but the decimals could get annoying. This keeps it pretty simple.
Critiques? Does this actually already exist, just not in wide circulation?

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one of the best parts of LizzyM was that you could do it in 2 seconds, I have no idea what 3.X*118 is
 
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I think the main advantage of the LizzyM score is that it's extremely easy to calculate and compare, so it's useful as a quick reference point. The more complicated we make it, the less useful it becomes. This is one instance where simplicity trumps accuracy, though of course both are necessary to some extent.
 
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one of the best parts of LizzyM was that you could do it in 2 seconds, I have no idea what 3.X*118 is
Agreed, the equation is short but still significantly more annoying.
At this point, MCAT conversion time makes the classic LM less practical as well. Let's see if we can't hash out a quick and easy equation for this.
 
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Alright I immediately see a massive issue with this

Your GPA going down by 0.1 is not equivalent to a 12 point gain on your MCAT

The whole point of the LizzyM was to help figure out how many points above/below one could compensate for the other.
 
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Alright I immediately see a massive issue with this

Your GPA going down by 0.1 is not equivalent to a 12 point gain on your MCAT

The whole point of the LizzyM was to help figure out how many points above/below one could compensate for the other.
I suppose that would be a slight problem :laugh:. I may have rushed this a bit (only to find out the same discussion had already started 15 minutes earlier).
 
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I've sat around thinking on this for a while and made zero progress. I'm becoming convinced a quick heuristic of the same usefulness just doesn't exist with the new 56-point scale. The new shorthand probably needs to become dual listing GPA/MCAT.
 
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I've sat around thinking on this for a while and made zero progress. I'm becoming convinced a quick heuristic of the same usefulness just doesn't exist with the new 56-point scale. The new shorthand probably needs to become dual listing GPA/MCAT.
Idea: Petition the AAMC to completely redesign the current scoring system to reduce back to a 45-point system.
 
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And make them get rid of the stupid Psych section too right?
Starting next year I'll probably be going to a school, that requires 2 social science courses to graduate, so we can keep that.

Also, I guess it would more accurately be a 37-point scale on the old one, right? Minimum 8 I think? I just forget since the minimum wasn't so high.
 
Starting next year I'll probably be going to a school, that requires 2 social science courses to graduate, so we can keep that.

Also, I guess it would more accurately be a 37-point scale on the old one, right? Minimum 8 I think? I just forget since the minimum wasn't so high.
range 3-45
 
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Psych section isn't going anywhere. It's a good predictors of some med school coursework.

True that... AAMC's early research for the new MCAT indicated that people who did better on the psych section performed better in neuroscience and psychology related medical school classes.
 
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But psychology and sociology are easy subjects! Everyone gets a 130+!
Lol
 
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Given the changes to the MCAT, I don't think there is a real role for a new LizzyM score going forward. While the original purpose of the LizzyM score was to see if you were a numerically competitive applicant for any given school. Its brilliance was in its simplicity and applicability.

However, now, the LizzyM score is, from my observations, most commonly used in school specific discussion threads when people are applying / getting interviews / receiving acceptances. It isn't really used to gauge competitiveness for schools because more nuances in the application process have become more widely embraced, such as the 10th-90th percentile ranges, the breakdown in equivalency of MCAT and GPA in applicants with disparate numbers at opposite ends of the spectrum (or even in normal applicants), and the fact that individual school GPAs and MCATs are more readily available and known. Using these allows applicants to construct a highly individualized list that maximizes their chance of success without relying on a heuristic to gauge initial numerical competitiveness.

Especially given the fact that the old to new conversion is complicated and a percentile comparison may not be totally valid (let's see the new MSAR and compare old and new values), it's now much easier to know your stats (let's say 3.8 514) and compare them to the stats for any given school (for example, Princeton Medical School 3.85 518) and see if you're generally in range, rather than trying to compute your own LizzyM score, computing the school's LizzyM score, and then comparing them, which not only reduces the amount of information you're working with, but also requires unnecessary calculation.

I think as a community, we've evolved enough to not need to rely on the LizzyM score as much as we did 5 years ago. To help illustrate this point, let's say a school was 3.7/35 and JonnyDoctor2be had a 3.8/34. Well, both the LizzyM scores were 72s, so JonnyD2B is pretty happy because he's found out he's probably competitive from a statistical standpoint. However, what if Jonny instead had a 3.3/39 - his LizzyM score is still 72, but he's probably no longer a competitive applicant (or at least not an equivalently competitive applicant to a 3.7/35 or 3.8/34). However, most applicants on SDN can figure both of these things out themselves or gently be pointed in the right direction without using the LizzyM score as the explanation.

So now unfortunately, I think the time of the LizzyM score has passed, and there isn't an easy new way of constructing it. The original score required 2 extremely easy calculations: a multiplication by 10 and an addition. That's it and you're done. There is no equivalent with the same elegant simplicity for the new MCAT. And we don't need one. Creating a scoring system for the sole purpose of creating a scoring system isn't a worthwhile endeavor, and the ease of merely comparing an applicant's MCAT and GPA to a school's MCAT and GPA WITH the dimensionality of the data preserved trumps a one dimensional score that isn't easy to calculate and therefore serves no utility for an applicant.

Just my thoughts. The @LizzyM score was quite possibly the greatest tool introduced into the SDN community, but it's utility is now tempered by changes in the system and now it may be time for it to be retired.
 
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But psychology and sociology are easy subjects! Everyone gets a 130+!

Lmao this was my worst section by far. Judging by the MSAR I'm an outlier on that.

Edit: Wedgedawg came out with a fantastic reply while I was typing this out. Can't say I disagree with him!
 
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how about a simple (MCAT-483)+(GPA * 10)

The beauty of the LizzyM in addition to the simplicity was the equal weighting given to MCAT and GPA , you could potentially introduce a weighting factor by changing the 483 number to accurately reflect the added importance of the mcat since we all know not all same numerical lizzyMs are created equal. I understand that this may introduce some issues with percentile cross over since 1 point does not reflect the same percentile and the higher end of the scale can be differentiated better due to the new scoring system.

This would also mean a shift in our understanding/ anchoring points of lizzyM where we consider 63 the new matriculant median vs 68
 
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I disagree with calls to retire the LizzyM score. The concept and the simplicity are maintained for any MCAT scale the AAMC proposes. Only the guidelines slightly change but the idea of the heuristic is maintained.

When the LizzyM score was introduced, it took a while for the community to get used to its wonders. The same is true for any variations made and also true if we retain the LizzyM score in its original form and use percentile conversions.

The AAMC isn't going to make the LizzyM score outdated and useless.
 
In addition, the proposed alternatives are fun but miss the point of simplicity and convenience of the heuristic. A suggested metric is simply score = 10 * GPA + (MCAT - 480), with the following guidelines

Old 76 (i.e. 3.8/38 or 3.9/37) is new 80. This is generally the number to shoot for for top schools.

Old 73 (i.e. 3.8/35 or 3.9/34) is new 75. This is generally a good number for mid tiers while possibly being competitive for some top tiers.

Old 70 (i.e. 3.7/33 or 3.9/31) is new 70. This is generally where a "competitive" applicant for med school falls around.

Old 67 (i.e. 3.6/31 or 3.7/30) is new 65. This is around the accepted applicant median.

Old 65 (i.e. 3.6/29 or 3.7/28) is new 60. This is highly competitive for DOs and marginal for MD.

I have yet to see a criticism of this approach so I'm curious to know what it is.
 
In addition, the proposed alternatives are fun but miss the point of simplicity and convenience of the heuristic. A suggested metric is simply score = 10 * GPA + (MCAT - 480), with the following guidelines

Old 76 (i.e. 3.8/38 or 3.9/37) is new 80. This is generally the number to shoot for for top schools.

Old 73 (i.e. 3.8/35 or 3.9/34) is new 75. This is generally a good number for mid tiers while possibly being competitive for some top tiers.

Old 70 (i.e. 3.7/33 or 3.9/31) is new 70. This is generally where a "competitive" applicant for med school falls around.

Old 67 (i.e. 3.6/31 or 3.7/30) is new 65. This is around the accepted applicant median.

Old 65 (i.e. 3.6/29 or 3.7/28) is new 60. This is highly competitive for DOs and marginal for MD.

I have yet to see a criticism of this approach so I'm curious to know what it is.
the only downside is mentally resetting the anchoring points as it will take a cycle or two to get normalized. And difficulty analyzing long term trends.
 
the only downside is mentally resetting the anchoring points as it will take a cycle or two to get normalized. And difficulty analyzing long term trends.

Right so we use the LizzyM score in its original form for the interim cycles. The anchor points can be adjusted once we get a better idea
 
Right so we use the LizzyM score in its original form for the interim cycles. The anchor points can be adjusted once we get a better idea
We could also call it something like lizzyM3 to differentiate it from the first version. M3 because it brings up images of fast cars.
 
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