These extracurriculars solid for getting into Harvard level schools?

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shindotp

shindotp

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I'm planning on taking EMT courses next year and getting EMT-B certified. At Princeton, they have a program where you can do an 8 hour shift once a week if you're an EMT. I was thinking I'd do 3 years of that (Sophomore to Senior year).

I'm also planning on focusing on research, starting my second semester freshman year through my senior year. Hopefully I'll have 1-2 publications by the time I apply to med school.

Are those two main extracurricular activities enough? Along with some doctor shadowing?

If not, I've been volunteering at a medical center since my sophomore year in high school. Should I continue volunteering throughout college (and that'll show I have like 6-7 years of volunteer work).

I haven't started college yet, but I'm predicting to have a 3.7ish GPA from Princeton, 38ish MCAT score. I'm aiming for Columbia med.

I feel really clueless as this is my first topic here.
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More importantly, how are your GPA and MCAT?

Being an EMT is unfortunately a little too common these days so often it's not seen as anything "special." You can definitely get a lot of out it in terms of skills gained, but don't do it just because you think it'll get you into Harvard.
 
I actually really want the experience and the skills associated with being an EMT.

But do you think with a high GPA/MCAT (like Harvard's or Columbia's average) and those EC's, I have a good shot?
 
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3.7+ at Princeton is not exactly easy. People talk about grade inflation, but you have to think about the competition you're facing. The kid sitting next to you in PChem your freshman year probably took DiffEq at UChicago as a junior in high school. I **** you not... this happened to me.

38 is extremely difficult. That is in the 98.4-99.0 percentile of a self-selecting group.

You're a Princeton kid, though, so you're pretty smart. Don't get lazy, work your butt off, and don't forget to have some fun. Of HYP, Princeton probably has the cutest girls.

Well, I can tell you that Dean Frantz seems to like you guys. Maybe not as much as people from two random little schools in New England, but you guys do pretty alright.

Blade28 said:
More importantly, how are your GPA and MCAT?

Being an EMT is unfortunately a little too common these days so often it's not seen as anything "special." You can definitely get a lot of out it in terms of skills gained, but don't do it just because you think it'll get you into Harvard.
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Blade, he's not starting college until the fall.
 
shindotp said:
I'm planning on taking EMT courses next year and getting EMT-B certified. At Princeton, they have a program where you can do an 8 hour shift once a week if you're an EMT. I was thinking I'd do 3 years of that (Sophomore to Senior year).

I'm also planning on focusing on research, starting my second semester freshman year through my senior year. Hopefully I'll have 1-2 publications by the time I apply to med school.

Are those two main extracurricular activities enough? Along with some doctor shadowing?

If not, I've been volunteering at a medical center since my sophomore year in high school. Should I continue volunteering throughout college (and that'll show I have like 6-7 years of volunteer work).

I haven't started college yet, but I'm predicting to have a 3.7ish GPA from Princeton, 38ish MCAT score. I'm aiming for Columbia med.

I feel really clueless as this is my first topic here.
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This thread is really funny to me... :laugh:
 
shindotp said:
I actually really want the experience and the skills associated with being an EMT.

But do you think with a high GPA/MCAT (like Harvard's or Columbia's average) and those EC's, I have a good shot?
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You should look up the averages FROM PRINCETON attending those schools.

The PreMed office should have the numbers.
 
I would encourage you to not be a tool and do things just because they will make you a good medical school applicant. Do stuff you like... seriously. I started out doing a bunch of "boy I'll do this so I get into medical school" stuff, and I soon realized that I hated it and that having a good college experience was much more important as long as I showed a genuine interest in science. The great thing about it was that I was able to talk passionately about every one of my extracurriculars because I sincerely liked doing them. Good luck though OP.

EDIT: How does one "predict" a 38 on the MCAT... that's like the 98th percentile?
 
Do those things actually INTEREST you? You'd be digging yourself a deep hole if you got your EMT license for your application. I have posted all over SDN about this. It's a waste of money for something that will be marginally effective, at best. Probably much less than you think. You'll understand more about extracurriculars when you start undergrad, but you're doing yourself a disservice if you participate in things that don't interest you at all, just for your application.

And also, there are no magic extracurriculars that will get you into "Harvard level schools". GPA and MCAT come WAY before extracurriculars. The admissions committee won't even see what EC's you did if your GPA and MCAT are not "harvard level".
 
Lol, thanks.

And I don't see what's so funny haha. I'd rather ask "will I be good enough if I do this" than "am I good enough?". There's nothing you can do if you ask the latter.
 
OP, it's impossible to say what the future will be like. Just work hard and get back to us after you take your MCAT.
 
I'm somewhat confident my GPA and MCAT scores will be Harvard level, I'm just wondering what would actually get me in besides my stats.

Oh, and about the MCAT...

I took a practice one and I scored a 30 as a prefrosh (the AAMC.org one). It's like the SAT where if you practice a lot your score goes up right? Am I taking it as a second semester junior?
 
"It's like the SAT where if you practice a lot your score goes up right?"

I sure hope so! Otherwise you'd have to get REALLY lucky the first time!

You haven't started college yet and got a 30 diag...without having taken organic chemistry? Explain..
 
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"After medical school I'm going to marry a 5'8ish blonde nurse that is VERY attractive. We are going to move into a brick house right out side of Boston and have 4 children (3 boys and 1 girl). Each child will be separated by 2 years. They will all go to Harvard and then proceed to become doctors.

Guys I know this will happen..."

You need to get laid.
 
Grab the reins, pull back slightly, and say "Whoa!"

You can't accurately predict what your GPA and MCAT score will be three years from now. You certainly can't plan on having research pubs during undergrad before you ever set foot in the lab.

It's good to have a general idea of what you'd like to accomplish and what, at this point, you're most interested in doing after obtaining your bachelor's. It's just too early to make assumptions.

Research is good. You're going to want to try to get some under your belt if your intend to apply to med schools that value research. The exposure to the research setting also helps many students realize that the lab is NOT where they want to be. That's also a good thing. Knowing what you don't want to do is just as helpful as knowing what you enjoy.

If you can keep volunteering at the same medical center, and ENJOY IT, keep it up. The long-term commitment says a lot. Besides, if you continue the activity, it gives you the opportunity to list it on your application.

If you're interested in doing the EMT bit, go for it. Interest should always be the operative word as you choose extracurricular activities and coursework. There is a difference that shows between applicants who are enthusiastic about their activities and those who try to BS their way through.

Keep an open mind. During that first semester, you will be exposed to many opportunities. Learn what's available and get involved in one, or a few, that interest you. They don't have to be directly related to your interest in becoming a physician. Check out ways that you can contribute to activities that serve the under-served. Those big name schools aren't entirely about research. Those who have shown a proven track record of service for others are looked upon favorably at many institutions.

Involvement and activities are important, but keeping a respectably high GPA is more important than the EC's. Become accustomed to the new environment and develop an effective study routine for your courses first. Then start getting involved at a level that you can handle comfortably while maintaining that GPA.

Just take things as they come, one step at a time, and you'll be surprised at how well things can fall together.
 
UFGatorMed said:
They will all go to Harvard and then proceed to become doctors.
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You got it man. I'll be reading Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine to my children for bedtime stories. They will be surgeons whether they want to or not. The order of specialization will follow this: plastics, orthopedic, vascular, trauma, cardiothoracic, general, pediatric, neurological.
 
go to africa and deliver at least 73 babies
 
Actually I heard that the only competitive EC among Harvard applicants is leading a team of brain surgeons in performing life saving operations on severally brain damaged accident victims....kinda silly, seeing as how you probably have to be a doctor BEFORE you do that. But its Harvard, and them there applicants sure are becoming competitive
 
MichiganEMTInt said:
"It's like the SAT where if you practice a lot your score goes up right?"

I sure hope so! Otherwise you'd have to get REALLY lucky the first time!

You haven't started college yet and got a 30 diag...without having taken organic chemistry? Explain..
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I took AP Bio, Physics, Chem so I got a 12 P, 11 V, 7 B. Yeah I'm pretty sure I can go up a lot after actually taking Orgo Chem instead of relying on the chapter I studied in AP Chem haha. The physical sciences section was pretty easy for me though.
 
shindotp said:
I took AP Bio, Physics, Chem so I got a 12 P, 11 V, 7 B. Yeah I'm pretty sure I can go up a lot after actually taking Orgo Chem instead of relying on the chapter I studied in AP Chem haha. The physical sciences section was pretty easy for me though.
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Yeah since you are close to when you took Physics and Gen Chem it's understandable that you did good in Physical sciences. Your Verbal can go up with some work on it, but an 11 is quite good. Through college you will learn a lot info that will help you with the BS section. Taking the MCAT so early is unnecessary, but since you did it just step back and take in all you can in college. Have fun and know that you have the ability to succeed. Rock your classes and you will be able to do well on your MCAT. Don't worry about it.

As for ECs do things that you love. It doesn't have to do with medicine, you will learn from your experiences in ways that you can't expect. Do some volunteering and shadowing, but other than that there really isn't any prescribed way to get into the top tier schools. Also make sure that you make an impact on your professors (but not in the obnoxious overbearing pre-med) since if they really know you they will be able to write you a stellar rec. A good way to do this is to have a strong relationship with your research PI, but don't be afraid to switch research at the beginning if you don't feel that your original PI doesn't give much responsibility or trust (what I felt at my first research assistant position).
 
I dont wanna burst your bubble, but not everything might turn out the way you want them to. And umm MCAT isn't that hard straight after HS, I had a 27 on kaplan diag during fall freshman year. Then I took kaplan again during junior year and got a 19, because I forgot all the physics from HS, and all the chem/ochem from freshman year.

Also, if u are really far ahead, look into taking physics freshman year, ochem/bio sophmore year, so that you can take MCAT Spring of soph year, that should help because you won't have to spend as much time reviewing
 
shindotp said:
I haven't started college yet, but I'm predicting to have a 3.7ish GPA from Princeton, 38ish MCAT score. I'm aiming for Columbia med.
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:laugh:

This is just depressing. If you're going to troll, at least summon the vigor to do it with creativity.
 
rowerlauren said:
Yeah since you are close to when you took Physics and Gen Chem it's understandable that you did good in Physical sciences. Your Verbal can go up with some work on it, but an 11 is quite good. Through college you will learn a lot info that will help you with the BS section. Taking the MCAT so early is unnecessary, but since you did it just step back and take in all you can in college. Have fun and know that you have the ability to succeed. Rock your classes and you will be able to do well on your MCAT. Don't worry about it.

As for ECs do things that you love. It doesn't have to do with medicine, you will learn from your experiences in ways that you can't expect. Do some volunteering and shadowing, but other than that there really isn't any prescribed way to get into the top tier schools. Also make sure that you make an impact on your professors (but not in the obnoxious overbearing pre-med) since if they really know you they will be able to write you a stellar rec. A good way to do this is to have a strong relationship with your research PI, but don't be afraid to switch research at the beginning if you don't feel that your original PI doesn't give much responsibility or trust (what I felt at my first research assistant position).
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Thanks a lot for the amazingly helpful reply!
 
piss ant said:
:laugh:

This is just depressing. If you're going to troll, at least summon the vigor to do it with creativity.
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I'm not trolling. But you are. Hmm the irony.
 
Just curious, any ideas on what specialty you want to go into? What will you get on Step 1?
 
i took the MCAT straight out of HS as well and got 29, and after thousands of hours of studying it only improved 3 points, all on the BS section. Life sucks.
 
TheProwler said:
Just curious, any ideas on what specialty you want to go into? What will you get on Step 1?
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Neurology. Not sure what the scoring is like, but probably a lot higher than average. 🙂
 
HoboCommander said:
i took the MCAT straight out of HS as well and got 29, and after thousands of hours of studying it only improved 3 points, all on the BS section. Life sucks.
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Hey, 32 is a great score. Lol, life doesn't suck that much come on.
 
OP, I recommend that you save a link to this thread. Read it again three years from now. It will change the way you reply to some incoming freshman at that time.

You do not think the same way now as you did three years ago. You will not think the same way a year and a half from now. You will not be thinking the same way 7 years from now when you are finishing up your M3 year.

Each step of the way, you are going to find yourself surrounded by more people who are equal to you in both ability and determination, and more who are better prepared and better equipped than you.

Life has a way of changing people's plans and trashing assumptions. That's not a bad thing.
 
two years from now, I bet his dream would to become a rapper.
 
LOL!!! I think you guys are right actually. Now that I think about it I wanted to be an engineer just 2 years ago.
 
HumidBeing said:
Life has a way of changing people's plans and trashing assumptions. That's not a bad thing.
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This belongs on an inspirational poster.

OP, your head is about 3 years ahead of your life right now. Reel it in a bit, and focus more on the life aspect. Focus on that GPA, but just as importanty, focus on making great friends you will keep the rest of your life. Focus on finding activities that excite your passions and creativity.

In hindsight, I was much like you coming out of high school. 4 years of college later, I ended up with a 3.6 GPA, not a 3.9. A 35 on the MCAT, not a 40. ECs very unrelated to medicine, instead of EMT/Pre-med club/etc. Coming into medical school, I was set on pediatric surgery. Now I have no idea what I want to do, but at least 6 or 7 fields I can see myself practicing in. And you know what, I'm a better medical student for it.

It's not all about jumping through the hoops. It IS all about becoming your own person, a person who will make a great physician. The hoops are there for a reason, but so is the other 90% of your college experience.
 
I'd suggest an EC that's either not medically related, or just very unusual, that can make your application stand out a little. Preferably something you love doing!! College is an amazing opportunity to try new things, so join the rock climbing club or take up photography, you're bound to find something you have a passion for, even if it's competitive video gaming, lol. I think adcoms appreciate applicants who show dedication and passion in areas aside from medicine, and it also makes you a little more interesting to interview I think. The doctors who interview you have so much clinical and research background themselves, so maybe they'd enjoy an applicant who's done some neat stuff that they don't have much experience in. Just my opinion.

General hospital volunteering and research is important, no denying that, but it may or may not make your application "pop" since a lot of your peers have also shadowed and published and worked at some medically related job.

Let's see...what gets you into top schools aside from GPA/MCAT? A lot of work, a strong PS, a stand out personality, and quite a decent bit of luck 😛
Enjoy college! Who knows, you might get two years into the pre med track and decide it isn't for you.
 
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If you're interested in Harvard, I don't think you're on the best track. If you're interested in "Harvard-level" schools, which I can only assume means "name schools," you should be fine. This is why: Harvard is especially interested in people with a "hook" - some life experience that makes you stand out from the crowd. Being a hypercompetitive pre-med from Princeton doing the usual EMT/volunteering/shadowing is not going to cut it. They don't care if you've done 6 years of volunteering, because it's painfully obvious that it's all for your med school application.

You have to come across as a real person with real interests and accomplishments that weren't driven by your med school application. They like non-science majors and people who took time after college to go abroad and do something interesting (not necessarily medically related). Of course, your stats have to be way up there as well.
 
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shindotp said:
I'm somewhat confident my GPA and MCAT scores will be Harvard level, I'm just wondering what would actually get me in besides my stats.

Oh, and about the MCAT...

I took a practice one and I scored a 30 as a prefrosh (the AAMC.org one). It's like the SAT where if you practice a lot your score goes up right? Am I taking it as a second semester junior?
Click to expand...

doomknight said:
I dont wanna burst your bubble, but not everything might turn out the way you want them to. And umm MCAT isn't that hard straight after HS, I had a 27 on kaplan diag during fall freshman year. Then I took kaplan again during junior year and got a 19, because I forgot all the physics from HS, and all the chem/ochem from freshman year.

Also, if u are really far ahead, look into taking physics freshman year, ochem/bio sophmore year, so that you can take MCAT Spring of soph year, that should help because you won't have to spend as much time reviewing
Click to expand...

HoboCommander said:
i took the MCAT straight out of HS as well and got 29, and after thousands of hours of studying it only improved 3 points, all on the BS section. Life sucks.
Click to expand...

wtf. Why are people taking practice MCATs straight out of HS. Ridiculous.

I took my first practice MCAT 3.5 weeks before the big day.
 
Use that EMT experience after a couple years and do the ULITIMATE EC - save babies in Africa (and then publish about it or document it and get featured on Discovery Channel)!
 
To the OP. You may be "above average" now, but please be aware that "average" gets continually redefined as you move up.

Succeeding in a competitive high school is good, and you clearly did so if you got into a competitive university. Now you'll be surrounded by thousands of people like you that were just as competitive all throughout high school. You're going to have to out-perform them if you want to have a high GPA.

Then there's medical school. Take those hyper-competitive people from colleges all over the country and then shave off the very top and stick them in a room with each other. Again, there are no stupid people surrounding you to pull the average down. These are the same people that make up your class-rank when it comes down to residency matching and these are the same people that will be taking the USMLE.

It's one thing to be confident that you will succeed, but to not realize the level of competition at higher levels of education is arrogant.
 
shindotp said:
Neurology. Not sure what the scoring is like, but probably a lot higher than average. 🙂
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Why not pick something competitive? I mean, it seems like a shame to squander your amazing talents on anything less than plastic surgery.
 
Depakote said:
To the OP. You may be "above average" now, but please be aware that "average" gets continually redefined as you move up.

Succeeding in a competitive high school is good, and you clearly did so if you got into a competitive university. Now you'll be surrounded by thousands of people like you that were just as competitive all throughout high school. You're going to have to out-perform them if you want to have a high GPA.

Then there's medical school. Take those hyper-competitive people from colleges all over the country and then shave off the very top and stick them in a room with each other. Again, there are no stupid people surrounding you to pull the average down. These are the same people that make up your class-rank when it comes down to residency matching and these are the same people that will be taking the USMLE.

It's one thing to be confident that you will succeed, but to not realize the level of competition at higher levels of education is arrogant.
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The end result will be much better (and much more disheartening) if he just realizes this on his own.
 
You should read the story of Ben Carson. It's been a looong time since I've read his book, but he was way ahead of his peers through high school because he came from an inner-city environment but his mother pushed him to read books at the library every week. He was used to always being in the 99th percentile on everything.

One day he made some arrogant comment in front of one of his peers (was it at Yale? JHU? I can't remember), and his friend's response made him suddenly realize that everyone around him was just as smart and driven as he was.
 
Lol let the kid dream. Reality hits soon enough.
 
Salient said:
You should read the story of Ben Carson. It's been a looong time since I've read his book, but he was way ahead of his peers through high school because he came from an inner-city environment but his mother pushed him to read books at the library every week. He was used to always being in the 99th percentile on everything.

One day he made some arrogant comment in front of one of his peers (was it at Yale? JHU? I can't remember), and his friend's response made him suddenly realize that everyone around him was just as smart and driven as he was.
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Sounds like a short book...
 
Depakote said:
It's one thing to be confident that you will succeed, but to not realize the level of competition at higher levels of education is arrogant.
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Very well said. OP, you really ought to wait and see what academic life at a top university is like before telling anyone how well you expect to do.




I debated about posting to this thread. Is shindotp trolling, or is he serious? Either seems believable. On the assumption that this is for real, here's my advice:

I'd strongly suggest that you take advantage of the opportunities for exploration you're going to have in college. You think now that you want to be a doctor, and that might very well be where you end up. But a school like Princeton is going to offer you, quite literally, a world of experiences to choose from. If you focus all your energies on building a "perfect" med school application, you'll be doing yourself a real disservice.

Take a bunch of random classes, try some sports/activites/clubs you haven't been exposed to before, meet new people, study abroad, do whatever. Get some taste of what's out there. There will be way to much available for you to try everything that looks interesting, but pick a few. Then try to figure out what you want to do. If medicine is still your passion, that's great. Everything that doesn't make you look like a cookie-cutter premed robot is going to help your application, not hurt it. And if you decide you want to go in a different direction [anthropology, archiology, architecture, astronomy, ...] that you never really thought about before, that will be great too. Don't limit yourself.
 
Also don't assume that you will get a 3.8. There are several valedictorians at my schools that end up doing rather poorly since they can't find motivation or aren't used to the challenge or something else entirely.

I was lucky to actually do better in college than in high school. This is mostly because I found classes that really interested me, not just science courses but my rather random business major, etc... and did not find the time I spent working in my classes to be a pain.

You haven't yet started college. You don't know whether you will be the top in your classes. All you can do it approach college with an open mind and work hard to succeed.
 
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