Well I would definitely say that I know myself. I've only been able to go to college because of the government assistance of the Pell Grant because my family really is poor. In May of 2013 I will graduate from college with honors and apply to medical school; I would consider myself successful and not a member of the middle class.
lol. I don't think mistrust of white doctors is a good way to put it though. I think it's more like, who are you more likely to be buddies with? Who could you think of as advising you as a friend rather than as a superior? You're right about it being overblown though. My pediatrician was indian and I never thought about it in a negative manner.
I'm sure there are a number of them. I'm thankful for programs like the Pell grant (I also got that, you don't exactly have to be no toys for christmas broke to get it) that allow people who are intelligent to have access to the programs that they deserve. My experience has been that myself and the other successful black students at my university are not the ghetto ones. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying they are the exception not the rule. All the more reason to feel pride in your accomplishments if you ask me. Most people DON'T do you what did.
Up until about 13-14, my parents were legitimately poor. I wouldn't consider myself ghetto but I do have stereotypical black tendencies (listen to loud music, lazy, have tattoos, love chicken [white people really do love chicken as much as black people, may I add]). While I didn't grow up in a well off family, my entire success is because of my mother's amazing ability to stress the importance of education. Sadly, education is not seen as important in many African-American families and communities (I'm sure the same is true for Hispanics as well), and that is because of the society that America implemented towards minorities. When you spend your entire life simply trying to survive, it's hard to focus on your education.
are you saying you don't think he achieved it by himself...no, his success was because of the groups who made sure he could study at the right universities and not be discriminated against? Dude, I don't even consider that in the equation..that's not really the point I'm trying to make. Okay, let me make a disclaimer. In a normal, free society, everyone has equal opportunity.
Actually, yes, lol. Carson did achieve what he achieved because of his brilliant mind. Actually, he attributes his great success because of his "normal" brain. He earned the grades. he earned the scholarships, and he earned his spot at Hopkins. Of course when it gets higher up and more specialized, one can use a little luck, but in principle, Carson did it all because he was hungry and realized he could change his environment.
you mad, brah?
bored so i will give a shot
Originally Posted by Freesia88 and Modified by tn4596
But then how many black/hispanic/native american students even get the chance to have their choices come down to where it would be cheaper to go?
1.They can if they put in the same efforts asian students did. srsly, that is all there is to it, whether a person is willing to put in the effort or not.
Remember that AA and its derivatives were designed mainly to give a chance to people who were intentionally barred from opportunity by others because of their race. How is it now that people are getting upset becasue it gives opportunity to those people because of their race? What am i missing here guys?
2. Because AA by itself is a flaw concept of reverse discrimination.
And let's not forget that Miss Fisher had the opportunity to participate in Texas's race blind selection process but missed it because she was not in the top 10% of her class. Of the 7 factors considered in the holistic approach I wonder why she focused on the race factor alone. They took her spot?
3. The top 10% rule is deeply flawed. The rule, desgined to get more Hispanic and Black students, effectively taking away the importance of the SAT so that students in lower income area can attend their top choices of college. This place heavy burden on students at a well-funded public school who had to compete with overachieving peers. Why did she focused on races? well quite simply, when you see another student at the same school with lower class rank and lower SAT score than you get in, and that person is Hispanic/Black while you are outright rejected...what do you think the deciding factor is?
Lets talk about equal chances...why is it that black/hispanic/native american students who get admitted to college and post grad institutions tend to drop out more? Likely because they were not adequately prepared for those kinds of academic environments by the education they received at levels at or below high school. And why were they not adequately prepared ? Likely becasue they were educated in a piss poor school system with none of the resources that that more economically viable whites and asians have access to. And why are they more likely to be educated within such poor conditions in the first place? We could trace this back to Kunta Kinte, Sacagawea and [Insert hispanic historical figure here]. This is not in any way meant to belittle the struggles that Asians have had to face in the US but honestly if you as an Asian immmigrant feel that you have the kinds of issues and face the kinds of challenges that blacks and native americans and hispanics historically and currently face in this country. You need a class in American history and not the Pocahontas version either.
4. This is just a theory. You might be able to make a case for black and native american oppression causing regression in eucation values. But hispanics immigrants face the same challenges as asian immigrants. other theory include genetic, cultural, personal attributes, values, environment.... ect.
So you want equal opportunity for all? How about investing into programs that ensure that at the very basic level, nomatter what economic situation a child faces at home, he has access to the best possible educational foundation? How about ensuring that by the time it comes to college and post grad institutions, all these students have had access to similar resources and the opportunity to develop whatever potential they have. Then you can say that such and such a person does not deserve to be admitted because they had the same things as we did and did not make the best of it.
5 You must live in a perfect world 😀
sound like socialism to me, rich people will always have more resources to develop more potential than poor people. now you can either overcome that unequalities through sheer effort or god-given intelligence or step back and enjoy the show.
bored so i will give a shot
1231. Hmmm...schools in the heart of the black south and native american reservations give away ipads... And all these students know how to use the internet as a resource for education and self improvement. The differences are also negligible... I am not sure what version of these united states you live in buddy but it sure ain't mine.
they are doing it to replace textbooks. (i think a deposit is needed) for computers currently you can get a small dell laptop for 100 dollars if you sign up.
2. Do you even know what aa is? What it's goals are? Because reading that statement i get the distinct impression that you do not.
why dont you tell me your version of aa?
3. My point is that i find it amusing and ironic that a society (and a group of people) who perpetuated systematic discrimination for hundreds of years now bitch and whine when the tables are turned on them. At least this form of "discrimination" is not designed to crush human beings under the weight of despair and hopelessness.. Aa is not perfect but until a way is found to make it more effective or replace it with something that addresses the complexities of the case, it is what we have.
exactly, aa is not perfect. You know what is? No aa
4.ii suppose the scotus is a local court too, seeing as they have been dragged into this after the case was knocked down by pretty much all the local courts it went to.
huh?
5. Actually ms. Fisher was not part of the top 10%. And just out of curiosity, who do you think constitute most of that top 10%?
who do i think? I "know" top 10% is mostly asian and white. Even at lower income schools in my neighborhood, top 10% is largely asian immigrants. The disparity is large, these kids live in the same neighborhood, same school, same teachers...
6. Oh but it is! Do your research into the fisher case and you will see that of those not automatically selected by being in the top 10% other factors including ps's counted.
to the original question: Why out of 7 factors, race is the one being disputed. The main point is that race is the only unfair factor out of the 7. Fisher might have been rejected because of her ps, who know, but the fact that her race were also considered make this a case.
7. But then which races again are more likely to be disadvantages socioeconomically?
if they make it a socioeconomic system, then we wouldnt be having this convo. Just because a race is more likely to be disadvantage economically doesnt mean that we are going to assume that every person of that race is disadvantage and give them special treatments.
8. Some levels of ignorance are just not worth responding to
lol i am ignorant? Maybe you should read your own words belittling asian immigrants.
9. Well we might as well revert to the natural state of things then. Survival of the fittest in every aspect of life. Any man for himself.
Government definitely cannot fix everything (and if you want to have that discussion i will be glad to accommodate you) but government can and should facilitate and play the role or arbiter to ensure that those who do not have..especially when their circumstances were engineered by powers beyond them, can have a fighting chance.
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding as to what it really takes to become a successful person. Motivation is a key factor but motivation without opportunity and the right environment can motivate for as long as it wants and it will go no where... Disagree?
Let's leave the us for a bit.... Lets go to africa!!!
Hundreds of thousands of motivated young africans who graduate with top honors from college and high school end up as hawkers on the streets. Were they motivated to be educated yep. Did their parents encourage them? Are they raised in the proper environment to foster success? In most cases yes... To have gone that far in education. Do they have opportunity to do better than hawking tawdry chinese-made trinkets? Nope.i guess you could say the ones smart enough to scam stupid westerners out of millions of dollars found an opportunity to use their education to their benefit.
How about the millions of other african children who do not go to school? Are they motivated? Do they want to learn? Do they want to be successful? You have no idea how much. But grow up listening to your parents telling you that you are the son of a palm wine tapper and you are destined to be a palm wine tapper in turn, couple that with poorly funded schools and zero opportunity and what do you have:
Motivation - (proper environment + opportunity ) = no dice.
you could only put this and i would get your point instead of writing all those paragraph. Us are not like africa lol, that comparison is pretty far fetched. As a student from a low income family, there are plenty of programs and oportunities to help you succeed. There are a few area where it is downright slums and there are absolutely no oportunities, but this is also a very small percentage. As i have said, if you care about your kids, you would not live there.
why are poor asians more likely to succeed than other poor minorities? Likely because not only do they have the motivation and proper environment, opportunities have been presented to them...some of which are guaranteed by the oft maligned affirmative action act. But then, lets look at african american and native american and even hispanic communities... Why is there so little motivation? Well...your parents and their parents and their parents going back again to harriet tubman, sacagawea and co. Have been fed steady diets of you're nothing but a stupid ******, indian, wetback, beaner. They have been barred overtly from opportunity, proper environment and every bit of motivation crushed out of them..for generations...suddenly they are supposed to see the light? That takes a toll, whether you like it or not.
what percentage of parents say those things to their kids? Should we assume that those parents all belong to a particular group/races and then give special treatment to everyone belonging to those races because of that percentage?
asians were viewed in derogatory terms too in the us you argue, how is it that they are nolonger? Might it have something to do with the fact that china, india and many asian countries are becoming powerhouses in their own right? Could that be a positive reinforcement cycle right there? Could it be a cultural thing? What culture do african americans and native americans and even hispanics have to draw inspiration from?
lol sound like a blame game. If you are lazy and didnt take advantage of your oportunities, all you have to blame is yourself, not your homeland/culture.
this whole issue cuts across so many aspects of life... I don't even know why we thing making things "equal" at the level of tertiary education will have any effect.
